1989 Video from AT&T Labs "Pandora" project defeats Acacia patent claims! - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

What time do you go to bed?

It's presently 7.30pm in Sydney

Bastards!!!

I was real tired and absolutely beat! Couldn't sleep though so I'm gonna have a couple drinks

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy

hahah I was thinking the exact same thing.. I had to check my clock to make sure I hadn't missed several hours... I'm assuming he's on a webmaster sleep cycle.

Paul Markham · 10-14-2003, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy
man they must be pissed at their prior art researchers.

Did they actually release who there researchers were?

This could lay them very open to the counter claim that they did not do there research properly, or did they do it at all. Someone find out who their researchers were and what they actually did, if they didn't do there job properly and just tried to push this through, they could end up on the wrong side in a court case.

We need to get this info out to Spike and see what he can make of it. Let's put Berman out of business as a lesson to anyone else who thinks we are pussies.

We owe Sqirtit for this work, want some content for free mate?

james_clickmemedia · 10-14-2003, 03:57 AM

Good work on the prior art....

Serge_Oprano · 10-14-2003, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy

yep - seriously, congratulations.. great find mate.

ditto,
even though I scratch "mate"
;-)))

swingerman · 10-14-2003, 04:11 AM

Squirtit, you're the man!

onlymovies · 10-14-2003, 04:17 AM

A very good fine.

This really kind of scares me though to see this stuff posted on a public board as it gives Acacia a lot of time to figure out away around it....and even more time to prepare some 'arguments' for the judge.

The last thing you want is for Acacia to know what ammunition is going to be released upon them in court.....and that's just making Homegrown's fight that much harder to win. I bet Acacia reads this board daily and laughs at us as they sit here collecting info on how their attackers plan to attack. I know i would. Just something to keep in mind.

On another note, I also remember hearing an interview where they were "patching" up the holes in the patent on a constant basis. Keep in mind that whatever is said here is just giving them more ideas to use to patch up their patent before it goes to trial. Weather that's true or not, who knows.

New information is always exciting. But there's a time and place for it. Acacia is after the adult industry and you know they're watching the biggest adult webmaster board closely. This is not the place to post this stuff, and right now is not the time to publicize new finds that will give Homegrown a harder fight in the end. Just an opinion and my 2cents.

None the less, this is a great find for sure. Nice work.

Paul Markham · 10-14-2003, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK
Imagine if you could find a perfect example of prior art, but it turned out to be a video of hardcore anal sex. How funny would that be?

My brother was at college for computer sciences back in the mid 70s, he said all they did not the Internet was swap porn files with other students around the world.

XXXPhoto · 10-14-2003, 04:25 AM

This fellow seemed to be on the track in early 80s...

http://www.chiariglione.org/leonardo/publications/

Sincerely,
~Mark XXXPhoto

the Grandad · 10-14-2003, 04:28 AM

Great one Squirtit

Also onlymovies has a good point about this post perhaps we could have this thread deleted and continue discustions on a Usename/Password protected area?

dchottie · 10-14-2003, 04:29 AM

I found these links and thought they were very interesting. It shows the direction we were headed in as far back as the early 70's and late 60's:

http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc508.html
http://www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/docs/arpa-Introduc.html

And this was highly interesting but i'm just not sure how to find the actual trial records from this case so that I can find the dates that he posted a playboy picture for download. He was arrested in 1993 by the FBI for piracy and part of the charge was for having this photo available on the bbs but it doesn't say what dates the photo was available: http://www.pixi.com/~irvdili/page-22.htm

related link: http://timeline.textfiles.com/1987/

OH Yeah, and there is this one also. I think this is really promising:
New NODELIST Distribution Method
by Ben Baker, Fido 100/76

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the nodelist is becoming
quite large. If there is no satellite link, it takes about four
and a half minutes to transmit NODELIST.A59 at 2400 baud, and
nearly eight minutes at 1200 baud. It took OVER eight minutes at
2400 baud to send it via satellite to Hawaii!

We now have about eight hundred nodes in the nodelist. If
we assume an average of six minutes transmission time per node,
that's about eighty hours a week to distribute a new nodelist to
everybody! If only ten per cent is long distance, that's still a
non-trivial sum we're giving Ma Bell each week! In order to
reduce the overhead of nodelist distribution, we are making a
change to the distribution format.

NODELIST.A73 will be a particularly fat nodelist archive
file. It will contain some extra files which are very important
to you. The complete contents of the file are as follows:

COORD.073
NODELIST.073
NODEDIFF.073
EDITNL.ARC consisting of
EDITNL.COM
EDITNL.DOC

NODEDIFF.073 will be a file which represents the differences
between NODELIST.066 and NODELIST.073 in a rather simplistic edit
command format. EDITNL is the program which can construct
NODELIST.073 from NODELIST.066 and NODEDIFF.073. It will be
instructive to compare the sizes of the NODELIST and NODEDIFF
files.

Source http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/FIDONET...S/fido0309.nws

Scootermuze · 10-14-2003, 04:32 AM

It seems to me that the defense attorneys could take this information and send it to the patent office, if it in fact proves prior art, and have Acacia's patent revoked.

It could easily be shown that the patent was granted without merit.. and I would think that they would have no choice but to pull the patent rights.

Paul Markham · 10-14-2003, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by the Grandad
Great one Squirtit

Also onlymovies has a good point about this post perhaps we could have this thread deleted and continue discustions on a Usename/Password protected area?

I think Acacia will be bright enough to register if they need to.

Plus I think you will find there is such a thing as "discovery". What this does, is show Acacia what they are up against and now they have decided to go after the universities they are in for a tougher time.

Anyone bothered to ask Ken what he thinks of this? He showed how much of a team player he is one week, then the next he sees what the little guys can do.

I bet he's going to be the webmasters kicking toy at the next convention he show up at.

Pleasurepays · 10-14-2003, 04:37 AM

most likely this goes all the way back to Stanford and DARPA Net, its just a question of finding some evidence of it.

dchottie · 10-14-2003, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pleasurepays
most likely this goes all the way back to Stanford and DARPA Net, its just a question of finding some evidence of it.

DARPA Net was an off shoot of the ARPANET and like I said they have documented work back into the late 60's and early 70s of work with audio and video on the internet. Check out the links I posted.

Pleasurepays · 10-14-2003, 04:50 AM

in fact, it may prove to be easier to track down some of the people who helped start all this. Most of the people who worked on ARPA and developed ARPANET in the late 60's and early 70's were professors at UCLA, MIT, University of Minnisota, Stanford and other universities. they are probably easy to find.

it seems hard to believe that they would not know of very early examples of audio/video on the web... and be able to offer supporting documents that prove it since everything was very well documented.

chemicaleyes · 10-14-2003, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdvertisingSex
Scratch out Acacia's name and insert AT&T's...

Pleasurepays · 10-14-2003, 04:52 AM

hehe. sorry. i did not read your post.

but you are right,... everything is very well documented. its just a question of finding everything.

i seriously doubt that their interest stopped at simply sharing documents and it seems quite logical that audio/video would be a natural next progression.

vicki · 10-14-2003, 05:01 AM

absolutely AWESOME squirtit!

I do have to say one thing though, think of this as war tactics (or even a game of chess). When you give the opposition the edge of knowing your future moves, you are also giving the opposition the edge of countering that move and winning the battle. I do NOT want to throw cold water here but its pretty obvious which boards are being watched

I wish there were some way to keep these incredible finds behind a secured area, yet still list things we need to find ...... then after all is said and done give the credit openly to those who gave so selfishly of their time and efforts (like squirtit)

and one final thought, there should be no need for a court case if the legal team fighting this deems it as 'proof' (which is looking good :D), all they need to do is present it to the researcher involved at the patent office - or his immediate supervisor

reguardless of all i'm trying to contain myself from breaking into a HAPPY DANCE!

fiveyes · 10-14-2003, 05:06 AM

The "we must not post prior art examples" argument has been rehashed before. The only way it can hurt the defense team is if any of the defendents begin actively participating, which could open them up to additional law suits besides that of infringement.

As far as Acacia being aware of what is being said here, take it for granted. It's already been shown that they are not only aware of these forums in general but are actively monitoring them.

But, the fact is, prior art is prior art. If it exists, their patent will either be invalidated or the claims will be narrowed in their interprtation and application. It's not going to matter if they know about it now, next week or a year from now, prior art is simply not something than they'll be able to "argue away" once it surfaces. And neither is there going to be a "last minute surprise" pulled in the courtroom that will turn the tide one way or the other. That only happens on Perry Mason.

These open discussions, pats on the back, and feedback amongst ourselves about prior art is not only the right thing to do, since it encourages others to join in on the search, but it's the BEST thing to do, since it may well take the wind out of Acacia's sails before they ever get to the courtroom.

goBigtime · 10-14-2003, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squirtit

Yeah... all the time and effort... all the money... could have been spent on me .. a little Squirt!! ;) And God knows I need it to promote my site and make some $$$$

If this turns out to be the straw that breaks Acacias back, then all of you guys with traffic trades should be giving Squirtit a lifetime link

Pleasurepays · 10-14-2003, 05:13 AM

i agree... keeping the discussions quiet is a big part of the problem.

the biggest part of the problem.

Acacia is a publically held company. I would like to know that their shareholders know they are being fucked dry by a bunch of ambulance chasing attorneys on a flimsy case which is facing growing opposition.

this shit should be on CNN... not GFY!

pornguy · 10-14-2003, 05:13 AM

Hey squirtit, if this works to get them off our backs, then maybe we shhould each send you 5 bucks.

Thanks man!

fiveyes · 10-14-2003, 05:20 AM

Oh, and one other thing- any promising lead anyone comes across should be forwarded to :

Spike @ homegrownvideo.com

He isn't able to keep up with everything that happens on the boards and might very well overlook something important otherwise. Be a shame if somebody found exactly what was needed for a key argument and it didn't get forwarded on to the defense team...

goBigtime · 10-14-2003, 05:30 AM

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mb?s=ACTG

I'm surprised that nobody has posted this GFY link there yet.

goBigtime · 10-14-2003, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
here's some more stuff that looks rather interesting... straight outta the IEEE Journal on selected areas in communications, specifically, Volume: 7, Issue: 5, Year: Jun 1989

gotta be a member to access the full journals, but you can see by the two pages of very descriptive titles that Acacia did NOT invent this shit.

I'm pretty sure that It's not so much the hardware/technology that Acacia is claiming - but the method/process of setting up a library of content that the end user is able to choose content items from to be downloaded (or streamed) to him/her and optionally saved for later re-plays.

PrivateEye · 10-14-2003, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pleasurepays
i agree... keeping the discussions quiet is a big part of the problem.

the biggest part of the problem.

Acacia is a publically held company. I would like to know that their shareholders know they are being fucked dry by a bunch of ambulance chasing attorneys on a flimsy case which is facing growing opposition.

this shit should be on CNN... not GFY!

I agree....but better than CNN we should all go around and post on all the investor boards that prior art has been found....and maybe even a few of the ones left should files counter suits

If we could cause mass panic...might make that stock fall fast...taking there running capital with it

Deeprub

Groove · 10-14-2003, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mb?s=ACTG

I'm surprised that nobody has posted this GFY link there yet.

It would be interesting to see what happens to Acacia's stock
price if the AT&T movie was posted to that board

fiveyes · 10-14-2003, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

It would be interesting to see what happens to Acacia's stock
price if the AT&T movie was posted to that board

I've mucked around a bit this past year on that forum, tweaking their noses every once in awhile. But this one isn't my find.

Sure is tempting though...

Maybe just a wee link to this thread?

vicki · 10-14-2003, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

But, the fact is, prior art is prior art. If it exists, their patent will either be invalidated or the claims will be narrowed in their interprtation and application. It's not going to matter if they know about it now, next week or a year from now, prior art is simply not something than they'll be able to "argue away" once it surfaces. And neither is there going to be a "last minute surprise" pulled in the courtroom that will turn the tide one way or the other. That only happens on Perry Mason.

These open discussions, pats on the back, and feedback amongst ourselves about prior art is not only the right thing to do, since it encourages others to join in on the search, but it's the BEST thing to do, since it may well take the wind out of Acacia's sails before they ever get to the courtroom.

Why go to court at all? If the defending lawyers see this as proof of prior art, the patent office and their researcher is all thats needed to overturn the patent ... no?

*pffffttttt on acacia*

vicki · 10-14-2003, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deeprub

I agree....but better than CNN we should all go around and post on all the investor boards that prior art has been found....and maybe even a few of the ones left should files counter suits

If we could cause mass panic...might make that stock fall fast...taking there running capital with it

Deeprub

oooooOOOOOOO how diabolicly wonderfully evil ... I LOVE IT!

pimplink · 10-14-2003, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdvertisingSex
Scratch out Acacia's name and insert AT&T's...

~Ray

we'll see

fiveyes · 10-14-2003, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vicki

Why go to court at all? If the defending lawyers see this as proof of prior art, the patent office and their researcher is all thats needed to overturn the patent ... no?

*pffffttttt on acacia*

Good point: http://www.yarbroughlaw.com/Patent%2...amination2.htm

Groove · 10-14-2003, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

I've mucked around a bit this past year on that forum, tweaking their noses every once in awhile. But this one isn't my find.

Sure is tempting though...

Maybe just a wee link to this thread?

Well if the video or thread is to get posted, Squirtit
should definitely have first option of doing it

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squirtit

BTW Brandon you told me on the phone I should come here and post for bragging rights then you post that they already have this lead?

Something isn't right here... care to explain?

After talking with you and the inital excitement at the find, the name Pandora stuck in my head.... i dug back into my emails to figure out where i had seen that name.

It was not until later that i figured it out...

There is no disparaging of you or anyone's efforts.... I am so glad that people like squirt and all the other posters are taking the time out of their own busy lives to help find the prior art.

I'm sorry that you feel that i acted like a referee in a game, but someone has to act as a clearinghouse, otherwise people would all be finding the exact same things.

With Fiveyes post, it seems to be clear that referees are unpopular sometimes with the players because the calls they have to make.

You think I have the patent on prior art searches? Puh-leeez.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

I just want to know how he has access to a defense lawyer after business hours. That's a trick I've never managed...

Patent lawyers seem to find me and they like my approach to fighting against patent abuse, and offer their time to answer my questions... fortunately, they are online and accessible.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

It's all fine and good that there is such an interest and willingness to look for prior art on this matter, but a more effective approach is always the coordinated effort.

yes, an excellent point.. one that is echoed by some recent conversations with a patent attorney.

The initial debate was whether to even post prior art searches, and in the end, the decision was made that posting what prior art searches i was doing was a good thing.

The next step is to add to that list to include the prior art that was found so that anyone can view/read it.

I think it is a good idea, and I will create that page.

Squirt's find is an excellent one...... it gives those people watching it more information to help in their decision to fight or not fight against the patent claims.

This is what Squirt's find means to me... when watching that video, it just drives it home...... so it makes sense for everyone to view video clips like this or to read about the other prior art finds there has been.

Fight the Patent!

plexer · 10-14-2003, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy

yaa yaaa..

Aussie Rebel · 10-14-2003, 06:46 AM

Great find mate

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sexeducation

you don't give him an opportunity to "control" things ....

I don't need to "control" things.. I have never asked anyone to do anything, nor have ever put myself into the drivers seat and ask others to hop in. (given the great number of great posts, maybe i should have asked for help... but then again, I have been posting the Searching.html page many times throughout the threads.).

What I have been doing with FightThePatent.com has been my own crusade, and along the way, many people have joined it and have contributed.

I get emails on a daily basis from people who have ideas or pointers for prior art.

I get emails daily from webmasters how are very concerned about these issues because they may have to settle with Acacia to protect their business. I talk to many on the phone in a counseling kind of way, to present all the issues, and I tell them if they have to pay the license, they won't be looked down upon by me, i understand the hard business decisions that people must make if they don't have the money to fight.

I put up this page http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html as like a FAQ because so many want to help, that it made sense to just point people to this page....these are the searches that I am looking for, but doesn't list what I have already found.. so I'll create a new FAQ-type page to list what has been found.. not only to help reduce any duplication of efforts, but also to let those who have an "information packet" to make some judgements on their own.

I am not hording the prior art finds from anyone. Any defense attorney that contacts me will get the same information that I pass on to the current ones.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onlymovies
A very good fine.

This really kind of scares me though to see this stuff posted on a public board as it gives Acacia a lot of time to figure out away around it....and even more time to prepare some 'arguments' for the judge.

Yes, this is exactly the point that defense attorney made when I was confronted by some open-source developers asking why don't i just post all the prior art leads.

After some debate, the end conclusion was that if more people saw the prior art seach list and the prior art finds, then more could get involved.

This thread is excellent testimony to that point.

Fight the Patent!

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

I don't need to "control" things.. I have never asked anyone to do anything, nor have ever put myself into the drivers seat and ask others to hop in. (given the great number of great posts, maybe i should have asked for help... but then again, I have been posting the Searching.html page many times throughout the threads.).

What I have been doing with FightThePatent.com has been my own crusade, and along the way, many people have joined it and have contributed.

I get emails on a daily basis from people who have ideas or pointers for prior art.

I get emails daily from webmasters how are very concerned about these issues because they may have to settle with Acacia to protect their business. I talk to many on the phone in a counseling kind of way, to present all the issues, and I tell them if they have to pay the license, they won't be looked down upon by me, i understand the hard business decisions that people must make if they don't have the money to fight.

I put up this page http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html as like a FAQ because so many want to help, that it made sense to just point people to this page....these are the searches that I am looking for, but doesn't list what I have already found.. so I'll create a new FAQ-type page to list what has been found.. not only to help reduce any duplication of efforts, but also to let those who have an "information packet" to make some judgements on their own.

I am not hording the prior art finds from anyone. Any defense attorney that contacts me will get the same information that I pass on to the current ones.

Fight the Patent!

I think your prior post was just confusing to everyone. I know it was late and you were VERY tired.... so don't sweat it.

I joined the crusade to FightThePatent because I was inspired by your drive, energy, and conviction to do what was right! There is more prior art.... not everything is posted on the boards

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
IPlus I think you will find there is such a thing as "discovery". What this does, is show Acacia what they are up against and now they have decided to go after the universities they are in for a tougher time.

The other reason that was given to go ahead and list the prior art searches was that any prior art would have to be disclosed anyways to Acacia during discovert.

The original reason that the defense side doesn't want prior art published, is that the plantiff could see it and start amending their patent (which many do) to make the patent stronger.

They are allowed to add to their patent to make it more specific and address prior art... but if the foundation of the patent is found invalid, then the rest just falls down like dominoes....so that's why it was finally felt that releasing the infor was a good idea.

Fight the Patent!

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

I've mucked around a bit this past year on that forum, tweaking their noses every once in awhile. But this one isn't my find.

Sure is tempting though...

Maybe just a wee link to this thread?

Go for it fiveyes!! I'm tired and it's midnite my time....

Do what you guys think is right! FightThePatent!!!

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

The other reason that was given to go ahead and list the prior art searches was that any prior art would have to be disclosed anyways to Acacia during discovert.

The original reason that the defense side doesn't want prior art published, is that the plantiff could see it and start amending their patent (which many do) to make the patent stronger.

They are allowed to add to their patent to make it more specific and address prior art... but if the foundation of the patent is found invalid, then the rest just falls down like dominoes....so that's why it was finally felt that releasing the infor was a good idea.

Fight the Patent!

Yeah this is all going to be found in discovery anyway..

Isn't it best they know now and avoid more costly litigation?

FightThisPatent · 10-14-2003, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pleasurepays
in fact, it may prove to be easier to track down some of the people who helped start all this.

For those that understand Internet history, you know that Al Gore did not create the Internet.. one name that history does acknowledge as the "father of the internet" is Vint Cerf.

Do a google search on him and you will understand his contribution.

Vint Cerf is currently a Senior VP at MCI.. i have exchanged many emails with him, and he is concerned about these patent abuse cases, especially when it was people like him and his peers that developed the technology that we all use today.

Fight the Patent!

goBigtime · 10-14-2003, 07:07 AM

Man I just watched that video ---- thats insane!

It talks SPECIFICALLY about cataloging and image/video libraries. It's basic video on demand.

I'm eager to see how Acacia is going to dispute this one. I doubt they will just concede even though I think Berman said in one of his interviews something like 'If there is prior art, call us, tell us about it. We want to know about it' ... not an exact quote, but I know he said something to that effect.

Hooper · 10-14-2003, 07:12 AM

way to go squirtit. that video is a nice find, but i'm certain that impa was aware of the bell labs research months ago.

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
Man I just watched that video ---- thats insane!

It talks SPECIFICALLY about cataloging and image/video libraries. It's basic video on demand.

I'm eager to see how Acacia is going to dispute this one. I doubt they will just concede even though I think Berman said in one of his interviews something like 'If there is prior art, call us, tell us about it. We want to know about it' ... not an exact quote, but I know he said something to that effect.

Yeah isn't it great!!! Step by step.. on video and explaining EVERYTHING to a T !!

AND as pleasurePays stated earlier:
"Prior Art" as definined in US Federal Law

Title 35, United States Code, Section 102

Sec. 102. - Conditions for patentability; novelty and loss of right to patent

A person shall be entitled to a patent unless -

(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent, or

(b ) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country, more than one year prior to the date of the application for patent in the United States, or

Bladewire · 10-14-2003, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Did they actually release who there researchers were?

This could lay them very open to the counter claim that they did not do there research properly, or did they do it at all. Someone find out who their researchers were and what they actually did, if they didn't do there job properly and just tried to push this through, they could end up on the wrong side in a court case.

We need to get this info out to Spike and see what he can make of it. Let's put Berman out of business as a lesson to anyone else who thinks we are pussies.

We owe Sqirtit for this work, want some content for free mate?

Charly good points there.. and yeah ICQ me about the content... you rock man!!! ICQ 265912752

10-14-2003, 03:57 AM	#104
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	Good work on the prior art.... __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

10-14-2003, 04:28 AM	#110
the Grandad Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: the Retirement Home (Almost) Posts: 1,038	Great one Squirtit Also onlymovies has a good point about this post perhaps we could have this thread deleted and continue discustions on a Usename/Password protected area? __________________ The Oldest Pimp in Town

10-14-2003, 04:29 AM	#111
dchottie Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 894	I found these links and thought they were very interesting. It shows the direction we were headed in as far back as the early 70's and late 60's: http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/ http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc508.html http://www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/docs/arpa-Introduc.html And this was highly interesting but i'm just not sure how to find the actual trial records from this case so that I can find the dates that he posted a playboy picture for download. He was arrested in 1993 by the FBI for piracy and part of the charge was for having this photo available on the bbs but it doesn't say what dates the photo was available: http://www.pixi.com/~irvdili/page-22.htm related link: http://timeline.textfiles.com/1987/ OH Yeah, and there is this one also. I think this is really promising: New NODELIST Distribution Method by Ben Baker, Fido 100/76 Maybe you haven't noticed, but the nodelist is becoming quite large. If there is no satellite link, it takes about four and a half minutes to transmit NODELIST.A59 at 2400 baud, and nearly eight minutes at 1200 baud. It took OVER eight minutes at 2400 baud to send it via satellite to Hawaii! We now have about eight hundred nodes in the nodelist. If we assume an average of six minutes transmission time per node, that's about eighty hours a week to distribute a new nodelist to everybody! If only ten per cent is long distance, that's still a non-trivial sum we're giving Ma Bell each week! In order to reduce the overhead of nodelist distribution, we are making a change to the distribution format. NODELIST.A73 will be a particularly fat nodelist archive file. It will contain some extra files which are very important to you. The complete contents of the file are as follows: COORD.073 NODELIST.073 NODEDIFF.073 EDITNL.ARC consisting of EDITNL.COM EDITNL.DOC NODEDIFF.073 will be a file which represents the differences between NODELIST.066 and NODELIST.073 in a rather simplistic edit command format. EDITNL is the program which can construct NODELIST.073 from NODELIST.066 and NODEDIFF.073. It will be instructive to compare the sizes of the NODELIST and NODEDIFF files. Source http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/FIDONET...S/fido0309.nws __________________

10-14-2003, 05:01 AM	#119
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	absolutely AWESOME squirtit! I do have to say one thing though, think of this as war tactics (or even a game of chess). When you give the opposition the edge of knowing your future moves, you are also giving the opposition the edge of countering that move and winning the battle. I do NOT want to throw cold water here but its pretty obvious which boards are being watched I wish there were some way to keep these incredible finds behind a secured area, yet still list things we need to find ...... then after all is said and done give the credit openly to those who gave so selfishly of their time and efforts (like squirtit) and one final thought, there should be no need for a court case if the legal team fighting this deems it as 'proof' (which is looking good :D), all they need to do is present it to the researcher involved at the patent office - or his immediate supervisor reguardless of all i'm trying to contain myself from breaking into a HAPPY DANCE! __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

10-14-2003, 05:06 AM	#120
fiveyes Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,680	The "we must not post prior art examples" argument has been rehashed before. The only way it can hurt the defense team is if any of the defendents begin actively participating, which could open them up to additional law suits besides that of infringement. As far as Acacia being aware of what is being said here, take it for granted. It's already been shown that they are not only aware of these forums in general but are actively monitoring them. But, the fact is, prior art is prior art. If it exists, their patent will either be invalidated or the claims will be narrowed in their interprtation and application. It's not going to matter if they know about it now, next week or a year from now, prior art is simply not something than they'll be able to "argue away" once it surfaces. And neither is there going to be a "last minute surprise" pulled in the courtroom that will turn the tide one way or the other. That only happens on Perry Mason. These open discussions, pats on the back, and feedback amongst ourselves about prior art is not only the right thing to do, since it encourages others to join in on the search, but it's the BEST thing to do, since it may well take the wind out of Acacia's sails before they ever get to the courtroom. __________________ <CENTER><A HREF="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/" target="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/images/hob-logosmall.jpg" border="0"></A> <FONT face="Comic Sans MS" SIZE="-1"><I>Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Wet-T, Night Club Action, UpSkirt, Oil Wrestling, Voyeur</I></FONT></CENTER>

10-14-2003, 04:11 AM	#106
swingerman Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 223	Squirtit, you're the man!

10-14-2003, 04:17 AM	#107
onlymovies Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 906	A very good fine. This really kind of scares me though to see this stuff posted on a public board as it gives Acacia a lot of time to figure out away around it....and even more time to prepare some 'arguments' for the judge. The last thing you want is for Acacia to know what ammunition is going to be released upon them in court.....and that's just making Homegrown's fight that much harder to win. I bet Acacia reads this board daily and laughs at us as they sit here collecting info on how their attackers plan to attack. I know i would. Just something to keep in mind. On another note, I also remember hearing an interview where they were "patching" up the holes in the patent on a constant basis. Keep in mind that whatever is said here is just giving them more ideas to use to patch up their patent before it goes to trial. Weather that's true or not, who knows. New information is always exciting. But there's a time and place for it. Acacia is after the adult industry and you know they're watching the biggest adult webmaster board closely. This is not the place to post this stuff, and right now is not the time to publicize new finds that will give Homegrown a harder fight in the end. Just an opinion and my 2cents. None the less, this is a great find for sure. Nice work.

10-14-2003, 04:25 AM	#109
XXXPhoto Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Driving Range Posts: 27	This fellow seemed to be on the track in early 80s... http://www.chiariglione.org/leonardo/publications/ Sincerely, ~Mark XXXPhoto

10-14-2003, 04:32 AM	#112
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	It seems to me that the defense attorneys could take this information and send it to the patent office, if it in fact proves prior art, and have Acacia's patent revoked. It could easily be shown that the patent was granted without merit.. and I would think that they would have no choice but to pull the patent rights.

10-14-2003, 04:37 AM	#114
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	most likely this goes all the way back to Stanford and DARPA Net, its just a question of finding some evidence of it.

10-14-2003, 04:50 AM	#116
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	in fact, it may prove to be easier to track down some of the people who helped start all this. Most of the people who worked on ARPA and developed ARPANET in the late 60's and early 70's were professors at UCLA, MIT, University of Minnisota, Stanford and other universities. they are probably easy to find. it seems hard to believe that they would not know of very early examples of audio/video on the web... and be able to offer supporting documents that prove it since everything was very well documented.

10-14-2003, 04:52 AM	#118
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	hehe. sorry. i did not read your post. but you are right,... everything is very well documented. its just a question of finding everything. i seriously doubt that their interest stopped at simply sharing documents and it seems quite logical that audio/video would be a natural next progression.

10-14-2003, 05:13 AM	#122
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	i agree... keeping the discussions quiet is a big part of the problem. the biggest part of the problem. Acacia is a publically held company. I would like to know that their shareholders know they are being fucked dry by a bunch of ambulance chasing attorneys on a flimsy case which is facing growing opposition. this shit should be on CNN... not GFY!

10-14-2003, 05:13 AM	#123
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	Hey squirtit, if this works to get them off our backs, then maybe we shhould each send you 5 bucks. Thanks man! __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

10-14-2003, 05:20 AM	#124
fiveyes Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,680	Oh, and one other thing- any promising lead anyone comes across should be forwarded to : Spike @ homegrownvideo.com He isn't able to keep up with everything that happens on the boards and might very well overlook something important otherwise. Be a shame if somebody found exactly what was needed for a key argument and it didn't get forwarded on to the defense team... __________________ <CENTER><A HREF="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/" target="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/images/hob-logosmall.jpg" border="0"></A> <FONT face="Comic Sans MS" SIZE="-1"><I>Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Wet-T, Night Club Action, UpSkirt, Oil Wrestling, Voyeur</I></FONT></CENTER>

10-14-2003, 05:30 AM	#125
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mb?s=ACTG I'm surprised that nobody has posted this GFY link there yet.

10-14-2003, 06:46 AM	#139
Aussie Rebel Blow Me U Geeks Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Maximum Security Posts: 5,108	Great find mate

10-14-2003, 07:07 AM	#147
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	Man I just watched that video ---- thats insane! It talks SPECIFICALLY about cataloging and image/video libraries. It's basic video on demand. I'm eager to see how Acacia is going to dispute this one. I doubt they will just concede even though I think Berman said in one of his interviews something like 'If there is prior art, call us, tell us about it. We want to know about it' ... not an exact quote, but I know he said something to that effect.

10-14-2003, 07:12 AM	#148
Hooper Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A Free America Posts: 2,210	way to go squirtit. that video is a nice find, but i'm certain that impa was aware of the bell labs research months ago. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultplatinum.com/"><img src="http://www.adult.com/wmbanners/10dcash-468x60.gif"></a>