anyone who thinks they know anything when it comes to our existance is retarded.

i've said it in other threads and i'll say it here again...

the fact that no one, not even my own mother standing in front of me physically, can prove to me that they exist. i could be an alien from a true reality dreaming of this thing called the "universe" made up of many planets and being alive on a particular planet as a human called earth. you can punch me shout at me, etc... but you can't prove it.

its far from "reality" and probably isn't true, but no one can prove it wrong. and for that reason, no one should ever take a 100% solid stance.

and where's your proof? nobody understand how life can emerge from nothing.... only incomplete theories... and many top scientifics admit it

what you are saying has a point, but seems to be very farfetched
watched the matrix too many times? :1orglaugh
but yes, this thought has crossed my mind as well :thumbsup

why do you have freak-boy in your sig?

Name one.

there was a scientist who, once, was able to CREATE life (Bacteria) by simulating the earths primitive stages in a sealed environment. He put electric shocks for the lightning, UV rays for sunlight, etc, and after a few days of procedure, he created 2 or 3 bacteria. After that, those bacteria combined themselves into creating a more complex one.

My bioligy teacher taught me this a few years back but I remember it VERY clearly. if anybody has a link to details about this experiment, plz forward it to me

If you ever took an embrology course you would not question evolution. Ontogony recapitulates phylogeny.

There is rather conclusive evidence of evolution, there is no evidence for a diety. If you are a fundementalist the earth has only been around a few thousand years and the fossil record is a fraud.

As Mark Twain said if the earth and the heavens were created within a week of each other a few thousand years ago why can we see light from stars that took 50,000 years to get here. That as from Mark Twain's rewrite of the bible, a good read.

The Wachowski brothers know the answer.

To the best of my knowledge all of those that cannot explain abiogenesis...which to my knowledge includes every scientist in the field. They take it on a leap of faith that it happened and work from that point on. A leap of faith similar to the leap of faith that creationists take.

That's very interesting, I'd like to see more about that as well.

That is not correct. The only thing created was something similar to the "primordial soup" amino acids etc.

Damn. Just in case you hadn't embarrassed yourself enough already, you come back for more. All signs do <i>not</i> point to it. Scientists believe that chimps and humans evolved from a common ancestor, as bhutocracy already pointed out. No scientist believes that humans evolved from chimps. Go and find the nearest library. It'll do you and the rest of us a world of good.

uh, actually... we can go with probabilities.... and they are at 99.999999999% that what you are reading is real! And if you are dreaming... that means that you are still something... with a brain... living... And forget about our mind being some king of fuel/energy... thats fiction and ridiculous.. As for being lab rat experiementing some insanely elaborate software... mmh life is WAY to complex to even dream that something like this would be possible... and btw... why would they create a software where people die and atrocity exist...?

No evidence? Put your head back in the sand. No proof, perhaps. But there is certainly evidence. And even the vatican has said that the 7 day creation isn't to be taken so literally. To say that you don't believe the evidence is one thing. To deny it even exists is stupid. It's evidence. It's not proof.

Video games=software...have you ever seen or played some of the video games? :)

or have you ever thought that you are the only real person on the planet?
that everybody else lives to "Feed you" ?

its a wierd point of view, but its a POV nonetheless

and for chodadog, stfu hater
I am allowed making a fool of myself and it seems as if you are the only one flaming me, everybody here is here to learn, I believe 100% that we are from evolution, thats my belief,I can argue it all I want, and you can refute me. not start a fight about it

if you dont like it, leave :321GFY

software/program/matrix or whatever you want to call it

Believe what you want. Just don't post a bunch of bollocks. That, or keep your mouth shut.

And you win the prize...evidence is not proof...even overwhelming evidence is not proof. Reasonable...logical assumptions...yes...but not proof. There is not any proof of abiogensis but scientists must believe...have faith...that it happened...or their theories about evolution are greatly weakened...if not totally incorrect.

What sort of 'proof' would you be willing to accept, considering this happened around 4.5 billion years ago and one can not time travel?

If you are really interested why not read something like this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

"why would they create a software where people die and atrocity exist...?"

I thought I was being amusing.

actually, based on our reality, that would be too complex... but then, they might have given us very limited intelligence... :1orglaugh

anyhow, if there has been a Creation, whether God is a programmer or some sort of Angel... the result is the same...

oh sorry, I missed that one! :1orglaugh

Empirical proof is the only real proof and even empirical proof is sometimes argued. I do not see where that book explains the process of abiogenesis.

No i'm saying study all you want and make up your own mind, but don't act like its FACT. This is a belief. You go into this believing in a god or no god at the start and shape your ideas around this. Sciencists do not discover fossils and think "hrmm now does this discovery prove evolution or creationism?, nope they go "ok my belief is that we evolved so how does this find give proof of this as since the fact that we are here already proves i'm already correct I just need to find evidence to tell others." "Believing in God takes the same faith as believing in the big bang.

Personally I think there is a god and he is hands off doesn't care. I sure as hell don't believe we evolved from apes, think about this, we with all our science don't know how to create life. We have no idea what makes something live or how to create a being that lives, all we can do is fuck around with DNA of already existing animals and see what happens. So with all our knowledge we can't create shit but so many people believe the human body in all its amazing ways evolved into such a perfect form. I think not

The fact is Joe...there is not any proof...nada...that abiogenesis happened other than some scientists (those that do not believe in creationism) believe that it did happen as they believe the proof is in the pudding..."there is life...we are here". There is not any proof of creationism...oh wait..."there is life...we are here".

I'm no expert in theories of abiogenesis, largely because in the area of science I am only self educated and read what interests me. But I do know this: there IS voluminous evidence for large scale evolution and natural selection generally. Only abiogenesis is easier to believe than creation because it doesn't involve the supernatural... of which there is no evidence.

Beyond blind faith what evidence is there that there is a god? Old text that is not even accurate archeologically? You indeed must have your head in the sand if you believe the religous mumbo jumbo

Wel...there is enough proof for me to believe that evolution has happened...though there are parts of the chain that are still missing in total. I...at least at this point in time...do not believe in creationism. Neither is factually correct...or factually incorrect.

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.
The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you; We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

God listened very patiently and kindly to the man. After the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this? Let's say we have a man-making contest." To which the scientist replied, "Okay, great!" But, God added, "now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam." The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

God looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt."

abiogenesis has NOTHING to do with evolution and vice versa.
evolution is what happens once a group of molecules are able to replicate themselves. It's a process that happens once there is life and is totally independant of abiogensis.
"God" or *shudder* aliens could have created everything and evolution still takes place.

science doesn't have bias, interepretation has bias. Also science can be bad, i.e experiments to prove or disprove an idea can be poorly designed.

Evolution has obviously been one of the most contentious, rigourously tested theories there is. It has stood the test of time in science for a reason. There is not a better rational explanation.

:1orglaugh

I miss that show

You are correct about evolution once life has come into being...but in the case of those scientists that are not creationists...they "believe" that abiogenesis is the method of life coming into being...thus the beginning of evolution.

this is true.
just had to re-iterate it's not a problem with evolution.
Anyways I believe in abiogenesis as It is personally more likely than a big guy in the sky or aliens wasting a perfectly good resource of a planet.

like 99% to .99999% to .00001%

unless you consider dorment bacteria on an asteroid an "alien", but that still falls under abiogenesis anyways.

The difference being that abiogenesis is a naturalistic process whereas creation by a 'god' is a supernatural act. This is an important distinction.

In my 33 years of oserving the world around me I have been led to the conclusion that we live in a completely naturalistic world. I have never experienced nor witnessed a 'supernatural' event first hand. Nor have I heard a story of a supernatural event that could not be explained away by naturalistic means. As a consequence, I believe that the 'supernatural' as many like to call it is in fact imagined or deluded. Subsequently I have no belief in supernatural beings, making a belief in a 'god' impossible for me.

I do reserve the right to alter my views on this matter should I one day witness water being turned into wine etc. I will not, however, be holding my breath.

I would also like to state that arguing with those who believe in God (or the supernatural generally) is impossible as they can conveniently explain things away (i.e. How are we to know the ways of God) with no regard for logic or common sense.

And arguing with those that won't believe in god, unfortunately, has a very sad ending if their "logic" was mistaken.

And THAT, my friend, is common sense. :)

I didnt read any pots...but the answer is EVOLUTION!

didn't require empirical proof of WMD's :glugglug