verotel..? - GoFuckYourself.com

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:09 PM

this an option that is safe for me right now? im in canada and cant get ccbill and need to get things rolling

Kapitan Ivanov · 08-10-2003, 01:13 PM

Yes. It's fine.

Just_Dave · 08-10-2003, 01:23 PM

verotel is a good company to work with

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:29 PM

but are they secure from visa shutting em down? they dont ask for the 750 fee?

mikeeee · 08-10-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
but are they secure from visa shutting em down? they dont ask for the 750 fee?

ccbill doesnt process for canada?

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:31 PM

not allowed to do visa for ccbill

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
this an option that is safe for me right now? im in canada and cant get ccbill and need to get things rolling

Quit. You can't afford to be in this business. You have no money, nada, nothing...

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:43 PM

actually its not that i cant afford it.. its the fact that you must be in the states... learn something then come talk to me

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
actually its not that i cant afford it.. its the fact that you must be in the states... learn something then come talk to me

I am not the one with dead sites because I can't afford billers.

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:47 PM

nah nothing to do with $ rather be secure rather than having to switch over and over... far from broke dear

now be gone

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
learn something then come talk to me

One thing I *did* learn, dude, is that globill is no longer in business. Don't you feel like a retard with your sig, and join page?

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
nah nothing to do with $ rather be secure rather than having to switch over and over... far from broke dear now be gone

You got no money, dude. 'Fess up. You are dead before you even got started.

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:48 PM

why change it right now when i have no traffic to that site... no need right now and no point changing things from day to day on the join page when nothign is aval at this moment

so sorry go play somewhere else

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:49 PM

actually do u want me to post stats from what i have been doing on tricams?? lol guess u dont know everything like you seem to act

1800 in 16 hours of work on tricams... not bad.. then again im broke lol keep in mind i am having my site for fun not as a job.. so why dont ya go find someone else to bug .. just cause you cant get in my pants doesnt mean u always have to be a dick... oh wait u need a dick to be a dick.. now play a game of hide and go fuckyourself

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
actually do u want me to post stats from what i have been doing on tricams?? lol guess u dont know everything like you seem to act 1800 in 16 hours of work on tricams... not bad.. then again im broke lol keep in mind i am having my site for fun not as a job.. so why dont ya go find someone else to bug .. just cause you cant get in my pants doesnt mean u always have to be a dick... oh wait u need a dick to be a dick.. now play a game of hide and go fuckyourself

Liar! Is that why you were begging for free hosting?
And why would I want to get into your pants? Fat chicks don't do it for me.

Kimmykim · 08-10-2003, 01:51 PM

I would suggest talking to an accountant and an attorney and getting your business into a Visa compliant IPSP.

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
why change it right now when i have no traffic to that site... no need right now and no point changing things from day to day on the join page when nothign is aval at this moment so sorry go play somewhere else

http://www.naughtyjenn.com/stats/

Yup,

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:52 PM

free hosting?? lol now ur just making shit up.. since u can see my site has been regged and hosted at the same place.. never had a problem with that.. now u just have to make shit up.. ur impressive

jact · 08-10-2003, 01:53 PM

This is a most interesting thread.

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:53 PM

kimmy: is it possible even though i am in canada? as far as i have been told and read only us citz can get ccbill visa from their regulations

p00p · 08-10-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
free hosting?? lol now ur just making shit up.. since u can see my site has been regged and hosted at the same place.. never had a problem with that.. now u just have to make shit up.. ur impressive

I am too lazy to search, but I DO remember when VideoVoyeur said you were begging for free hosting. Rich people don't do that, nor people with pride, or success.

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 01:57 PM

yet again facts u posted are wrong.. he offerd a free design.. i said sure cause i needed one.. then he started to ignore me so i asked him.. and also said he shouldnt have offerd one if he wasnt going to do it.. and to this date he hasnt proved he did it... anywho go figure out something quick to type cause you seem well at this.. although i dont see you making $... and hell im happy right now with tricams and doing live chat stuff... just wanted to ask for options.. u havent been any help to anyone on this board as far as i can see and i have looked.. sooooo go do something productive you big time person

Shoplifter · 08-10-2003, 02:02 PM

The good thing about Verotel is that they will accept cards from countries (particularily in Asia) that the other guys don't. We use them as a secondary on some asian themed sites. I don't know of any major sites using them as primary right now.

I wouldn't use them for a primary processor until it is clear that they are Visa/MC compliant. Read and do what KK advises above, there is no other option but to be compliant.

p00p · 08-10-2003, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
yet again facts u posted are wrong.. he offerd a free design.. i said sure cause i needed one.. then he started to ignore me so i asked him.. and also said he shouldnt have offerd one if he wasnt going to do it.. and to this date he hasnt proved he did it... anywho go figure out something quick to type cause you seem well at this.. although i dont see you making $... and hell im happy right now with tricams and doing live chat stuff... just wanted to ask for options.. u havent been any help to anyone on this board as far as i can see and i have looked.. sooooo go do something productive you big time person

I've helped a lot of people on this board. I can see right through you, idiot. "ur" a dude, "ur" beyond clueless, and most of all, "ur" a liar.
Go pimp out your pancake tittied g/f on tricams. Your broke ass is not going to make a cent with your generic, shitty little website.

NaughtyJenn · 08-10-2003, 02:04 PM

shop: but is it possible for myself in canada to be compliant?? from what i have read companies like ccbill and so forth only accept us based places... i will be calling monday morning and taking some steps to get this..

Kimmykim · 08-10-2003, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaughtyJenn
kimmy: is it possible even though i am in canada? as far as i have been told and read only us citz can get ccbill visa from their regulations

There is nothing stopping you from obtaining a US presence for your business, regardless of where you live. You can also obtain an EU presence as well.

Shoplifter · 08-10-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

There is nothing stopping you from obtaining a US presence for your business, regardless of where you live. You can also obtain an EU presence as well.

Right. With money you can do or be anything.

XxXotic · 08-10-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
This is a most interesting thread.

isn't it?

AmeliaG · 08-10-2003, 03:12 PM

Kimmykim, in your opinion, is Verotel in violation of Visa terms when it processes for US companies?

Kimmykim · 08-10-2003, 03:28 PM

If the rule says that you can only acquire in the region where you settle, and that in order to settle in the US you must register all merchants you process for and that they can only be US merchants... or if you settle in the EU they must register and all be EU merchants... then I am not sure what opinions have to do with anything.

What you seem to be asking me is the equivalent of whether or not doing 90 in a 55 mph zone will get you a ticket when you get caught?

jeroman · 08-10-2003, 03:38 PM

Webcombilling.com - netherlands
2000charge.com - Germany / US
verotel.com - netherlands ?

These will not go down because of the "not having the 750 fee"
because they are not US companies just like CCbill EU is not.
However CCbill EU only accepts Europeans while the others above accepts everyone ( I Think ?!)

The might go down for others VISA/MC reasons but not for
the current 750 issue like Globill, ACpay......
They was US companies processing abroad and thought
that was ok. The above at the top mention companies are
European Processors processing in Europe and tehrefor no
crossboarder regulation issus either !

Kimmykim · 08-10-2003, 03:57 PM

jeroman, if a processor located in the EU and settling transactions in the EU is processing for companies based and located in the US, that is cross border acquisition.

Can it be more simply explained than that?

NelsonN · 08-10-2003, 04:00 PM

Wholly crap, p00p is on the loose again spattering garbish as always.

AmeliaG · 08-10-2003, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
jeroman, if a processor located in the EU and settling transactions in the EU is processing for companies based and located in the US, that is cross border acquisition.

Can it be more simply explained than that?

Nope. Don't think it could be more clear than that. I just had not seen anyone on the boards talking about Verotel being a problem and I wanted to confirm that my understanding was correct. Thanks for making it clear. Most of the people I know appear to be going over to Verotel. I think Verotel is offering big webmaster incentives or something because I keep getting pitched to go with them by everybody and their dog.

down_with_the usa · 08-16-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmeliaG

Nope. Don't think it could be more clear than that. I just had not seen anyone on the boards talking about Verotel being a problem and I wanted to confirm that my understanding was correct. Thanks for making it clear. Most of the people I know appear to be going over to Verotel. I think Verotel is offering big webmaster incentives or something because I keep getting pitched to go with them by everybody and their dog.

Are you dreaming?

Read this about the fucking VEROTEL !!!
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=121520

emmanuelle · 08-16-2003, 02:03 PM

Jen- I'm Canadian and might be able to help
drop me an email
[email protected]

KCat · 08-16-2003, 02:12 PM

Jenn - Why don't you just make your site upsell to your cam shows? You can get a percentage from Tricams or $30 per join from IFriends.

Developing a US presence to process with CCBill is a lot more difficult than it was last November. It's easy to register a US corp, but when you fill out your CCBill forms, you also need a principle that is a US citizen. Unless you have someone you can trust to provide their SSN#, you may not want to go this route.

Incognito · 08-16-2003, 03:19 PM

to KimmyKim:
Damn I've been reading Your cross border crap for a year now already and I am so tired of it.

You're bullshitting people.

From Visa Int. member letter towards IPSP model and cross border regulation, dated 12 May 2002, to Principal Members (IML #13/02):

___________________________
(i) MERCHANT LOCATION
Background
In the physical world, the location of a Merchant Outlet determines the country where the Merchant must deposit its
Transactions, which Acquirers may contract with it, and which domestic, regional, or inter-regional rules apply to the
Transactions it generates. Until now, a Merchant Outlet was defined as ?the physical premises of the Merchant at which
a Transaction is completed.? Since this description does not address the online environment, Visa has developed a set of
criteria to help Members and Merchants determine a remote Merchant Outlet?s location. The new criteria expand the
current rules for Mail/Phone Order (MO/TO) and Electronic Commerce Merchants, stipulating that a Transaction takes
place at the Merchant Outlet, regardless of the Cardholder location at the time of the Transaction.
1 A permanent establishment is a fixed place of business through which a Merchant pursues
an economic activity irrespective of where websites or servers are located (as used by the

Approved Operating Principles
1. Merchant Outlet
Adding the italicised text has expanded the definition of Merchant Outlet:
Merchant Outlet: The physical premises of the Merchant at which a Transaction is completed. Effective
immediately, an Electronic Commerce or Mail/Phone Order Merchant Outlet is located in the country where all of
the following conditions occur:
? There is a permanent establishment1 through which the economic activity (i.e., relevant Visa Transactions) is
completed.
Exceptions:
a) For entities that sell digital goods only, the country where the principals work must be used in lieu of
a permanent establishment.
b) When payment services are provided by an Internet Payment Service Provider2 (IPSP), the economic
activity is deemed to occur at the Sponsored Merchant3, not its IPSP. The IPSP is acting on behalf of
the Sponsored Merchant.
? The Merchant has a local address for correspondence and judicial process.
Note:
A Post Office Box or mail forwarding service does not meet this requirement.
? The Merchant holds a valid business license for the Merchant Outlet.
? The Merchant Outlet pays taxes related to the sales activity.
An exception to the condition described in the first bullet applies when payment services are provided by a third party,
as described in Section (ii), Article 3.2 of this Member Letter. In case of dispute, Visa reserves the right to determine a
Merchant Outlet?s location based on an evaluation of the Merchant?s business model and any other available
information. Visa?s decision is final. As in the physical world, a single Merchant can have multiple Merchant Outlets
that may be located in multiple jurisdictions.
2. Website Requirement
To minimise Cardholder confusion, the existing requirement that a Merchant declares its country of domicile on its
Websites4 is revised effective 15 November 2002, to require that the country of domicile of the Merchant Outlet
location be clearly disclosed to the Cardholder immediately prior to completion of payment instructions.
_______________________________________________

definition of "principal" here is - owner when it comes to all this "USA or EU presence" shit. Principal is the person who is actually doing the business, as easy as that.

That is exactly why if You ever apply to Your own merchant account for adult in USA and Your volume is over lets say 100K they will require that the corporation is 51% owned by US citizens.

Therefore in case of digital content only VISA by rules wants You to run Your business from the country where You sit by Your fucking computer and none of the nominee directors plus Nevada LLC plus US bank account and redirect adress and phones shit will work according to the book.

All IPSPs who let You think otherwise bullshit You cause the rules are indeed the same and are doing just because they dont think anyone will ever check small accounts.

The only way to be really compliant with Visa rules and work with Ibill, CCBill, PSW and so on is move to USA physically.

Good luck...

P.S. This is actually why people like Kimmy really suck. Cause unlike most of You she probably has read these rules.

CHMOD · 08-16-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Therefore in case of digital content only VISA by rules wants You to run Your business from the country where You sit by Your fucking computer and none of the nominee directors plus Nevada LLC plus US bank account and redirect adress and phones shit will work according to the book.

All IPSPs who let You think otherwise bullshit You cause the rules are indeed the same and are doing just because they dont think anyone will ever check small accounts.

The only way to be really compliant with Visa rules and work with Ibill, CCBill, PSW and so on is move to USA physically.

Good luck...

P.S. This is actually why people like Kimmy really suck. Cause unlike most of You she probably has read these rules.

God !
I hope this is incorrect...

Can CCBill respond on this ?

Incognito · 08-17-2003, 02:58 AM

They wont.

That is an actual quoting from Visa Int Principal Member towards IPSP regulations letter.

Which is by the way sooooo ugly.... I mean why running around and crying or laughing about Globill or Verotel being in breach with IPSP regulations and cross border regulations if what's CCbill, Ibill and Epoch and even some acquirers in case of small accounts are doing is clearly against IPSP cross border regulations as well?

This is plain unfair. Some animals are more equal than the others?
But it's fucked up.

Suppose Your sponsored merchant account or CardServiceInt merchant account suddenly gets high turnover and Visa looks who are the owners, and here You are - fucked. Cause IPSPs or CardServiceInt will simply claim they didnt know You were not an american. As easy as that.

ayj · 08-17-2003, 02:04 PM

This is extremely interesting and I would like to hear other peoples response.

ayj

nasko · 08-17-2003, 08:46 PM

Hmmmmmm.....I would like to hear a CCBill response on this....

Incognito · 08-18-2003, 12:36 AM

The situation is very stupid by the way.

These rules, IPSP, are illegal probably themselves. I doubt that Visa or whatever else business is allowed to discriminate further than Your federal law does.

Are You allowed in USA to provide services to certain nations for example only? Say restaurants for white people only?

I dont think so.

The USA law defines corporation in many cases (LLC I think for intance) as a singe responcible party with all liability on it's own shoulders.

Basicly if You got a corp. in America it's good enough to do business in America by law since the corp. itself is responcible and can pay taxes.

If a public service, and on top of that natural monopoly on the market (adult e-commerce) , is making differencies in between different types of companies and requests basicly an american citizen to own that corp. to do business with that corp. , i.e. goes further than the law itself does, that's basicly discrimination, antitrust laws violation and probably illegal.

The problem is , neither You neither me are not allowed to object because we have never received or saw these rules officially. Only IPSPs did. Therefore they are the one's who are supposed to complain and with all the money they make they must be in power to do so.

But what happened is that US IPSPs simply were happy to use the situation and basicly killed all other third party billers using theese rules which probably were created for their own restriction.

The VISA idea was basicly nice as communism. Let webmasters work with IPSPs which are in their own region for further control and more responcibility, which You cant really say we dont need looking on some of us in this industry, however the person who wrote THESE rules should probably be killed for stupidity and lack of our market knowledge.

Because what happened is that Ibill, CCBill, PSW and others became compliant much faster than smaller guys (no wonder eh? with so much money) and rushed to create IbillEU, CCBillEU and so on and naturally were probably complaining every second that the rules which are applied to them should be applied to everyone else and here we are - there are NO more other third party billers with the exception of Verotel probably and the ones who were complaining are clearly braking the rules themselves potentially making You risk again and again and loose money on stupid presence shit.

And mind You - this "principal" stuff unless someone objects seriously will be enforced because sooner or later slow EU local guys will create their own compliant IPSPs, in EU even the law is much more liberal towards pornography , and as soon as there will be a base where to migrate these rules will be enforced because in essence they are good for us.

However there's one small question - what happens to Your rebills and reserves on USA IPSPs when You will be thrown out?

I'll tell You straight away - You wont see them. Because chargeback rate on rebills only without new signups is HORRIBLE. Just cancelling Your rebills will theoretically allow to save Your reserves however look at what has almost killed this business - simply GREED.

What would have happened if VISA would go out of this business permanently? NOTHING. In 3 monthes everyone would be paying with MasterCard and Diners. What would have happened if VISA banned rebills? NOTHING. People pay exactly what they pay for a product. You cant really make how much they pay Yourself, the price always reflects the need. A BMW costs what people pay for it, more or less of course. Without rebills prices will be adjusted and that's it.

However VISA doesnt want to go out of this market. And doesnt want to banish rebills. Because 70% of ONLINE sales are done with VISA, a card for everybody. Porn is almost the blood of internet now. You loose porn and in half a year You'll notice that VISA card is suddenly used less in the whole internet. Because if John Doe uses it for porn he will use it on Amazon as well.

However if You prosecute for FRAUD hard the more people will go into internet shopping being less scared everyday to use their cards in the net where....guess what...VISA holds 70% of online sales. See the picture now?

It's the greed and stupidity which kills it all. Visa who wants it all too fast and US IPSPs who brake the rules they bitch so much that everyone else is braking.

p00p · 08-18-2003, 12:43 AM

Interesting.....

Incognito · 08-18-2003, 01:34 AM

Here's some more interesting info.

http://www.corporate.visa.com/mc/press/press156.html

What is said there is that visa brand is chosen by 50% (maximum) of respondents. In other words with the exception of USA market , where I guess numbers probably are the same, Visa is being used in 50% of credit card purchases, and that's according to VISA

.

When in online world all of us know that the actual number is 70%.

And that is the answer to the evergoing question "Why?" and all cospiracy theories - at least 20% difference that's why.

IMP^or^SNiTL.e · 08-18-2003, 02:29 AM

go with globill

inthestars · 08-18-2003, 05:25 AM

Get your own merchant account. Third party will eventually be dead..

nasko · 08-18-2003, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by inthestars
Get your own merchant account. Third party will eventually be dead..

Sometimes this is not an option for small paysites.

cherrylula · 08-18-2003, 07:49 AM

And visa/mastercard are non-profit organizations.

What they do with all those non-profits?

Fletch XXX · 08-18-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nasko

Sometimes this is not an option for small paysites.

Are we supposed to worry about the guy around the corner who doesnt have enough money to open that Comic Shop he always wanted?

If you cant pay to play, you dont get the 3 balls to throw yo.

08-10-2003, 01:13 PM	#2
Kapitan Ivanov Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Thank you for posting! You will now be taken to your post. If the administrator has selected to moderate all posts in this forum, you will be taken back to the forum and your post will be displayed presently. If you opted to post a poll, you will now Posts: 1,000	Yes. It's fine. __________________ Ivanov:Never posting again. (666)

08-10-2003, 01:53 PM	#19
jact Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Canada Posts: 9,134	This is a most interesting thread. __________________ Free agent

08-10-2003, 03:12 PM	#29
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,571	Kimmykim, in your opinion, is Verotel in violation of Visa terms when it processes for US companies? __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

08-10-2003, 04:00 PM	#33
NelsonN Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 215	Wholly crap, p00p is on the loose again spattering garbish as always. __________________ Toy Niche Sponsor

08-16-2003, 03:19 PM	#38
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	to KimmyKim: Damn I've been reading Your cross border crap for a year now already and I am so tired of it. You're bullshitting people. From Visa Int. member letter towards IPSP model and cross border regulation, dated 12 May 2002, to Principal Members (IML #13/02): ___________________________ (i) MERCHANT LOCATION Background In the physical world, the location of a Merchant Outlet determines the country where the Merchant must deposit its Transactions, which Acquirers may contract with it, and which domestic, regional, or inter-regional rules apply to the Transactions it generates. Until now, a Merchant Outlet was defined as ?the physical premises of the Merchant at which a Transaction is completed.? Since this description does not address the online environment, Visa has developed a set of criteria to help Members and Merchants determine a remote Merchant Outlet?s location. The new criteria expand the current rules for Mail/Phone Order (MO/TO) and Electronic Commerce Merchants, stipulating that a Transaction takes place at the Merchant Outlet, regardless of the Cardholder location at the time of the Transaction. 1 A permanent establishment is a fixed place of business through which a Merchant pursues an economic activity irrespective of where websites or servers are located (as used by the Approved Operating Principles 1. Merchant Outlet Adding the italicised text has expanded the definition of Merchant Outlet: Merchant Outlet: The physical premises of the Merchant at which a Transaction is completed. Effective immediately, an Electronic Commerce or Mail/Phone Order Merchant Outlet is located in the country where all of the following conditions occur: ? There is a permanent establishment1 through which the economic activity (i.e., relevant Visa Transactions) is completed. Exceptions: a) For entities that sell digital goods only, the country where the principals work must be used in lieu of a permanent establishment. b) When payment services are provided by an Internet Payment Service Provider2 (IPSP), the economic activity is deemed to occur at the Sponsored Merchant3, not its IPSP. The IPSP is acting on behalf of the Sponsored Merchant. ? The Merchant has a local address for correspondence and judicial process. Note: A Post Office Box or mail forwarding service does not meet this requirement. ? The Merchant holds a valid business license for the Merchant Outlet. ? The Merchant Outlet pays taxes related to the sales activity. An exception to the condition described in the first bullet applies when payment services are provided by a third party, as described in Section (ii), Article 3.2 of this Member Letter. In case of dispute, Visa reserves the right to determine a Merchant Outlet?s location based on an evaluation of the Merchant?s business model and any other available information. Visa?s decision is final. As in the physical world, a single Merchant can have multiple Merchant Outlets that may be located in multiple jurisdictions. 2. Website Requirement To minimise Cardholder confusion, the existing requirement that a Merchant declares its country of domicile on its Websites4 is revised effective 15 November 2002, to require that the country of domicile of the Merchant Outlet location be clearly disclosed to the Cardholder immediately prior to completion of payment instructions. _______________________________________________ definition of "principal" here is - owner when it comes to all this "USA or EU presence" shit. Principal is the person who is actually doing the business, as easy as that. That is exactly why if You ever apply to Your own merchant account for adult in USA and Your volume is over lets say 100K they will require that the corporation is 51% owned by US citizens. Therefore in case of digital content only VISA by rules wants You to run Your business from the country where You sit by Your fucking computer and none of the nominee directors plus Nevada LLC plus US bank account and redirect adress and phones shit will work according to the book. All IPSPs who let You think otherwise bullshit You cause the rules are indeed the same and are doing just because they dont think anyone will ever check small accounts. The only way to be really compliant with Visa rules and work with Ibill, CCBill, PSW and so on is move to USA physically. Good luck... P.S. This is actually why people like Kimmy really suck. Cause unlike most of You she probably has read these rules. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

08-10-2003, 01:09 PM	#1
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	verotel..? this an option that is safe for me right now? im in canada and cant get ccbill and need to get things rolling

08-10-2003, 01:23 PM	#3
Just_Dave Its almost time Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 13,009	verotel is a good company to work with

08-10-2003, 01:29 PM	#4
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	but are they secure from visa shutting em down? they dont ask for the 750 fee?

08-10-2003, 01:31 PM	#6
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	not allowed to do visa for ccbill

08-10-2003, 01:43 PM	#8
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	actually its not that i cant afford it.. its the fact that you must be in the states... learn something then come talk to me

08-10-2003, 01:47 PM	#10
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	nah nothing to do with $ rather be secure rather than having to switch over and over... far from broke dear now be gone

08-10-2003, 01:48 PM	#13
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	why change it right now when i have no traffic to that site... no need right now and no point changing things from day to day on the join page when nothign is aval at this moment so sorry go play somewhere else

08-10-2003, 01:49 PM	#14
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	actually do u want me to post stats from what i have been doing on tricams?? lol guess u dont know everything like you seem to act 1800 in 16 hours of work on tricams... not bad.. then again im broke lol keep in mind i am having my site for fun not as a job.. so why dont ya go find someone else to bug .. just cause you cant get in my pants doesnt mean u always have to be a dick... oh wait u need a dick to be a dick.. now play a game of hide and go fuckyourself

08-10-2003, 01:51 PM	#16
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	I would suggest talking to an accountant and an attorney and getting your business into a Visa compliant IPSP.

08-10-2003, 01:52 PM	#18
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	free hosting?? lol now ur just making shit up.. since u can see my site has been regged and hosted at the same place.. never had a problem with that.. now u just have to make shit up.. ur impressive

08-10-2003, 01:57 PM	#22
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	yet again facts u posted are wrong.. he offerd a free design.. i said sure cause i needed one.. then he started to ignore me so i asked him.. and also said he shouldnt have offerd one if he wasnt going to do it.. and to this date he hasnt proved he did it... anywho go figure out something quick to type cause you seem well at this.. although i dont see you making $... and hell im happy right now with tricams and doing live chat stuff... just wanted to ask for options.. u havent been any help to anyone on this board as far as i can see and i have looked.. sooooo go do something productive you big time person

08-10-2003, 02:02 PM	#23
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,730	The good thing about Verotel is that they will accept cards from countries (particularily in Asia) that the other guys don't. We use them as a secondary on some asian themed sites. I don't know of any major sites using them as primary right now. I wouldn't use them for a primary processor until it is clear that they are Visa/MC compliant. Read and do what KK advises above, there is no other option but to be compliant.

08-10-2003, 02:04 PM	#25
NaughtyJenn Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 7,355	shop: but is it possible for myself in canada to be compliant?? from what i have read companies like ccbill and so forth only accept us based places... i will be calling monday morning and taking some steps to get this..

08-10-2003, 03:28 PM	#30
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	If the rule says that you can only acquire in the region where you settle, and that in order to settle in the US you must register all merchants you process for and that they can only be US merchants... or if you settle in the EU they must register and all be EU merchants... then I am not sure what opinions have to do with anything. What you seem to be asking me is the equivalent of whether or not doing 90 in a 55 mph zone will get you a ticket when you get caught?

08-10-2003, 03:38 PM	#31
jeroman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Norway or UK or...damn, where am I Posts: 356	Webcombilling.com - netherlands 2000charge.com - Germany / US verotel.com - netherlands ? These will not go down because of the "not having the 750 fee" because they are not US companies just like CCbill EU is not. However CCbill EU only accepts Europeans while the others above accepts everyone ( I Think ?!) The might go down for others VISA/MC reasons but not for the current 750 issue like Globill, ACpay...... They was US companies processing abroad and thought that was ok. The above at the top mention companies are European Processors processing in Europe and tehrefor no crossboarder regulation issus either !

08-10-2003, 03:57 PM	#32
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	jeroman, if a processor located in the EU and settling transactions in the EU is processing for companies based and located in the US, that is cross border acquisition. Can it be more simply explained than that?

08-16-2003, 02:03 PM	#36
emmanuelle Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Oh Canada! Posts: 3,662	Jen- I'm Canadian and might be able to help drop me an email [email protected]

08-16-2003, 02:12 PM	#37
KCat Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: PNW Posts: 2,204	Jenn - Why don't you just make your site upsell to your cam shows? You can get a percentage from Tricams or $30 per join from IFriends. Developing a US presence to process with CCBill is a lot more difficult than it was last November. It's easy to register a US corp, but when you fill out your CCBill forms, you also need a principle that is a US citizen. Unless you have someone you can trust to provide their SSN#, you may not want to go this route.

08-17-2003, 02:58 AM	#40
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	They wont. That is an actual quoting from Visa Int Principal Member towards IPSP regulations letter. Which is by the way sooooo ugly.... I mean why running around and crying or laughing about Globill or Verotel being in breach with IPSP regulations and cross border regulations if what's CCbill, Ibill and Epoch and even some acquirers in case of small accounts are doing is clearly against IPSP cross border regulations as well? This is plain unfair. Some animals are more equal than the others? But it's fucked up. Suppose Your sponsored merchant account or CardServiceInt merchant account suddenly gets high turnover and Visa looks who are the owners, and here You are - fucked. Cause IPSPs or CardServiceInt will simply claim they didnt know You were not an american. As easy as that. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

08-17-2003, 02:04 PM	#41
ayj Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 27	This is extremely interesting and I would like to hear other peoples response. ayj

08-17-2003, 08:46 PM	#42
nasko Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Universe Posts: 148	Hmmmmmm.....I would like to hear a CCBill response on this.... __________________ 3Pic.com - 700k/day 30 days listing for $1,000!

08-18-2003, 12:36 AM	#43
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	The situation is very stupid by the way. These rules, IPSP, are illegal probably themselves. I doubt that Visa or whatever else business is allowed to discriminate further than Your federal law does. Are You allowed in USA to provide services to certain nations for example only? Say restaurants for white people only? I dont think so. The USA law defines corporation in many cases (LLC I think for intance) as a singe responcible party with all liability on it's own shoulders. Basicly if You got a corp. in America it's good enough to do business in America by law since the corp. itself is responcible and can pay taxes. If a public service, and on top of that natural monopoly on the market (adult e-commerce) , is making differencies in between different types of companies and requests basicly an american citizen to own that corp. to do business with that corp. , i.e. goes further than the law itself does, that's basicly discrimination, antitrust laws violation and probably illegal. The problem is , neither You neither me are not allowed to object because we have never received or saw these rules officially. Only IPSPs did. Therefore they are the one's who are supposed to complain and with all the money they make they must be in power to do so. But what happened is that US IPSPs simply were happy to use the situation and basicly killed all other third party billers using theese rules which probably were created for their own restriction. The VISA idea was basicly nice as communism. Let webmasters work with IPSPs which are in their own region for further control and more responcibility, which You cant really say we dont need looking on some of us in this industry, however the person who wrote THESE rules should probably be killed for stupidity and lack of our market knowledge. Because what happened is that Ibill, CCBill, PSW and others became compliant much faster than smaller guys (no wonder eh? with so much money) and rushed to create IbillEU, CCBillEU and so on and naturally were probably complaining every second that the rules which are applied to them should be applied to everyone else and here we are - there are NO more other third party billers with the exception of Verotel probably and the ones who were complaining are clearly braking the rules themselves potentially making You risk again and again and loose money on stupid presence shit. And mind You - this "principal" stuff unless someone objects seriously will be enforced because sooner or later slow EU local guys will create their own compliant IPSPs, in EU even the law is much more liberal towards pornography , and as soon as there will be a base where to migrate these rules will be enforced because in essence they are good for us. However there's one small question - what happens to Your rebills and reserves on USA IPSPs when You will be thrown out? I'll tell You straight away - You wont see them. Because chargeback rate on rebills only without new signups is HORRIBLE. Just cancelling Your rebills will theoretically allow to save Your reserves however look at what has almost killed this business - simply GREED. What would have happened if VISA would go out of this business permanently? NOTHING. In 3 monthes everyone would be paying with MasterCard and Diners. What would have happened if VISA banned rebills? NOTHING. People pay exactly what they pay for a product. You cant really make how much they pay Yourself, the price always reflects the need. A BMW costs what people pay for it, more or less of course. Without rebills prices will be adjusted and that's it. However VISA doesnt want to go out of this market. And doesnt want to banish rebills. Because 70% of ONLINE sales are done with VISA, a card for everybody. Porn is almost the blood of internet now. You loose porn and in half a year You'll notice that VISA card is suddenly used less in the whole internet. Because if John Doe uses it for porn he will use it on Amazon as well. However if You prosecute for FRAUD hard the more people will go into internet shopping being less scared everyday to use their cards in the net where....guess what...VISA holds 70% of online sales. See the picture now? It's the greed and stupidity which kills it all. Visa who wants it all too fast and US IPSPs who brake the rules they bitch so much that everyone else is braking. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

08-18-2003, 12:43 AM	#44
p00p Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: CanaDUH Posts: 5,125	Interesting..... __________________ ICQ: 316365783 <a href="http://www.hostultra.com/~p00p" target="_blank">TEST</a>

08-18-2003, 01:34 AM	#45
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	Here's some more interesting info. http://www.corporate.visa.com/mc/press/press156.html What is said there is that visa brand is chosen by 50% (maximum) of respondents. In other words with the exception of USA market , where I guess numbers probably are the same, Visa is being used in 50% of credit card purchases, and that's according to VISA . When in online world all of us know that the actual number is 70%. And that is the answer to the evergoing question "Why?" and all cospiracy theories - at least 20% difference that's why. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

08-18-2003, 02:29 AM	#46
IMP^or^SNiTL.e A/S/L .. I don't names. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,177	go with globill

08-18-2003, 05:25 AM	#47
inthestars Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 2,021	Get your own merchant account. Third party will eventually be dead..

08-18-2003, 07:49 AM	#49
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	And visa/mastercard are non-profit organizations. What they do with all those non-profits?