Another 50 for me.:321GFY

51 :321GFY

52 :321GFY

Someone asked "How do you define terrorism"... The answer is simple:

When a group, whether state sanctions or otherwise, fights an enemy which is a state by attacking (or simply terrorizing) civilians.

So, some republican groups are terrorists because their primary tools in their fight are bombing civilian targets, inciting street violence, and bullying the majority of the population who disagree with their position.

Those republican groups who work primarily through political means are not terrorists (or at least to a lesser degree). Those unionist groups that pull the same crap as the republicans are also terrorists.

Despite what people will try and tell you, some people just deserve to die.

Well I can agree with most of that. If I were in the position of the IRA I would personally attack the politicians and military that are directly opposed to me, but not civilians.

Ah. So you seem to agree that the IRA shouldn't participate in terrorism. (And presumably thus that they are, in fact, terrorists.)

Why, then, don't you put them in the same category as terrorist who happen to be arab moslems, who also choose those methods to fight their enemies? More importantly, why doesn't the US government?

When the people are afraid, the government is afraid.

A true terrorist would target children and clergy.

I say its time to put the terror back in terrorism.

Either you take "devil's advocate" too far, or you are insane. Either way, you're a waste of time. "Ignore" button Ahoy!

Some people just fear the truth.

Blow up a few elementary schools and see how quick the government starts paying attention.

Ignore button, what a little girl.

I think it just depends honestly, you have to be able to justify your actions. Many are of the opinion that as a citizen of a freely elected government that you should be held as liable as the elected officials so therefore citizens aren't innocent and never are. Attacking citizens is done to bring attention and fear in the people and thus force them to confront their government, it has a low success rate but if mixed with the right strategy can be effective on occasion.

OK, if Patriot Act II goes through as it is now...speak out against the gov in *any* form, you get hauled in. You get the "secret trial" treatment. Basically any anti-abortion activist could fall under this law. They disappear you.

8 weeks since the fall of Iraq. The ICRC (Red Cross) won't say if or if not the "most wanted Iraqi officials" have been checked to see if the US is in compliance with international law for human rights violations. The "detainees" @ Guantanamo are being held in violation of intl law. You feel cozy now? Just like the rules of posse comitatus which are broken "out of necessity" every Bill of Rights and Constitutional guarantee is up for grabs. They aim to preserve power at ANY cost, are good at spin, and have clearly a goal to stay in power. This is subtle yet effective grab for everything, and I worry everything will be lost. We're not talking four more years - we're talking as long as it takes, because good lawyers can fix just about anything.

-doug

And this would have nothing to do with the fact that Protestants are still the majority of the population in Northern Ireland.

Dude, you're in no position to be mocking someone else's knowledge of Ireland/N. Ireland. The British ruled all of Ireland, up until the Anglo-Irish war which started in 1919. Does the name Michael Collins ring a bell, at all?

Here's a problem. It's a democracy, as yo say. If the *other* citizens are responsible, why don't the republicans hold themselves responsible, too? They vote. Anyone who resorts to violence in a democracy is in the wrong.

True, they are - Many Catholics also voted for and many protestants are against.

Problems in the North are currently more to do with rival gangs dealing in drugs than any form of terrorism - Unfortunately terrorism is often used as a cover.

I'm starting to like this Labret fellow more and more.

You people know this is really true, right? It is. Really. Shit like this is why you should be scared.

Actually Chodadog, no it didnt.
Yes I know who Michael Collins was, the republican army started in 1919, but the war has been going on for hundreds of years.

As far as mocking someones knowledge of Ireland, I was born and raised untill 16 in Armagh, capitol of the "terrorist IRA"

Heres some fun pictures for you...


Heres a local view of the downtown section of http://irelandsown.net/crossmalglenbarracks.jpg



Of course if you want to drive out of town then you have this:


http://irelandsown.net/Checkpoint.jpg



This is normal dress for the British SAS, you know, the ones that arent supposed to be there anymore after the Good Friday Agreement from years ago...



http://irelandsown.net/Armedparas.jpg


Untill you know you dont... The IRA arent terrorsits, England by their own agreement isnt even supposed to be there anymore...

Heh

That's what I thought, a repressed homophobic homo

And you're French.

Who do I feel more sorry for?

Silly boy.

Even the name "Irish Republican Army" means they are a terrorist organization.

IF - hostilities are over.

Then the IRA shouldn't exist any more.

If it does, it's a terrorist organization.

And I'm pretty sure any 'army' that doesn't belong to a country, is a terrorist organization.

Think before you type. :2 cents:

North Ireland is it's own country, the republican party has chosen the IRA as "their" army.


The Good Friday agreemtn stated that if the IRA disbanded and was proven to have destroyed their weapons the English would leave.


England then stated publicly that they were satisfied the IRA had destoryed most if not all of their weapons.


8 years later, England is still there...

Why?

I must have missed that day.

:eek7

And then they got invaded, and lost, and have been whining about it since. I think they should just build them some reservations, and not charge them tax, and give them a casino.

According to your logic then, in the US the Democrats and Republicans should each have their own army.

I don't think anyone believes the IRA has got rid of all it's weapons.

And what were those IRA members doing in FARC controlled territory in Columbia - just going for a walk?

Why indeed.

I can't believe England has any interest at all in NI apart from trying to stop the situation getting worse.

I'm sure you agree the situation is bad now.

If the English pull out, who's going to stop a full on civil war?

Because we all know how well protestants and catholics get on ...

War is war.

Terrorism is not war.

War is PART of terrorism.


McVeigh was terrorism.

Palestinians doing suicide bombings to kill the enemy in their own country is viewed by any nation as an act of war.


Well, that is untill bush labeled it terrorism.


Since when did war become terrorism, since when is the usa the babysitter for the world.


How do you think countries got started??

Bigger guys trampled the weaker.


They used to call it war, today they call it terrorism.

I think if everyone took the word terrorism out of what theyre going to post, they wouldnt have shit to post about.


War is war simple fact.

Democracy* doesn't mean "nice people that don't resort to violence". Democracy means you vote for your representatives who themselves decide who to commit violence against.


* Republic

You appear to have just contradicted yourself.

If NI is a warzone.

And the IRA are exploding bombs in London.

The English are justified about being in NI.

We had a civl war, countries have civil wars all the time.
How would you feel if a slave allowing country had stepped in to "settle" the civil war for the USA?





Every country's goverment is different, thats why they are called countries.





There were 5 idiots in Columbia, they said they were IRA, the IRA said they werent, and later under oath they testified that they were not IRA, but they wanted to help them.

Since the Soviet Union stopped playing.

You seem to have missed the point (for a change ;-)

Your post indicated you condoned and agreed with violence.

Strange, to say the least.

Thats funny, wasnt is British SAS that gunned down a fair amount of irish people near the freedom zone?

Heh Sarah they dont consider NI a warzone anymore, they consider it over run by terrorsits.

And as I said if a country invaded the usa and took over all the north eastern states, would those Americans that would fight back while in an occupied territory be considered terrorists?


By the invading country they would be, but not to America.

So what gives the right for anyone to call the IRA terrorists when all they want is what was theirs, their own country before some bigger guy came along and TRIED to push them out...

Huh?

Where did this post come from?

If it's relevant, pleast post a link.

That's correct. I am not against violence.

What about the Protestants?

Isn't NI their country too?

Why should the Catholics have any more say about what happens in NI than the Protestants? Because they have bigger guns?

This theory about whites running the "native americans" out of their homeland just may be wrong.

It in fact just might be that earlier tribes of what we now know as Native American's ran a caucasoid race out of the America's first.


http://www.kennewick-man.com/

Saw a great NOVA special on this.

When the body was first discovered they thought it was a murder scene, then the coroner determined the bones were much older and since they were of someone with caucasoid features they figured it must have been a settler however later the bones were found to be almost 10,000 years old.

Scientists wanted to study this a bit more, but the indians in the area not caring whether it was a white man or Indian wanted to protect the bones and since they were found on Indian land they won the court cases to do so.

The show discussed that the bones had chips in them from battles and surmised that the man led a pretty violent life.

The theory they were purporting was that the "race" of people this man came from was driven out and killed by the "race" of people we now know as Native Americans.

So maybe it was them who started all this shit :winkwink:

Um Sarah, go get a copy of U2 Sunday Bloody Sunday, and listen to it.

Of course, maybe it was before your time...


Cmon now, im almost 60, Ive been here for a long time, I read the Armagh newspaper everyday.

I've often wondered where you stand on issues, since you never really seem to make your points clear.

Just ramble on and on about minor issues.

This direct post is a pleasant change from you.

And gives me yet another reason to take all your posts with a very large grain of salt.

No Sarah, im not saying that anyone shoulod have more right over another to say what to do with THEIR own country. And dont try to say that the forces opposing the IRA dont have crap to kill with, heh they do some major bad shit hon.




i remmember when and i cant remmember his name offhand, went into a cemetary and threw 4 granades at a funeral for an IRA guy.

He killed 5 people and injured ALOT.

He did go to jail, yes he did.

Released 6 years later with a full pardon...
Ill find the link...

heh thats almost funny.

British troops dont consider them terrorists as they shoot down IRA members because hey, at least they arent shooting at them.

I thought we were talking about the situation in NI 'now', not 30 odd years ago?

I'm sure you agree the situation has changed. Do you not?

Okay then - how do you want NI to be. In a perfect world.

I'm curious, and wonder if it's actually possible.

Do you want all the Protestants out?

No, i think they should all sit down and try to work things out. I think they have more in common then they think and they could agree to live peacefully. It would take a long time yes, but Britain does not need to be there whatsoever.


We had a civil war, we are here today.
What doesnt kill you makes you stronger and if random violence breaks out as it would, and people on both sides get killed, maybe without the British propaganda both sides would start seeing their losing more then theyre gaining.

LOL I do hope you know that because they call themselves the "republican" army they are not talking about being "republicans" as opposed to "democrats," within the context of our own political system.

But call themselves The Irish Republican Army because they consider that they should be their own state, their own country known as the Irish Republic with their own elected president.

Sarah read this and say nothing more, not one IRA person was released. Just read...




B E L F A S T, Northern Ireland, July 24 ? Michael Stone, one of Northern Ireland?s most ruthless guerrillas, was freed early from prison today under an accord intended to cement the British province?s uneasy peace process.
Stone, a 45-year-old Protestant jailed for a gun and grenade attack on mourners at an Irish Republican Army (IRA) funeral in 1988, walked free after serving 6 years of a 30-year term for the Milltown Cemetery murders and other crimes.
Three Catholics were killed and scores of mourners injured in the attack. Horrific television footage of the event became one of the most enduring images of the long-running sectarian conflict and made Stone an icon among anti-Catholic loyalists.


In 1989, he was also convicted of three other murders.


Dressed in a crisply ironed black shirt, black trousers and black boots, Stone walked out through the turnstile of the top-security Maze prison to cheers from around 50 supporters.
He is one of about 80 guerrillas who will be freed this week, virtually emptying the notorious prison near Belfast that has housed the most hardened Catholic and Protestant guerrillas over the years.
Stone, the latest of 340 prisoners to walk free under a controversial early release scheme enshrined in the 1998 Good Friday peace accord, stood grim-faced as a brief statement was read to reporters.
Welcomed by Supporters
Frankie Gallagher, an official in the prisoners aid group GaeLairn that helps pro-British loyalists resettle after their release, said Stone would not comment until a news conference later in Belfast.
?I?m sure we speak for many thousands of working-class loyalists as well as the broader unionist family in welcoming Michael home to his own community,? said Gallagher.
?Michael, with the rest of the loyalists and ex-prisoners, continues to support the present peace process.?
Supporters held up a banner of the Ulster Freedom Fighters, a Protestant guerrilla group, as Stone was driven away.
Stone has nine children and three grandchildren. His parents, aged in their 70s, are still alive.
The early jail releases were meant to bring guerrillas who fought for British rule into line with the peace process. But they touched a raw nerve with victims? families.
?I feel very bitter because I think people look at him as a hero ? and to me he?s a devil,? said Sally McErlean, whose son Thomas was one of three Catholics killed at the Milltown Cemetery.

The Price of Peace
McErlean, her eyes brimming with tears, said she had mixed feelings about the early releases but accepted that they might be necessary to seal lasting peace.
?Isn?t that what it?s all about ? if it?s for peace?? she told Reuters. ?But why should we have to pay a price? I think it?s very sad that prisoners get out to flaunt themselves in front of children as heroes.?
Officials say the Maze prison, which in the mid-1980s was Western Europe?s biggest guerrilla jail with 800 prisoners, will soon be closed.
Only about 16 guerrillas will remain in the Maze after this week?s clear-out.
Guerrillas can be rearrested if they fall foul of the scheme, which applies only to groups maintaining a cease-fire and whose crimes were committed before the peace deal of April 1998.
Mainstream guerrilla groups, including the IRA, are observing cease-fires, but renegades on both sides have staged sporadic attacks intended to derail the peace process.
Protestant parties in favor of continued British rule over the province and Britain?s main opposition Conservative Party have been highly critical of the early release scheme.

I obviously can't say what the exact reasons are, but if the British suddenly pulled out, what do you think would happen?

I could imagine the violence suddenly getting a lot worse since there would be no restraining influence.

The hate I've seen between Protestants and Catholics is shocking, and seems based on habit rather than actual genuine reasons.

Do you know what Propoganda is... Hey wait, this thread started the same way


"Arent the IRA terrorsits?"

Okay.

Why do you think the British want to stay in NI - how are they benefiting?

So you say there isn't genuine hatred between Protestants and Catholics?

And to reiterate what I think is a very important question:

What do you think would happen if the British suddenly pulled out?

I don't appear to stand firm on most issues because I don't stand firm on most issues. People debate for days about an an issue such as whether George Bush was "honest" or "dishonest" about WMD's. I can't read minds. I don't know what George Bush thought or thinks. There aren't enough clues to really decide such things with any degree of reliability. I'm on the fence. Guessing leader's intentions is a fun game people play but it's pretty fruitless, just another human ritual. Nothing more than that.

Those "minor issues" are where the real play is. There are things that can be decided with much more certainty than whether George Bush is the king of a black-market oil cartel.

The real-world with all beauty and all it's ugliness is every bit as perfect to me - and maybe more so - than the peace-filled every person is equal, every nation is equal, why can't we all just get along (Rodney King Redux) Utopias that people often seem to compare the world to. We're not hurtling along towards an age of enlightenment where wars will not be fought and people will not hate each other. There's no evidence for that at all. We're here to fight. Arm yourself.