shit with all that money going around.. maybe a few processors should team up and open their own damn bank... there was a private island for sale on ebay .. slap a bank on there :Graucho

its really not alot of money in the grand scheme of things

what about.. making every online processor company... write to a file that is a file that can never be deleted.. never be looked at.. basically a secret file.. or even just a cookie.. will say they signed up.. and if they want to do a charge back.. you will have them download a file to fill out the online form.. the online form will send you the file and you will be able to tell if they did sign up or not.. or just have them goto the site.. and if the cookie is there from them signing up.. it will auto set something on the form they fill out to tell you they are bull shitting you.. most people never clear their cookies.. they don't even know what they are

if you can think of a way for a bank to make money from a chargeback, i will disprove it. banks lose money and time on chargebacks. we're encouraged to do all we can to prevent the customer from following through with the chargeback.

even with a digital signature, a customer can chargeback. it's their legal right to. and when the customer does a chargeback, the burden of proof falls on the merchant.

it's been said many times here by many people that the whole credit card business model and concept is not suited to the internet. even a digital signature can be forged. even a VbV PIN can be stolen. it's even easier than stealing a debit card PIN. all the theif has to do is install a program like Back Orifice or Netbus and use it to monitor your keystrokes. or they install a little piece of hardware to monitor your keystrokes. or they set up a fake page offering something at a real good price and then they use a fake VbV window.

by doing business as an internet merchant, you should be aware of the risks of the business. and if you don't like the risks, don't get into the business. the same applies to any business. it's like bitching at someone else that stuff gets shoplifted from your store all the time.

What do you mean when "you're out of business"? Are you not an adult webmaster or are you following some regulation others are not which will allow you to stay in business?

Just ignore her. She only pretends to know what she's talking about.

Ok here's my e-penis waving around NEVERMIND.

Why don't you be a big girl and admit that you said something you shouldn't have? A simple retraction is too hard for you? So you decide to become someone else, like you already have done previously? What you said put you in a corner, that is obvious.

I love Lensman's system he's got going here. A new IP doesn't make you a new person. Nor does a new email address.

Now where oh where is our little nevermind? Hiding in the corner with a bottle of Nyquil?

everything aside, the idea of you (or anyone) waving their e-penis around is mighty funny.

Hey didn't you see my e-penis in that one fur coat pic? I'm sure someone can find it ;)

A lot of people have two pc's, people will figure that out and cancel from a different one than they joined from. Good idea though, something deffineltly has to be done. :2 cents:

i think e-penis is my new favorite term.

I concur.

You mean this pic:

http://www.orgybot.com/kk.jpg

Yep, that's the one.
Oh my God, what a funny tag line you have now!

Funny, but how true! :)

hahahahahahah

Lol you've got quite a tagline too :glugglug

You better watch out Nevermind, KK's penis is HUGE!!!

:winkwink:

Hey, I can walk the walk ;)

Love the sig!

Hahaha, you gave me the idea!

I'm surprised you can walk at all without tripping over that thing :1orglaugh

I have to tell you maybe in the world you live in thats how it works but here in the USA its very easy to cb. Now they are letting them do it online, also they are making no one here jump thru hoops to cb.

You can say someone used my cc card without my knowledge and I dont know who it is, that means its stolen. Why dont they issue new credit cards to those people, if it is so expensive to deal with cb's ?

If someone has this person's number chances are they are going to do it again causing another expensive cb. All those cc numbers that were stolen and they didnt issue new cards, after all those numbers are more cb's waiting to happen. Why not?

They let friendly fraud happen because they profit from it otherwise they would make it painful to cb.
Especially people that are chronic charge backers. My wife had a guy who told her in chat that he cb's porn all time and his cc company doesnt care its porn. Now if they didnt profit would they let him do that multiple times same card same number?

I think maybe they are not being totally honest with you.


http://www.msnbc.com/news/917088.asp?cp1=1

Here is a portion of it:

PROFITING OFF FRAUD?
Ishman said he specializes in Internet crime and filed the lawsuit after the three merchants approached him.
The suit also claims credit card associations and issuing banks actually profit from fraud because of revenue from chargeback fees. Ishman estimated $383 million in chargeback fees was collected from merchants in 2001, based on his estimate that 1.4 percent of all card-not-present transactions that year were fraudulent. In comparison, however, Visa has said that in 2001, only one-quarter of one percent of online transactions were fraudulent.



The lawsuit also alleges the companies are operating in violation of federal and state anti-racketeering laws because they don?t do enough to stop credit card fraud.
?We have strong beliefs that will be supported through discovery that [the credit card associations] have knowledge that certain cards have been stolen or compromised, but they don?t ... share such knowledge,? Ishman said. ?Throughout these transactions, they had many opportunities in which they could have stopped (the fraud) or minimized damages.?
As an example, Ishman said that when a Web site?s database of credit card numbers is compromised, credit card associations and issuing banks don?t immediately cancel the cards or inform consumers; they simply watch the list of potentially stolen cards and look for signs of actual fraud. That happened earlier this year when systems at Data Processors International in Omaha, Neb., were compromised, and 8 million card holders were put at risk.
?We estimated that it would have cost them $2 million to replace the 8 million cards, but if they wait for just one chargeback of $45 on each card, they make $360 million,? Ishman said.
Last year, a federal court threw out an Internet-related racketeering lawsuit against the credit card companies. Consumers who lost money on Internet gambling sites had tried to sue Visa, Mastercard and a host of issuing banks under racketeering laws. The suit was dismissed, and last December, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in New Orleans upheld the earlier ruling.




The credit card associations ?have made profits from merchants on almost every element of fraud that runs through their hands,? Ishman said, and indeed, the 89-page complaint has a laundry list of charges.
Another of them is the claim that credit card firms make it impossible for merchants to fight what Ishman calls ?cybershoplifting? ? consumers who get what they ordered, but simply call their credit card firm and dispute the charge anyway.
?At that point the credit card company simply reverses the charges. That means the merchant is out the sales price, the shipping costs, the product, a client and is charged a chargeback fee,? he said.
The credit card associations have 30 days to respond to the lawsuit, Ishman said.

Hey didn't you hear how I REALLY broke my foot? ;)

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p.s. Epoch is fine.. Stop bitching and get back to work.

that lawsuit won't get anywhere.
if you've read any of my previous posts, you'd understand my point. if you're selling an online service, you're fucked if the customer charges back.
if you cannot prove the cardholder did the charge, then the chargeback cannot be resolved in the merchant's favour. and you cannot prove that without the cardholder's ISP logs. good luck getting those.

i'm not pointing fingers, but there should be a lot more verification on the merchant's end. i've used my credit card at every large processor and i put in the wrong address and CVV yet my card was still approved.

also, there should be a lot done on the webmaster's end. make it loud and clear who processes for you. put it on the main page of the members area along with a cancel link. that alone will reduce a lot of chargebacks.

I agree with you , the name and address have to match. I worked for a used mac website and we had to manually enter the info in a computer. The software he had if the name and address didnt match it didnt happen. How come everyone doesnt have that?

I have no clue. I'm not very familiar with the merchant end of Visa.
I do know for a fact that the majority of companies that sell tangible goods online in Canada require that you either use your credit card billing address as your shipping address, or that you have your alternate shipping address registered with your CC company.
Then, the merchant calls Visa and confirms the whole address with them, as well as whether or not it's been changed in the last 90 days. If Visa says it's not a match, the customer is informed and he has to do what he needs to do to make sure it's a match. If it's not a match and the merchant ships anyways, they pay for any fraud. If Visa says it's a match and it's still fraud, Visa pays.

Personally, I'd pay an extra 5% in processing fees for a processor that did that. It's not that much work. Six transactions can be confirmed in less than 2 minutes. If it's not a match, cancel the username/password and refund the customer.

Hmmmm, I guess that also explains why Isabel wanted to ride in front of you on the 4wheeler :winkwink:

I thought NEVERMIND stomped on it? :winkwink:

Hahahaha !

She tried but apparently fell and knocked herself out judging from her absence of late.