interesting to know if this is VISA US issue or all regions of VISA

charly what are you talking about? If visa's managers start following your way of thought, this industry will die. Free site have more stolen content than avs, tgps do have stolen content, tons of paysites do have stolen content? Does this means their models should go offline as well?

AVS is a major part of this industry, many honest webmasters work on them. Most of them are much older than me and this income feeds their families and allows their kids to study.

I do not want to see it going nowhere.

Well it is 2:30 am here now, so unless Masturbationman can show us right now several major AVS sites that "HAVE BEEN" cut off by most of the major billing companies, then HE HAS LOST the bet, and it is time to pay up !!!!

What happens later in the days or hours to come is NOT relevent to the bet, it will however be interresting to see the outcome,

The bet has ended Masturbationman...:winkwink:

Eh, you know how it goes, if US starts it then the rest will follow... if it's International then usually the US will follow

I can see the point of the issues that Visa has with it, I am just not sure whether it will turn out to be something major or if it can be handled easily enough to make it a moot point --

Wow I didnt know they give out and Xbox here.

I only know of one of the major Third party processors that is not doing any more avs sites ...

WTF are you talking about Fletch? Visa can't get rid of TGP's because there's no processing involved for a TGP....they're FREE.

It would really suck to see AVS webmasters take a hit over something like this. Alot of webmasters do AVS exclusively simply because they feel its the responsible thing to do. Softcore tours and lots of feeder sites that can only be seen by adults.

Hmmmm.

The dead line has come and gone. I still don't see any AVS's that have shut down.

Guess it was really nothing but a drama queen who started this thread. LOL! Oh well. We all like a little attention every now and then.:)

Hugs,
Danielle

The time has past and it looks like you owe the following.

Me................$200.00
Lensman........$100.00
Pornwolw.........$50.00


The three of us would never welch on a fair bet, so I would hope you would not either.

cp sites using avs?

"A senior Scotland Yard source quoted in today's Daily Mirror: "The forecast is that the Visa list may top 100,000 alone. Together with Mastercard and American Express customers, plus the other major credit card providers, the projection is the total number of British men who have been accessing these sites will exceed 250,000."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29043.html


It appears that the web pedo "site" these punters originally visited
was, in fact an Adult Verification Service, (one of many such sites)
called "AVS" where you give your credit card, they give you an ID
number and that allows you to access to various porn web sites,
numbered in *thousands* Now, not all the web sites this service
granted access to were at all illegal, and it seems that the legal
sites (the vast majority in fact) will have directed their visitors,
to the offending "Landslide inc" AVS web site, for payment and/or
authentication to gain access to these *adult* porn sites. IE: It was
the adult site they visited in the first place, and they went to
Landslide simply to get a password to go in there to view legal
images.
But as a result of this the police now have the credit card number,
and the name and address of such people, and could soon be paying them
a visit to seize their computers and search their houses, just because
they visited adult web siites and are innocent of any
wrongdoing.......

Who turned into a pumpkin?

I'd have a look and see who's processing certain avs sites now.

So whats the deal with this then? Is it bullshit or what?
Most of our income comes from AVS right now so thats not gonna be good for us..........

Our sales look fine right now and we haven't had any news from our AVS system!

kimmy, care to spell all of this out for those of us who don't keep up w/ the whole AVS thing? i wouldn't even know where to start looking, nor who used to process for who. has there indeed been an upheaval in this arena of the industry..?

On Monday, not before. I want to hear that it's done from the person I speak with at one of the processors' before I say a word.

I'm sure you can understand that -- if they perhaps didn't get them all or maybe even let some remain for one reason or another then it wouldn't be fair to the ones that may still be there or to their resellers to cause any sort of panic or issues for anyone that might not be affected.

That's a good point. CCBill & IBill have to review new sites when a webmaster registers, obviously. But does Visa check out every new site an already registered webmaster adds?

Premium AVSs would be built more often than paysites...but it still seems like a ton of work, if that's the case.

Bump.

c'mon kimmy, its monday... please spell this out for those of us who don't keep up w/ AVS at all... any big news in the industry is going to have a ripple effect in other arena's certainly... has the sky fallen yet again..?

I was waiting for this news to hit.

Heard it 2 weeks ago

Didnt want to be the bearer of bad news, but this is True AVS may be screwed by Visa.

well?

The processor in question " had a last minute stay of execution Friday night" --- so I'm not going to name names since there's no point in upsetting people.

The bottom line is that Visa is taking a hard look at AVS and deciding if and how they want to proceed with processing for them. Some people think that Visa will dump them entirely and are making pre-emptive plans to remove them from their portfolios.

Others are taking a more 'wait and see how it comes down the pipe' approach and are attempting to work with Visa to come up with a solution that is workable for all parties involved.

This is not about age verification as Visa sees it. This is about the fact that Visa is unable to monitor the sites that are in the AVS effectively and completely, as they want to do with everything high risk they are processing for these days.

i've heard that certain avs' have had to submit reasons why they should not be considered an ipsp. so - i can confirm that visa is seriously looking into the avs model.

I think the death of AVS would be a huge boom for those tokens they've tried to make popular for the last few years.

just charge enough tokens so that you get the same money you used to get from your avs sales, and you're good to go

still, seems like a slap in the face for all webmasters who felt that AVS was the moral proper and responsible way to go. Might as well be making fucking SE spam pages under non-adult keywords if they are going to stuff it up your ass

The statement isn't ignorant it is the way Charly sees webmasters. Remember he is a big supporter of APIC so he must share thier vision, you are automatically guilty until you prove yourself not guilty.

And doest a certain post starter owe some people some money now?

Using a cc as an age verifier does not by any stretch of the imagination equal what AVS sites have evolved into... I don't remember who had the very first one but taking the premise of age verification and turning it into a marketing tool was an act of pure genius, if you ask me.

However, it's not about age verification any more, it's about surfer dollars and the companies that enable those transactions want to know who's doing what. It's as simple as it gets.

Indeed he does:winkwink:

Here is what I have heard:

1) AVS sites are like 3rd party processors and they would have to have each Webmaster that builds sites in the AVS register with VISA for $750.00

2) If you do not own or control the site you can not process it

I have a friend who brokers merchant accounts, and this is the information she has given me, basically an AVS is an aggregator.

If I get more info I will post it here!

Wrong.

This isn't an aggregator issue or anything like it for most AVS systems. The product purchased is an ID which belongs to the AVS itself, not the participating sites. The AVS acts as a ticketing agency. They don't act as a processor for the sites. The customer belongs to the AVS, not the webmasters. The webmasters do not even know who the AVS' customers are.

I am just transferring the data they received at the ETA conference in Las Vegas April 8-10th.

I sure hope I am wrong ... I really do, but Brujah without the participating sites there would not be an AVS ID to sell.

The AVS allows access to the members area of the individual site that they do not control, with their ID, processed through their merchant account, so they are processing for the WM's members area, just because they do not charge for each individual site I am not sure how you can say that is not true. But I hope I am wrong!

You owe me a bottle of something too bro :thumbsup

I like wine!

You could just do this...

1. show surfer a tour on a porno domain
2. tell surfer "if you want to get in, go to this mainstream URL (open it in a popup hehe) and donate $20 for a password"
3. surfer clicks to a clean mainstream site where he spends money for a password that "coincidentally" is the same password to give him access to your porn site...

Visa can't do shit because the surfer never paid for porn :1orglaugh

:Graucho

You sir, are a blathering old fool.

AVS webmasters buy thousands of dollars in content, hell maybe even yours, although I never would. My AVS projects so far this year have cost me over $2,000 in content alone. Anyone who shits on their customers (or potential customers) with the ignorance you so blatantly display on this board daily will not get a dime from me.

Did anyone read the article on Adult Webmaster?

http://www.theadultwebmaster.com/new...visa_avs.phtml

I didnyt wanna reread everything, i need an update

Either way this goes, I don't think AVS sites are going anywhere, but the structure may have to change.
They can all convert to the "sex key model" where the surfer isn't actually charged for the AVS membership, but signs up for a free trial to a paysite and gets the AVS pass for free.

Premium AVS programs would be trickier I assume, but I'm sure there are people much smarter than I am setting up contingencies right now. (If they haven't set them up already)

Us too. We spend around $3000 per month on content. Although we do have paysites as well as AVS sites. To say that the world would be better without AVS sites is wrong. It would be different not better!

We have 4 very good AVS sites that make good sales and the content on everyone of them is licensed and paid for by us. Not our AVS people!

Brujah, you can say wrong til the cows come home and you have a valid point -- I drew a little pic of both sides of the coin above in a post.

But at the end of the day, it's only the way that Visa chooses to see it, as far as they are concerned.

Soooo what is the verdict, are AVS's going down the tubes or not? Since most of my sites are AVS, and I run an AVS only link list, I'd really like to know if I'm fried or not.

Sorry double post.

response from AC:


Does Visa Squeeze AVSes With Third-Party Biller Crackdown?
>> Charles Farrar

http://www.avnonline.com/issues/2003...041703_5.shtml

ENCINO, CA - Visa USA is cracking down on getting so-called high-risk Internet payment service providers (HRIPSP), or third-party billers, and their related sponsored merchants to register. That has provoked a flurry of speculation that it amounts to a possible squeeze against age and adult verification services (AVSes). But a leading AVS says there's a huge distinction between an HRIPSP and an AVS - and the confusion may be leading to a false sense of panic.

Visa USA has identified "certain Internet merchants," not specified explicitly, as age or adult verification services and password brokers, saying they "recently learned that some of these merchants may in fact be" HRIPSPs, according to a bank letter a copy of which was obtained by AVN Online.

Adult Check says the AVS's "dynamic infrastructure" differs from that of a third-party biller or HRIPSP. "The customers are ours, we provide technical and customer support, we are responsible for chargebacks, and Webmasters drive traffic to our site and consumers purchase a password that grants them access to our network of sites," said Cory Hedgepeth, Adult Check's head of public relations and marketing.

He also said the apparent HRIPSP crackdown is by Visa USA and not Visa International, with whom many if not most adult verification services are registered. "(We are) comprised of several international business entities that fall under the Visa International stipulations and have contracted out Cybernet Ventures," he said.

The four "dynamic infrastructure"" points were "very important" differences between companies like Adult Check and third-party billers, Hedgepeth continued. "(We're) the consumer's destination point throughout their surfing experience with our product," he said. "Webmasters serve Adult Check by acting as commissioned sale?s representatives and selling our product; once a Webmaster sells an Adult Check password, that new member is very unlikely to ever return to that specific site; rather, they will return... to the destination point of AdultCheck.com."

He added that when accounting for a consumer's experience with a third party biller's site, the experience differs in that the customer "only accesses that specific site and will inherently return to the specified destination."

When taking into account the consumer experience with a third party biller?s site the experience is much different in the way that the consumer only accesses that specific site and will inherently return to the specified destination.

But the Visa USA letter also reminded banks it doesn't recognize age verification services relying on Visa account information to confirm a user's legal age as a valid merchant category. "The mere possession or submission of a Visa account number by a cardholder cannot be used to validate a cardholder's age," the letter said.

Adult Check says they use an in-depth "comprehension and grasp on age verification process" that complies wholly with state, federal, and association regulations on age verification. "We have always understood that the use of a credit card does not verify age," Hedgepeth said.

Where's the definition by VISA of what a HRIPSP is, and does it describe an AVS ?

'come where the flavor is.' - The Dwarves.

For all of you out there that think this is a good thing think about this (assuming you don't rely on AVS). You will have all of these AVS webmasters (myself included) that rely mostly if not completely on AVS sites to generate income for them with a big problem, AVS gone = no income.

The largest problem is as such: the TGPs will become even more saturated than before as most of us who have never dreamt of using TGPs for traffic will start relying on them a bunch. So if you are a TGP type guy, your income is going way down. Same with link lists and the lot.

The few foreign AVS out there that don't use Visa USA will get a shit load of new webmasters and your sale, if you use one of these, will go down.

This sucks on multiple levels, but shit happens I guess.


Flow

Masturbationman = Todd Dugas at iBill. I still don't know why they let him keep sturring up shit.

Hah that's priceless if true.

iBill probably turned in their own clients. :321GFY

"iBill probably turned in their own clients" - Not true.

iBill likes money just like the rest :)

heh... sock pupper theatre tonight on GFY.. :321GFY

Ok I really don't want to read all this can someone sum it all up for me. :)

BluMedia

BC?