Hi,

Just got back home and wanted to clarify my prior comments.

I was not endorsing PETA or Greenpeace first of all. I don't think taking things to the extreme the way both those organizations do really accomplishes things as effectively as possible. It clearly turns off many people to the causes they are fighting for as well.

I just believe it is important to have awareness of what goes on in the world. Then people can at least make a choice on the issues and either say fuck it or this is an issue that needs to be addressed and fixed as best as possible.

I've tried going completely vegetarian several times, but it was very difficult on my body and I felt it was impacting my health. Now I'm a semi vegetarian. I eat salads and vegetables and other health food as much as possible and have cut way back on my meat intake to at most once a week. I eat mostly fish when it comes to meat. And when I do have meat its in very small portions. It really does gross me out sometimes and I often think of what I'm really eating and start to gag.

I do think from a health standpoint our bodies were meant to have animal protein in our food sources. Obviously there is no way in hell people will stop eating meat unless some mass epidemic like that mad cow disease really blew out all over. But I just think the least we can do as carnivores is treat the animals that will be slaughtered to keep us alive in a humane manner. They should be provided space to move around. Food and water and a decent living environment. That's the least we owe them in consideration for killing them for our food.

Its clearly important that medical research still require animals for research though computer models are now becoming much more widely used. And hey if we're going to put a monkey through the tortures of experiments at least make sure he's got as much comfort as possible in light of the stuff being done to him. And if its possible to do the experiment with a computer model, our tax dollars shouldn't be used and wasted to keep some scientists lab going when it doesn't have to.

On the environment issue, the older I get the more I realize how badly we've fucked up our world. It is really getting out of hand with 6 Billion people now on the planet. The planet will not be able to sustain continued growth forever unless you take care of it in kind. Yeh we have to cut trees down, and yet we need to still drill for oil, and everything else. But as much as we can we should study the impact of everything we do and make sure if there is a way to do it without impacting the environment as much that should always be the way to go.

So in conclusion, lets at least be humane to the animals that keep us alive. Let's take care of our beautiful lands as best we can.

Thank you for your opinions. And I hope my position is now better clarified.

:thumbsup Carrie & Missy. We have fairly strict farming laws here, the latest one being toys for pigs to keep them entertained.

peta chicks are crazy, i dated one

weirdos

yeah I hate peta especially for winning WIPO case against people eating tasty animals..

That all-creatures site should send traffic to Meatholes! It would probably kick ass..

http://www.meatholes.com/meathole.htm

another one of the founders has also left become MORE extreme.. as if either of these events have any bearing whatsoever on the validity of the organisation.

I'm not even really aware or care about PETA or even the welfare of food in general but you know very well yourself that you're willfully misunderstanding what they stand for to take the piss out of them.
Lions eat other animals but they aren't in charge of the destiny of just about every living creature on the planet.. for better or for worse - we are.. and with that comes certain responsibilities.

PETA obviously take these responsibilties too far.. but the thing about extremists is that you need them to keep the other end in check. It's not as if they're ever going to convince the world not to eat meat, but having them there in the background isn't exactly having many negative effects.. the less people that eat meat the less resources used so good on them.

There is no validity to this organisation and many like them. They are extreme wackos. They have no sense of balance, only a burning emotional ideology.

Just like in anything else (gun control, religion, politics), it only takes a few dedicated nut jobs to cajole thousands of sheep.

If you support Greenpeace, you are one of the sheep.

I agree on the extremes. In the middle lies reality and the truth!

and if you are against them you are one of the other sheep.

see.. if we were in perfect balance with the environment then extremists wanting to further "save" it would be unwarranted. Given how badly we're fucking it up though I really couldn't give a rats ass if there were heaps more of these groups, they keep the other extremists - corporate polluters etc in check. You people just like to have a good whinge on easy targets like stinking hippies, but you cry and sob when your kids get cancer from soil contamination or high lead levels in your food. You can't have it both ways. It would be nice if we naturally steered the middle course but it aint the way it happens.. unfortunately we need prancing idiots on both sides to try and keep the mean somewhere near centre.

hehe.. and if not, its at the very least a safer route to take.. I want to punch a hippy in the face as much as the next guy, mostly because they shoot themselves in the foot by protesting in stupid outfits and stunts etc.. but I know they're only helping to keep things in check..

You're not a man until you've eaten veal, fois gras, and ortolan. :1orglaugh

"beef, the other red meat"

That was not a question, it was a remark lacking any insight whatsoever.

I am not against them in so much that I have not done anymore to lessen their cause thatn post on this board. Their ideology is flawed. Just like a corporate polluters ideology is flawed. I denounce them both. I am no where near a sheep.

Quote:

see.. if we were in perfect balance with the environment then extremists wanting to further "save" it would be unwarranted. Given how badly we're fucking it up though I really couldn't give a rats ass if there were heaps more of these groups, they keep the other extremists - corporate polluters etc in check. You people just like to have a good whinge on easy targets like stinking hippies, but you cry and sob when your kids get cancer from soil contamination or high lead levels in your food. You can't have it both ways. It would be nice if we naturally steered the middle course but it aint the way it happens.. unfortunately we need prancing idiots on both sides to try and keep the mean somewhere near centre.

We do not, nor will we ever live in a perfect world. I do not go through life worrying about all the animals dissapearing or how they are teated, what will happen to crops, trees, etc., global warming, gun control or any of the other BS that are hot buttons for emotionally charged individuals that have nothing better to do than champion an extreme cause.

For all we know, a meteor might hit earth next year and all this other shit will be moot.

I just concentrate on what I can have an impact on... my community, my surroundings, my business, my family and my life.

Realist or Idealist?

Has anyone seen the Penn and Teller skit where they interview all the environmental activists?

Fucking hilarious. And, these are the people who are suposed to be able to articulate their position the best. :1orglaugh

The same goes for retarded people and children. If a child or a retarded person kills someone, should they be given a fair trial by a jury consisting of their underage or retarded peers?

But aside from that, this is also a very good argument against humans eating meat, if you also say "Why should only humans refrain from killing other animals?". You just gave the answer, it seems. Humans have the choice, they're intelligent beings with the choice to act morally. That's what sets them apart from other animals.

Now, if you say "That gives them the right to slaughter anything less intelligent", that leads to the conclusion that retards and infants should be eaten as well. Besides, it is not a reason at all - "I can act morally, thefore I shouldn't." doesn't sound that logical, does it.

Good point. Watch everyone change their tune if one day Earth is invaded by a large Alien force looking for fresh food on their journey and in their world the most intelligent beings are considered like our Filet Mignons.

Hmmm hmmm, well lookie here Gorg, looks like we're gonna have some Kentucky Fried Humans tonight . . . Yummy

They all look so tasty!

Arial, what's up with that scrolling text in your sig that says "I Kill More Fags Than AIDS"?

Shit dude, that is seriously not cool.

You really think if your little aliens invaded and ate some humans, people would stop eating cows? LOL

100

I had a really nice pork fillet tonight. Thanks for caring. :thumbsup

What concerns me the most is the humane treatment of cats and dogs. I don't eat meat , but the reason has more to do with my taste in food, than out of concern for cows or pigs.These are loving, domesticated animals who are meant to be kept as pets. They are basically dependent on humans for food, shelter and care. Anyone who has ever had a cat or dog as a pet knows the strong emotional bond between a pet and owner. The love that is reflected in the eyes of our devoted animals totally negates the suggestion that they do not have souls.

It's heartbreaking that we live in a civilized society - yet our laws against animal cruelty leave a lot to be desired. The emasculated pieces of shit who abuse animals are the same ones who abuse children and are definitely more likely to commit rape and murder.


Extremist Groups are never cool - as they become so fanatical that they do more harm than good.

Nah, I'm sure the cows would be desert for them after they get done munching on us.

:1orglaugh

nothing wrong with eating a dog or a cat as long as it was killed humanely.

I have mentioned this on the board recently but here it goes again and I have no clue why.

Lately I have found myself grossed out when I see meat, especiall raw meaty or the preparing of it. Ive gutted deer and other animals all my life. Have had blood cover me and not be grossed out.

I used to be able to just buy a big $20 ham and get out my electric knife and just hack away at it and shit. But lately I have been totally grossed out by meat and have really slowed down on it. I used to eat it daily. Now I dont think I do.

It has nothing to do with the animals or them being killed or inhumane treatment, it just grosses me out and I have no clue why.

The other day I couldnt finish my food because ws literally getting disgusted.

Not sure what is going on in my head but its fucking me up

hahah

1. There are alot of people (including nutrionists and Dr.'s) who believe humans are ?behavioral? omnivores. Many people humans are naturally herbivores. How many can't eat red meat because it does not digest in there body well?

2. I see alot of threads here that say since animals in nature eat each other, it is ok for us. I would say as a response "Then go out into the wilderness and fight them one on one, no guns". Those arguements mean nothing since I am sure none of you hunt without guns from a distance.

I don't hunt at all.

It is ok for us to eat animals.

People are not naturally herbivores. Herbivores don't have canines.

Hrm..

While PETA, Greenpeace, etc are fucking whackos, they do have one good point.

Factory farms are wrong. Period. Nothing wrong w/ meat, etc. But christ, at least not tortue the animals. If everything was basically your old fashioned family-type farm, these groups truly wouldn't have a leg to stand on with the public as a whole.

The conditions on my moms farm vs. a big factory farm for chickens say, is insane. My mom kills the chickens and *gasp* sells them for food of course, but until then they live a generally normal life. The flip-side is a 5 foot box crammed with 20 chickens all fed super-duper-food to make them gain weight super fast. Just aint natural or right.

That said, I'm not going to stop eating meat. It's just I would prefer say, paying double for that pound of hamburger at the store if I knew it came from "conventional" farming means.

Do away w/ factory type farming, and I guarantee you PETA would not even be heard of by the majority.

-Phil

p.s. That all-creatures.org site is done by a bunch of morons. Too many factual errors. Like uhm, "Cows must be kept pregnant in order for them to keep producing milk". What kind of retarded fuck actually believes that?

about as many who can't eat veggies for the same reason

I'm sure there is a point here somewhere.:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

What do you people think the cave man ate? The only thing different today is there are more ppl, thus creating the need to make more FOOD.

Food=good

food=meat, egs, and poultry

so meat, eggs, and poultry = GOOD

;)

I was always good in math...

I support organizations such as Green Peace and PETA... I may not agree with every single small detail but as a whole i support their fight for the protection freedom of animals.

I grew up on a farm in the country my friends and family hunted and fished. So i can fairly say i have developed my opinion from either side of the fence. In areas such as Environmental protection and animal protection the groups need to be extreme. They are fighting agains mulit-million dollar corporations... they have to be as "cut throat" in their convictions as the man sitting behind the desk.

We are cultured and taught it is ok to over endulge. And i am one hundred percent with them when they r trying to teach childern to question things. These kids need to know the truth from every angle... so they can make their own judgements.

:2 cents:

What's your thoughts on the Drink beer, not milk campaign?

Well i am one step ahead i already don't drink milk (its fucking gross) i am a Heineken and Alexander Keith's drinker... :drinkup

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

What do your kids drink? Coronas?

LOL dude i dont have kids.. heehe but Soy Milk is good calcium suplements whateva'..... shit all this talk of beer and i may need to cut out early! :helpme

http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html :Graucho

From that url....

"I was looking over a menu in a restaurant the other day when I saw a section for vegetarians; I thought to myself "boy, I sure am glad that I'm not a meat-hating fascist" and I skipped on to the steak section (because I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $15 for an alfalfa sandwich, slice of cucumber and a scoop of cold cottage cheese), but before I turned the page something caught my eye. The heading of the vegetarian section was titled "Guiltless Grill," not because there were menu items with fewer calories and cholesterol (since there were "healthy" chicken dishes discriminated against in this section), but because none of the items used animal products. Think about that phrase for a second. What exactly does "guiltless grill" imply? So I'm supposed to feel guilty now if I eat meat? Screw you.

What pisses me off so much about this phrase is the sheer narrow-mindedness of these stuck up vegetarian assholes. You think you're saving the world by eating a tofu-burger and sticking to a diet of grains and berries? Well here's something that not many vegetarians know (or care to acknowledge): every year millions of animals are killed by wheat and soy bean combines during harvesting season (source). Oh yeah, go on and on for hours about how all of us meat eaters are going to hell for having a steak, but conveniently ignore the fact that each year millions of mice, rabbits, snakes, skunks, possums, squirrels, gophers and rats are ruthlessly murdered as a direct result of YOUR dieting habits. What's that? I'm sorry, I don't hear any more elitist banter from you pompous cocks. Could it be because your shit has been RUINED?

That's right: the gloves have come off. The vegetarian response to this embarrassing fact is "well, at least we're not killing intentionally." So let me get this straight; not only are animals ruthlessly being murdered as a direct result of your diet, but you're not even using the meat of the animals YOU kill? At least we're eating the animals we kill (and although we also contribute to the slaughter of animals during grain harvesting, keep in mind that we're not the ones with a moral qualm about it), not just leaving them to rot in a field somewhere. That makes you just as morally repugnant than any meat-eater any day. Not only that, but you're killing free-roaming animals, not animals that were raised for feed. Their bodies get mangled in the combine's machinery, bones crushed, and you have the audacity to point fingers at the meat industry for humanely punching a spike through a cow's neck? If you think that tofu burgers come at no cost to animals or the environment, guess again.

One thing's for sure... If every person had to grow their own crops and/or raise their own livestock for consumption, they would have a better appreciation of our role in the food chain.

They would also see that killing a wild cat or gopher or mouse may be practical and so would purposely sparing a garden snake or worm.

The bottom line is that the ppl who are overly concerned about the feelings of animals are just as ignorant as the corporation or individual that doen't give a shit at all.

The world is just getting more full of dumbfucks who can't help but be on one extreme or another, are extremly misinformed and spout off out of pure emotion rather than logic.

Either that or they did way too much acid. :Graucho

Yes I realize that and agree. Of course people shouldn't torture animals needlessly or kill off entire species. My main points there were that it's no more wrong for animals to kill for food that it is for humans to kill for food, and to illustrate the absurdity of giving animals equal rights with humans.

I disagree there. I think they do more harm than good to their cause by (in the minds of many) destroying the credibility of the animal rights argument. People begin to think of anybody who talks about the humane treatment of animals and saving endangered species as a bunch of nutty extremist peta types.