"rooster, you're missing the point. if a tgp makes money by selling a sponsor with streaming media, acacia is saying you are making money off their patent because your sponsor has it."


Heres my point, Berman in his own words says the webmaster license is based on subscription revenue.

A linksite/tgp has no subscription revenue. Therefore where would they get the percentage from.

Its absurd. They seem to be saying now:


they want 2% of revenue from all the money thhat free sites make from affiliate programs.

And how are they going to determine that. Not every affiliate program has video.


I think these guys are walking a very fine line of some highly illegal tactics.

Yep shows you how desperate sex.com is for money. I liked the part where he states to the effect that buying traffic from anyone but him and his partners will result in having your merchent account pulled, LOL

Yes sir. Well said and one can only agree.

However, I think that the "knowing the law" argument held true in simpler times. Today it has reached a point where you can ask an attorney something, receive an answer, proceed according to his advice and still be found guilty. Did you not try to "know the law??"
________________________________________________
Footguy's definition of the law:

The will of the most powerful party at any given moment.
________________________________________________

As for the political parties, I am through voting. You mentioned one good reason above but there are others too. Perhaps more serious even.

Seeing that most have , in my opinion erroneously, chosen to focus on whether they have a free or pay site in this thread, I will be moving on.

Best of luck to all with this.......We are ALL going to need it.

I would also add you need an analysis from your attorney as to if linking to sponsor hosted movie galleries that you receive compensation for could be seen as inducing infringement.

Choker,

I say the hell with waiting to collect a *somewhat* defense fund and go ahead and do it. Although I agree with everyone that all of this Acacia crap sux I want someone to look into the patent legalities of linking to sites and if that means paying a lawfirm so be it. I've already stuck it out in front of 100,000 uniques a day that this is going on and that I plan on pulling all vids if Acacia does in fact own the internet. I have no plans on helping them pull this off. The money can always be refunded should it not be needed.

hummm ... from their web posted agreement ( of course --we know what acacias word is actually worth ... )

Our Webmaster license covers audio/video content that is accessed via the Webmaster?s web site, regardless of where the content is hosted. The royalty is based upon subscription revenues from the Webmaster?s pay sites, and exit traffic revenue from the Webmaster?s free sites that contain audio/video content. To review a copy of our standard Webmaster License Agreement click here. For instructions on completing the Webmaster License Agreement, click here.

kinda sounds like sex.com isn't as safe as they claim. they pay you for traffic you now have exit traffic revenue ...

ya know --that thought crossed my mind a couple times too. if you can't legislate --litigate

what if you went back to them and said: "Oh ... so sorry. exactly WHICH links in specific are you talking about, and we'll gladly remove them ...". put the burden of which links they're claiming are in violation. and of course --they'll have to check `em all too that way. ever single one ...

Choker ya got my support, and what money I can send (at least the $100, but hopefuly more).

ICQ Me 2 9 4 9 0 6 0 1 8

Fight these %$%%* :321GFY :BangBang: :ak47:

Before we go too far with this concept of suing for extortion, you all should note that the threat of a civil lawsuit is not considered to be extortion. If it was, that would basically put all attorneys out of business. When the claim is bogus, these threats can really seem unfair or illegal, but in the eyes of the law, that's what the jury is for. So maybe I just saved you a fat retainer that some lawyer would charge to tell you that.

Webattorney,

I believe most of this thread is looking for a direction to take to find legal information pertaining to linking to sites and whether any patent law can hold anyone liable for doing such. Personally, I want the best information available(paid or not) before I even answer Acacia as to their infringement letter.

Yep we are all just digging here. I think it's pretty clear that guys are willing to open thier wallets to help.

How about we simply create a membership site with a members only BBS board where others can share strategy's, court appearances (when they start) etc. To be a member you have to pony up minimum $100. When someone shows a need for money to defend themselves, they apply for it. If thier defense goes to further our cause then we approve the money. We vote on it. Every member gets a vote. However, since money is everything, the more you contribute the more votes you have. Give $100 you get one vote, give $1000 you get 10 votes. Not only would this be a true democracy based on what you contribute, it would attract donations from everyone in this business, not just TGPers. Sort of like a clearinghouse of funds for defense against this threat.

That would be bad how? :winkwink:

Hmm, KimmyKim could set us up a epassporte account to hold and distribute the funds. I could get PPK to code the scripts. There could be full accounting of all funds. Every members contribution would need to be known to the other members. I think it is important to see who is contributing and how much. Even gallery makers. This affects them also.

Lots of people can say they hate me, but none can say I have ever ripped anyone off. The same can be said for KimmyKim. We could limit the account access to her and me. When someone needs funds for defense and the group approves, then KimmyKim could expedite epassporte cutting and mailing a check for it. Of course joeblow could not come out of the blue and request money. he would have to show documentation. Phone calls with his attorney, firm court dates and strategies etc. this would all be needed before the group voted on whether to help fund his case or not. Thoughts on this anyone?

Yes it was, but I think Acacia's patents cover the digital version of streaming technology. I'm not sure how analog technology works but I don't think it compresses the audio before sending it over the intended medium. Digital technology compresses the audio/video stream, transfers it over the Internet and decompresses it at the other end. This is what Acacia's patents cover. Either way, I still think Acacia is stifling technology and entrepeneurship by having almost every single company using the Internet pay royalty fees.

Dick SHoke

I'm comfortable with this. I'd definately donate some money
under this scenario.

Cool. I think many will balk at the idea of whoever donates the most gets more votes, but if you think it thru, if acmeporn donates $2000 and later is sued should he not have higher priority in being helped by the group? Not to mention that the first guys getting sued we need to support the most as our cases will be based on thiers. What this plan would do is basically gather the funds now that we know we will need later. If IMPA has a specific need for a certain amount of money for a specific cause, and the group votes on it and approves it, they get the money for that cause.

This could be basically a defense fund for adult webmasters for any cause that the group feels threatens their business. Acacia will not be the last threat I fear.

hmmm, maybe even add a second secure BBS board by monthly subscription of say $24.95 a month with unlimited legal advice from a attorney? How many times a month does every webmaster have legal questions only a attorney can answer? Sorry for all the posts my brain is in Turbo mode at the moment.

FYI Since this isnt Adult you can use Pay pal, also I think its a great idea a pay board to ask a lawyer questions as long as he answers more than "you would have to talk me privately about that".

You will probably have a difficult time finding an attorney that will give non-generic advice on a discussion board. There are all kinds of things they have to worry about in that setting.

Aww, c'mon. You know we're a necessary evil. Nobody likes the sharks until you need to sick us on your enemy. Like they say, the only good lawyer...is YOUR lawyer! :winkwink:

Well if it was a pay board, the attorney would be getting paid for answering questions. So he would have to or we would fire him and find another one

Choker,

You are wandering from the topic here. I agree... set up the fund. But, the first set of business is to get some good legal information on linking to sites on the internet and if patents can hold everyone liable. Everyone knows that legal advice is only as good as the $$$ that are behind it. Don't even one lawyer type attempt to discredit that. I don't have one problem at all with majority donors having more voting rights. It will just give more enthusiasm to be in that group. There has to be a way to validate the donors though to make sure the oppostion is not in the group.

Are you out of the Orlando office? Would a attorney such as yourself be a part of something like this? Not asking for free advice. Paid to answer questions on a board. The amount of cases one one get as a spinoff would be in addition to part of the monthly subscription fee.

Well if we set this up, I guess the first item to be voted on would be how much money and to whom we pay to research this. But remember with a secure BBS board the members that are already doing research would have a organized format to post their findings. thing is I would think it would take the first free site being sued and the outcome about linking to sites. We could put a million bucks into researching it, but the real test would be the first site to go to court on this specific point. that is why it would be imperitve that the fund help the first guy that goes to court and uses this as a defense.

Choker.. there is a private board already in existence. ICQ me and I'll give you info.

You are starting to play IMPA. That's not what this started as. Where's your direction of cleaning the slate for yourself as I am looking to do? I disagree with the theory that the *Big Picture* is what is necessary in a situation like this. Sometimes it's best to dismantle small parts of the puzzle and disprove that they don't fit in that *Big Picture*. If you are looking to play lawyer fund for the general world by all means put your money in IMPA.

I STRONGLY disagree with you. The reason I have not donated to IMPA is because I want control of where my donations go to. The reason people do not donate to IMPA like they should is because they have no idea who is involved and where their money is going. By the repsonses I am getting in this thread, is that there are many interests and many different ways to fight ACACIA. NOT JUST THE sites that are getting funds to fight that are part of IMPA. Will IMPA fund the first free site that gets sued? Can you GUARANTEE that in writing? I'm not trying to compete with IMPA or anyone else. I want to do something here, but blindly giving money to IMPA is not a option for me. Sorry

Johnny Poker how are you? Have you heard much about what webmasters are doing out on the west coast about this. A friend of mine in Toronto told me he has recieved 3 letters. If you get that many letters, is a claim in Canada that strong of a case or just fishing. He has his attorny looking into it.

Come on guys, I need feedback on this before I get the ball rolling. I am volunterring my time on this. I need opinions before I get PPK on the coding of this. We have most of the code cores already so the expense of this will be minimal. After the initial setup costs, which will be fully disclosed BTW, any time money is spent it would have to be cleared by the group first. I really think this is the best route to go. This plan would give EVERYONE a voice in what thier money is spent on in defense of their business.

No response to my post about a board that already exists... etc. so I'm outta here.. good luck man. You can do it! :thumbsup

I'm in Canada, when I got a letter from them a few months back my attorney said that all they did was provide me with some free toilet paper :winkwink:

He couldn't find any merit for their case and it just seemed to be a scare tactic to Canadians....I haven't gotten any future letters either.

I *believe* their "intellectual property" claims are only valid in the US...I don't think it's respected internationally, even with us being on the border. I could be wrong about this...I haven't gone digging too deep and I didn't want to pay my lawyer to research too much unless I got a second letter or a notice of action =) I'd be interested as well to hear from someone who has a definate answer...

I think it's an excellent idea...I'm not really in a position of donating a great deal of funds but if you do decide to get this underway I can certainly let all the webmasters who use my programs know about it and try to draw up additional support for the cause.

I sent you a icq

Choker,

Based on the direction that you are taking I opt out. It's your cause and I will no longer intrude. I'll pursue this on my own.

Yes, I run the Orlando office of our firm. I'm certainly willing to explore some options to help. Give me a call on Monday: 407.389.4520.

Sorry to hear that, but it is not MY cause. the whole idea behind the members voting and controlling what is done and what money is spent on what is so it does not BECOME my cause or any single persons cause. What I propose could be used to assist IMPA and any other individual/group that needs help in a active ongoing court battle that the resluts of will impact the entire group. If IMPA wanted money for joeblow to defend against ACACIA claim then they could vote on it. If it impacts them hopefully they would vote yes. but if money is needed from IMPA or another person/group that does not affect the majority, IE this "Cybersex" patent thing, then most likely they would vote against it as it does not impact the average guy out here.

Great, I will call you up monday. Having you involved in any format would be a great boost to the cause. :thumbsup

A suggestion to help get people on the same page:

http://www.freeconference.com

This website offers free conference calls. You call a number that will only cost you your long distance charges..and its free to use.

This company makes its money by being a CLEC..which means calls that come into their system, the make a small percentage from the other phone companies..

It's in their best interest to have as many minutes used per month.

i have used this service before, and it works great. I am not an affliate nor have any connections to this company, other than it may help you guys coordinate things by voice, then having emails, ICQ, and posts go back and forth in a sequential manner.

One suggestion.. should you use this service, you get a PIN code to access the call... don't post that number in this forum...you might get lurkers listening in who you many not want.

Fight the Patent!

hey Jimmer ... just a thought: i remember seeing something on PBS or some shit about NAFTA and companies in one country bringing suit against the other "country" in "trade court" over business losses because of laws or regulations which "harm" or "damage" their businesses. and this court isn't a legal court. it's some kind of trade court with a "tribunal court" or something. i remember one of the cases they mentioned was a company in canada sued california because they banned MTBE and the canadian company made part or all of it. and they won ...

It's no secret I think you (choker) are a great idea man, but I do admit to a personal distaste for you.
However I would respectfully suggest you are out of your league on this one.

Out of his league with KimmyKim? I don't think so.. this is Kimmy.. I think she's well within his league:

http://www.leenoga.com/pix/kimmykim.gif

She looks like a cool chick too if you ask me :thumbsup

:glugglug choker traffic is good stuff

YOU FUCK FACE!
Get the fuck out of my nick you moron!

Hell.. why not just change your links into cut & paste text..
A few script changes and instead of links appearing, you just have a string of text for the surfers to cut & paste..

Sounds kinda silly I know, but if everyone did it, the surfer would have no choice but to go with it..

And Acacia sure's the fuck has no patent on cut & paste and you're no longer 'linking' to anyone that has video/audio..

But then they'd probably claim that plain text urls fall within their nonsense as well..

I need more coffee..

you are onto an interesting concept here choker, don't loose focus. The unlimited Q&A board can come later but I only have one question right now and thats - are our links to sponsor hosted galleries infringing on their patent?
I like the original plan much better than fragmenting it off into the bbs where a lawyer spends more time checking the board and coming up with answers to everyones questions rather that preparing for the class action suit

:2 cents:

Not to rain on the parade here, but from my experience it's always best to have your own attorney handle your own legal matters. As you can see above, you already have dissension issues and the thing hasn't even been formed.

Group representation can be extremely difficult to coordinate in a case like this where you have individuals grouping together from different states and different countries where there may be different legal statutes that are applicable unique to one party and not the others as a whole.

Its not a bad idea that choker came up with, but from the standpoint of maximizing your individual cases, you should also still consult with your own attorney.

Keep in mind also there are bad attorneys, good attorneys, and incredible attorneys that can make things happen to benefit you legally despite whatever laws are at issue. Those are typically the high priced ones that have judicial connections, solid networking with other major law firms, and just basically have the magic touch that can leave you wondering, how'd he pull that off for me.

Also, the law is all about interpretation. Keep that in mind always. One attorney will tell you one thing, and another will tell you something else in his opinion. You can have a dozen attorneys in a room looking at a case and they can all have different approaches, different angles to winning the case, different interpretations. There's rarely a right answer in the field of law. That's why a great lawyer is one who can take laws and skillfully twist and bend them in your favor without breaking them.

Choker, this is exactly the point I was trying to make, this is a first ammendment attorney. Although I'm sure he's an expert in his own field, he admittedly - early in this thread- said you should find another set of attorneys to represent this case.
A patent attorney is in order here, not a first ammendment guy. Why spend collective monies on it if its not whats needed to combat the original plan?
Perhaps if he were part of the seperate idea of the Q&A but not for the patent infringement arguement.

But a more important point...

If a tgp is sending surfers to a video/audio site that has paid Acacia's license fee, then the transmission of video/audio from that site is with permission from Acacia.
To charge a fee to the tgp for linking to that site, where the license fee for transmitting has already been paid, then Acacia is charging twice for the same video source. This is double dipping.. and the courts frown on that..
And this is looking at just 1 tgp.. Think about the thousands of tgp's that would be paying for something that has already been paid for..

If an attorney does decide to participate.. for them to give you direct answers, every member of that board would be considered clients (by paying the fee) and be under client-attorney privileges.

Sounds risky to me for an attorney to put themselves into that position.. many have tried this approach in mainstream..maybe they failed because they didn't have the traffic or a hot topic like Acacia.

Better yet, become a member of IMPA.. as an association, that should be the ones that could answer your questions.

If you want non-legal answers to your questions, I just posted the thread FTP's Acacia FAQ.. .share your question with others:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=190214



Fight the Patent!

Everything he said :thumbsup


Fight the Patent!