Politics behind processor closures? - GoFuckYourself.com

tonkagunner · 08-01-2003, 06:30 PM

I am just trying to figure out why all these adult only billing companies have been getting shutdown.

It doesn't seem like a rational thing for a company such as Visa/Mastercard to stop probably their most profitable customers unless there are other reasons which outweigh this loss.

It seems that something as irrational as shutting down good customers must be linked to something else irrational such as religion or politics.

And, right now we have religious people in power at White House. Bush is religious and seems to have religious people surrounding him such as Ashhahahahaha, etc.

Mutt · 08-01-2003, 06:43 PM

there are many people who believe VISA and MC's actions have more to do with politics than anything to do with chargebacks and the shenanigans of scumbags in our industry. Supposedly there are some bankruptcy laws which affect the credit card associations negatively that VISA/MC are lobbying hard to be changed and part of the deal is that they will help the government regulate or get rid of the online porn biz in return for whatever.

detoxed · 08-01-2003, 06:43 PM

From what I've seen its mainly people that have been avoiding the rules/bending the rules that are closing down.

AdultKing · 08-01-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tonkagunner
I am just trying to figure out why all these adult only billing companies have been getting shutdown.

It doesn't seem like a rational thing for a company such as Visa/Mastercard to stop probably their most profitable customers unless there are other reasons which outweigh this loss.

....

The adult sector, despite it's size, is a relatively small portion of Visa/Mastercard overall business. It is however probably the area where a disproportionate amount of time is spent dealing with chargebacks.

Is there a new conservative right trying to influence society with it's idealogy ? Yes. Would many of the current administration in Australia and the USA like to shut down porn ? Sure thing. Is this the primary motivation behind the Visa/Mastercard action ? I don't think so.

I think there are a number of factors at play. Adult causes workload for the card associations due to chargebacks. Adult is not where card associations want to be associated. Card Associations want to create more products for teens , a strategy incompatible with dealing with porn.

There are a multitude of reasons behind the current problems, I think the majority of them have been the fault of the less reputable portions of this industry. If you want to lay blame look at "free" $64 trials, spammers, fine print cross sells and all the other tricks to con people out of their money.

A new era is coming for this industry, new payment systems will prevail and render Visa/MC a mere memory for adult sites. The new payment systems will learn from the past and will not tolerate the rip off merchants.

IPSP's are going to get out of adult or die. A few like ccBill and iBill will hang on for another 12 months but the fat lady is already singing, their demise is only a matter of time.

fantasyman · 08-01-2003, 07:05 PM

This is something I heard from someone else and I don't know if it holds any water.

There's an old urban legend that Senator Warren Hatch made a deal with Visa - they woud tighten up the bankrupcy laws and Visa would get rid of the AdultNet.

Well at the beginning of this year the bankrupcy laws were tightened up so you can't go bankrupt on credit card debt.

Do the math.

Also read this thread http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=159494

It makes no sense.

jimmyf · 08-01-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OzMedia

The adult sector, despite it's size, is a relatively small portion of Visa/Mastercard overall business. It is however probably the area where a disproportionate amount of time is spent dealing with chargebacks.

Is there a new conservative right trying to influence society with it's idealogy ? Yes. Would many of the current administration in Australia and the USA like to shut down porn ? Sure thing. Is this the primary motivation behind the Visa/Mastercard action ? I don't think so.

I think there are a number of factors at play. Adult causes workload for the card associations due to chargebacks. Adult is not where card associations want to be associated. Card Associations want to create more products for teens , a strategy incompatible with dealing with porn.

There are a multitude of reasons behind the current problems, I think the majority of them have been the fault of the less reputable portions of this industry. If you want to lay blame look at "free" $64 trials, spammers, fine print cross sells and all the other tricks to con people out of their money.

A new era is coming for this industry, new payment systems will prevail and render Visa/MC a mere memory for adult sites. The new payment systems will learn from the past and will not tolerate the rip off merchants.

IPSP's are going to get out of adult or die. A few like ccBill and iBill will hang on for another 12 months but the fat lady is already singing, their demise is only a matter of time.

---------------------------------------------
A new era is coming for this industry, new payment systems will prevail and render Visa/MC a mere memory for adult sites. The new payment systems will learn from the past and will not tolerate the rip off merchants.
---------------------------------------------
Maybe ccbill, ibill and others are working on such a system right now. Well from the post I see about ibill, I really don't think they can think ahead 1/2 day much less months.

jimmyf · 08-01-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantasyman
This is something I heard from someone else and I don't know if it holds any water.

There's an old urban legend that Senator Warren Hatch made a deal with Visa - they woud tighten up the bankrupcy laws and Visa would get rid of the AdultNet.

Well at the beginning of this year the bankrupcy laws were tightened up so you can't go bankrupt on credit card debt.

Do the math.

Also read this thread http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=159494

It makes no sense.

I would think more than Senator Warren Hatch were involved. A lot more

Kingfish · 08-01-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantasyman
This is something I heard from someone else and I don't know if it holds any water.

There's an old urban legend that Senator Warren Hatch made a deal with Visa - they woud tighten up the bankrupcy laws and Visa would get rid of the AdultNet.

Well at the beginning of this year the bankrupcy laws were tightened up so you can't go bankrupt on credit card debt.

Do the math.

Also read this thread http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=159494

It makes no sense.

Bankruptcy laws didn?t change it looked like they would, but in an ironic twist a group of conservative house members defeated it. They didn?t have a problem with the purposed non-dischargeable credit card debt. Their problem was that under the new rules you couldn?t discharge a civil judgment rendered against you for interfering with the operation of an abortion clinic. I still put a lot of credibility in the notion that the whole crack down was part of the bankruptcy reform deal. I first read about the issue in a trade magazine for bankruptcy attorneys. The article said their was a backroom deal cut where certain Republican congressmen would make it so credit card debt couldn?t be discharged in bankruptcy, and in exchange the credit card companies would quite processing transactions for online porn.

scoreman · 08-04-2003, 09:04 AM

What trade magazine was this? Can you provide more specifics?

BRISK · 08-04-2003, 09:13 AM

High risk processing is a rotten egg

Visa would like to have all its rotten eggs in one basket, so it can watch that basket carefully.

Having fewer 3rd party processors helps visa to weed out the rogue merchants.

12clicks · 08-04-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tonkagunner

It seems that something as irrational as shutting down good customers must be linked to something else irrational such as religion or politics.

Yes, it is irrational, that's why its not being done.
It's bad customers who are being shut down. nothing more.

Kingfish · 08-04-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scoreman
What trade magazine was this? Can you provide more specifics?

Unfortunately, I read so much stuff no I can?t. If you really want to dig you might try back issues of ABI World?s newsletter that goes out to members.

rebel23 · 08-04-2003, 10:26 AM

you mean Orrin Hatch ?

Que? · 08-04-2003, 10:37 AM

Globill gave companies on the Visa blacklist a chance to go on with Visa processing due to their neglience to make us companies register.

Globills reason for this is cuz they think they had (I do to) a working strategy to deal with fex chargebacks.

So yeah, I vote for politics not that makes any difference .
Its a shame nevertheless....

Webby · 08-04-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Politics behind processor closures?

Politics? Hell yeah!! There is LOADS of politics going on.

We have "conflicts of interest" between VISA's banking regions, who in turn are getting pressure from the respective governments in these regions. I have little doubt VISA/US is deep into politics with the US government.

There is a "war" going on out there - and it is not just about the adult business, but for "control" of financial markets - it is an "ecomonic war".

Fire · 08-04-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantasyman
This is something I heard from someone else and I don't know if it holds any water.

There's an old urban legend that Senator Warren Hatch made a deal with Visa - they woud tighten up the bankrupcy laws and Visa would get rid of the AdultNet.

Well at the beginning of this year the bankrupcy laws were tightened up so you can't go bankrupt on credit card debt.

Do the math.

Complete and utter BS since there is no Senator Warren Hatch...

scoreman · 08-04-2003, 01:21 PM

Its pretty obvious Ron was referring to Orrin Hatch.
Orrin Hatch

KRL · 08-04-2003, 01:22 PM

Nothing lasts forever. Change is inevitable anyway, just from new technologies and transactional processes on the horizon.

Who really has good things to say about MC/VISA anyway?

Tornado · 08-04-2003, 02:13 PM

I wish one morning i woul dwake up and Visa and Mastercard would be GONE! Everyone keeps talking about alternate payment methods independent of the credit card associations. I am waiting. I for one will be happy to coollect payment without VISA and MC involved. I just dont see how. However, i am sure one of the big boys in th eindustry has the vision.

directfiesta · 08-04-2003, 03:46 PM

All this " region" bullshit is strictly aimed at this time at adult...

No problem with International at CCnow

Quote:

International Sales

CCNow is one of the few e-commerce services that allows both International buyers and sellers to come together and conduct business via the Web. Many of our clients have discovered whole new groups of shoppers in different countries because of CCNow.

And no problem at paysystems, which process in the US. They tale all regions...

tonkagunner · 08-04-2003, 06:04 PM

It seems like the banking and Visa/Mastercard are very conservative. It feels like "Boogie Nights" when that black porn guy goes into bank to get a loan and the bank officer tells them that they won't lend to pornographers.

And fairly recently Mike from Silvercash had his bank acct taken away because Bank America found out he did porn.

It is all very ridiculus!

08-01-2003, 06:30 PM	#1
tonkagunner Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 830	Politics behind processor closures? I am just trying to figure out why all these adult only billing companies have been getting shutdown. It doesn't seem like a rational thing for a company such as Visa/Mastercard to stop probably their most profitable customers unless there are other reasons which outweigh this loss. It seems that something as irrational as shutting down good customers must be linked to something else irrational such as religion or politics. And, right now we have religious people in power at White House. Bush is religious and seems to have religious people surrounding him such as Ashhahahahaha, etc. __________________ Traffic Cash Gold

08-01-2003, 06:43 PM	#2
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	there are many people who believe VISA and MC's actions have more to do with politics than anything to do with chargebacks and the shenanigans of scumbags in our industry. Supposedly there are some bankruptcy laws which affect the credit card associations negatively that VISA/MC are lobbying hard to be changed and part of the deal is that they will help the government regulate or get rid of the online porn biz in return for whatever. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

08-04-2003, 09:04 AM	#9
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	What trade magazine was this? Can you provide more specifics? __________________

08-04-2003, 09:13 AM	#10
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	High risk processing is a rotten egg Visa would like to have all its rotten eggs in one basket, so it can watch that basket carefully. Having fewer 3rd party processors helps visa to weed out the rogue merchants. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

08-04-2003, 10:37 AM	#14
Que? Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 340	Globill gave companies on the Visa blacklist a chance to go on with Visa processing due to their neglience to make us companies register. Globills reason for this is cuz they think they had (I do to) a working strategy to deal with fex chargebacks. So yeah, I vote for politics not that makes any difference . Its a shame nevertheless.... __________________ Send ccia out to deep space:<br> Donate to <a href="http://www.impai.org/">IMPA</a>

08-01-2003, 06:43 PM	#3
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	From what I've seen its mainly people that have been avoiding the rules/bending the rules that are closing down.

08-01-2003, 07:05 PM	#5
fantasyman Let's do some business together Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 973	This is something I heard from someone else and I don't know if it holds any water. There's an old urban legend that Senator Warren Hatch made a deal with Visa - they woud tighten up the bankrupcy laws and Visa would get rid of the AdultNet. Well at the beginning of this year the bankrupcy laws were tightened up so you can't go bankrupt on credit card debt. Do the math. Also read this thread http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=159494 It makes no sense.

08-04-2003, 10:26 AM	#13
rebel23 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 817	you mean Orrin Hatch ?

08-04-2003, 01:21 PM	#17
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	Its pretty obvious Ron was referring to Orrin Hatch. Orrin Hatch __________________ Last edited by scoreman; 08-04-2003 at 01:23 PM..

08-04-2003, 01:22 PM	#18
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	Nothing lasts forever. Change is inevitable anyway, just from new technologies and transactional processes on the horizon. Who really has good things to say about MC/VISA anyway? __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

08-04-2003, 02:13 PM	#19
Tornado Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 287	I wish one morning i woul dwake up and Visa and Mastercard would be GONE! Everyone keeps talking about alternate payment methods independent of the credit card associations. I am waiting. I for one will be happy to coollect payment without VISA and MC involved. I just dont see how. However, i am sure one of the big boys in th eindustry has the vision.

08-04-2003, 06:04 PM	#21
tonkagunner Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 830	It seems like the banking and Visa/Mastercard are very conservative. It feels like "Boogie Nights" when that black porn guy goes into bank to get a loan and the bank officer tells them that they won't lend to pornographers. And fairly recently Mike from Silvercash had his bank acct taken away because Bank America found out he did porn. It is all very ridiculus! __________________ Traffic Cash Gold