Anyone Know Jimmy-3-Way? - GoFuckYourself.com

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 10:08 AM

This guy wrote me wanting 2 galleries designed and when I said I wanted half the money upfront he made a big deal about it...Said he was "dubious" about paying upfront and that his rep speaks for itself and he shouldn't have to...though he wouldn't tell me what he does.

He went on about how much he makes...so you wouldn't think he'd have a problem paying $35 upfront...lol.

Time is money and I'm not designing free galleries....especially when it's standard to make part of the payment before the job.

This was his explanation for the whole thing...

"it has to do with getting shit done on deadline. If you got my moeny you aren't hungry enough to work, if you can deliver your shit you'd have a Paypal by tomorrow."

Hungry?? 2 Galleries

Anyway...Just wondering is anyone knew of him/"his rep"

Thanks,
PM

TheEbonyFelony · 06-19-2003, 10:14 AM

i fucked him

JFPdude · 06-19-2003, 10:15 AM

I never had a problem in all my dealings with him ...

Stand up guy

PerfectionGirls · 06-19-2003, 10:22 AM

Good guy.. never a problem. Why would you talk about a future customer like that man? Jimmy is a good guy and I would trust him for the $35.00.

candyflip · 06-19-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerfectionGirls
Good guy.. never a problem. Why would you talk about a future customer like that man? Jimmy is a good guy and I would trust him for the $35.00.

Probably because he was talking himself up and was trying to rely on his "rep". PotentMind doesn't know him or his rep...he's just going by the conversation.

From what he said, I'd be suspect as well if I didn't know who he was or what site/program he was with.

pink_in_the_middle · 06-19-2003, 10:27 AM

If I were a designer I would make sure I get the cash upfront. Simple as that. When you go to the grocery store *for example* they don't front you so why would this be any diffrent?

If you want work done then you pay for work done. If not go to someone who will front you their work.

For my cam shows it's 1005 upfront. Doesn't matter how much the guys spends on a reg. basis. Work is work. Until I see that he has paid he gets nothing. If it's an e-cheque I wait until it clears.

machineg · 06-19-2003, 10:28 AM

I dont know him ..
But I always take payment upfront .
in full under orders of $500,
I have turned away customers that don't want to pay upfront ,

I have to keep to this policy , cause eventually you will get screwed .
not saying that Jimmy 3 way will screw you .
but if you allow customers to decide YOUR policies you'll get fucked someday by someone .

I would tell him its %50 upfront or go elsewhere .

PerfectionGirls · 06-19-2003, 10:29 AM

Yeah... I agree with you guys, but no need to copy and paste private conversations in order to find out if someone is legit.

JMHO

Gutterboy · 06-19-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip

From what he said, I'd be suspect as well if I didn't know who he was or what site/program he was with.

ditto

Mr.Fiction · 06-19-2003, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerfectionGirls
no need to copy and paste private conversations in order to find out if someone is legit.

There are probably better ways.

candyflip · 06-19-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerfectionGirls
Yeah... I agree with you guys, but no need to copy and paste private conversations in order to find out if someone is legit.

JMHO

He didn't post convo logs...just a quote from the conversation. It's sort of relevant to his question...but that's just my

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip

He didn't post convo logs...just a quote from the conversation. It's sort of relevant to his question...but that's just my

exactly, thanks

Jason · 06-19-2003, 10:48 AM

I know James. He's my bud. We partied Tucson style..

He's part of the CJ crew.. He's all good.

bryany · 06-19-2003, 11:10 AM

Ill second that, he is a good guy, been in the biz for a while.

Cant dress for shit, but thats ok.. Just messin

jimmy3way · 06-19-2003, 11:20 AM

You have got to be shitting me.

Grow the fuck up, kid. I offered you some work, you acted like a dick about it over $35.

Simple fact: I don't pay upfront to guys I don't know. Especially designers and programmers.

If you already have your money what incentive is there for you to deliver?

Do you go to a job interview and ask for your first week's pay upfront? Fuck no.

corvette · 06-19-2003, 11:20 AM

from my dealings with Jimmy, he has always shown to be a stand up guy

jimmy3way · 06-19-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryany
Ill second that, he is a good guy, been in the biz for a while.

Cant dress for shit, but thats ok.. Just messin

This is the best thing you could come up with to say about me?

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryany
Ill second that, he is a good guy, been in the biz for a while.

Cant dress for shit, but thats ok.. Just messin

well then he should understand designers aren't going to do work right upfront, until they see something for it.

GrimShawn · 06-19-2003, 11:22 AM

Good guy, good company, make the fucking gallery and get your 35 when it's done lol!!

Jason · 06-19-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryany
Ill second that, he is a good guy, been in the biz for a while.

Cant dress for shit, but thats ok.. Just messin

LOL

candyflip · 06-19-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmy3way
Grow the fuck up, kid. I offered you some work, you acted like a dick about it over $35.

Seems like you both feel the same way about it. Why not meet in the middle and put down a deposit. Just like you're afraid to get screw, so is he. It's not about the money. He has policy for his operation and doesn't need or want someone dictating to him how he should run his business.

You were asking him to allow you to pay after based on your "rep". He had never heard of "Jimmy3Way" so he came here to ask. If you come across as being a dick...that's not his fault.

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmy3way
You have got to be shitting me.

Grow the fuck up, kid. I offered you some work, you acted like a dick about it over $35.

Simple fact: I don't pay upfront to guys I don't know. Especially designers and programmers.

If you already have your money what incentive is there for you to deliver?

Do you go to a job interview and ask for your first week's pay upfront? Fuck no.

How did I act like a dick?

Rochard · 06-19-2003, 11:27 AM

I know Jimmy; In fact, I was chatting with him on ICQ when I came across this thread.

There are very few people that I trust in this business, but Jimmy3way is on the top of that list. I've never heard a bad word spoken about him - Ever.

Lightspeed Media has tried to hire him a number of times, but it's never worked out for one reason or another. I'd love to have him working for me.

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 11:27 AM

I wanted part of the payment upfront liek any other designer and you refused and then started putting me down...if anyone was acting like a dick, it was you.

jimmy3way · 06-19-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornDollar

LOL

Hater.

bryany · 06-19-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
I know Jimmy; In fact, I was chatting with him on ICQ when I came across this thread.

There are very few people that I trust in this business, but Jimmy3way is on the top of that list. I've never heard a bad word spoken about him - Ever.

Lightspeed Media has tried to hire him a number of times, but it's never worked out for one reason or another. I'd love to have him working for me.

You just want him to sit on your lap because I wont

InsaneMidget · 06-19-2003, 11:36 AM

A deposit or 50% upfront is mandatory for me and most designers. If people don't like that, I send them references of past clients, which usually clears their mind of any doubt.

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 11:43 AM

Seriously man, you want to come on here and tell people that I was a dick to you...tell me how? I'd be quite interested in hearing this.

Sly_RJ · 06-19-2003, 11:44 AM

When I go to someone to have work done, I play by their rules. I need them, they don't need me.

When someone comes to me asking for work, they play by my rules. They need me, I don't need them.

But hey, that's just me...

Mr.Fiction · 06-19-2003, 11:47 AM

$35 fucking dollars? GFY should charge more than that to start a thread.

Clean this place up.

DarkJedi · 06-19-2003, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmy3way

Simple fact: I don't pay upfront to guys I don't know. Especially designers and programmers.

what he said.

I've been screwed by a designer before.
And he was no newb either - a lot of ppl knew him.

TarPy · 06-19-2003, 12:07 PM

Business is business...

If your reputation speaks for itself, then you don't have to say anything, you just ask for it to be done, and they know it's in their best interest to get started.

In this case, the reputation didn't speak for iteself. For either of you.

Jimmy, if you wanted him to trust you on the payment, bragging about your salary and shit just makes you sound like a cheat. We've had our shit, but I know you know enough people, so send him a reference he would know. Marc Womack, and RocHard seem like people he'd be able to take the reference from.

Potent Mind, same to you buddy. 50% up front for all design jobs is pretty standard as is 100% upfront for work under $500. good for you, set your own policies. But, that being said, when a customer doubts you, you have GOT to know that designers and programers flake out all the time with people's money. So you should have a list of references from past jobs just waiting for someone to doubt you. Nothing shuts them up like the truth, so just be like, "I deliver 100% of the time. Ask any of these 20 guys, and it would be a finished convorsation. If you aren't comfortable with that, I'm sorry we couldn't work something out." Unless you really need this $70 job that bad, in which case you are in the spot, not him. And this way, you wouldn't risk anyone getting a negative view of you like some seem to have on this thread.

Bottom line: The customer is always right, but he may not be the right customer for you, so he can go be right someplace else, or you can take the work. This could have been handled better, I hope it was a learning experience all around.

TarPy

DarkJedi · 06-19-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkJedi

what he said.

I've been screwed by a designer before.
And he was no newb either - a lot of ppl knew him.

I payed him upfront.
After that do you know how much time it took him to design a LOGO ? 1 month.

SixNine · 06-19-2003, 12:16 PM

Fuckit I'll generalize...

Designers and Programmers are lazy as fuck. Even with 50% up front they slow down to 0 miles and hour and pay no attention to deadlines.

Jimmy 3 Way is very established. Not knowing who he is says something for who you are. And I'm pretty sure he's operating on the above premise.

Make the damn gallery and start networking and making a name for yourself, before you know it you'll be laughing about this thread.

Good luck

jimmy3way · 06-19-2003, 12:19 PM

Damn SixNine! Thanks, very kind words.

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SixNine
Fuckit I'll generalize...

Designers and Programmers are lazy as fuck. Even with 50% up front they slow down to 0 miles and hour and pay no attention to deadlines.

Jimmy 3 Way is very established. Not knowing who he is says something for who you are. And I'm pretty sure he's operating on the above premise.

Make the damn gallery and start networking and making a name for yourself, before you know it you'll be laughing about this thread.

Good luck

I've been around a lot longer than most of you

Techie Media · 06-19-2003, 05:43 PM

I just saw this thread and I had to give my 2 cents for Jimmy. I've known him for a fairly long time and have to say Jimmy is one of the most honest, hard working people I deal with in this biz. His word is golden in my opinion, I will vouch for him anyday, anyplace...Jimmy3way is a stand up guy

Keev · 06-19-2003, 07:23 PM

LOL Jimmy

Good shit, Stand up guy, I have had my run ins with programmers and designers so unless they have a repuation I am very cautious in fronting money on projects...

lagwagon · 06-19-2003, 07:33 PM

jimmy 3 way, hmmm i liked listening to the guy talk and he has a lot of energy. lol, also i have to agree with the "how can you expect payment up front for no work". isnt that what homeless people do? plus he lives by me so if there is a situation i can meet him in person.

MetaMan · 06-19-2003, 07:36 PM

all u dum asses stfu,
just because he is a stand uo guy blah blah blah,
dont mean shit all,
buddy cant pay $17.50 upfront wat a foo.

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MetaMan
all u dum asses stfu,
just because he is a stand uo guy blah blah blah,
dont mean shit all,
buddy cant pay $17.50 upfront wat a foo.

Actually it was $35, cause he wanted 2 Galleries done. $75 total.

But my point as well.

Not sure what to think of him...a "stand up guy"/"classy guy" wouldn't come on here and say things like I was being a dick to him and then not back his words up.

In no way whatsoever was I, I simply stated that I couldn't do the work without receiving half the money and he refused.

Anyone would wonder...especially when the guy's going on about how much he makes....$35 should be nothing to him.

Ironhorse · 06-19-2003, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SixNine
Fuckit I'll generalize...

Designers and Programmers are lazy as fuck. Even with 50% up front they slow down to 0 miles and hour and pay no attention to deadlines.

Jimmy 3 Way is very established. Not knowing who he is says something for who you are. And I'm pretty sure he's operating on the above premise.

Make the damn gallery and start networking and making a name for yourself, before you know it you'll be laughing about this thread.

Good luck

You should know that most designers have other projects in the works, and your expectation to have your work delivered 'instantaneously' for bottom dollar is naive at best. Standard turnaround is 2 weeks and if any designer squeezes you in earlier they are either doing for extra $, they are new or they love you to death.

I have never heard of Jimmy 3 Way myself and I've been in adult almost 5 years. So just because you think you are a superstar doesn't mean every one else does. Put it in perspective.

PotentMind · 06-19-2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ironhorse

You should know that most designers have other projects in the works, and your expectation to have your work delivered 'instantaneously' for bottom dollar is naive at best. Standard turnaround is 2 weeks and if any designer squeezes you in earlier they are either doing for extra $, they are new or they love you to death.

I have never heard of Jimmy 3 Way myself and I've been in adult almost 5 years. So just because you think you are a superstar doesn't mean every one else does. Put it in perspective.

Exactly man! good point.

I've been around twice as long as you, know a lot of people and have never heard of him.

06-19-2003, 10:08 AM	#1
PotentMind Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 751	Anyone Know Jimmy-3-Way? This guy wrote me wanting 2 galleries designed and when I said I wanted half the money upfront he made a big deal about it...Said he was "dubious" about paying upfront and that his rep speaks for itself and he shouldn't have to...though he wouldn't tell me what he does. He went on about how much he makes...so you wouldn't think he'd have a problem paying $35 upfront...lol. Time is money and I'm not designing free galleries....especially when it's standard to make part of the payment before the job. This was his explanation for the whole thing... "it has to do with getting shit done on deadline. If you got my moeny you aren't hungry enough to work, if you can deliver your shit you'd have a Paypal by tomorrow." Hungry?? 2 Galleries Anyway...Just wondering is anyone knew of him/"his rep" Thanks, PM __________________ Icq: 191932060

06-19-2003, 10:14 AM	#2
TheEbonyFelony Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: hidden village of the sand..TRAINING TO KILL NARUTO Posts: 1,964	i fucked him __________________ no you cannot know what im promoting you nosey fucks!

06-19-2003, 10:22 AM	#4
PerfectionGirls Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: MI Posts: 4,484	Good guy.. never a problem. Why would you talk about a future customer like that man? Jimmy is a good guy and I would trust him for the $35.00. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

06-19-2003, 10:27 AM	#6
pink_in_the_middle Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: O Canada Posts: 4,503	If I were a designer I would make sure I get the cash upfront. Simple as that. When you go to the grocery store for example they don't front you so why would this be any diffrent? If you want work done then you pay for work done. If not go to someone who will front you their work. For my cam shows it's 1005 upfront. Doesn't matter how much the guys spends on a reg. basis. Work is work. Until I see that he has paid he gets nothing. If it's an e-cheque I wait until it clears. __________________ pinkysteph AT gmail DOT com I'm a native english speaker from Canada with a firm ass, excellent grammar and punctuation skills. If you're in need of text for your: blog, paysite galleries, DVD covers, image cropping, content purchasing, content insertion or anything else along these lines, please feel free to give me a shout. And I’m female to boot Last edited by pink_in_the_middle; 06-19-2003 at 10:30 AM..

06-19-2003, 10:28 AM	#7
machineg Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,090	I dont know him .. But I always take payment upfront . in full under orders of $500, I have turned away customers that don't want to pay upfront , I have to keep to this policy , cause eventually you will get screwed . not saying that Jimmy 3 way will screw you . but if you allow customers to decide YOUR policies you'll get fucked someday by someone . I would tell him its %50 upfront or go elsewhere . __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

06-19-2003, 10:15 AM	#3
JFPdude Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mountains of Western North Carolina. Posts: 4,027	I never had a problem in all my dealings with him ... Stand up guy

06-19-2003, 10:29 AM	#8
PerfectionGirls Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: MI Posts: 4,484	Yeah... I agree with you guys, but no need to copy and paste private conversations in order to find out if someone is legit. JMHO __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

06-19-2003, 10:48 AM	#13
Jason Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,287	I know James. He's my bud. We partied Tucson style.. He's part of the CJ crew.. He's all good. __________________ I stay busy.

06-19-2003, 11:10 AM	#14
bryany Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: AZ Posts: 2,037	Ill second that, he is a good guy, been in the biz for a while. Cant dress for shit, but thats ok.. Just messin __________________ ya ya, I'll fill this in later...

06-19-2003, 11:20 AM	#15
jimmy3way Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Top Secret Hideout Posts: 2,508	You have got to be shitting me. Grow the fuck up, kid. I offered you some work, you acted like a dick about it over $35. Simple fact: I don't pay upfront to guys I don't know. Especially designers and programmers. If you already have your money what incentive is there for you to deliver? Do you go to a job interview and ask for your first week's pay upfront? Fuck no. __________________ One thing, I forgot this last detail: the Biz Markie will always prevail.

06-19-2003, 11:20 AM	#16
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	from my dealings with Jimmy, he has always shown to be a stand up guy __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

06-19-2003, 11:22 AM	#19
GrimShawn Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: BONEPRONE MANSION serving drinks! Posts: 8,120	Good guy, good company, make the fucking gallery and get your 35 when it's done lol!!

06-19-2003, 11:27 AM	#23
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 74,693	I know Jimmy; In fact, I was chatting with him on ICQ when I came across this thread. There are very few people that I trust in this business, but Jimmy3way is on the top of that list. I've never heard a bad word spoken about him - Ever. Lightspeed Media has tried to hire him a number of times, but it's never worked out for one reason or another. I'd love to have him working for me. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

06-19-2003, 11:36 AM	#27
InsaneMidget Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,767	A deposit or 50% upfront is mandatory for me and most designers. If people don't like that, I send them references of past clients, which usually clears their mind of any doubt.

06-19-2003, 11:43 AM	#28
PotentMind Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 751	Seriously man, you want to come on here and tell people that I was a dick to you...tell me how? I'd be quite interested in hearing this. __________________ Icq: 191932060

06-19-2003, 11:44 AM	#29
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	When I go to someone to have work done, I play by their rules. I need them, they don't need me. When someone comes to me asking for work, they play by my rules. They need me, I don't need them. But hey, that's just me... __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

06-19-2003, 11:47 AM	#30
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	$35 fucking dollars? GFY should charge more than that to start a thread. Clean this place up.

06-19-2003, 12:07 PM	#32
TarPy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 758	Business is business... If your reputation speaks for itself, then you don't have to say anything, you just ask for it to be done, and they know it's in their best interest to get started. In this case, the reputation didn't speak for iteself. For either of you. Jimmy, if you wanted him to trust you on the payment, bragging about your salary and shit just makes you sound like a cheat. We've had our shit, but I know you know enough people, so send him a reference he would know. Marc Womack, and RocHard seem like people he'd be able to take the reference from. Potent Mind, same to you buddy. 50% up front for all design jobs is pretty standard as is 100% upfront for work under $500. good for you, set your own policies. But, that being said, when a customer doubts you, you have GOT to know that designers and programers flake out all the time with people's money. So you should have a list of references from past jobs just waiting for someone to doubt you. Nothing shuts them up like the truth, so just be like, "I deliver 100% of the time. Ask any of these 20 guys, and it would be a finished convorsation. If you aren't comfortable with that, I'm sorry we couldn't work something out." Unless you really need this $70 job that bad, in which case you are in the spot, not him. And this way, you wouldn't risk anyone getting a negative view of you like some seem to have on this thread. Bottom line: The customer is always right, but he may not be the right customer for you, so he can go be right someplace else, or you can take the work. This could have been handled better, I hope it was a learning experience all around. TarPy __________________ Not Working

06-19-2003, 12:16 PM	#34
SixNine Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Sea Town Posts: 1,357	Fuckit I'll generalize... Designers and Programmers are lazy as fuck. Even with 50% up front they slow down to 0 miles and hour and pay no attention to deadlines. Jimmy 3 Way is very established. Not knowing who he is says something for who you are. And I'm pretty sure he's operating on the above premise. Make the damn gallery and start networking and making a name for yourself, before you know it you'll be laughing about this thread. Good luck

06-19-2003, 12:19 PM	#35
jimmy3way Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Top Secret Hideout Posts: 2,508	Damn SixNine! Thanks, very kind words. __________________ One thing, I forgot this last detail: the Biz Markie will always prevail.

06-19-2003, 05:43 PM	#37
Techie Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,092	I just saw this thread and I had to give my 2 cents for Jimmy. I've known him for a fairly long time and have to say Jimmy is one of the most honest, hard working people I deal with in this biz. His word is golden in my opinion, I will vouch for him anyday, anyplace...Jimmy3way is a stand up guy __________________ sales [AT] techiemedia.com

06-19-2003, 07:23 PM	#38
Keev Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 5,335	LOL Jimmy Good shit, Stand up guy, I have had my run ins with programmers and designers so unless they have a repuation I am very cautious in fronting money on projects... __________________ ReliableServers.com - NO REF LINK!

06-19-2003, 07:33 PM	#39
lagwagon Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: az Posts: 8,464	jimmy 3 way, hmmm i liked listening to the guy talk and he has a lot of energy. lol, also i have to agree with the "how can you expect payment up front for no work". isnt that what homeless people do? plus he lives by me so if there is a situation i can meet him in person. __________________ FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

06-19-2003, 07:36 PM	#40
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	all u dum asses stfu, just because he is a stand uo guy blah blah blah, dont mean shit all, buddy cant pay $17.50 upfront wat a foo.