[Labret]

Have you ever been to church of any kind?

I am not even sure how to respond. So you think being a Christian is just about accepting authority and not following the rules? Seriously?

Then why do the religious right always try and dictate others behavior?

God has rules.

And you never heard of being excommunicated?

Lane

Christianity is corrupt. Original "God's rules" have become what people think what God's rules should be. Modified, made up, reverted.


Can you say Middle Ages?

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[Labret]

Catholics still excommunicate. Mormons are notorious for it.

You know what hardline Muslims like to do to "sinners"?

Rules. There are rules. Religion is rules. Church teaches you the rules. Follow them or you will be punished. Organized religion, they call it organized for a reason.

Lane

They can call it whatever they want. I do not believe God gave them the authorization in the first place. Still don't see why I call it corrupt?

same thing.. God says how he is gonna punish the sinners, though some morons claim it as their own duty. I do not accept anyone wanting to punish me in the name of God is actually representing him.

punished, yes, by people, no.. If I accept the authority of the country, I will be punished by its own system, only by court. Some people walking on the street cannot fine me for littering.

In my belief, church does not stand for enforcement. It stands for only for practise and education.


Showing me examples of what fucked up people do in the name of religion doesn't change my view about it.

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XXXManager

Labret
You are one of the most despicable characters on GFY imho. And brains in not your strongest side even if some foolish kids here think so.
I though or reading your posts here but realized after the first sentence that you are a sad person and the only positive reaction I can have is noting that your mother probably loves you no matter what and you should focus on these emotions and maybe grow from there.
As to what you wrote?


As to the other issues..
With all due respect to Armenians and other groups throughout histories great wrong has been committed upon, I didn?t post this thread to say they shouldn?t be remembered nor did I say anything at all about those issues. I only stated it?s now the Holocaust memorial day. I even stated a general statement about the power and wrongdoing of evil wherever it is.

6 million Jews were killed because of men?s plan to get rid of them based only on their genetics, because of a (German) nation?s quiet or loud acceptance and cooperation and because of the World?s silence in the face of this great evil; A dark time in history- Maybe not the only, but among the most remarkable if not the most in the 20th century.

(Labret ? this is what pure hate can lead to. Maybe its time to reevaluate your life?)

JeremySF

Labret, what's interesting is that somehow you same to think you have the final say on religion....period. It's interesting isn't it that Jewish sages debated for hundreds of years (and Jews continue debating) Judaism. And I imagine Christians have been too. It's not like it's everything is absolute. In Judaism you are expected to question everything as you learn the Torah, which is why there's hardly two Jews in history that would reach the same conclusion. Haven't you heard the joke that if you get 10 Jews in a room, you'll have no less than 15 oppinions.

Moreover, you can even be athiest and still be a Jew. Ever heard the joke about the boy whose preparing for his Bar Mitvah only to confide in his Rabbi that he can't go through with it. The Rabbi says, "That's okay. God doesn't mind."

There's a million fucking viewpoints. And you most certainly don't have the final say.

I don't go telling you that there's no way you're a homosexual because you also like fucking trannies. Hey if you like fucking trannies, that's your perogitive. Who am I to say you're not gay.

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JeremySF

I'd like to echo that statement. Just because we're remembering the Holocaust which exterminated more than A THIRD of WORLD Jewry doesn't mean it's to the exclusion of the other atrocities other people have endured. Get over it!

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Fletch XXX

i made that for Labret to use against people, not the other way around.

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kmanrox

God bless them all, and all genocide victims....

after viewing the Khmer Rouge Torture/ Genocide Museum, saw the pictures of everyone who died there, entire families massacred in the same room from grandmother to 3 month old kids, mugshots of them all, torture devices everywhere (Khmer Rouge ruled Cambodia for a long time)...

XXXManager

JeremySF: I hardly think you should debate Labret, especially on ethics. Labret is hardly a guy to either condemn others on ethics and moral nor he is entitled to defend it. Moreover, Jews were not killed in WW2 because of their religion, even children from mixed marriage or people who were totally secular were lead to their death.

Instead of debating stupid kids (or worst - stupid grownups with grudge and untreated hate and anger) let's remember what happened and try to learn from it the extent of hate and it's destructive power on one hand and the powers and longevity of the human spirit (and specifically in that day - the strength and longevity of the Jewish people)

May all evil be abolished and all man-kind live in peace and happiness.

Gimmy

Labret get a fucking life

[Labret]

I love it when Israelis want sympathy while they are responsible for so much suffering in the world over the centuries.



What about those children? Fuck those goy pieces of shit.

You celebrate genocide and you want sympathy?

You will get zero.

X37375787

A jew, a frenchman and an american walk into a restaurant...


nevermind.

X37375787

LoL, if you morons wouldn't keep on feeding him with hot, controversial topics that ultimately lead to him sharing his opinions here, we wouldn't have to deal with long, pointless threads that don't lead to anything.

This is fucking GFY, if you get pissed about people talking politics and pissing on each other, just ignore it or head over to Oprano, they sure can use some more people like you.

UnseenWorld

Labret, you totally seem ignorant of the fact that there are religious Jews and secular Jews. The first kind try to live their lives according to the precepts of Judaism, and the other kind is like my friend who eats ham and shellfish, never goes to Temple, and thinks the world would probably be a more peaceful place if Israel had never been created.

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[Labret]

I would argue that your friend, as shocking as you may find this to believe, is indeed... not a jew. Call me crazy.

galleryseek

im going to agree with labret on this...

you can't suit a religion just because you practice a lifestyle that isn't according to it... you either live the life suggested by the religion, or you don't.

yeah, religion is about faith... but how strong can your faith be if you don't live a life according to the religion?

thats why i'll always consider myself agnostic until out of some type of miracle i'm able to "discover" truth.

[Labret]

The Torah is full of stories of God punishing the Jewish people for their transgressions. He does it alot. Babylonian exile, Egypt exile, destruction of the Temple, etc etc etc.

Isnt it true that some orthodox Jews believed the attempted genocide of the Jews was nothing more than another punishment in a very long line of punishments handed down by the Ol Mighty? I read this in fact hampered resistance movements in the early days. Who is to judge Gods will?

Surely the one true God wouldnt allow his "chosen" people to be harmed. Unless it was done with his approval.

JeremySF

You seem to ignore the fact that Jews are more than a religion. They are a people, too. The Jewish people were around long before Moses received the Torah on Mt. Sinai and the religion of Judaism was founded.



Myths about Judaism courtesy of Aish.com (run and administered by Orthodox Jews)


1) "JUDAISM IS EITHER ALL OR NOTHING"
All those commandments to keep? You've got to be kidding.
Many people think that if they can't take on the whole Jewish kit'n'kaboodle, then there's no point in getting started.

But is that really true?Is traditional Judaism an all-or-nothing proposition?

Imagine stumbling across a gold mine. Would you turn down the gold because you know you won't find ALL the gold mines in the world? That one mine alone will make you rich for life!

Every mitzvah is a gold mine. Even if we do just part of a mitzvah, our lives are enriched forever.


Judaism is a process, a journey, where every step counts.

It's NOT all or nothing.

Whatever we're able to do right now is great!

Just do it.

One step at a time.


2) "SOME JEWS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS"
Ever meet a Jew who looks down at everyone less religious than him? He can be condescending, judgmental, and turn others off to Judaism.

But, according to the Torah, can we know who is a "good Jew"?

If a terrorist would order the greatest rabbi on earth to kill a thief or else be killed, the rabbi is forbidden to murder, even in order to save his life. Why? Isn't the rabbi's life more precious in God's eyes than the life of some criminal?

The Talmud says: "Nobody knows whose blood is redder." No one can judge the worth of another person because no one knows where another person is situated on the ladder of life -- where he began and how many rungs he has climbed. Perhaps the thief, given his life's circumstances, is making greater, more difficult life choices than the finest rabbi.

The best policy is for all of us to stop judging each other and respect each other instead.

__________________
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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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galleryseek

true, but he stated he had faith in the religion. i mean, i think its better than nothing. if he were trying to change his ways then i could see nothing wrong with labeling himself a believer who invests his faith within the religion (but not if he will only invest faith within the religion where its most suitable to his life)... but for some reason i doubt hes trying to change the whole porn situation..

JeremySF

who are you talking about? Moses? i'm not sure i'm following.

My main point is that faith is not all or nothing and who is one to say that another is a good or bad christain or jew or whatnot.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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rooster

there were some atrocities, but I get a kick out of it when people throw out this '6 million' number. It shows how brainwashed they are.

Non-porn

A sad day for sure. I lived in Israel for little over a year on and off a kibbutz. I am not a Jew and found the culture and country fascinating. I still firmly believe the best looking women in the world are from there. I also understand the problems Jews have with the Palestinians and vise versa. I ran into many Israelis who did not understand/accept their own history.

Let me give you quick run down due to what today is. After WWII the Jews had no place to go and not many countries wanted them (Even the US). At this point the Jews felt a 3,000-year-old story made Palestine belonged to them. The fact is that Palestine was under British control at the time because it was a British colony that was later turned over to the UN. So technically the Jews took the land from the British not the Palestinians. The Jews ran TERRORIST attacks from Cypress against the British to get the British to recognize them as a separate sovereign nation of Israel. (Does this sound familiar?) When this failed the Jews even blew up the British governor and family in their home. The British planned a counter attack, but the US and other nations stepped in and said it?s just fucking sand and let them have it. The real reason again, was no other country wanted them. The British being them first refused then saved face and gave the land to the UN/ Palestinians on the way out. Then the Jews took it from the Palestinians and that?s how Israel was born.

The sad news. The tactics the Palestinians are using now are the same as the Jews used against the British. After living in Israel (1984) let me explain some of the similarities the Israelis have with the Nazis. All Arabs must have a separate identity card and license plates for their vehicles. All Arabs have a curfew in Israeli towns. All Arabs have a pay structure lower then the Israelis. Meaning there are two forms of minimum wage Arab and Israelis. Arabs can be stopped anywhere and checked with no rights at all. Arabs can be hauled into jail for NO reason for questioning. Arabs can NOT carry large denominations of cash. ($100) Arabs are rejected from most restaurants and hotels. This list can go on from every thing from voting rights to NO health care provided even when they are taxed for it. The point is the Arabs are living under apartheid. I use the word Arabs due to Palestinians are not the only Arabs that live there. The sadist stories we never hear about are the Druze. The Druze where land owners in the north of Palestine. When Israel was born the government seized their land and turned it to agriculture. (Kibbutzim?s) The sad part was I was working on a kibbutz next to an old Druze that actually owned the land before it was seized. What is even sadder Druze are 100% pacifists and believe any form of violence is evil. (Like Tibetans)

I don?t want to get off subject of Holocaust memorial day and feel for the victims, but the survivors in a small way are recreating a possible memorial day for another culture.

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JeremySF

seriously, everyone knows it was 5.9 million.






there were 15 million Jews before WWII. There were 9 million after. You do the math.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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JeremySF

Do me a favor and add me to your ICQ or email me at jeremy.kossen [@] sbcglobal.net.

I don't want to debate this issue right now on here (given the timing), and while I disagree with your conclusions, I'd be interested in discussing it with you further "offline". I also lived in Israel and I've spent a fair amount of time throughout the region.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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Keev

Serge, maybe my comment came across alittle brash , i guess my point is I do feel that what happened is wrong but cramming it down everyones throats is where I don't like it. If that makes any sense.

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JeremySF

you have every right to honor every other group that has endured genocide, and I encourage you to do so. we should all remember those who have so unjustly succombed to genocide.

__________________
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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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Joe Sixpack

You mean attempted genocide.

Fletch XXX

pagans and the red man come to mind.

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JeremySF

yes, you're right Mr. Semantic. My apologies.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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Joe Sixpack

You are forgiven.

rooster

"there were 15 million Jews before WWII. There were 9 million after. You do the math."



If you honestly believe that 6 million jews were killed by germans, wow, I got some ocean front property in wyoming you might be interested in.

JeremySF

ok, genius. enlighten me. what is the truth? it is a fact that there were 6 million less Jews after WWII than before.

But for argument sake, let's say the number was only 2 million. what's you're fucking point?

please consult me once you acquire a brain.

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Fletch XXX

just doing a search, came across this.

http://www.newsturmer.com/Historical..._discussio.htm

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Joe Sixpack

Ahhhhhh... the far right.

Tell me Jeremy, does this kind of shit give you a firm psychological kick towards the left of politics?

After all, the left may argue about Israel/Palestine and Jewish control of the mass media but virtually all holocaust revisionists are on the far right.

THANK YA JESUS!

JeremySF

that must be right. it's on the Internet.

come on Fletch, what's your point? you're attempting to dispute how many Jews died during the Holocaust on the eve of the rememberance? what's the point? the fact is that there were 6 million fewer Jews after WWII than before the war. And as I said, for argument sake, let's say the number was fewer. Does that mean that the ATTEMPTED genocide was justified?

For fuck sake, if only 500,000 Jews were killed (which can easily be disproved), that would still be 1 out of every 30 Jews. Is that justifiable?

What is your point?


I'm shocked and dismayed that you'd even be making such an argument. It's appalling.

I frequently disagree with you, but I enjoy the discourse. When you make such an ignorant statement as this, I am trully appalled.

What's the deal?

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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Fletch XXX

i didnt read past this.

im not really in your argument, you guys were arguing about the numbers, i took it upon myself to lo0ok them up, im not in your conversation to do anything but educate myself.

keep that in mind.

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rooster

ever hear of things like...

old age

disease - In a concentration camp enviornment it wouldnt take much for a disease to kill alot of people. Its 2003 and we can barely contain this sars shit.

starvation - which resulted when we cut off german supply lines


We put japanese americans in concentration camps too during the war.


My only point is it just bugs the shit out of me when people quote such an obviously fabricated number like it is a fact. Its ultra left political correct bs.

JeremySF

well, it is probably the reason why 80% of Jews consider themselves liberal, although that has changed as the right has evolved.

in reality, the liberal/conservative position isn't left/right, but more like a circle, and those on the far right tend to share the same oppinions as those on the far left when it comes to Jews.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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Joe Sixpack

Come on Jeremy.

Do you really think that far right gun nut hardcore Christian types share the same opinions about Jews as lefty tree hugging bleeding heart liberal types?

Really?

JeremySF

ok, you're right, buddy. if people died of malnourishment because they were sent to a concentration camp, then it doesn't really count even if they would have survived had they not been sent to a camp.

dude, what planet do you live on?????

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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JeremySF

you're talking palecons (or rooster) vs. neocons..... pat buchanon vs. william kristol.

big difference....

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Mark

You have some strange 'facts' there.. one or two with some basis in truth but many seem rather distant from it!

To remind you.. the UN partitioned palestine making a jewish state and an arab state..

While the Jewish leadership and population in Palestine accepted partition, all of the Arab members states of the UN - Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Yemen- voted against it. Upon the resolution's adoption, the Arab delegates declared partition invalid: The New York Times, Nov. 30, 1947. Within two days, the Arab governments declared their oposition to partition: The New York Times, Dec. 1, 2, 1947

Some more..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/...ts/1681322.stm

"Arabs are rejected from most restaurants and hotels"

Bullshit. In fact every muslim holiday brings throngs of arabs to my town and they sure as hell aint sleeping on the beach!

"Arabs can NOT carry large denominations of cash"

I'm not a lawyer but that smells like bullshit too. However I would imagine that if you were stopped in the street and the police found you with large amounts of cash they might be somewhat suspicious.. there are afterall banks all over israel and the palestinian areas.. ;)

"Arabs can be stopped anywhere and checked with no rights at all"

errr.. anyone in israel can be stopped and checked anywhere - tell me you never heard of police in other countries stopping people for random checks??!!!! Have you heard there's a war on here also making checks even more important?! In fact I have been woken up in the middle of the night in a hotel in tel aviv by police wanting to check my id and I am not an arab..

"All Arabs must have a separate identity card and license plates for their vehicles"

Bullshit. First of all you are confusing 'palestinians' with 'arabs'. There are israeli arabs who have israeli ID cards and israeli number plates and there are palestinians who are not israeli citizens and so do not carry israeli ID cards and do not have israeli number plates on their cars - big surprise eh?

Did you know that israeli army, police and even UN vehicles also all have different number plates? Such discrimination! Shocking!

"Meaning there are two forms of minimum wage Arab and Israelis"

Again you confuse 'arab' with 'palestinian' - perhaps what you mean is that there are two forms of minimum wage - one for israeli citizens and another for non-israeli citizens..

As for Druze being 100% pacifists.. well I can't claim to have researched their culture but it is a fact that MANY druze actually serve in the israeli army and make it a career even becoming high ranking officers.. gotta love those peaceful paratroopers.. ;)

There are issues over land ownerships, I will not dipute that claim.

I will also not dispute that there is a certain amount of discrimination against arabs in israel and it has worsened since the palestinians kicked off the intifada.. years of daily terror attacks have a way of dividing people.

JeremySF

thanks for setting the record straight...or at least offering a REAL perspective! i truly didn't have the energy.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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JeremySF

when I lived in Israel over 10 years ago, there was very little discrimination against Arabs, but after all that has transpired over the past 10 years, I would be surprised if that hadn't changed.

Also, if you want to talk about discriminiation, anyone can go peruse an Arab paper to view the rampant anti-Semitism, and in fact arab-nazism that is now alive and well throughout the Arab press.

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"Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions."
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[Labret]

wtf is Arab Nazism.

Tell me more about this Arab National Socialism and what it has to do with their dislike of Jews.

I was always under the impression that it was a dislike based on theological issues, among other things. I was unaware that the Arabs were now neo-nazis.