Choker,

Like many of the other TGP owners I am not amused at this letter sent by Acacia and I'll gladly donate to see what legality there is to their claim. But, I would think this needs to move extremely fast to give everyone their options before November 30th. Obviously, we are not all in the same boat as some have links to links with vids and some do not. And in my case there's actually a bigger twist to it that I won't go into.


I don't ICQ, but you can e-mail me.

Sorry: Fish & Richardson; www.fr.com

awesome idea choker, put me on the list and I'm willing to donate if I get my letter from ACACIA wich I didn'T receive yet. I'm in canada will this association protect me still?

I dont have a TGP... can I set one up and join? :winkwink:

Yes, we are talking days to throw this together. With PPK coding for me, we have been known to go from concept to reality in less than 24 hours on many big projects. This will be no exception. We can code all the scripts, get a secure BBS together, etc all within 3, 4 days max. But like I said before first step is to talk to a few attorneys and see where we stand before any money is collected.

Thank you. Is your firm taking on new clients for non-patent cases?

Hit the nail on the head.

If Choker gets involved - lookout.

Ok, if this firm got a dismissal with prejudice they have taken the biggest bite out of Acacia to date. Holio can you chime in here and post some comments? Point of contact, etc thanks


Webattorney. A password protected membership only legal BBS for 24.99 a month. Unlimited legal questions answered via the BBS only. Think about it. Every webmaster needs legal advice, there are so many lost souls......

Come on guys, how about some help here. If I posted a thread about funny pics this thread would be 20 pages long by now of pics from all over the web. We need law firms that have dealt with Acacia before. Surely somone has info. Also I recall reading a court ruling that stated that websites are not resposible for linking to other sites. Surely somone knows about this. If true this would directly conflict with what Acacia is claiming, then Acacia would have to over turn that court ruling in order to pursue their case.

Dismissed without prejudice doesn't mean anything.

It can be as simple as a clerical error or mispelling on the suit.

That's all there is at this point. Has anyone actually went head to head with Acacia and came out smiling?

Choker ICQ me...
I want to donate some cash! :thumbsup

p.s. 9 4 3 9 9 7 2 3

I agree, tgps & freesites don't have video running off their direct domain! So why the hell would it matter to sue them! I think the TGP's now need to ban together!

Otherwise were all going to be FUCKED for linking to a fucking gallery!

jDoG

Sony, Sharp and Toshiba

Summary judgement against Acacia in the v-chip case.

Count me in, Choker

icq 7915057

Thanks, but first I need some point of contacts for patent attorneys. I can start calling monday morning. I am hoping we can do this as a single law firm REPRESENTING people who wish it. So if this happens we can figure out a flat rate per webmaster, domain or whatever. I know I don't like the idea of "donating" as I have no idea what my money is doing. I want it set up so each webmaster is getting represented. So each gets a service for the money he spends, not just money thrown in to a pot that nobody knows what is going on with.

http://www.fr.com/ <- Fish and Richardon

http://www.fr.com/about/directions.cfm?child=addresses <- contacts

-----
Silicon Valley
500 Arguello Street, Suite 500
Redwood City, CA 94063
Telephone:650 839-5070
Facsimile:650 839-5071
Managing Principal: David J. Miclean
---

In general I support the sentiment of banding together and fighting this. Many have suggested it. Choker can be our George Washington and lead us to action.


A few thoughts:

1. if I were an independant business owner, and not incorporated, I think I could sue anybody for anything about my business. Maybe I might go down to the courthouse and file a pro se lawsuit against acacia for extortion

2. it seems to me if I did #1 then organizations like EFF, EPIC, Fight the Patent, IMPAI would support me

3. There is a legal concept of suing for declaratory relief, bringing an issue before a judge before you are sued, and ask him him to determine

4. ACACIA is supposed to have $50Million dollars in cash. That will pay for a lot of attorneys

5. As fucked up as the courts are, they are objective, and a groundswell of public sympathy will emerge for independant business folks fighting this - if you are a small unincorporated business owner, don't be afraid! You can be a patriot and take matters into your own hands

6. Corporations HAVE to hire attorneys to fight these things

7. My strategy recommendation would be to get someone like Carreon or Roberts or F&R to organize an initial strike against Acacia, then let it turn a patent issue later.

To support point 7 - Acacia seems to be making assertions that are not proven in a court of law - that's not illegal, but it may leave them open to damage in some states, especially liberal california where I believe they reside.

Choker - ICQ me 336189731 please.

Choker,

Has there been any word from the international TGP owners whether they are also being sent *hack packs*? I don't know of any lawyers(attempt to stay away from them), but I've got a pretty dedicated crowd, so I'll probably put up a warning that links to vids may come down soon and see if I can get any input.

Their financial sheets are all messed up, combining different divisions, etc.

On the 3Q conference call, the CEO or President commented that they have $1M set aside for patent litigation.

They don't have $40M in the bank.. i think the $27M they got from V-Chip licenses got sucked away to other parts of the company.

$1M is not that much for a year's worth of patent ligitigation.. maybe they are hoping everyone just rolls over... oh wait, there are 11 defendants jus waiting for their day in court...


Fight the Patent!

Count me in also Choker :D

This is off their financial report from the SEC site.

"Cash and cash equivalents and
short-term investments on a consolidated basis totaled $53,559,000 as of
September 30, 2003 compared to $54,688,000 as of December 31, 2002.
"

I would...tell your attorney to contact me and I can bring him up to speed on the issues and on prior art.... when you are ready.

I already contacted EFF two months ago... exchanged several emails with the Chairman of the Board. they are focused on other issues than patents, so count them out for now until they get an "information packet'... i pointed out to him that EFF.org carries .MP3 files


Fight the Patent!

AMEN! This thread is goin on for ever!!! Let's just do something. We're a bunch of arm chair lawyers here anyway. We need some hard facts on how to proceed from someone that knows what they're doing....

The first meeting with a lawyer is free or cost a couple hundred bucks to find out what the costs could be and at least get the options on what to do.... Federal, State, class action, test case.. and all that. Choker talkin to a law firm on Monday and comin back with some solid info on how to proceed is the way to go!

It's clear many of us are behind the effort, but there might be stuff to consider....

Just post the details here - Let the lawyers guide the way on what to do next.

Thanks for the efforts choker!

We will run into a problem with our attorneys if we ask the attorney to represent many people.

This problem will come about due to potential conflicts of interest among the clients.

A better solution is to start a focused industry association (similar, but not identical to those already existing, FTP/IMPAI) and then that industry association will hire an attorney to promote its cause.

I hereby propose that an entity be created called:

<B>Website Operators for Free Linking (WOFL)</B>

For $1500 you can form a corporation, apply for non-profit status, and elect a board and officers and form a charter.

The board of WOFL can then raise money, hire attorneys, and perform actions to benefit its cause.

We should get guidance from an attorney, but gathering to gether into a foundation/corporation is a good idea, and one that will all us to properly focus our effots.

Choker, ICQ me at 336189731

:thumbsup

Awesome post, good info here. But does anyone know the specific attorney that handled Holio's case? It would be best to have the same team/guy. Your post has great advice and it says what I am trying to tell people, ......... we HAVE to be proactive. The longer we wait to do something the more it will cost and the more uncertain the outcome will be.

This ain't no fucking game people. If you have a free site of any kind, whether you link to other sites with videos or not, you will get the letter. And history has proved that after the letter comes the lawsuit. And here's a fucking wake up call for you guys sleeping.

If Acacia says you are in violation, YOU ARE. It is up to you to prove them wrong. Not up to them to prove you are. Keep your head burried in the sand and watch your sites go 404 soon.

There are a ton of us, thousands. If each webmaster here can't pull $100 out of his ass then WTF.

Guys getting this letter and doing nothing about it, thinking ACACIA has to prove they are in violation are in for a rude awakening. It does not work that way.

Choker I'm in tell me where to give you some money and I give you 500$. I will try to see if I can find a good attorney for us. :thumbsup

Choker, can you ICQ me please? 44737242.

This is my solution involving Fight The Patent Foundation:

The current pledge drive seeks 2,500 webmasters to pledge $100. Once the pledge counter reaches $250,000.. i will incorporate FTPF as a non-profit 501c3, then accept donations. Afterwhich, the execution of the charter:

-Raise additional money from mainstream companies to fill the warchest (250K is not enough, but it's a start to impress mainstream companies to contribute further).

-Offer defense attorney assistance to webmasters that want to fight aginst the claims, much like ACLU. Offer defense assistance to current defendants in the form of paying for attorney time, providing additional attorneys, providing prior art, etc.

-start a grassroots prior art search effort that allows people to submit leads to a website and get rated/ get points for their finds, and get prizes/cash

-Attract media attention to the issues

-Start the 'Pay it forward' model to find expert witnesses and motive them to testify by being compensated by the Foundation making a donation to their favorite charity in their name.

-petition the USPTO to invalidate the patent directly with them with a team of attorneys (paid and volunteer).

-continue to post on message boards to bring awareness, advocacy, and information.




I realize that a new proposal here is form an organization for TGPers. I will fully support any idea that you guys come up with.

I am presenting just 1 proposal, i have about 220,000 some reasons of why my approach may not happen.

As my personal crusade to fight against patent abuse, I am active in finding prior art and expert witnesses to help IMPA and the defendants, and I will help out with your TGP group efforts. I do all of this at my own expense without any compensation.

FTPF is but an abstract idea that has some great supporters, and looking for more.


Fight the Patent!

Not that I know of

thanks but at this point a good list of good attorneys is what we need. I don't want to take any money yet, not until we figure out a estimated cost, and set up some sort of fee structure. Think about it, can we get 2000 webmasters to ponie up $100 each? Sure we can. What choice do we all have? Pay now or pay later. that's it. When I do set this up, it will be script based with full accounting of every single penny so everyone will know exactly what their money is doing.

Yes you are the BIG PICTURE. What I propose is a defense fund to invalidate Acacias claim that free sites linking to sites with videos on them are violating their patent. This is a much more "(immediate and present danger)" to EVERY WEBMASTER in this business. Of course sharing research and all info is essential.

I understand that..... but 2,000 webmasters @ $100 each may not be enough... last thing you want to have happen is you start your group, get on the road to going to court and find your burn rate depletes your money...then what?

The reason that FTPF does not focus on just Acacia is because of potential antitrust issues.... but there is nothing wrong with FTPF's first patent abuse case to be Acacia... that's why i always reference fighting against patent abuse, not about fighting Acacia.. there is a reason for it.

ANother issue, forming an organization is a full time job...doing it on a part time basis as a side project may not cut it.

As you mentioned, FTPF is looking at the big picture because USA Video could very well do the same as Acacia since they too have a patent claim to downloading of video.

Maybe the answer is you work through IMPA since they have some structure already in place. They already have attorneys that understand the case and issues, and could take TGP people up as a class to open another front or join the exist front of 11 defendants.

Most big IP firms don't like p*rn companies.....F&R has already taken alot of flak from people because they accepted this case.

lastly, you can't take any legal action until they actually sue one of the people in your group.


:2 cents:


Fight the Patent!

This little fish in the big pond is behind any action choker takes and will contribute my meager offering when the time comes..


Amber
icq 15741038
:ak47:

I am not alone in not wanting my money going to help support other causes than my own. I cannot take on the worlds problems, just my own and what directly affects me at this moment. Not saying I do not care what happens to the 11 they support, but I do not want any part of my money going to support thier cause, nor would I want their money going to support mine. Why not work with IMPA and use their same attorneys yet keep a seperate fund? I will not and cannot rally other people behind the idea of giving money that I do not see results with, and know exactly where every penny is going to. If the shit hits the fan and gets real nasty, I want the most bang for my buck.

Choker, everybody, STOP.

Relax for a minute.

Choker, you said: Not from some site we never heard of that comes on the scene when this Acacia crap started.


If you don't feel that the defendants in the case are the right people to support then you are playing into Acacia's hand.

We already have this organization in place. The defense group is already fighting this to invalidate the patents. This is in the works. The defense group are the companies that DID NOT SETTLE, and WILL NOT SETTLE and NEED your support to fight this.

Start ANOTHER organization and you fragment us even further and NOBODY succeeds EXCEPT Acacia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The defense group, also initial members of the IMPA are solid, and are fighting this battle and thus far, bearing all the costs. We need your support and we need your $$$. Another group simply plays into Acacia's hand.

This is the WRONG execution of the right idea. First and foremost, all of the laywers you are mentioning are mostly 1st ammendment and free speech lawyers. This is NOT a free speech issue, this is a PATENT ISSUE.

The defense group has THE FINEST patent law firm in the united states representing them. If you guys want to go off half cocked you will accomplish NOTHING and you will play right into Acacia's hands.

The defense group: Homegrown, Video Secrets, Ademia, Gamelink, AEBN, etc, etc, etc ARE ALREADY fighting this battle and along with the IMPA needs your support. We dont need yet ANOTHER organization spreading the dollars and further fragmenting our defense.

All this talk of extortion, etc, etc, etc, is STUPID. Acacia has a patent, they are not committing extortion. The defense group, and the IMPA believe that the patents are bogus, unenforceable, and that we are NOT INFRINGING. That is why we are attempting to invalidate the patents, the way you do it, in court.

Support the defense group, we win.
Support IMPA, we win.
Form yet ANOTHER organization, we surely will lose.

Contact me, or [email protected] if you have any questions.

We need your support. We have been fighting this and we will fight it to the end were we all feel strongly we will win!

http://www.impai.org

Fish and Richardson is the law firm that is representing the defense group and thus representing the industry. We DONT NEED another organization, we need your support for the defense group.

All of this talk about Holio will get you nowhere. They didnt bust the patent, they didnt break the case. I wish Holio would post what happened but they wont, and I cant comment.

There is nothing in what Holio did that will help anyone.

Stop the fragmentation, support the EXISTING defense group and the IMPA. THAT IS THE WAY TO FIGHT ACACIA!!!

FightThisPatent...

I for one want to hear it from a lawyer whether Acacia has a leg to stand on going after sites that link to links that supply vids. This, in my eyes, has huge consequences to everyone as it can be a precedence for this to drag on for years and just about everyone getting one of these in the mail.

Does anyone know if the FREE hosts are caught up in this? 1/2 of the FREE porn is running on them anyway.

THIS IS YOUR CAUSE. The defense group is NOT working just to save their own asses. We are working to INVALIDATE the patents. If the patents are not valid, NOBODY pays a dime!

1. We invalidate the patents and you win, along with the defense group.

2. We invalidate the patents and we send a STRONG message to the rest of the companies that might hold horeshit patents that the adult industry is NOT the place to test the waters.

This is expensive. Your 2000 webmasters x $100 MIGHT last you 2 months, if you find a cheap attorney.

This is EXPENSIVE. The defense group has already spent more than your little example and we will have to spend even more to invalidate these patents so that EVERYBODY wins.

Form another group, spread the money, and EVERYONE loses.

If anyone would like to talk to me about this, feel free to call my cell phone at 909-232-3396 and I will be happy to explain why we NEED your support, we need your $$$, but we DONT need yet ANOTHER organization.

JMM,

We are on the same page, but ...... people are not going to get involved and open up their wallets unless the threat DIRECTLY stares them down. Yes the 11 are big sponsors, I think most guys attitudes is "they have money let them fight their own battles". Trying to change this attitude is not going to happen. You are fighting the BIG patent, that does not affect free sites for the most part. But Acacias claim that "providing access" to strreaming video does affect them. If we want people to contribute why not a seperate fund to address this claim and this claim only? Surely when invalidated this will further your cause. Another thing people want to see, is progress. I realize it is hard to disclose what is going on to the masses, but if you get money from the masses to fight, then you have to.

I would MUCH RATHER have this organization handle this, I do not have the free time for it. I can get behind it and rally others to do the same.

What we are fighting effects EVERYONE. We are fighting to invalidate the patents and make them disappear. The same patent that hits us, hits you and everyone else. There arent different patents for different types of sites.

I have to leave the computer for a few hours, choker, please call me asap at 909-232-3396 I really want to talk to you and would appreciate your call.

:thumbsup

Can we talk in the morning? I am heading out. I think the bottom line is this....in order to get the average guy to open his wallet and help out, he needs to see results, he needs to be assured that his "situation" is being addressed. He needs relief from the "(clear and present danger)" to his income. The issue of the patent itself valid or invalid is not going to be seen by the average guy as the immediate danger. Right now the situation where Acacia is claiming that free sites are in violation for linking to video is what needs to be addressed. This is what will get guys to help, not fighting the patent itself.

The possibilities are mind boggling. Would I promote a sponsor that helped out? Would I trade with a site that helped out? Would I consider webmasters that helped out elite and pursue deals with them over webmasters who did not help out? Of course I would. Who wouldn't?

I'll throw in a hundred and I dont even use vids.

I understand the fragmentation & confusion issue. But JMM you should realize it started before today & Choker - with FTPF.

The volunteer work that Brandon is doing is nothing short of awesome & his presense in this whole thing is appreciated by all I'm sure.

But this is short attention span theater & this shit is getting confusing. :2 cents:

The IMPA (goes to defense fund??)
The Defense fund
The Defense group
The FTPF (pledges only?)
Now Chokers idea.

And then all of the players of the respective groups.

We're all from an industry that should understand the K.I.S.S philosophy very well by now.
(Keep it simple stupid, for you newbies :winkwink: ... and I have a feeling this post wont adhere to that very well.)

The only thing that sort of bothers me about the FTPF pledge drive is it's timing. Brandon has over $25,000 in pledges from people who may now feel that by making that "pledge" they have contributed to in helping to invalidate Acacias patents & this feeling may prevent them from contributing NOW to the organization or group or whatever, that is CURRENTLY IN THE COURT SYSTEM.

Like JMM & everyone has said... if Acacias patents are invalidated or considerably narrowed, this will affect EVERYONE.

IMO, there should be ONE PLACE to donate some money to help those who are specifically fighting to invalidate Acacia's patents if the people donating and fighting feel that prior art and/or considerable prior use exists.


On the other hand I understand where Choker is coming from.

From the sound of it, Acacia recently made a big play by apparently emailing tons of new people their first and "final offer".

It's been said over and over again by you, Far-L, Spike and everyone with any sense... sitting back and "doing nothing" is probably not the best thing to do.

So these people who have been contacted need legal representation NOW to properly respond to Acacia's new round of letters & perhaps even initiate a suit against them if one is warranted.

I know that most attorneys don't like giving out form/template responses for clients... so I think this is going to be a problem for Choker anyway.

Someone said how it would have to go down. A whole new group would probably have to be formed & that just causes more fragmentation & confusion.


Question for you though JMM....

If not Chokers idea, then what?

What are the individual people who are being contacted (and threatened with legal action?) NOW with requests to repond by Nov 31 supposed to do?

A lot of these guys can't afford $300/hour attorneys. So what should they do?

And again I want to stress I am not anti-Brandon or FTP (the character). His work kicks ass.

I just think it's ill timing for the pledge drive.

I realize there are other patents on the horizon that can threaten this industry.

But if Acacia's patents are upheld after going through the battles with the people in the defense group.... none of that will matter much anyway, as the industry will most likely have about 95% less players and the big dogs who remain will opt for their own legal counsel and "watchdog groups" they themselves control or are directly a part of.
:2 cents:

you got my full support and im willing to put up the money needed whatever the amount may be also i think we really need to create a password protected board to discuss these matters.

if anyone need to get in contact with me to discuss anything
icq: 203926821

Hahaha, that's what I was thinking

Rothken Law Firm - http://www.techfirm.com/


--Representing our Client in a lawsuit against the Recording Industry regarding the issue of whether or not mere hyperlinking arising out of Internet search engine results can constitute contributory copyright infringement in Arista Records et al. v. MP3Board, Inc./ MP3Board, Inc. v. RIAA;

--Representing our Client in a lawsuit brought by the Major Video game Publishers regarding the issue of whether or not hyperlinking to third party web sites - who in turn hyperlink to infringing content - can constitute contributory copyright infringement or a violation of the Lanham Act (trademark law) in Activision et al. v. Sterling (Warez.com);


"regarding the issue of whether or not hyperlinking to third party web sites - who in turn hyperlink to infringing content "

these guys might be able to help with the case...they were fighting with RIAA about the hyperlinks and if a site is in violation of a copyrigth and a trademark law when it is hyperlinking to third party web sites...i think that we have the same situation here...tgps hyperlinking to galleries with conent in violation of the accacia patent...