I have to dive into semantics here... you wrote that Hustler and Vivid were in LITIGATION. So they were in court with Acacia? That's what LITIGATION means (i checked with an attorney as well as with the dictionary before i made this statement).

Maybe you meant to write, they were in DISCUSSIONS with Acacia on the licensing issues.

Any maybe the "fighting" was more like "heated discussions".

You also wrote they spent hundres of thousands of dollars on expenses.... maybe it was more like tens of thousands?

Also, that Hustler and Vivid couldn't partake in any activities to "fight" against them?????

THe answers don't matter.... the big players have settled, leaving the rest of the players to fend for themselves...afterall, why would anyone expect a competitor to want to stand up for other competitors.. oh wait, Larry did that before....i guess that's where people get that impression.

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The answers do matter :)


1. They WERE in litigation with Acacia. They were served with a lawsuit quite some time ago and thus litigation began. Might want to check the dictionary again on this one. Litigation has nothing to do with going to court. By definition, it is "To engage in legal proceedings"

2. Hustler and Vivid don't take lawsuits lightly, nor do they settle quickly. They put up quite a costly fight and even during settlement talks, they fought long and hard for terms that they could live with and that would allow their affiliates to feel no pain.

3. I'm not sure if you've ever been in patent litigation before, but just to respond to the initial lawsuit cost more than $10,000. I meant what I said in terms of what they spent. Hustler and Vivid use a team of top attorneys, which results in very large legal fees.

4. I said they originally chose not to join that group due to differences in how to approach the issue, different agendas, different legal teams, etc. Under their licensing agreement, they are now prohibited from funding a lawsuit against Acacia. Trust me.....this is one issue we fought for that we did not win on.

exactly! the defense side has some of those same files you are talking about.

always looking for more, especially non-porn ones (note, a judge and jury will end up watching this stuff, better if it wasn't so graphic)

Anyone in contact with "old school" SYSOP, send them my way so i can chat about their archive of files prior to 1990.


Fight The Patent!

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I understand how you could come to this conclusion, but there are many other reasons a company might settle. Do you really think Hustler and Vivid settled so they could get a discount? In the big picture, how much do you think that would really save them. Trust me...there are many other factors involved.

That is why I've said several times, people should NOT interpret any company settling as a validation of any patent. One has nothing to do with the other. Patents can ONLY be validated or invalidated in a court of law.

Ken you keep asking us to trust you. I have no problem with that once I know your credentials. Care to offer any proof of your part in these proceedings?

:1orglaugh

Maybe more like they were served with letters from Acacia's attorney firm that stated the infringements... and there were several rounds of exchanges on definitions and charges. Unless of course you really meant that a court date was set and they were going to go to court, but before that court date, they settled.

This is where i get my definition for Litigation, where did you get yours?

Black's Law Dictionary (the accepted standard in the industry): Litigation, n. 1. The process of carrying on a lawsuit <the attorney advised his client to make a generous settlement offer in order to avoid litigation>. 2. A lawsuit itself <several litigations pending before the court>. -litigate, vb. -litigatory, litigational.

or

http://www.duhaime.org/dictionary/dict-l.htm


i understand that for most, this seems to be a silly issue of semantics, but the law is all about semantics, and putting twists and spins on issues is all about semantics..


Fight The Patent!

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No, they were not just served with letters. They were served with an actual lawsuit that they were required by law to respond to. That is litigation, anyway you slice it.

Heh, the problem with that is that back then, the only video files worth spending 30 mins downloading (300 baud back then... .3K bits per second) was porn. Good luck finding any non-porn streaming video files that were downloaded back then; I never saw any, but then again, I never looked for any.

BTW, I think your quest for oldschool BBS SYSOPs is a *great* idea, but for testimony only... who the hell has the old floppies from computers that were mothballed/discarded over 17 years ago? And if someone still could get an old system to even boot, would they be able to get their BBS to work again in a court of law to prove Prior Art (and disprove later tampering)?

It's an uphill battle against well funded and very smart extortionists, but it is a good battle, and one that is historically and IMO morally correct. :thumbsup

that is where my money lies :thumbsup

so who is playing judas among us?

50 settling sponsors

hehehe
all open books mean is for those webmasters who don't like to pay taxes, you will have to claim taxes on all money made from those companies


Or at least it would be a smart idea too anyways

Soon, the question might be quicker answered by asking who is not.

not me, im too worried about slangin crack to worry about a bunch of net geeks :)

I think the point being made here is there was no "litigation" in an actual courtroom in front of a judge.

Also can you honestly say Hustler and Vivid spent 100s of thousands on this? Honestly?

If so then maybe you shouldn't rely on the advice of a 1st amendment attorney for your patent litigation. Next time try getting advice the top Patent firm in the country.

This industry blows farts every day now it seems.

Hmm... are you stating libel againt Ken? I am not a lawyer, but a bird on a wire told me that Acacia has a patent on Libel as well. Prior Art might not mean shit if your pockets are deep enough.

Then again, this post is a crude attempt at humor, satire, and parody. <------ That's for the lawyers at Acacia who are reading this post. So is this: :321GFY

No, I can't imagine them doing any "less" for the industry. This is about as "little" as anyone could ever possibly do.

Except for maybe driving over to each of our houses and taking a shot gun and blowing up our hard drives. I'm sure that's next, though. That part will probably come out when the rest of the secret settlement gets released by someone's scorned mistress or pissed off employee.

To date CE has not helped, nor do I believe they are allowed to by Acacia. Hustler and Vivid are most likely prevented from aiding in challenging the patents too.

I don't know where this popular misconception started but I would like to put an end to it for once and for all.

I think we know where this popular misconception that CE is helping in your noble fight started Far-L :Graucho

Sometimes you just have to read these posts and laugh. :1orglaugh

What about Cashquest? Did they settle?

:warning

quote:
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"We will still stand financially behind those who are fighting the patent, which is lot more than we can say for most of the industry that has not been served with a lawsuit."


Sounds great.

I wish it were true.

Software patents really suck. I cannot think of a worse kind of patent then this.

I would really love to get my hands on the stupid woman who approved this stupid patent. :mad:

It's not a software patent, they didn't create any product.

It's a process patent, just describes the idea of digitizing, compression, storing, transmitting, and viewing of digital audio/video files.



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does the agreement with acacia say that individuals working for hustler or vivid can also not contribute money? for example, can larry flynt or brianna banks contribute on a personal level?

I am hoping that they will contribute on a personal level .. also.. i can see the situation where the company could contribute to a cause, just not be made public...



Fight the Patent!

2% doesnt bother me if thats where it stopped thats the cost of doing business. Heres what scares me and I cant believe the MBA's at those two companies didnt think about this. First do they think, these will be the only people to come out of the woodwork with vague patents now that this company is having success ? Also what is to stop Acacia from charging 25% or any other amount in the future? If I am correct those licenses arent set terms forever ,they have to be renewed.

Is Hustler and Vivid using this to eliminate competetion? what's next? Acacia going after affiliates to scare them away from using other affiliate programs?

i'm not trying to stir shit up, but the statement "right business decision" just kinda got me thinking.

tony - don't let Acacia's strategy allow you to assume they are successful. Based upon their last quarterly financial they are FAR from successful. Lets see how big these other settlements are for them in their next quarterly statement. I bet they aren't very big.

Acacia has a lot coming to them if they think they're going to get 2% of this industries gross, that is TOTALLY unreasonable licensing fees, especially considering their ONLY possible infridgers are content providers and video streamers (which don't make up a majority of the industry revenue). Also don't assume they signed a 2% gross deal with anyone they've settled with.

All I am saying is do NOT assume anything... :) Especially when so many smoke and mirrors are involved!

Marc De: We are a content provider and we do not infringe.

Far-L - I don't believe that you are either... Its the opinion of MANY that you aren't, all I'm saying is the POSSIBLE folks they could POSSIBLY sign deals with. hehe Reread my post, its may have been a bit ambiguous...

A lot of energy is being wasted here.

Ken is, if anyone isn't aware of the fact, the WebQuest PR hack that was hired some 2 years ago by Larry Flynt Productions to handle their affairs on the web. He's done a great job, but that's to be expected from a PR hack.

And, he's doing what any good PR hack would do, putting the best possible spin on his employer's actions. I don't have to point out that he's doing a great job of that, two years experience shows for itself.

However... Who gives a fuck what a PR hack says? Arguing with a PR hack is like wrestling a pig- you both get dirty but only one of you will enjoy it.

Only thing that happened today is two more companies decided that they'd sign a license agreement with Acacia. Doesn't matter who they are- there'll be more that make the same decision, both smaller and larger. Doesn't matter what the terms were- it is obvious that they were agreeable enough for everyone involved. Doesn't matter what they spent to arrive at that decision- it's their purse.

Only thing that does matter is the fight does continue. Energy directed in any other place is not fighting,

it's wrestling with pigs.

Support <A HREF="http://www.impai.org" target="_blank">IMPA</A> to protect our use of on-line media.

Ken...All I read in your post was blah blah blah fucking blah

Larry Flynt has always stuck up for his rights. I can not believe this was his decision. WTF did his balls shrivel like rasins. I dont care what you (ken) has to say. Larry Flint has a computer and I am sure he could figure out how to post a thread or have someone show him lol. Is he to good to talk to the adult webmasters about his decision? Plenty of important rich people explain there actions every week on here!

I for one thought Larry Flynt might be one the to take this guys down. How much money does Larry Flint have? I bet he has plenty to last him and all his heirs for generations.

When you say they did it to protect affilates...that is just total BS

When they gave in...it put 1000's at risk. Did you see how much their stock went up? That just put millions into the pockets of this guy. IF Hustler and Vivid would have hired the best patent lawyers and pushed counter suits on them...The stock would have went down and took millions from them.

Think about it...dont cluck like a chicken and say you are a guard dog.

Deeprub :2 cents:

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Marc De: I know you know that but just making sure everyone in the nosebleed seats got it too...

:Graucho :winkwink: :thumbsup

Taking into account the recent news, your statement is right on.

Flynt is sticking up for HIS rights... so all that effort that history has recorded and so many webmasters remember of his fight to protect free speech and the adult industry, could now be interpreted as he was doing it for his OWN business and his OWN reasons.

Why not continue that fight with this patent abuse case? especially if someone over there talked to me, I could explain about prior art, and why so many tech heads like me find this patent claim to be absurd.

So if you put it in this context, no one should be surprised or mad that they settled. It's in the best interest of HIS company, HIS business, HIS agenda.

I hope I am wrong, and I will test the waters starting on Wednesday when Fight The Patent . com releases it's own answer to fighting against patent abuse cases.

Stay tuned...



Fight The Patent!

And pigs can fly. WEEEEEEEEE! :1orglaugh

Please don't insult our intelligence :1orglaugh