the future of paysite access fees? - GoFuckYourself.com

eatapeach · 08-19-2003, 10:30 AM

I was looking at the new direct tv guide last night and I saw an ad where you could get:

3 hours access to playboy tv, taste of spice, spice platinum, hot net, and hot zone for $12.99

OR:

one of these channels 90 minutes for $9.99.

these are all hardcore channels, but pretty mainstream sex i think, not much niche content.

it made me think are paysites priced too low? should the monthly recurring billing be dropped and hourly access be instituted?

with all the current problems facing the industry, maybe this is the silver lining?

anyone have any thoughts on this?

doober · 08-19-2003, 10:31 AM

Ch 593 is a good deal insnt it?

eatapeach · 08-19-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by doober
Ch 593 is a good deal insnt it?

that's what i was thinking.

i know that whenever i wasn't around my old roommate would buy access to the censored hardcore channels and pay $10 to watch the top of a girl's head as she gave a guy a blowjob.

maybe that's what on-demand porn will be in a few years, a niche tv channel that you can sign up for and pay an hourly fee.

$13 x 3 times a month = $39, same as a paysite now.

i think this is going to be great ,, and once broadband is fully implemented niche content providers will be loving life.

eatapeach · 08-19-2003, 10:54 AM

one other thing that's great about this model, no visa.

but since i'm talking to myself, i guess i'll just let this thread die away.

i know that some of you forward thinking folks are thinking along the exact same lines i am, but don't want to talk about it.

that's cool. :D

Jakke PNG · 08-19-2003, 10:57 AM

I think 90% of finnish paysites :

1) bill the customer by phone or SMS
2) ~5$ for one day access

doober · 08-19-2003, 11:08 AM

How do you suggest to bill thes guys tho...lest say by the hr...or 3hr hr block ala DTV?

I know I wouldnt mind trying it!

Imagine the surfer is in at the end of his 1hr purchsed block and he sees a another movie set or pic set that he hadnt noticed and hes convinved has to have it for his collection or next jerk off session...
Whats he gonna do?
Buy again!

cha chinG!

Nysus · 08-19-2003, 11:12 AM

I believe it will eventually (not sure how many years, possibly a decade) that everything will move to on demand. People don't generally want to pay for something when they don't use it, I know I don't.

Cheers,
Matt

polish_aristocrat · 08-19-2003, 11:12 AM

And what about charge backs ?

doober · 08-19-2003, 12:05 PM

Would have to be a system where customers cant charge back because the initial fee is so small
Like lets say 5-7$ an hr or something.
They like it they can buy again or maybe opt for a months membership to save money..they dont like it they can move on with minimal charges.

Hard to do i guess for now...But wll wait for the future to see what happens.

StacyCat · 08-19-2003, 02:08 PM

Compared with "offline" means of distributions, paysites are an incredible deal! Why get one magazine with 30 pictures when you can get 3 days of access to a mega site with 10k of pictures?

However, online avenues have gotten into "price wars," or more accuratly termed "comfortable" with their billing methods. With Visa coming at us, I think we are going to have to look at alternative billing methods, including per minute, per hour and on demand services.

eatapeach · 08-19-2003, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StacyCat
Compared with "offline" means of distributions, paysites are an incredible deal! Why get one magazine with 30 pictures when you can get 3 days of access to a mega site with 10k of pictures?

i think that's an excellent point, and one i have used to push my sponsors sites before.

there was a thread earlier about the changes coming in 2004 and beyond. the billing methods are going to be one of the biggest.

there are a lot more people out there with a phone bill or cable bill than people with credit cards they can use to buy porn.

stocktrader23 · 08-19-2003, 03:53 PM

This is exactly why I have argued with people on this board who were saying $40 a month is too high. Where were all of you then?

Carrie · 08-19-2003, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
This is exactly why I have argued with people on this board who were saying $40 a month is too high. Where were all of you then?

Guys forking out $$ for PPV don't sit and think "damn, I've done this 5 times this month at $10 each, that's $50!"
They think "$10 for Jenna J double-donging with a hot redhead? I'm there!"

If you told them up-front they were going to spend $50, they'd tell you to GFY.

It's incremental and subliminal... works like a charm.

DamageX · 08-19-2003, 04:03 PM

$40/mo MAY be too high, if it's charged all at once. Do $11.95/week instead and it's better.

polish_aristocrat · 08-19-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

Guys forking out $$ for PPV don't sit and think "damn, I've done this 5 times this month at $10 each, that's $50!"
They think "$10 for Jenna J double-donging with a hot redhead? I'm there!"

If you told them up-front they were going to spend $50, they'd tell you to GFY.

It's incremental and subliminal... works like a charm.

that's interesting...

polish_aristocrat · 08-19-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamageX
$40/mo MAY be too high, if it's charged all at once. Do $11.95/week instead and it's better.

Have you tried it ?

DamageX · 08-19-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat

Have you tried it ?

No. I don't run any paysites. I merely posted it as a suggestion. I believe it may cause retention to take a slight dive, but on the other hand it could really improve signups and conversions from trial to full. However, I could be wrong, since these are just my (common sense) guesses and I have no data to back this up with.

eatapeach · 08-19-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
This is exactly why I have argued with people on this board who were saying $40 a month is too high.

my argument is the exact opposite, however.

i think that the internet based porn industry is NOT charging enough for what we provide.

i agree that it shouldn't be a lump sum of $40 or whatever, but smaller payments as many times as you can.

my guess is that when the online porn business makes the transistion to micropayments and alternative billing it will spark a renaissance in the industry.

Olivier · 08-19-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eatapeach

my argument is the exact opposite, however.

i think that the internet based porn industry is NOT charging enough for what we provide.

i agree that it shouldn't be a lump sum of $40 or whatever, but smaller payments as many times as you can.

my guess is that when the online porn business makes the transistion to micropayments and alternative billing it will spark a renaissance in the industry.

there is a potential in that I think.

There is much more stuff online than on TV or magazine. So micropayments as much as you can sounds good for what the surfer can get

sumphatpimp · 08-19-2003, 06:09 PM

I think that incemental billing is the way to go.

Could be done now with dialers.

Dialers can be built specific just for your site, just got to look around a little to find them.

I think if a surfer spends $40/month he is going to be on that site every nite wailing away and burning you bandwidth and consuming content, which in the end runs up the webmasters operating expense.

If he goes Pay Per View I think we would have less operating expense and we can sell surfer specific content for his next visit, he would have something to look forward to, and be willing to spend for it. (up sell)

I think in the end we could make more money.

thats my thoughts

DamageX · 08-25-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sumphatpimp
I think in the end we could make more money.

Provided something is actually being charged for the content.

stocktrader23 · 08-25-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eatapeach

my argument is the exact opposite, however.

i think that the internet based porn industry is NOT charging enough for what we provide.

i agree that it shouldn't be a lump sum of $40 or whatever, but smaller payments as many times as you can.

my guess is that when the online porn business makes the transistion to micropayments and alternative billing it will spark a renaissance in the industry.

I agree the industry isn't charging enough for what is provided. Entertainment is one of the most expensive things anywhere. Adult entertainment was always taboo and cost more than mainstream until the internet. I agree that smaller payments would be great but I also know that people don't bite their lip when they see $39.95 on a paysite. If they do it's only because they have seen hundreds of others sites selling the product for less. There are tons of people out there with plenty of money and if they want something $40 isn't going to set them back.

I'll get flamed for saying it but whoever started the first paysites and came up with a monthly tag of $20 or less for access had no business sense. I sold all kinds of shit before adult and this is by far the easiest I have ever seen. It's ALL in the marketing.

Vick · 08-25-2003, 06:39 PM

I always wondered why the companies that came over from phone sex lines (in the adult on-line industry infancy) moved to a per time unit (monthly) billing model and away from the per minute model

The problem with doing $11.95 a week may be having the subscriber seeing 4 charges (or 5) per month on his billing and that drawing more attention to the billing

stocktrader23 · 08-25-2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vick
I always wondered why the companies that came over from phone sex lines (in the adult on-line industry infancy) moved to a per time unit (monthly) billing model and away from the per minute model

The problem with doing $11.95 a week may be having the subscriber seeing 4 charges (or 5) per month on his billing and that drawing more attention to the billing

Most places that bill like this let it build up to a certain amount or charge in a set period of time.

Take Ifriends for example.

Andy P · 08-25-2003, 07:17 PM

Can't wait to see how the billing processors evolve.. much is up to them.

It will be alot easier to work with impulse buying once the whole billing process gets faster and less complicated, the sms concept for instance is very interesting, is there any good sponsors with this yet ?

Kimmykim · 08-25-2003, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamageX
$40/mo MAY be too high, if it's charged all at once. Do $11.95/week instead and it's better.

There are two schools of thought on this situation, the larger one being that you have just shot your chargebacks through the roof since anytime you have multiple charges on the surfers same billing cycle you run a much greater risk of chargebacks on all the charges.

The other school of thought being that if you keep the amount low enough the surfer wont charge it back no matter how often you charge him.

Only time will tell which one is going to hold true and under 1%...

08-19-2003, 10:30 AM	#1
eatapeach Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: toto's doghouse Posts: 493	the future of paysite access fees? I was looking at the new direct tv guide last night and I saw an ad where you could get: 3 hours access to playboy tv, taste of spice, spice platinum, hot net, and hot zone for $12.99 OR: one of these channels 90 minutes for $9.99. these are all hardcore channels, but pretty mainstream sex i think, not much niche content. it made me think are paysites priced too low? should the monthly recurring billing be dropped and hourly access be instituted? with all the current problems facing the industry, maybe this is the silver lining? anyone have any thoughts on this?

08-19-2003, 10:57 AM	#5
Jakke PNG ex-TeenGodFather Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Suomi Finland Perkele Posts: 20,306	I think 90% of finnish paysites : 1) bill the customer by phone or SMS 2) ~5$ for one day access __________________ ..and I'm off.

08-19-2003, 11:12 AM	#8
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	And what about charge backs ? __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

08-19-2003, 03:53 PM	#12
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	This is exactly why I have argued with people on this board who were saying $40 a month is too high. Where were all of you then? __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

08-19-2003, 04:03 PM	#14
DamageX Marketing & Strategy Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Former nomad Posts: 14,293	$40/mo MAY be too high, if it's charged all at once. Do $11.95/week instead and it's better. __________________ Whitehat is for chumps If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

08-19-2003, 10:31 AM	#2
doober Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: in yoOoo kitchen Posts: 6,984	Ch 593 is a good deal insnt it?

08-19-2003, 10:54 AM	#4
eatapeach Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: toto's doghouse Posts: 493	one other thing that's great about this model, no visa. but since i'm talking to myself, i guess i'll just let this thread die away. i know that some of you forward thinking folks are thinking along the exact same lines i am, but don't want to talk about it. that's cool. :D

08-19-2003, 11:08 AM	#6
doober Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: in yoOoo kitchen Posts: 6,984	How do you suggest to bill thes guys tho...lest say by the hr...or 3hr hr block ala DTV? I know I wouldnt mind trying it! Imagine the surfer is in at the end of his 1hr purchsed block and he sees a another movie set or pic set that he hadnt noticed and hes convinved has to have it for his collection or next jerk off session... Whats he gonna do? Buy again! cha chinG!

08-19-2003, 11:12 AM	#7
Nysus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,817	I believe it will eventually (not sure how many years, possibly a decade) that everything will move to on demand. People don't generally want to pay for something when they don't use it, I know I don't. Cheers, Matt

08-19-2003, 12:05 PM	#9
doober Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: in yoOoo kitchen Posts: 6,984	Would have to be a system where customers cant charge back because the initial fee is so small Like lets say 5-7$ an hr or something. They like it they can buy again or maybe opt for a months membership to save money..they dont like it they can move on with minimal charges. Hard to do i guess for now...But wll wait for the future to see what happens.

08-19-2003, 02:08 PM	#10
StacyCat Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,167	Compared with "offline" means of distributions, paysites are an incredible deal! Why get one magazine with 30 pictures when you can get 3 days of access to a mega site with 10k of pictures? However, online avenues have gotten into "price wars," or more accuratly termed "comfortable" with their billing methods. With Visa coming at us, I think we are going to have to look at alternative billing methods, including per minute, per hour and on demand services.

08-19-2003, 06:09 PM	#20
sumphatpimp Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,235	I think that incemental billing is the way to go. Could be done now with dialers. Dialers can be built specific just for your site, just got to look around a little to find them. I think if a surfer spends $40/month he is going to be on that site every nite wailing away and burning you bandwidth and consuming content, which in the end runs up the webmasters operating expense. If he goes Pay Per View I think we would have less operating expense and we can sell surfer specific content for his next visit, he would have something to look forward to, and be willing to spend for it. (up sell) I think in the end we could make more money. thats my thoughts

08-25-2003, 06:39 PM	#23
Vick Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Little South of Sanity Posts: 178	I always wondered why the companies that came over from phone sex lines (in the adult on-line industry infancy) moved to a per time unit (monthly) billing model and away from the per minute model The problem with doing $11.95 a week may be having the subscriber seeing 4 charges (or 5) per month on his billing and that drawing more attention to the billing __________________ Cloud9Cash.com

08-25-2003, 07:17 PM	#25
Andy P Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 132	Can't wait to see how the billing processors evolve.. much is up to them. It will be alot easier to work with impulse buying once the whole billing process gets faster and less complicated, the sms concept for instance is very interesting, is there any good sponsors with this yet ?