With all the strict VISA regs, do you think 50/50 Partnerships will resurface ? - GoFuckYourself.com

J.R. · 09-23-2003, 08:49 PM

These Visa chargeback rules are very serious shit.

I was talking with Rand @ Epoch today and he mentioned that
we may see a few less sites real soon if they cannot get
below the 1% threshold.

Take for instance Boob Dollars, my program. We only had
7 total charge backs from the last 30 days. Our chargeback
ration for the month is .78%.

It's below the minimum but, pretty fucking close none the less.

So, my question is:

Do you think Partnerships will resurface ?

It's alot safer to run a 50/50 style program then running
any pay per join program.

Fraudulent webmasters usually stay
away from 'Partnerships' and webmasters who send shitty traffic are less likely to send shitty members.

It's a toss up either way. Pro's and Cons to both concepts.

My

Sly_RJ · 09-23-2003, 08:51 PM

Nah, but I think you guys need to cover your ass and close up "open affiliate applications". Close it up. Get rid of the fraudsters. Start requiring references, domains, identification, anything like that.

As an affiliate, I would love to see the fraud fuckers go away.

09-23-2003, 08:52 PM

I still can't believe that it is so fucking easy to charge back. A friend told me about a surfer that had signed up for a 3 month membership, renewed that and charged back after the 4th month without a blink of an eye.

Fucking pathetic.

detoxed · 09-23-2003, 08:53 PM

You know anyone who has high chargebacks? I just dont see how its possible. If anyone needs tips ICQ me

J.R. · 09-23-2003, 08:59 PM

I just removed several countries completely from being
able to signup with us.

All of them are from Europe, Canada is close on that list
as there is alot of cheaters from there as well.

Hell, there is a credit card fraud guy working alot of
you now from New York.

These guys are not dumb, they send GOOD traffic and get GOOD conversions, you will NEVER know that they are sending you
bullshit joins until after you paid them.

I watch every affiliate closely, I work with MPA2 and EPOCH, CCBill tech support to catch the cheaters and stop them
before they get too far.

Remember, a cheating & fruadulent webmaster can fuck your
VISA account real quick.

Stud Money · 09-23-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

It's alot safer to run a 50/50 style program then running any pay per join program.

See Sig

JSA Matt · 09-23-2003, 10:25 PM

I thought this ratio only applies if you have 100 chargebacks or more?

JSA Matt · 09-23-2003, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.R.
Remember, a cheating & fruadulent webmaster can fuck your
VISA account real quick.

darnit · 09-23-2003, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JSA Matt
I thought this ratio only applies if you have 100 chargebacks or more?

my understanding as well.....

FUCKuPAYme · 09-23-2003, 10:37 PM

If you don't have over 100 Chargebacks in a month
don't stress.

just divide your domains

fang · 09-23-2003, 10:40 PM

I won't use 50/50 anymore unless it has a NO trial tour...

the indigo · 09-23-2003, 11:04 PM

I have a hard time believing Boobs Dollars only do 900 sigups per month?

Anyway, like the other said, you need at least 100 chargebacks to start getting nervous.

All the big sponsors pushing enough sells to get over 100 chargebacks monthly are big piece of shit IMHO anyway. (except some)

Sly_RJ · 09-23-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the indigo
I have a hard time believing Boobs Dollars only do 900 sigups per month?

Haha I was thinking the same thing.

FUCKuPAYme · 09-23-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the indigo
I have a hard time believing Boobs Dollars only do 900 sigups per month?

Anyway, like the other said, you need at least 100 chargebacks to start getting nervous.

All the big sponsors pushing enough sells to get over 100 chargebacks monthly are big piece of shit IMHO anyway. (except some)

everyone bashes the big sponsors maybe they should stop sponsoring everything. like parties and this board.

no big sponsors means this industry is fucked

rowan · 09-23-2003, 11:16 PM

Visa exempts you from 1% if you are under 100 chargebacks per month, but what about your processor? You may still have problems if they decide that a bunch of small sites at 1.5% or 2% are going to hurt their average chargeback levels too much...

Lane · 09-23-2003, 11:19 PM

i think the site owners are way more responsible for the chargebacks than affiliates are

Dax · 09-23-2003, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rowan
Visa exempts you from 1% if you are under 100 chargebacks per month, but what about your processor? You may still have problems if they decide that a bunch of small sites at 1.5% or 2% are going to hurt their average chargeback levels too much...

No....

That is why Visa has our info.. cuz it applies to single accounts not to the biller... if it was a the biller level then why would visa care about our sites... ?

the indigo · 09-23-2003, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FUCKuPAYme

no big sponsors means this industry is fucked

Uh no.

It would means less cross-sells, shitty member areas, and moronic tactics to fuck around with our clients.

= Less problems with Visa and Mastercards
= Less PPS; Less Newbies
= Less fucking troubles, and more money to smaller paysites dedicated to their customers.

I don't go to conventions and parties so beuh bye

Dax · 09-23-2003, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JSA Matt
I thought this ratio only applies if you have 100 chargebacks or more?

It does!

From what i have heard this rule was implemented to the big companies that do well over 100 sign ups a day.... and obviously more than 4 charge backs per day.

OY · 09-24-2003, 03:15 PM

There should be no doubt about the fact that partnership programs are going to be the main type of program in the future. The reason is very simple. Webmaster fraud is still unfortunately very high overall and the place the fraudulent webmasters operate is in pay per signup programs.

However, that does not mean that there won't be any pay per signup programs left. Only the serious ones will be left standing. the ones using every tool available to weed out the fraud webmaster out there will be in charge - be pro-active, talk to your processor, use tools available (i.e. MPA2 ) and of course talk to your affiliates. Closely!

Our industry is going to change over the next few months. Let there be no doubt about that. But no need to worry - I think it will be a good change. And to tell you the truth, I personally think partnership programs are the ones that will have the most webmasters left standing. At least for the medium to small webmasters...

All gooooood ! ! !

Kimmykim · 09-24-2003, 03:45 PM

Quite frankly resellers on any level are the majority of the cause of chargebacks.

Intentional fraud, and unintentional misrepresentation of the end product are WAY more prevalent than a smart surfer who's a chronic chargeback waiting to happen, for the simple reason that once a guy charges back with a processor he's not going to be able to use that card to buy again. No one is going to go and get multiple cards so they can join porn sites and charge back.

And as the PPS programs start to tighten the reigns, the cheaters will begin to infiltrate the recurring programs with a vengeance. No, they won't be able to get 40 bucks a pop for cheating but they will be able to get half that in most cases and if that's the best they can do, you better believe they are going to find ways to do it.

Right now the threshhold is 100 chargebacks per month to qualify for the breakout list and fine assessment on a per master account basis. But that's not saying that they could not decide in 4 months to lower that threshhold to 50 or 25 or even 5 cb's per month to qualify sites for punitive action.

If you plan to keep resellers around (at least as long as you are able to) I would suggest that you start screening them on an individual basis -- ask for a copy of their id, hold their payouts for an extra 30 days on the first check, an extra 15 on the second, etc. People who are in this as a long term business can and should understand these measures, while those looking to burn you for a quick buck will steer clear of your program and toast someone else's ratios. I would also start asking for recommendations from other programs they push, and either get copies of their stats from them or the sponsor with their permission.

Things are going to get tough, like it or not.

I expect by Dec 1 there will be some ugly fines and perhaps a termination or two that will set a ringingly clear and loud example.

"Can you hear me now?"

Snake Doctor · 09-24-2003, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

"Can you hear me now?"

Good

Snake Doctor · 09-24-2003, 05:25 PM

KK has a good point there.

Hell, there are TGP's out there that make you provide references from other TGP's before they'll list your gallery. And that's just so you won't fuck over their bookmarkers.......what kind of measures should you take to make sure no one fucks with your ability to process credit cards?????

Make a webmaster send you copies of their ID's and provide references from other sponsor programs before they're allowed to start sending traffic.

If they're a brand new webmaster with no references, then you make them wait 30-45 days before you cut their first check.

NBDesign · 09-24-2003, 05:58 PM

I was warned away form per sign up and only do the 50/50 rev share....

JasonB · 09-24-2003, 11:31 PM

If it's a good site, you'll make more with 50/50 anyway.

sweetcuties · 09-25-2003, 12:42 AM

Wouldn't bother me 1 bit... I make $$ with or without affiliates

liquidmoe · 09-25-2003, 12:44 AM

There was certainly a lot of fraud before which is forcefully being cleaned up either by the programs or by the new regulations. I've always liked 50/50 partnership programs, but if a site can't retain members you dont exactly get your money's worth promoting them.

butcherboy · 09-25-2003, 12:48 AM

I think to be affiliate will become not so easy - only for honest and trustful webmasters... Otherwise one jerk can crash your merchant account...

Yanks_Todd · 09-25-2003, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oystein
There should be no doubt about the fact that partnership programs are going to be the main type of program in the future. The reason is very simple. Webmaster fraud is still unfortunately very high overall and the place the fraudulent webmasters operate is in pay per signup programs.

However, that does not mean that there won't be any pay per signup programs left. Only the serious ones will be left standing. the ones using every tool available to weed out the fraud webmaster out there will be in charge - be pro-active, talk to your processor, use tools available (i.e. MPA2 ) and of course talk to your affiliates. Closely!

Our industry is going to change over the next few months. Let there be no doubt about that. But no need to worry - I think it will be a good change. And to tell you the truth, I personally think partnership programs are the ones that will have the most webmasters left standing. At least for the medium to small webmasters...

All gooooood ! ! !

Hell Yeah!!!!

BANK

Yanks_Todd · 09-25-2003, 01:07 AM

Oh Yeah, Check the SIG

MetaMan · 09-25-2003, 01:08 AM

i always only promote % better in the long run if you are sending like 1 singup/day easily.

Interlude · 09-25-2003, 01:58 AM

I wonder what sort of effect it will have on the larger empires. Unlike last year's registration fees which only really fucked over small or solo operations, this chargeback shit really does have the potential to affect the big guys. Of course, where there's a will, there's a way.

Yanks_Todd · 10-10-2003, 11:21 PM

Matt_WildCash · 10-10-2003, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JSA Matt
I thought this ratio only applies if you have 100 chargebacks or more?

RRRED · 10-10-2003, 11:42 PM

I'm with ya on the referrals from other program owners. Over and over again I've seen MAJOR hell avoided by simple communication between those who are known as legitimate businesses in it for the long run.

OY · 10-12-2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RRRED
I'm with ya on the referrals from other program owners. Over and over again I've seen MAJOR hell avoided by simple communication between those who are known as legitimate businesses in it for the long run.

True dat...

Donnie Gangsta · 10-12-2003, 08:10 PM

3rd party processors are a fucking scam. They want to make you believe you can't function without them, but with current Card Association regulations, they are redundant. They just won't admit it..

No one can give any good reasons why a company who does more than 100 chargebacks per month would be better off getting fucked out of 12-15% by some rip off company with generic customer service that is not specific to your site. Each account is responsible for their own transactions, so why do people still endorse this façade of umbrella protection? It's bullshit.

NewSlava · 10-23-2003, 11:56 PM

Hi

"That these chek: stopped payment, EBANKA take money back.
Acc. 004745 Cyber World Media # 2196 $900.00 09/05/03 EBANKA"

Why?

09-23-2003, 08:49 PM	#1
J.R. WantBoobs.com Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Calif & Washington Posts: 3,472	With all the strict VISA regs, do you think 50/50 Partnerships will resurface ? These Visa chargeback rules are very serious shit. I was talking with Rand @ Epoch today and he mentioned that we may see a few less sites real soon if they cannot get below the 1% threshold. Take for instance Boob Dollars, my program. We only had 7 total charge backs from the last 30 days. Our chargeback ration for the month is .78%. It's below the minimum but, pretty fucking close none the less. So, my question is: Do you think Partnerships will resurface ? It's alot safer to run a 50/50 style program then running any pay per join program. Fraudulent webmasters usually stay away from 'Partnerships' and webmasters who send shitty traffic are less likely to send shitty members. It's a toss up either way. Pro's and Cons to both concepts. My

09-23-2003, 08:51 PM	#2
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	Nah, but I think you guys need to cover your ass and close up "open affiliate applications". Close it up. Get rid of the fraudsters. Start requiring references, domains, identification, anything like that. As an affiliate, I would love to see the fraud fuckers go away. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

09-23-2003, 10:37 PM	#10
FUCKuPAYme Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: LA Posts: 1,023	If you don't have over 100 Chargebacks in a month don't stress. just divide your domains __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

09-23-2003, 10:40 PM	#11
fang Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,189	I won't use 50/50 anymore unless it has a NO trial tour... __________________ Niche Sites and Reality Sites That = Big $$$ Get Your Share Now

09-23-2003, 11:19 PM	#16
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	i think the site owners are way more responsible for the chargebacks than affiliates are __________________

09-23-2003, 08:52 PM	#3
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	I still can't believe that it is so fucking easy to charge back. A friend told me about a surfer that had signed up for a 3 month membership, renewed that and charged back after the 4th month without a blink of an eye. Fucking pathetic.

09-23-2003, 08:53 PM	#4
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	You know anyone who has high chargebacks? I just dont see how its possible. If anyone needs tips ICQ me

09-23-2003, 08:59 PM	#5
J.R. WantBoobs.com Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Calif & Washington Posts: 3,472	I just removed several countries completely from being able to signup with us. All of them are from Europe, Canada is close on that list as there is alot of cheaters from there as well. Hell, there is a credit card fraud guy working alot of you now from New York. These guys are not dumb, they send GOOD traffic and get GOOD conversions, you will NEVER know that they are sending you bullshit joins until after you paid them. I watch every affiliate closely, I work with MPA2 and EPOCH, CCBill tech support to catch the cheaters and stop them before they get too far. Remember, a cheating & fruadulent webmaster can fuck your VISA account real quick.

09-23-2003, 10:25 PM	#7
JSA Matt So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 5,464	I thought this ratio only applies if you have 100 chargebacks or more?

09-23-2003, 11:04 PM	#12
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	I have a hard time believing Boobs Dollars only do 900 sigups per month? Anyway, like the other said, you need at least 100 chargebacks to start getting nervous. All the big sponsors pushing enough sells to get over 100 chargebacks monthly are big piece of shit IMHO anyway. (except some)

09-23-2003, 11:16 PM	#15
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Visa exempts you from 1% if you are under 100 chargebacks per month, but what about your processor? You may still have problems if they decide that a bunch of small sites at 1.5% or 2% are going to hurt their average chargeback levels too much...

09-24-2003, 03:15 PM	#20
OY Industry Pioneer Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA/EU/ASIA Posts: 5,401	There should be no doubt about the fact that partnership programs are going to be the main type of program in the future. The reason is very simple. Webmaster fraud is still unfortunately very high overall and the place the fraudulent webmasters operate is in pay per signup programs. However, that does not mean that there won't be any pay per signup programs left. Only the serious ones will be left standing. the ones using every tool available to weed out the fraud webmaster out there will be in charge - be pro-active, talk to your processor, use tools available (i.e. MPA2 ) and of course talk to your affiliates. Closely! Our industry is going to change over the next few months. Let there be no doubt about that. But no need to worry - I think it will be a good change. And to tell you the truth, I personally think partnership programs are the ones that will have the most webmasters left standing. At least for the medium to small webmasters... All gooooood ! ! ! __________________ Around since 1997, and the company that introduced "Cascading Billing" in MPA3® Affiliate Management and Tracking Software Outsourcing With A Norwegian Twist - NordBits - Inquire within!

09-24-2003, 03:45 PM	#21
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Quite frankly resellers on any level are the majority of the cause of chargebacks. Intentional fraud, and unintentional misrepresentation of the end product are WAY more prevalent than a smart surfer who's a chronic chargeback waiting to happen, for the simple reason that once a guy charges back with a processor he's not going to be able to use that card to buy again. No one is going to go and get multiple cards so they can join porn sites and charge back. And as the PPS programs start to tighten the reigns, the cheaters will begin to infiltrate the recurring programs with a vengeance. No, they won't be able to get 40 bucks a pop for cheating but they will be able to get half that in most cases and if that's the best they can do, you better believe they are going to find ways to do it. Right now the threshhold is 100 chargebacks per month to qualify for the breakout list and fine assessment on a per master account basis. But that's not saying that they could not decide in 4 months to lower that threshhold to 50 or 25 or even 5 cb's per month to qualify sites for punitive action. If you plan to keep resellers around (at least as long as you are able to) I would suggest that you start screening them on an individual basis -- ask for a copy of their id, hold their payouts for an extra 30 days on the first check, an extra 15 on the second, etc. People who are in this as a long term business can and should understand these measures, while those looking to burn you for a quick buck will steer clear of your program and toast someone else's ratios. I would also start asking for recommendations from other programs they push, and either get copies of their stats from them or the sponsor with their permission. Things are going to get tough, like it or not. I expect by Dec 1 there will be some ugly fines and perhaps a termination or two that will set a ringingly clear and loud example. "Can you hear me now?"

09-24-2003, 05:25 PM	#23
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	KK has a good point there. Hell, there are TGP's out there that make you provide references from other TGP's before they'll list your gallery. And that's just so you won't fuck over their bookmarkers.......what kind of measures should you take to make sure no one fucks with your ability to process credit cards????? Make a webmaster send you copies of their ID's and provide references from other sponsor programs before they're allowed to start sending traffic. If they're a brand new webmaster with no references, then you make them wait 30-45 days before you cut their first check. __________________ sig too big

09-24-2003, 05:58 PM	#24
NBDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The other side of Hell Posts: 5,814	I was warned away form per sign up and only do the 50/50 rev share.... __________________ Use Lensman's program and get the most for your hard earned traffic. Get Heidi for your site Here. Lots of sets to choose from. She makes a great Addition to any site. Grab one Grab All.

09-24-2003, 11:31 PM	#25
JasonB Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,183	If it's a good site, you'll make more with 50/50 anyway.

09-25-2003, 12:42 AM	#26
sweetcuties Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 5,859	Wouldn't bother me 1 bit... I make $$ with or without affiliates __________________

09-25-2003, 12:44 AM	#27
liquidmoe Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 4,994	There was certainly a lot of fraud before which is forcefully being cleaned up either by the programs or by the new regulations. I've always liked 50/50 partnership programs, but if a site can't retain members you dont exactly get your money's worth promoting them.

09-25-2003, 12:48 AM	#28
butcherboy Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Planet E. Posts: 183	I think to be affiliate will become not so easy - only for honest and trustful webmasters... Otherwise one jerk can crash your merchant account... __________________ ---some wise words goes here--

09-25-2003, 01:07 AM	#30
Yanks_Todd Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Valencia Posts: 2,490	Oh Yeah, Check the SIG __________________ Todd Spaits - Co-founder -YanksCash Premium ad-packages available - Skype for details - tmspaits

09-25-2003, 01:08 AM	#31
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	i always only promote % better in the long run if you are sending like 1 singup/day easily.

09-25-2003, 01:58 AM	#32
Interlude Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: State of Denial Posts: 1,147	I wonder what sort of effect it will have on the larger empires. Unlike last year's registration fees which only really fucked over small or solo operations, this chargeback shit really does have the potential to affect the big guys. Of course, where there's a will, there's a way.

10-10-2003, 11:21 PM	#33
Yanks_Todd Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Valencia Posts: 2,490	__________________ Todd Spaits - Co-founder -YanksCash Premium ad-packages available - Skype for details - tmspaits

10-10-2003, 11:42 PM	#35
RRRED Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: WA Posts: 6,754	I'm with ya on the referrals from other program owners. Over and over again I've seen MAJOR hell avoided by simple communication between those who are known as legitimate businesses in it for the long run.

10-12-2003, 08:10 PM	#37
Donnie Gangsta Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,104	3rd party processors are a fucking scam. They want to make you believe you can't function without them, but with current Card Association regulations, they are redundant. They just won't admit it.. No one can give any good reasons why a company who does more than 100 chargebacks per month would be better off getting fucked out of 12-15% by some rip off company with generic customer service that is not specific to your site. Each account is responsible for their own transactions, so why do people still endorse this façade of umbrella protection? It's bullshit.

10-23-2003, 11:56 PM	#38
NewSlava Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Russia Posts: 1	Hi "That these chek: stopped payment, EBANKA take money back. Acc. 004745 Cyber World Media # 2196 $900.00 09/05/03 EBANKA" Why?