What % payout do you feel is required?

Paying 10% is about right for something as easy as generating traffic.

How much does it cost to get someone in office to generate all the traffic needed?

It's hard to say really but a good question.

For me it depends on how much money I would make overall.

With paysites like ccBill I'm looking for 50% generally, but if a program converts like mad I'll take 5% if it will make me good money.

So it's all about EPC rather than % payout.

Traffic is irrelevant, it's quality traffic that is.

Do you think you could set up a new site using your own quality "content is king" stuff and receive 1000 unique visitors daily from organic sources only in 6 months?

Paul thinks he can. Paul also live off welfare, so you might want to take his answers with a grain of salt

As a site owner I can't worry how long and how much traffic affiliates can find. The traffic is out there and if affiliate A can't get it affiliate B will.
My concern is to create a product of the highest quality. So it attracts the best traffic and converts it.
Too high a percentage allows the mediocre affiliates to survive. Can you survive with a lower percentage but twice the traffic?

Make a case for high commissions not insult on a personal level.

Few here made what I did by just creating content.

Judging from the tax reports your company filed, you dident even make minimum wage over the the lifespan of the company

You're right we ran a large company employed 8 people for minimum wage.

Now tell us why you need a high commission? Is it because you can't survive without it?

your tax reports and former partner say otherwise.

How long did it take her to realize SHE were supporting you, and not the other way around? or did she just start working officejobs again because its so much fun? Wake up Paul, you are the resident Baron Munchausen

That only shows one thing. Paul is getting good tax advice. He is not a "lumpenproletariat" like you maybe

I am going to send my traffic to wherever I make the most money.

So, if you are producing decent content and have a decent site and the other guy produces decent content and has a decent site bit the other guy pays 20% while you only pay 10, the other guy is getting my traffic.

.

I am able to distinguish revenue from profit thank you

What if a site paying 10% has the best content because it's paying models more money?

Do the best sites have a better members area better content to tempt surfers and affiliates and convert better or not?

who's taking advice from a retired old dude that's not active in the market? when was the last time Markham generated 100k hits (in any timeframe) or earned $1 as an affiliate? has he ever done anything at all in the cam affil business?

why reply to Markham? he's trolling you guys


i know you are bored but gfy

#

So it should be easy to explain why paying a high commission level has led to a better product and industry.

Why does a site need 100k hits? Because the site can't convert well enough because the content is poor.

Content providers and models want paying well, sites need money to make sure the product is good affiliates need good content to get traffic, send to the site and convert it. You can't have all that paying out high commissions.

Then there's the amount of free content stopping people from buying, by giving surfers an alternative to buying.

So far all those on the affiliates side have failed to give a good reason for a high commission and resort to insults. ONLYFANS proves how easy it is to drive traffic.

Here we go again . . .

If a complete amatuer, models, camgirls, inhouse staff can easilly generate traffic, why take money from the product to pay to affiliates who will give it away?

Content determines sales. The content used to drive traffic, convert and retain. Then bring back customers for updates. If the initial product is low in quality, you drive traffic, convert, retain and bring back less people than with good content. So what are affiliates willing to do to make sure they get the sites with the best content?

Reality is the best sites paid out the same as the worse sites. For something that was hard because there were so many of you. Lose 75% of the affiliates in porn and you add to your customer base overall, less free porn. Also the good affiliates can survive on less money and a higher traffic, conversion, retention rate.

Keep demanding more and more and sites will discover models, cam girls, inhouse staff are cheaper and better.

Paul, why do feel the need to derail yet another thread? Seriously, AmeliaG is talking about TODAY. September 2020.

What did or didn't happen in the past is irrelevant to this question, at this point in time...

Program A pays 50% revshare, but hardly ever rebills
Program B pays 25% revshare, but generates many rebills
Program B wins.

That's not entirely an EPC is king answer, cos it could be Program A wins the EPC race short ... or even, medium ... term. But I might still choose Program B if I though it would win the EPC race long-term.

So it's not as simple as saying it's pure per click math. There's also some long-term business judgment call in the mix.

Having said all that, Paul's argument would get him next to no traffic. If someone's only offering 10%, they are claiming they have an AMAZING product for it to be worth such a small cut, which would have to have an unbelievable conversion rate. That being the case, I'd ask them why they just don't go and buy their own traffic and convert that amazing product themselves.

25% . . .

I would suggest you monitor your traffic and conversion. sometimes 2% is good enough, sometimes it 50%. All that matter is the profit in the end.

Price, conversion rate, traffic amount, ctr... it's all part of the equation.

For Program B to rebill at that rate costs money on content. So are affiliates willing to pay to allow the site to create such content? Try to create great content and pay out 50% or even 25% to affiliates.

Why do you assume a program paying out 10% doesn't drive it's own traffic? Explain what skills you have that demand 25%.

How much skill is required to write blogs, submit galleries, tubes, etc?

Of course if the product is so good they can buy traffic why bother with affiliates?

Models, Cam girls, amateur are proving that driving traffic is not the skilled job you think it is. OF is showing you how it should be done. This business is in sharp decline because we paid far too much for traffic the sites can't convert.

I realise you want only people to post what you agree with, but in the real world Freedom of Speech is tops.

Tell us what a great job affiliates getting 50% to 25% did for the industry?

We have 1,000s of affiliates that are not required.
They're giving away far too much free porn.
The product we sold wasn't good enough to convert the traffic you sent.
The free porn side of the industry has killed so many sales most have left the business.
You had at best 10 years before free porn showed you how it would kill sales.

So at this point in time... tell us the plus sides of paying out too much to affiliates.

Admit it, GFY, your love-hate relationship with the trollmaster is eternal and will go into the afterlife.

Having said that, Paul, while it's amusing, my suggestion is to stop derailing business threads with hypotheticals, what ifs and napkin math. Traffic in 2020 does not follow nor operate by any of the former...especially napkin math.

Amelia, it has to be a balance. If you're offering a % that is lower than the competition, IMO it's important that you're able to explain why your % is lower. Cams is a perfect example for a vertical where more than the usual two parties (paysite owner and the affiliate) have to split the revenue (eg. the cam model), hence the lower %. The lower % is obviously offset by longer retention and higher LTV.

After that, it will all come down to how much money you can make for the one driving traffic your way, like many have already said.

In short, high enough to appear on the prospects' radar and to make it worthwhile to promote long term. For traditional paysites anything lower than 50% I'd need to understand why they're offering less than the industry standard before I'd consider promoting them.

If it's a new product, err on the side of generosity in the interest of making that growth curve as steep as you can, as fast as you can. You can always run it as a promo/introductory offer, which will give you the flexibility to later lower it to a level that is sustainable and profitable long term.

So models, cam girls, amateurs, inhouse staff, aren't good enough to drive traffic. Or are they?

The money paid out to affiliates doesn't detract fromthe money paid for the product.

Top level sites are paying out a lower % than bottom of the rung. Because they convert better.

Affiliates don't seem able to come up with a reason other than we won't send you traffic,, unless paid a high amount for it.

I always look for 20% for cams but won't promote a paysite under 50%

I actually fully agree with you. What you are saying about the way things were in the past, and the way we have arrived at this point in time, with the situation the industry is in. are pretty much unarguable facts.

However, what is being asked, is how much should affiliates be getting TODAY? How much does an affiliate expect TODAY?

It's not a thread about how we got to be at the point of asking the question. The question is the question itself - Which is...

How much should affiliates be getting TODAY? How much does an affiliate expect TODAY?

What was relevant even yesterday has no bearing on today.

As others have said, nice trolling.

To briefly answer your points ... Of course, it costs a program money to create content to keep high retention. It also costs a shit load of money/time to generate QUALITY traffic. A prospective affiliate owes the program NOTHING. The progam owners are SELLING a product to the affiliate, NOT doing the affiliate a favor. The program owner is marketing his product to affiliates for a reason ... a business relationshi which will make both parties money. There are a shitload of other programs for the affiliate to market as alternatives. An affiliate program owner's first SALE is to the affiliate.

I have come across a few (mainly ccbill) program owners who have given some very funny excuses for altering their terms ... including switching to NO rebills. :D ... one once wrote me a gigantic mail detailing why he didn't think just putting up a link on some page essentially was worth more than the few bucks of an initial sale. It had echoes of a lot of the stuff you post, but with more swear words in it. I wrote him a very brief reply back. "Good luck with your business model."

As to your other point, I don't assume programs don't buy their own traffic. Where did I say that? What I said was, in adult (not so much mainstrean) if a program is only offering a 10% cut to affiliates, I would tend to assume either ... a) they don't know what they are doing or b) they have a product which they are saying converts and retains so amazingly that I don't believe they need affiliates. They should just buy ALL their traffic rather than going into a business relationship with affiliates ... IMO.

Of course, other people can have different opinions and maybe they'll get affiliates at 10%. Good luck to them.

All your other arguments about how much it costs to run the program, to maintain quality content, to have a pretty girl to make the coffee and lift her skirts are to the affiliate 100% irrelevant. He/she doesn't care. You can say he/she can fuck right off then, and have every right to do that.

If you can find other affiliates who will take your 10%, great ... good business. If you can't, welcome to the cold hard world of supply and demand. Then adjust your percentage, or do as I originally said ... take your incredible program that converts/retains at a level where 10% would be viable ... skip the affiliate and the tools and the staff necessary to maintain it ... and just buy ALL your traffic. Simple.

You take these threads like people are arguing with you philosophically or something. Nobody really is. It's just business. You always argue like the program owner is the only one with a product to sell. That's basically your error. Both the program owner and the affiliate are SELLERS in this business arrangement. They both have to convince each other on terms they are BOTH happy with. You argue that affiliates are ten a penny and if one won't take 10%, there's plenty of others who will.

The market will tell you if you're right ... and when you don't get enough affiliates, you will show them all how wrong they were, take your OWN money, put it where your mouth is and prove everybody wrong by buying ALL your own traffic at market rates (with no guarantee of any sales return). And then, you will laugh all the way to the bank and tell everyone else what suckers they were.

And I won't grumble at your success or roll in stinky schadenfreude lost. I'll say, well done, Paul. Great business. You were right all along. And we'll all live happily ever after ...

So a better conversion, retention rate means nothing to you.

I understand what you are saying about the past. So let's address the present.

We now know models of all sorts are good at driving traffic to their own sites and cams. There's also the sites like C4S where amateurs drive their own traffic to their own sites along with professionals.

No one so far has been able to answer my question on what is it that you do others can't. I'm assuming if no can answer that's because their is nothing difficult in driving traffic. The difficult part is in converting it.

What converts the most browsers to a buyers? The product. We can all use fancy words, the right colours, good designs, etc. But few can attract the best models, keep them, build good studios, great locations, etc.

JustBiz says he doesn't care about the product, well he should because that's determining his earnings. Not % of payout.

20% of $1 is 20 cents
10 of $30 is 30 cents.

Do all cam sites convert at the same level or are some better than others?

Affiliates are overrated

nope and I'm promoting a 1:135 ccbill website that rebills and they pay me 50% and I love it

The site is selling to the customer, affiliates are directing traffic to the site.

No I'm saying more traffic should be driven by models and inhouse.

The product should be of interest to you, it determines the conversion rate.

That's happening now as sites realise how easy it is, how liottle work it requires and the % it costs.

So long as the extra % to pay affiliates is coming from thin air it comes from running the site, building it and maintaining it (filling itwith new content). If there are cheaper and better means to drive traffic, why pay affiliates?

I'm assuming OF type sites are putting customers on mailing lists, that customers who are satisfied with one girls work will buy another. The same with Cams.

Someone should tell us how well good American cam models do against bad third world studio models. Because unless they convert at the same rate one needs paying more than the other per customer.

Your attitude is so insulting. How much skill was required of you to hold a camera and press a button?

reading that made me laugh and also made me remember a thing Steve Lightspeed said to me a longtime ago. He said he just holds the camera and has the models move around and when his pants get tight he snaps the photo.

That's not the hard part of creating the content you rely on to get, drive, convert traffic. Read this to see what I do. https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-b...-business.html

It takes time to find the right models, you can't just phone an agent to get the best models first.

You need skills to find and spot who will make a good model and who will not. What she can do. Not push her beyond her limit but coax her to her limit.

More skills to develop her. Lightspeed waited for his dick to get hard, I made models look sexy.

Then there's lighting, clothing, props, etc.

The cost of locations, lights, cameras, etc.

Your knowledge of what it takes to make a great product is insulting you.

I won't promote a paysite for less than 50% commission. Cam sites are a different sale. Also I pay attention to Paul's comments because, whether I agree with him or not, he has a track record and years of experience in his field. Some of you other commentors, not so much. Some of you hide behind imaginary successes that you like to take out and wave like a flag or something. I understand people want to keep their business private, but most of us can smell bullshit a mile away. Paul is an old guy, I'm an old guy. There's not much that can replace experience in this world. Some of us were fucking around with this shit before a lot of you got off the teat. So ease up on your sanctimonious attitudes.

You've always had a nifty knack of saying people said what they didn't say. What I actually said was I don't care how much a program costs to run, how much the content costs to produce or who it employs.

I don't care about a lot of other stuff too, including whether or not I like the content. What I like is irrelevant.

Cams taught me that long ago. I'd push all the girls I thought looked pretty hot and assumed most people would think the same. I was too stupid for words.

But anyway, as someone else said, you've earnt your right to your opinion. I hope you still find a way to make a nice nest egg out of your old content. We've all got our own opinion/experiences of what works for us. Ain't no monopoly on who's right and who's wrong.

Pay site won't profit at 50%, that means you are going to get cheated somehow

I ran paysites for 12+ years and payed out 60% on ccbill. I understand the cross and upselling to other sites but in this case the site actually rebills nicely.

They only need to look at the industry today to see what is being afforded. How many independent American/English speaking girls are working their own traffic and sites, how many rely on affiliates, which trend is growing?

Which is the easiest to sell?

The days of paying out huge amounts of the purchase price to affiliate who do no more than sent 100s or even 10,000s of surfers to a site that don't like what they see is coming to an end. The problemis getting them to see what's happening at the present time.

Well you should care because they all lead to the quality ot the product.

As you say it's not about personal tastes unless they're spot on. It's about which girl is saleable. If you don't know that, you're just slinging a lot of traffic at a site and hoping.

They only need to do the calculations of what it costs toset up and run a site. Paying 50% was and is unsustainable unless the site owner was shooting his own great content, had a reservoir of models, cheap location and a massive members list.

The number of paysites who crashed and burned because the product wasn't good enough is longer than the San Fran bridge.

When it comes to cams the case is no different.

20% to the affiliate
20% to the site
20% to the studio
20% to the model
20% For profit

Why should someone who does no more than send lots of hits of people looking to buy cams when models, inhouse staff can do a better and cheaper job?

The surfers want girls that speak English well, in a room that's more than a bed, are motivated and they want to deal direct with them. They don't want to be sent to a site then have to sort out a model they like. Interactive social media is killing that kind of traffic. Sites are now giving the models the affiliates and studio cut and running on the 20% where they find the profit.

You did not pay on rebills?

nope, I payed rebills too. Back in the day I made good money upselling to webcams.com I think then when CB came along I switched over to that. I didn't pay models a percentage just payed them for modeling. Then around 08 I dabbled in ex gf stuff. Closed up in 2015 cause I couldn't see paying $3k a year for visa and MC and server bills when I was making more money from CB.

So in the end I didn't make it but I know of a few solo sites that are still making money at it.

I had heard numbers from a client that made 50% seem unprofitable

I love the "who needs affiliates?" argument. LOL Especially coming from people with no skin in the game, like Paul.

Affiliates = traffic. Period. If a webmaster sends a visitor to a site from his site that webmaster wants and expects to get paid. And he should. That 50% for paysite affiliates Paul is bitching about is EXACTLY what I as a Program Owner want! Why? Because it's free money. It's a FREE sale Paul. It's a sale I would otherwise not get. So, to me, it's passive income. Yay affiliates!

Now this does not mean I stop my own "in-house" traffic generation. Of course I make more without affiliates (duh) but see above. It's not an either/or situation. You do/have BOTH. Get affiliates AND you do your own traffic generation, traffic and media buys, link exchanges, etc etc.

Geez Louise. LOL

If ALL your sales/revenue is 50% from paysites and you are shooting content 1-3 times per week for updates then yes 50% would be a tough margin. But hopefully only a % of your money comes from affiliates.