So now you're trying to blame TGP's and free porn for paysites have sneaky billing?

You know what the problem is? Too damn many paysites that are boring and unoriginal whose product isn't worth shit, so the only way they can make money is by trying to fuck surfers over.

crappy members section,
only reason why people sign up is they want "more" and members areas suck ass!

You guys just don't get it...

Not sure about other programs but we spend alot of money on our members section monthly.

Why would someone stay a member if they can spank it for free!

Like I said ask all your friends if they would pay for it and see what they say

Btw Rog I *have* asked non-porn friends (all guys) if they had ever joined a porn site and all 7 of them (they were in a group at the time) said "Why the hell would I do that? I can get all the hardcore shit I want for free!"
And then of course they started sharing URLs like Thumbzilla, Sublime, and TheHun.

boring and unoriginal give me a break.

what does it take to get you off? Let me know cause I bet I can find it so you don't have to pay for it

Looks like everyone is still wasting their time on this one. Pornking has decided that his sales strategy is fair and nobody's going to change his mind.

This in a nutshell is the real problem in this industry. The snake oil salesmen have somehow convinced themselves that they are clever marketers and businessmen. Back in the real world, anyone with a shred of "normal" business ethics would look at these stratagies and know that they are fundamentally wrong.

On a separate note, has anyone ever looked at the T & C's of almost every free or paid trial site out there. You will usually find the cancellation terms somewhere around word 1,000 +, usually prededed by the standard Copyright...you will not share these pictures...blah blah blah. Even the most diehard legal beagle will close the page long before they get to the part which tells them that their trial most likely needs to be cancelled and sometimes 24 hours before end of trial, to avoid rebill.

Think this is fair..give your head a shake!!

since your such a guru on what is right and what is not.
what is your paysite or do you only promote adultfriendfinder.
since thats the place to meet your dream date.

has anyone or anyone here know of someone finding there dream date on adultfriendfinder as anyone gotten laid form that site. anything fell free to post it.

What is deceptive about Porn4aBuck? please enlighten me.

Let me guess the cross sells? everyone can see them plain as day. if they were a problem don't you think the proccessors would remove them completely. and if they do I don't have a problem with it.
that just means lower payouts for the webmasters and the average retentian will still be 2 months

unless you have a plan to help everyone here please feel free to post it

all you do is complain

So why do some sites do well on TGP traffic?

CFF. Did well.

Oxcash. Did well.

Nasty Dollars. Did well.

Lightspeed. Did well.

Quiet's site. Does well on gallery traffic.

What do they all have in common? It's not a set of leased feeds and it's not the fact they have 100 different "niche" tours.

what do you mean by did well.

did well to convert it?

I don't know what there average retention is maybe they will post it

just cause they converted because someone just wanted to see whats inside doesn't mean its good enough to keep paying for it

unless they can only jack off to there content. they will realize they can get it free where they came from.

most people live pay check to pay check they don't have the money to pay for it. they are just curious and its an impluse buy.

so what should we do to keep them paying? I think we need to censor the free shit just my:2 cents:

i keep seeing you say to censor the free shit. but the problem is, us webmasters have to do that and they will decrease our signup count for a longtime. while we wait for everyone else to censor their pics/etc. but your gonna still be doing the same thing your doing now... making the same money you do now. its easy for you to say thats the problem because you dont have to do anything to fix it....

your right thats not my thing i run paysites.

I'm just saying if you guys want to make more.
the free porn needs to be censored I'm not saying remove it just censor the pink.

that means you and I will both make more

the way things are headed will both be making less

and how will it decrease your signups? I don't get it. it will increase them cause they will pay to see more

My plan is simple...honest practices...no tricks. Yes, the profit will be significantly reduced for both the program owners and the webmasters who promote the sites....but still way above the ROI you could expect from any mainstream business.

Does this mean no paid trials? Not at all. A mainstream (I should add- an "honest" mainstream business) would price the product trials so that these were also part of the total profit picture. And then with CLEAR disclosure the consumer would be able to make an educated choice as to whether or not to continue his/her membership. If they cancel, well so be it. The paid trial will still contribute to the bottom line.

And while you are at it...and this certainly doesn't just apply to your program...the elimination of outrageously high payments to webmasters for free or paid trials would certainly be a step in the right direction. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that $30 + paid to webmasters for trials couldn't be supported without a deceptive strategy.

And no, I don't just promote AFF, but I DO only promote programs with rev share - no trials - no cross sells - in a nutshell - quality honest programs.

it will decrease cuz of all the other webmasters not censoring.... they are just gonna close our pages and skip to the next

Oh I see what you mean..

hmmm let me think about it. unless anyone has any ideas

In our case fraudulent webmasters caused the majority of chargebacks by far. If you are running a program and paying a high PPS or even a high recurring % (a couple of months worth of full memberships mixed with trials etc ) you will get stung - as we did.

Chargebacks are *miniscule* for all our internal traffic.

Having said that, I have had the *good fortune* of having my sites included on a stack of password sites lately, so while I have been busy scanning those lists and removing the usernames etc I have checked out a HEAP of members areas...

Without a hint of exaggeration, every one of them has been a fuckin' disgrace!!

I mean..
- having bright flashing banner gifs above the plug-in movie viewing screens - trying to upsell something else so you can't even view the movies properly.
- having dialler popups *inside* members areas that you can't get rid of.
- not to mention the standard half a dozen picture sets, a couple of videos and some second rate movie plug-ins....being the sum total of the content.

So if I ever got conned into parting with money for any of this shit - I would seek a refund instantly.

:2 cents:

I can live with that. we already have Clear disclosure

but the only way people will not cancel is if they can't get it free
:2 cents: supply and demand

I don't no of any other industry that gives the golden goose away
then expects people to pay for it.

why do you think napster is gone.

Uhh... what? You're telling me Napster is no longer operating because of supply and demand?

I'm telling you the music industry wasn't going to give away all there music for free. why even be in business then.

they cut off that free supply so now they have to pay for it simple

What?

The music industry was never giving any music away free, let alone all of it. It was the common consumer who was giving the music away free. And the free supply wasn't cut off, it's still there. People are still taking the music free off the Internet, nobody is paying except the Mac users with that new service.

Napster wasn't shut down because the music industry cut off their free music supply. They were ordered to shut down.

Ok and why were they ordered? why would they do that to such a great idea?


http://pittsford.monroe.edu/jefferso.../EconMain.html

Many times advertisers try to appeal to consumers in such a way that the consumers feel they needs certain goods or services when in fact they only want them.

I got it we need to make surfers feel they need Porn

http://pittsford.monroe.edu/jefferso.../NeedWant.html

ok I'm getting tired be back later

Roger what you're saying makes sense in theory, but there are alot of exceptions to the don't give away too much rule.

A free site is supposed to be free samples to sell the sponsor correct?
So how do you sell a cumshot site or a gangbang site or an anal sex site with only softcore pictures?

What good does it do you to censor the pink on a big tits page? The surfer at that page wants to see big tits, which by the "censor the pink" theory are ok to show to the surfer, so he saw what he wanted to see and doesn't need to join a site now.

Why do movie galleries convert better than picture galleries? (Almost anyone who's ever done both will tell you that the movie galleries get more signups)
I'm giving away free hardcore movies and I get more signups than if I give away free softcore pics.

My theory on why retention is low has nothing to do with free porn, its always been out there and will always be out there.
The problem with retention is too many paysites. A surfer used to join Kara's or Cybererotica and stay for six months because there were no other options.
Now there is a smorgasboard of paysites producing their own content. You can buy 5 trials a month for a year and never see the same content twice.

McDonald's had better "retention" before burker king, wendy's, rally's etc. came onto the scene.