A George Bush Rant - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

LadyMischief · 09-12-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female

Amen.

I'll see your amen and meet it with another Amen

*insert virtual handshake here* :P

Furious_Female · 09-12-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyMischief

I'll see your amen and meet it with another Amen *insert virtual handshake here* :P

::shakes hand::

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 10:32 AM

Can we see you two kiss and make up.... perferably without your clothes on

sorry, could not resist...

Furious_Female · 09-12-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Can we see you two kiss and make up.... perferably without your clothes on

sorry, could not resist...

12clicks · 09-12-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

I think we are taking apples and oranges here my friend.. there is a big difference.

No, we're not.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
I am talking about factories in small towns where people have worked ALL THEIR LIVES, know nothing else and there are not enough openings for 500 - 1000 people laid off.

oh, so if I own a business in a small town I lose my right to run it the way I see fit? this isn't a communist country my friend. If there's no job where you live, move.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
for what.. because some greedy bastard wanted another company under his belt and will stop at nothing to get it including paying WAY TOO MUCH for a company knowing that they will be putting hundreds and thousands of people out of work.

ahhh, so if you're rich and successful than you're a gready bastard but if your part of the overpaid union that drives a company into making harsh decisions, you're just the "working man"
what drivel.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
What are these people to do.... go on welfare?

why is it always "hand me a job or I go on welfare" with you liberals? I just don't get it.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Where does that money come from? Us the tax payer... so who wins? The greedy bastard who got his token company and made his money... who looses? The worker and me, the tax payer who now has to support these people.

again, you equate success with greed. sad really.
There should be no welfare and no unemployment. you want to see people work? stop giving them fucking money.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Bleeding heart? No... Just tired of having to pay for rich boys and their toys.

It's sad that when you see someone not working you blame a successful business owner for not *giving* him a job but you don't say shit about the guy not going out and getting a job.
well, typical liberal thinking at work.

Mr.Fiction · 09-12-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

May Iraqis want the US there. Look at he first poll conducted in Baghdad:

Yeah, and Saddam won the last Iraqi election with 100% of the vote.

12clicks · 09-12-2003, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by directfiesta
And the Gulf War was the US also. You guys have been busy.... History must be wrong of citing the UN with about 50 REAL countries, and US paying about 10% of the cost...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amazing how lazy you are 12Shits... You really need links to prove that the Gulf War was a UN operation with major allies...

Oh well, here goes to educate the dumbs:

oooooooooo

The decision comes down after 4 a.m. The United Nations declares, for only the third time in its history, that force will be used against Iraq.

http://archives.cbc.ca/400d.asp?id=1-71-593-3109\

ahahahaha, silly canadian. the US went to the UN and *told* them (as a courtesy) that we were attacking iraq. backed into a corner, they agreed to go along. nothing more.

ooooooooo

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
The last major U.S. war, the original Persian Gulf War in 1991, was a different matter. As part of a much larger international coalition, the United States successfully raised almost all of the approximately $61 billion cost through international contributions.

incorrect, again, as usual.
"""The cost of the war to the United States was calculated by Congress to be $61.1 billion; two-thirds of that amount was paid by Kuwait, Japan and Saudi-Arabia. """
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#Cost
pretending that canada or any other "much larger international coalition" as you put it paid for dick, is again, a direct fiesta lie.

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

Coalition States:

Argentina Morocco
Australia Netherlands
Bahrain New Zealand
Bangladesh Niger
Belgium Norway
Britain Oman
Canada Pakistan
Czechoslovakia Philippines
Denmark Poland
Egypt Qatar
France Russia
Greece Saudi Arabia
Honduras Senegal
Hungary Spain
Italy Syria
Germany Turkey
Japan United Arab Emirates
Kuwait United States

Coalition States with a brain:
United Kingdom
Spain
Portugal
Denmark
Netherlands
Iceland
Italy
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Hungary
Albania
Macedonia
Romania
Bulgaria
Turkey
Croatia
Slovenia
Ukraine

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

I could go on,

no you couldn't you pretty much blew your load.

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
I am not your son, bitch.

I know, I just figured by your actions that you're probably fatherless and could use the comfort.

If it will make you feel better, lets pretend the US didn't send multiple aircraft carriers into the first gulf war. Lets just talk about the canadian air craft carriers.
go ahead and tell me their names.

[/B][/QUOTE]

12clicks · 09-12-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Yeah, and Saddam won the last Iraqi election with 100% of the vote.

so is your point that we can't trust polls in iraq, or that we can only trust the ones that the liberals like?

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

It's sad that when you see someone not working you blame a successful business owner for not *giving* him a job but you don't say shit about the guy not going out and getting a job.
well, typical liberal thinking at work.

ok 1st of all you are assuming that I mean everyone. that is not the case... please note where I stated the greedy people that do these type of take overs for a living... "collectors of business".

no, I do not think it is right that people can play with other peoples lives like that and if you do you must not have a (forgive the spelling) conscious. How can you sit there and say that it is perfectly ok for someone to take advantage of people like that?

Also... to say if you can't find work get up and move... what if you can't, remember these are factory workers.. not a big money job when you have kids to support. How can you expect some one to give up their home of "x" amount of years, a home they raised their children in? and for what... a rich mans game.

As for welfare... if there are no jobs available, your unemployment has run out (not that you get much on that anyway), you have no money to "move" as you say, what else is there? Take your family and move into a box in an alley? Common man.. make some sense here.

Maybe you are not familiar with not having $$$.... I am from a small town in western PA... When all the mills and factories went out... there were a lot of people hurting. (not sure the reason the went out... may not have anything to do with this discussion).

There were no other jobs available... so you have 500 + people out of work... what.. they all suppose to uproot their lives and moce to another town just like that?

Man being poor is a trap that is hard to get out of... if you have never been there then you cannot understand and probally never will till it happens to you. I grew up poor... been doing ok.. but I ahve having a bit of a rough time right now.. but I know things will get better.

Trust me.. these thigs you say are easier said than done. Example... I have a mainstream business that has slowly been going down hill fr the last year. I created a lot of bills when times were good becasue I thought they would saty good. NOw with the new technology and thees kids building site for 8-10 an hour, I cannot compete with that and make my bills every month. Been looking for a job for the last 9 months and there is nothing out there and what is out there, there are literaly 1,000's of applicants for the same position.

So, I am offered a job say vegas, 5 hours away... could I take it.. no, why, I could not afford to move me and my family at this time. That is a MAJOR expense. So what do I do? Lucky for me I still have enough $$ comming to just make my bills, but that is because some clients are making payments ontheir sites monthly... once that stops... if this adult thing does not take off and I do not get more work in from mainstream... I am fucked.

I know this has nothing to do with corporate takeovers... just giving youan example of what life is like when you have to live paycheck to paycheck...

Sorry if i repeat myself or some of this is babble... but I have been up now for quite some time.

But can you see my point? if not you... someone else that might be able to explain this better?

Again.. I am not condeming the rich for being rich... I am condeming the greedy bastards that do this kind of shit as a game... Hell, I would love to be rich some day... but I will not fuck people over to get there and I will not fuck them over once I reach that point.

besides.. I am not a liberal... I am more an independant... I do not believe in any of the 3 parties positions.. The liberals have some fucked up ideas just like the republicans and democrats.

LadyMischief · 09-12-2003, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female

::shakes hand::

Damn girl it was fun sparring with you

Glad we could keep it within that realm and not be spitting curses at each other like a couple of spiteful old crones eh? hehhe

DemonWolfe · 09-12-2003, 12:26 PM

Okay I admit that I didn't read this entire thread.

But I can see some people in here who know a lot about current policies and the Iraq situation and I have a question.

Someone told me yesterday that it was on the news that the new estimated cost of the war in Iraq will cost every US household aprox $800.

Anyone else hear that figure?

That's a pretty damn big chunk of change with unemployment being so high and the economy in the tank.

Still not sure why the Iraqis can't pay for the rebuilding themeselves considering all the oil that they can export.

I know they are having problems getting things going now, so why not lend them the money and then once oil gets pumping out use that to repay the US loan?

12clicks · 09-12-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

ok 1st of all you are assuming that I mean everyone. that is not the case... please note where I stated the greedy people that do these type of take overs for a living... "collectors of business".

You said:
"Don't forget the biggest job killer of all... corporate takeovers.."
if you'd like to retract that statement and go with, a very very small minority of corporations collect businesses at the expense of workers but with no financial gain. I'll let it go.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
no, I do not think it is right that people can play with other peoples lives like that and if you do you must not have a (forgive the spelling) conscious. How can you sit there and say that it is perfectly ok for someone to take advantage of people like that?

no one is being taken advantage of. period. when the employee worked, they got paid. when they didn't, they didnt.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Also... to say if you can't find work get up and move... what if you can't, remember these are factory workers.. not a big money job when you have kids to support. How can you expect some one to give up their home of "x" amount of years, a home they raised their children in? and for what... a rich mans game.

there is no rich man's game. thats just a sour grapes mind set caused by personal failure. If you live in the desert but you need water you better move. If you live were there is no work, and you need money, you better move.
There are jobs and factories all over the country.
How do you think the horse and buggy builders survived once everyone started buying cars?

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
As for welfare... if there are no jobs available, your unemployment has run out (not that you get much on that anyway), you have no money to "move" as you say, what else is there? Take your family and move into a box in an alley? Common man.. make some sense here.

No, you make some sense. pick up your local newspaper and look at the help wanted ads. its still more than two pages long isn't it?
stop spreading the lie that there are no jobs. People who WANT to work always seem to have a job, people who don't don't.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Maybe you are not familiar with not having $$$....

I'm very familiar with it. that's why I'm so harsh on liberal story tellers.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
I am from a small town in western PA... When all the mills and factories went out... there were a lot of people hurting. (not sure the reason the went out... may not have anything to do with this discussion).

There were no other jobs available... so you have 500 + people out of work... what.. they all suppose to uproot their lives and moce to another town just like that?

I don't know. if you're a farmer and nothing will grow in your field any longer, shall you move or starve?
you understand that millions of people in this world would kill for a chance to *move* to the US and find a job, right?

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Man being poor is a trap that is hard to get out of... if you have never been there then you cannot understand and probally never will till it happens to you. I grew up poor... been doing ok.. but I ahve having a bit of a rough time right now.. but I know things will get better.

I've been poor. And even poor I knew that it was wrong to overtax the rich. even though over taxing them meant less tax for me, I knew it was still wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Trust me.. these thigs you say are easier said than done.

of course they are. back when I did them it was very hard but for me, the alternative was unthinkable. appearently for some, its not.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
Example... I have a mainstream business that has slowly been going down hill fr the last year. I created a lot of bills when times were good becasue I thought they would saty good. NOw with the new technology and thees kids building site for 8-10 an hour, I cannot compete with that and make my bills every month. Been looking for a job for the last 9 months and there is nothing out there and what is out there, there are literaly 1,000's of applicants for the same position.

that's just not true. there are plenty of jobs.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
So, I am offered a job say vegas, 5 hours away... could I take it.. no, why, I could not afford to move me and my family at this time. That is a MAJOR expense. So what do I do? Lucky for me I still have enough $$ comming to just make my bills, but that is because some clients are making payments ontheir sites monthly... once that stops... if this adult thing does not take off and I do not get more work in from mainstream... I am fucked.

how many jobs do you currently work?

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign
I know this has nothing to do with corporate takeovers... just giving youan example of what life is like when you have to live paycheck to paycheck...

I don't need your example. I lived it.

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

Again.. I am not condeming the rich for being rich... I am condeming the greedy bastards that do this kind of shit as a game... Hell, I would love to be rich some day... but I will not fuck people over to get there and I will not fuck them over once I reach that point.

your "fucking over" is imaginary. the corporation is adapting. the same thing you REFUSE to do when times are tough. It's no wonder you blame them. they are willing to adapt to survive, you aren't.

12clicks · 09-12-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DemonWolfe
Okay I admit that I didn't read this entire thread.

But I can see some people in here who know a lot about current policies and the Iraq situation and I have a question.

Someone told me yesterday that it was on the news that the new estimated cost of the war in Iraq will cost every US household aprox $800.

Anyone else hear that figure?

That's a pretty damn big chunk of change with unemployment being so high and the economy in the tank.

Still not sure why the Iraqis can't pay for the rebuilding themeselves considering all the oil that they can export.

I know they are having problems getting things going now, so why not lend them the money and then once oil gets pumping out use that to repay the US loan?

The liberal media likes to scare people.
the US intends to have iraqi oil pay. it just isn't happening yet.

directfiesta · 09-12-2003, 01:01 PM

12Shits, you are a sad bitter individual .

On top of it, uneducated.

I will let you marinate in your stupid beliefs....

At least, Colin and even TheKing can bring valid points and arguments.

All you bring are regurgitated sentences and words emptied of their meaning.

Really, Go Fuck Yourself.

Centurion · 09-12-2003, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
Centurion, my liberal lacky, here are some facts. I'm sure you'll ignore them (its the liberal way) but here you go any way.

after 9/11 the united states attacked afghanistan, the home of terorrists and their supporters. ALL taliban and alqueda members are now dead or on the run.
Since then, the only attacks from osama bin laden have been poorly scripted vhs tapes. If you'd like, I'll attack him with a vhs tape of my own.

12 Clicks, you ignorant slut..here's some UPDATED facts I'm sure YOU will ignore.

1)"All taliban and al-qaeda members are now dead or on the run" is pure bullshit. The Taliban is pouring back into Afghanistan in great numbers, and..oh, just one tiny member of Al-Qaeda is not on the run since we can't even find him to chase him, and his name is OSAMA BIN LADEN!

Only attacks are video tapes? The attack on Americans housed in Saudia Arabia. The attack on the U.N. mission in Iraq, the attack on the Mullah and his followers in Iraq. The attack in Bali that killed 100's including Australians. The recent attack on the hotel in Indonesia.

All of the above from the Al-Qaeda network. Now tell me that this network has been destroyed!!

theking · 09-12-2003, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

Ok... where are the WDM's?

Why arn't we going after N Korea? They are opening threating us?

Why has the hunt for Bin Ladden become 2nd priority when HE was the cause of 9/11?

Why do we keep pouring money into a country that does not want us there?

Why did we elect a president who cannot run a business let alone a country?

anyone?

People keep crying "where are the WMD's". WMD's were the primary public face put on the invasion of Iraq. WMD's were always only a single reason from a long list of reasons to invade Iraq. To me the primary reason was...forward thinking...strategic positioning...among several other important reasons.

After 9/11 war was declared upon international terrorism. Some in the administration said that the war could last as long as 10 years and others said as long as 30 years. Iraq is an extension of the war on terrorism.

Everyone becries that Saddam did not have anything to do with al Qaeda...there is some evidence that indicates otherwise...but it is immaterial. The war was declared on international terrorism and it is an undisputed fact that Saddam contributed to the support of several diffierent terrorist orgs in Palestine.

People keep crying "where is Bin Landen"..."why have we given up on the search for Bin Laden"..."why did we invade another country...taking resources away from the hunt for Bin Laden and the al Qaeda"?

Authorities knew the area that the Olympic Bomber was in and one of the most massive manhunts in our history was launched. The bomber was not found over a five year, or more, period of time. He was found by accident. There was a search for the UNI Bomber for what period...13 years or so. He was caught when his brother turned him in. The intel believe they know the general area that Bin Landen is hidding out...some of the most rugged terrain in the world...run by tribal leaders...warlords...and the criminal element...in a soveriegn nation. If all of the troops were pulled out of Iraq and were ordered to find Bin Laden this may not help in the capture of Bin Laden. Bin Laden will probably eventually be found or turned in...but it is really immaterial.

Bin Laden as an individual...is only important as a symbol...it is his org that is of true importance. We have been slowly but surely disrrupting the financial support...the communications...the arresting of and killing of leaders...and in general disrrupting the abilitity for the various cells around the world to act and this is an ongoing phase of the war on terrorism.

Ultimately we do not care if the people of Iraq want us there or not. We are there to serve what is percieved to be in the best interests of the United States...in our ongoing war against international terrorism. When it is percieved to no longer be in our best interests we will withdraw...but historically whenever the US introduces troops into an area of the world they do not normally withdraw...although there have been a few occasions where there has been a withdrawal.

If North Korea cannot be talked down...as is the current effort...they will be taken down...and the same applies to Iran.

Your will have to ask those that voted for the President why they voted for him and ask those that will vote for him again.

Anymore questions??

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

You said:
"Don't forget the biggest job killer of all... corporate takeovers.."
if you'd like to retract that statement and go with, a very very small minority of corporations collect businesses at the expense of workers but with no financial gain. I'll let it go.

Yes.. I said it wrong.. sorry... as I said... I am tired and things do not come out right sometimes... sorry...

Let me rephrase.. Hostile Takeovers... those are usually the ones where people get fucked... not all corporate mergers end in dismay.

Quote:

there is no rich man's game. thats just a sour grapes mind set caused by personal failure.

really, you really believe that... please... what fantasy world do you live in? maybe not game.. more a society usually all political people.. you know.. the ivy league'rs (yea... I know that is not a word)... but it does exist.

Quote:

No, you make some sense. pick up your local newspaper and look at the help wanted ads. its still more than two pages long isn't it?
stop spreading the lie that there are no jobs. People who WANT to work always seem to have a job, people who don't don't.

not in my field... some sunday papers over the las 9 - 12 months ther were about 2-3 that i would have been qualified for... and when you are going up against 1,000's of other applicants... do the math... what percentage woutl that be?

Quote:

that's just not true. there are plenty of jobs.

really? where? are you in phoenix or read the AZ republic every weekend? I do.. I know what is and is not available... if you know something I dont know... please share the infor with me.

Quote:

how many jobs do you currently work?

What does this have to do with anything? I have my business still thank god... like I said.. it has been slow.. but I am still making it.. barely.. but making it. I am trying to break the adult barrier and switch from mainstream..

However.. if that does not work.. and mainstream does not pick up... then I am not to proud to take a job at McDonalds till something better comes along...

You know... we both seem to be pretty set in our ways... you will not change my feelings on this and I am not going to changes yours... so, befor this gets ugly... shall we agree to disagree, call it a day and stay on good terms?

You are entitled to your thinking on this and I am entitled to mine.. and honestly.. I am too tired to go searching for facts to back up what I am saying... but they are there.. I have seen them at some point.. I don't just say things (type) to hear (see) myself just as I am sure you have facts to back up what you are saying too...

If you would like to continut this on another day when I have had proper sleep and can back up what I say, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you further.

Centurion · 09-12-2003, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
Centurion, my liberal lacky, here are some facts. I'm sure you'll ignore them (its the liberal way) but here you go any way.

Lets see, you liberal bozos like to say iraq has no ties to terrorism. how about this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84265,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/wnidal25.xml
you remember abu abbas and abu nidal don't you centurion? I know it doesn't fit in your defense of saddam and iraq but the liberal party line rarely has use for the truth.

12 Clicks..you inept ignorant slut:

Those links are about ONE fucking terrorist that was involved in non-al-qaeda attcks on a passenger ship back in the 80's! Man, I'm sure capturing that guy broke Al-Qaeda's back!! You dimwit!

Centurion · 09-12-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
Centurion, my liberal lacky, here are some facts. I'm sure you'll ignore them (its the liberal way) but here you go any way.

liberal fools, here's another example of why we went to iraq from your beloved liberal bastion PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...defectors.html
to quote:
n 1995, Saddam Hussein actually appeared to be winning in his strategy of cheat and retreat. He had actually managed to hide so many of his weapons that many of the U.N. weapons inspectors thought that he had turned over most of them, and were prepared to make that kind of recommendation. And it was only on the defection of his son-in-law and cousin [Kamel] that the international community realized how much he really still had. The whole crisis actually might have ended at that point, if it hadn't been for that very ... defection. ...

12 clicks..you muddled mass of ignorance slutting on this board as someone who thinks he knows something:

Hussein had all these WMDS! He was really good at hiding them, the UN couldn't find them. In fact, he's STILL so good at hiding them that after almost 6 months in Iraq, the best and brightest in U.S. intelligence can't find them either!!:-)

Go to your room and don't come out again until you've lashed yourself several times with a very stiff belt!

Yo Adrian · 09-12-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

People keep crying "where are the WMD's". WMD's were the primary public face put on the invasion of Iraq. WMD's were always only a single reason from a long list of reasons to invade Iraq. To me the primary reason was...forward thinking...strategic positioning...among several other important reasons.

The true reason for the war is irrelevant when talking about the WMD's. What IS relevant is the WMD's were the Bush administrations primary argument why we should take military action against them. What IS relevant is the fact that intelligence was fabricated for the sole intention of solidifying this argument.

They created the WMD threat because "forward thinking" isn't an accepted reason for declaring war on another nation. Under U.N. law a country has to experience imminent threat before declairing war. There was no imminent threat.

As for Bin Laden just being a symbol, this is true....however, what most Americans are upset about is Bush didn't announce Bin Laden as a "symbol".....he announced him as a living and breathing terrorist, an evil-doer, that we would capture/kill. Bush made him out to be our primary threat, that's the problem.

The military action against Iraq is over, and Iraq is a better place for its citizens now...that's not what's being argued. What's being argued is HOW the Bush administration when about setting it up...they did it through deception, plain and simple.

Too bad the Bush administration walked all over the U.N., especially now that it's become obvious we can no longer afford the continued occupation and reconstruction of Iraq. It's hard to watch us having to go back to the nations of "Old Europe" to ask for assistance.

DemonWolfe · 09-12-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

The liberal media likes to scare people.
the US intends to have iraqi oil pay. it just isn't happening yet.

I don't want to get this board war (it's not in my nature) but I have always wondered why conservatives call the media "liberal" when all the major news outlets are owned by admitted conservatives?

Perhaps it's just an old expression back to the days when the media was more liberal?

BTW, I have always assumed that you (12clicks) were a conservative and I mean no offense to you if you are not.

directfiesta · 09-12-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Farted by 12Shits

incorrect, again, as usual.
"""The cost of the war to the United States was calculated by Congress to be $61.1 billion; two-thirds of that amount was paid by Kuwait, Japan and Saudi-Arabia. """
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#Cost
pretending that canada or any other "much larger international coalition" as you put it paid for dick, is again, a direct fiesta lie.

\

So you are making my point that most of the cost was not paid by the US...

Now maybe NONE of it was:

Quote:

Twelve years ago, during the first Gulf War, Germany, Japan and Saudi Arabia paid just about all the bills. This time around it will be U.S. taxpayers.

http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/ser...rcosts20030324

You broke it, you pay for it.

Centurion · 09-12-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sperbonzo

At last....someone who didn't get their history lessons from comic book! It's chilling to me how many people on this board have no memory and no source of information outside either liberal popular media with agendas, (US and worldwide), or wacky consipiracy theory websites! It's become bizarre to me how people can't remember anything past 2 years ago!

(applause!!!)

Even scarier when conservatives like you 12clackers have done too much crack and start seeing things that aren't there!
Like a stable Iraq!

ColBigBalls · 09-12-2003, 01:27 PM

Blame Canada.. Blame Canada.. with all its bullshit hullabalu.. and that bitch Anne Murry too!!

Centurion · 09-12-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

The liberal media likes to scare people.
the US intends to have iraqi oil pay. it just isn't happening yet.

Clicks..you are truly one IGNORANT slut!
If the U.S. plans to pay for everything with Iraqi oil, why the fuck did Bush just ask Congress for ANOTHER 87 BILLION dollars to continue the war?

Or is THAT just more liberal propaganda?

theking · 09-12-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Uhm, I beg to differ.. Free Food? Where? Free health care? What the hell is an HMO then? We have free health care in Canada, and it's ACTUALLY FREE. Free education, but substandard right? We have that in Canada too. And tell all those people that live on the streets or have to spend every dollar they earn to have a cubby hole in a hovel so they don't have to be on the street. Free? RIGHT. I think if you actually did a demographic on a lot of the people who are poor/underprivledged, etc, you would be VERY surprised. Do you REALLY think that all the poor people are poor just because they're lazy fuckers? Free Education? Have you checked how much College tuition is lately? How many kids come from poor families contribute to the vicious circle of poverty because they CAN'T AFFORD SCHOOL to make MORE of their lives? There are only so many scholarships. Free. Heh yeah right. Not even FREEDOM is free, my dear.

There's an old saying and I think it holds true here. "Remove the rafter from your own eye before attempting to remove the piece of straw from your brother's". What you've said is very patriotic, but very idealistic, and far from the truth. I think the problem with, well not only America, but a LOT of countires in the world is that they're so busy picking out faults and trying to fix the problems of other countries, they overlook the vast inequalities and injustices in their own. Take a closer look, FF, your American Utopia is ALL IN YOUR IMAGINATION.

You can disagree all you want to but you will be wrong. If people are hungry in the US it is by their own decisions. If people are homeless in the US it is by their own decisions. If people do not recieve health care in the US it is by their own decisions. If people do not recieve a higher education in the US it is by their own decisions.

That the poor cannot recieve health care or recieve a higher education is simply a myth that is perpetuated about the US by people that are to ignorant to know otherwise. Below are some quotes in response to the same discussion in another thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
I live in California...and in California health care is available to everyone...including illegal immigrants...via multiple means...including MediCal. I would assume that most if not all states in the union have similar programs.

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

If you had a MediCal card you could go to any doctor that accepts MediCal cards...not all do. If you did not possess a MediCal card you could go to any County Hospital...or if you were delivered by ambulance to the emergency room of any hosptital...you would be treated without having to hand over cash. There are also many free clinics througout the State. Without the MediCal card you would be billed by the County Hospitals and private Hospitals based upon your ability to pay. $10.00 per month would be sufficent pay if that was the extent of your ability to pay...$0 if that was your ability to pay.

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

You are 100% correct. Anyone that has an average IQ and the will to do so can get a college degree...as well as advanced degrees...in the US. Scholarships...grants...student loans...work study programs...or a stint in the military...are ways to attend college.

theking · 09-12-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

You broke it, you pay for it.

War damage is not the major problem. The major problem is that we have learned that the initial infrastructure of Iraq was not up to par to begin with and over the last 12 years has detoriated from lack of maintanance. Bottom line basically the entire infrastructure has to be rebuilt...including the oil producing facilities...lines, ports and ect. This is the reason for the hugh costs.

Before anyone jumps in and blames the US for the detoriation...just remember that the sanctions were imposed by the UN not the US and also remember that even the monies from the "food for oil" program continued to be spent on the building of more palaces for Saddam.

DemonWolfe · 09-12-2003, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

If people are hungry in the US it is by their own decisions. If people are homeless in the US it is by their own decisions. If people do not recieve health care in the US it is by their own decisions. If people do not recieve a higher education in the US it is by their own decisions.

Damn, I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread (got a million things to do today) but that has got to be the dumbest statement I have ever seen made on a public message board.

(and I've seen a lot of dumb statements in my day)

Wow... I can only guess that you don't really believe that and that you are looking for attention and like to get on peoples nerves by saying dumb things.

Anyway...

I just gave a few hundred to feed the children. You tell me that when a child is starving (and it is happening right now as we type) it is his or her choice.

Children who are going hungry are not doing so by choice no matter which country they are from.

directfiesta · 09-12-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

War damage is not the major problem. The major problem is that we have learned that the initial infrastructure of Iraq was not up to par to begin with and over the last 12 years has detoriated from lack of maintanance. Bottom line basically the entire infrastructure has to be rebuilt...including the oil producing facilities...lines, ports and ect. This is the reason for the hugh costs.

Before anyone jumps in and blames the US for the detoriation...just remember that the sanctions were imposed by the UN not the US and also remember that even the monies from the "food for oil" program continued to be spent on the building of more palaces for Saddam.

Basically in agreement.

What does bother me is that the US had intelligence on where and when Saddam was going to fart but none on the infrastructures they intended to use.

Also, since the export of oil was limited to a trickle during the UN sanctions, it should not surprise anybody that those infrastructures are weak.

Why build a five lane highway when there is only a few cars ...

(Explanation for 12clicks: no oil to export, no need to spend on delivery and production ).

PS TheKing : the finger was not directed to you....

theking · 09-12-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DemonWolfe

Damn, I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread (got a million things to do today) but that has got to be the dumbest statement I have ever seen made on a public message board.

(and I've seen a lot of dumb statements in my day)

Wow... I can only guess that you don't really believe that and that you are looking for attention and like to get on peoples nerves by saying dumb things.

Anyway...

I just gave a few hundred to feed the children. You tell me that when a child is starving (and it is happening right now as we type) it is his or her choice.

Children who are going hungry are not doing so by choice no matter which country they are from.

In the case of the children it is the parents and their decisions that are responsible...but as you just pointed out...help is available for the children. What I posted stands and cannot be denied.

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

In the case of the children it is the parents and their decisions that are responsible...but as you just pointed out...help is available for the children. What I posted stands and cannot be denied.

what about orpahns? no parents..

also.. what about the 3rd world country children... yes, we are not a 3rd world country but we will be if good 'ol GWB gets re-elected.... or damn close to one anyway....

Furious_Female · 09-12-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Damn girl it was fun sparring with you Glad we could keep it within that realm and not be spitting curses at each other like a couple of spiteful old crones eh? hehhe

I was tempted

Furious_Female · 09-12-2003, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

what about orpahns? no parents..

also.. what about the 3rd world country children... yes, we are not a 3rd world country but we will be if good 'ol GWB gets re-elected.... or damn close to one anyway....

Sorry, the US will NEVER be close to a 3rd world country. That takes the prize for the dumbest statement on this thread LMAO

As for orphans, children are in a different category than adults. Adults without mental and physical disabilities, can make the decision to feast or famine. If people can't afford to pay their bills as it is, they shouldn't have kids.

You can make "It's my God given right to have children" ...then it's also your OBLIGATION to make sure they can be provided for, in any circumstance, with or without your presence. I don't think I would have a child, knowing that if God forbid something happens to me, they wouldn't have someone to love and provide for them. It's amazing that by the 21st century, people can't make common sense decisions.

theking · 09-12-2003, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

Basically in agreement.

What does bother me is that the US had intelligence on where and when Saddam was going to fart but none on the infrastructures they intended to use.

Also, since the export of oil was limited to a trickle during the UN sanctions, it should not surprise anybody that those infrastructures are weak.

Why build a five lane highway when there is only a few cars ...

(Explanation for 12clicks: no oil to export, no need to spend on delivery and production ).

PS TheKing : the finger was not directed to you....

My brother and I were just talking about this subject a few days ago...why didn't intelligence know about the infrastructure and the condition that it was in.

People keep saying that the administration lied about the WMD's. I think that it is foolish to think that they lied. When WMD's was the primary public face put forth for the invasion...they would not have done that unless they believed they would in fact find WMD's...as it would come back to bite them...not just at home...but world wide.

Our intel agencies have had massive failures in the past and I believe they have had two massive failures as regards Iraq...WMD's and the infrastructure.

The Senate Intelligence Select Committee is still conducting behind close door sessions and the public hearings are scheduled to begin sometime this month. I will watch every moment of the hearings.

I believe that what will be learned is a massive intel failure. I may be wrong...the Admin may have blown the intel out of proportion and I prefer this scenario rather than intel failure. We have to be able to rely on our intel agencies 24/7...Presidents come and go.

12clicks · 09-12-2003, 02:39 PM

oh look, the liberal kiddies are home from school. well, have fun without me. my work day is over.

Demon, the media is liberal.

the owners are not the people writing the articles and slanting the news.

example: every time we are shown tape of iraqi people they are shouting "death to america" etc.
this is slanted journalism to show bush and the US failing. this is not actually going on in any great number but showing iraqis working with americans doesn't fit the story they want to tell.
read the editorial pages of the ney york times and see how often the articles are against the US, against bush. Completely the opposite of the writing during the clinton years.
its an effective strategy to sway the rabble.

have a good weekend all.

theking · 09-12-2003, 02:40 PM

For those of you that are concerned with the debt the US is carrying. Here is some info for you...the sky is not falling.

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

A few of my bookmarks:

US debt: http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

Great site for GDP data.
http://www.bea.gov/bea/dn/nipaweb/Ta...=2003&Freq=Qtr

For example, Look up 1945 on both pages.
Debt 258.7 billion
GDP 223.0 billion

So you can see the debt/gdp ratio was actually higher in 1945 than it is today (It ballooned from pre-war figure of about 43% to greater than 100% by end of war )

In 1950, it was still 87%.

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

Very close to tripling.

Also, the debt as a percentage of GDP increased from 33% when Reagan took office to 50% when he left. When Bush left it was 64%. When Clinton left it was 58%. Right now, it's about 60%.

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

example: every time we are shown tape of iraqi people they are shouting "death to america" etc.
this is slanted journalism to show bush and the US failing. this is not actually going on in any great number but showing iraqis working with americans doesn't fit the story they want to tell.
read the editorial pages of the ney york times and see how often the articles are against the US, against bush. Completely the opposite of the writing during the clinton years.
its an effective strategy to sway the rabble.

have a good weekend all.

And the journalism that shows bush to be a hero is not slanted?

It's all tailored information my friend...

Have a good weekend too

theking · 09-12-2003, 03:05 PM

For those that are concerned about those living at the poverty level.

Poverty in the US usually means the following.

A roof over your head.
Free food
Hot water and plenty of running fresh water
Indoor plumbing
A stove to prepare meals
A refrigerator.
A Microwave
A washer and dryer
Beds...chairs...tables etc.
Clothes to wear.
One or more TV's.
A VCR or DVD player
One or more cars.
Free pre natal care and beyond
Free health care
Free lower education
The availablity of higher education to all that care to persue it.
Etc.

As posted in this thread are arguements for the justification of the war.

As posted in this thread the debt that the US is carrying is not of any great concern as the ratio has been much much higher in past times.

The naysayers and doomsday sayers will just have to wait for another time to read about the "Rise and Fall of the United States of America".

Check in every twenty years or so to view the status of the Country then...who knows some day the dreams of you bashers and haters may come true.

ADL Colin · 09-12-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DemonWolfe
I don't want to get this board war (it's not in my nature) but I have always wondered why conservatives call the media "liberal" when all the major news outlets are owned by admitted conservatives?

Perhaps it's just an old expression back to the days when the media was more liberal?

A interesting subject. I believe i've seen the media political advantage swing from liberal to conservative in the past few decades. This is mostly because of the rise of conservative talk show hosts and stations like FOX news.

Back before the cable networks, most people read the news in the paper. There were a few studies back then that purported to show an overall liberal bias in the various popular newspapers. Even to this day there mayb be a liberal tilt to newspapers. The NY Times is a good example.

When the cable networks came, it was Ted Turner's CNN which became the first 24 hours news channel. CNN, especially at the time, was especially left-leaning. This was probably the high point for liberal bias in US media.

Then along came Rush Limbaugh who really brought conservatism to a large radio-listening public. More recently FOX News has become popular. FOX has a stable of popular conservative commentators who all have book deals.

It seems to me that ABC is quite liberal while CBS is more conservative.

I don't think there's a long-term or permanent media bias. It switches back and forth over time for various reasons. Liberalism is rather conservative right now and conservatives are on the attack. Whereas in the 60's there were many outspoken and articulate liberal thinkers (Civil Rights movement for one) there are more of these on the conservative side today.

LadyMischief · 09-12-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female

I was tempted

Well that would have been no fun at all. It would be much more fun to combine our bitchy opinionated selves and make the world FEAR. :P

theking · 09-12-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

A interesting subject. I believe i've seen the media political advantage swing from liberal to conservative in the past few decades. This is mostly because of the rise of conservative talk show hosts and stations like FOX news.

Back before the cable networks, most people read the news in the paper. There were a few studies back then that purported to show an overall liberal bias in the various popular newspapers. Even to this day there mayb be a liberal tilt to newspapers. The NY Times is a good example.

When the cable networks came, it was Ted Turner's CNN which became the first 24 hours news channel. CNN, especially at the time, was especially left-leaning. This was probably the high point for liberal bias in US media.

Then along came Rush Limbaugh who really brought conservatism to a large radio-listening public. More recently FOX News has become popular. FOX has a stable of popular conservative commentators who all have book deals.

It seems to me that ABC is quite liberal while CBS is more conservative.

I don't think there's a long-term or permanent media bias. It switches back and forth over time for various reasons. Liberalism is rather conservative right now and conservatives are on the attack. Whereas in the 60's there were many outspoken and articulate liberal thinkers (Civil Rights movement for one) there are more of these on the conservative side today.

Pretty much nailed it...as usual.

theking · 09-12-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Well that would have been no fun at all. It would be much more fun to combine our bitchy opinionated selves and make the world FEAR. :P

Having an opinion and having a hook to hang it on do not always correlate.

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female

Sorry, the US will NEVER be close to a 3rd world country. That takes the prize for the dumbest statement on this thread LMAO

Yea.. they said that about the roman empire too... Where is it now?

Sorry... the bigger they are... the harder they fall...

If you think the little george is not capable of ruining this country... where have you been for the last 3 years?

Sorry, hon... it can happen...

(ok, the Roman Empire is not a 3rd world country... but it fell and it fell hard... )

NBDesign · 09-12-2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

http://www.panix.com/~clays/Una/una4.html#section14

Had a thought on this technology thing and why it would not be so damaging for technology to be taken away from our society...

there were people before all this technology? and there will be people if it should ever leave us. we grew our own vegetables, raised ouw own cattle, sheep, pork, etc.... And if we needed to... we could do it again.

Granted I just skimmed the article... so this may not even pertain to this comment you wrote... Just wanted to get this off my chest.

ADL Colin · 09-12-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

Yea.. they said that about the roman empire too... Where is it now?

Sorry... the bigger they are... the harder they fall...

I'd say the opposite is true.

Rome didn't fall in a day. From it's founding as a Republic until Caesar was about 500 years. It was another 400 years before it split into a Western and Eastern Empire. That's 900 years. The City of Rome was founded another few hundred years before the birth of the Republic. The Eastern Empire continued on as the Byzantine Empire until the 15th century.

The US will likely sit on top of the global power game until a highly populated nation can urbanize, industrialize, and capitalize. There is no likely global competitor for at least the next 5o years and maybe not for another 100. Even so, we're more likely to see a return to a duel superpower world - or maybe a dual regional world - like from 1945 until 1990 than anything else.

Why is the US the dominant economic and military power today?
A large population (world's 3rd most populous), heavily industrialized, diverse markets, social capital and other social factors. A large European nation like Germany would require a per capita GDP more than three times the US' to equal the size of her economy.

What are the other populous countries? China, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan. These countries can force urbanization and industrialization when they are small and medium sized economies. It remains to see what will happen as they grow in size or what internal political pressures they will face as they transition to more modern states.

Japan is the world's second largest economy and is only 40% of the size of the US. Her population is less than half of the US population. Japan would require a per capita GDP twice that of the US to match economic size. In a time where per capita GDP worldwide is converging, that is not realistic.

ADL Colin · 09-12-2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NBDesign

Had a thought on this technology thing and why it would not be so damaging for technology to be taken away from our society...

there were people before all this technology? and there will be people if it should ever leave us. we grew our own vegetables, raised ouw own cattle, sheep, pork, etc.... And if we needed to... we could do it again.

Oh, yeah? It's being tried right now. Take a good hard look at Rwanda, Sri Lanka, and Uganda. What do you think of the results?

If you were born in 1900 you could expect to live to be about 50.
People born today can expect to live about 80 years. Technology, industry, science, progress.

Third World countries are Third World countries because they DON'T have technology and industry.

The world is much better today than it ever has been .. for those that live in modern nations.

Furious_Female · 09-12-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Well that would have been no fun at all. It would be much more fun to combine our bitchy opinionated selves and make the world FEAR. :P

I agree!

Joe Average · 09-12-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female
Only in America can you get free food, free education, free health care, free housing and STILL have the freedom to complain about it.

Not true... there are many countries where this is possible.

Furious_Female · 09-12-2003, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Average

Not true... there are many countries where this is possible.

Yeah I should have been more specific. There are a lot of other countries that might be just as giving and opportunistic as the US. But where were those many other countries, when we asked for help? No comparison.

theking · 09-12-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female

Yeah I should have been more specific. There are a lot of other countries that might be just as giving and opportunistic as the US. But where were those many other countries, when we asked for help? No comparison.

Huh?

09-12-2003, 10:32 AM	#203
NBDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The other side of Hell Posts: 5,814	Can we see you two kiss and make up.... perferably without your clothes on sorry, could not resist... __________________ Use Lensman's program and get the most for your hard earned traffic. Get Heidi for your site Here. Lots of sets to choose from. She makes a great Addition to any site. Grab one Grab All.

09-12-2003, 12:26 PM	#211
DemonWolfe Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: World Traveler Posts: 261	Okay I admit that I didn't read this entire thread. But I can see some people in here who know a lot about current policies and the Iraq situation and I have a question. Someone told me yesterday that it was on the news that the new estimated cost of the war in Iraq will cost every US household aprox $800. Anyone else hear that figure? That's a pretty damn big chunk of change with unemployment being so high and the economy in the tank. Still not sure why the Iraqis can't pay for the rebuilding themeselves considering all the oil that they can export. I know they are having problems getting things going now, so why not lend them the money and then once oil gets pumping out use that to repay the US loan? __________________ Sorry, no signature today. Please come back tomorrow.

09-12-2003, 01:01 PM	#214
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,730	12Shits, you are a sad bitter individual . On top of it, uneducated. I will let you marinate in your stupid beliefs.... At least, Colin and even TheKing can bring valid points and arguments. All you bring are regurgitated sentences and words emptied of their meaning. Really, Go Fuck Yourself. __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

09-12-2003, 02:39 PM	#235
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,789	oh look, the liberal kiddies are home from school. well, have fun without me. my work day is over. Demon, the media is liberal. the owners are not the people writing the articles and slanting the news. example: every time we are shown tape of iraqi people they are shouting "death to america" etc. this is slanted journalism to show bush and the US failing. this is not actually going on in any great number but showing iraqis working with americans doesn't fit the story they want to tell. read the editorial pages of the ney york times and see how often the articles are against the US, against bush. Completely the opposite of the writing during the clinton years. its an effective strategy to sway the rabble. have a good weekend all. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

09-12-2003, 03:05 PM	#238
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	For those that are concerned about those living at the poverty level. Poverty in the US usually means the following. A roof over your head. Free food Hot water and plenty of running fresh water Indoor plumbing A stove to prepare meals A refrigerator. A Microwave A washer and dryer Beds...chairs...tables etc. Clothes to wear. One or more TV's. A VCR or DVD player One or more cars. Free pre natal care and beyond Free health care Free lower education The availablity of higher education to all that care to persue it. Etc. As posted in this thread are arguements for the justification of the war. As posted in this thread the debt that the US is carrying is not of any great concern as the ratio has been much much higher in past times. The naysayers and doomsday sayers will just have to wait for another time to read about the "Rise and Fall of the United States of America". Check in every twenty years or so to view the status of the Country then...who knows some day the dreams of you bashers and haters may come true. __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

09-12-2003, 01:27 PM	#224
ColBigBalls Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,733	Blame Canada.. Blame Canada.. with all its bullshit hullabalu.. and that bitch Anne Murry too!!