as the of cost of design goes up, does conversion improve?

[quiet]

in my mind, a paysite that converts very well with the content at hand, is worth a HUGE amount of money. but does design cost actually correlate with conversion in most cases?

[quiet]

damn alliteration.

[m0rph3us]

no

[Jakke PNG]

Shut up already. You're spoiling it for us that aren't leaving the biz in a year.

[sweetcuties]

I'm facing this exact issue right now with one of my sites... do I keep it the same way, making the same $$.. (can't complain) or do I build another site. Either way a new design isn't gonna cost alot and if it converts better, the sky's the limit

[stocktrader23]

Never has for me. My crappiest designs when I first started converted 10 times better than the good ones.

And I despise splash pages. They look so like a big business trying to get your money. Before I sold porn I closed any porn site with a fancy splash page without a second look. Content and Marketing.

[Ray@TastyDollars]

The sites content, trailers, free clips, etc sells the mebership. In my experience over designed sites with heavy graphics and bells & whistles dont sell for shit.

[Shoplifter]

No.

Sometimes if a sites has great content and it is incorporated into the design it works out well.

I know sites that convert very well and haven't updated their looks since 98.

[Ray@TastyDollars]

Here is a quote form my site below

"Your surfers want to see porn, not award winning graphics"

[p00p]

Originally posted by quiet
in my mind, a paysite that converts very well with the content at hand, is worth a HUGE amount of money. but does design cost actually correlate with conversion in most cases?

You know the answer to this....

[quiet]

Originally posted by p00p

You know the answer to this....

just attempting to facilitate a dialogue

[Jakke PNG]

Originally posted by quiet


just attempting to facilitate a dialogue

stop it.

[FATPad]

Is the design flashy with blinky things? I love blinky things.

[quiet]

so, which designers do you consider to be completely and utterly focused on a single thing: conversion? assuming the limits of the content given to work with. just curious...

[BRISK]

People don't join paysites because it has a nice design, they join because they want to see the content it has inside the members area.

As long as the paysite doesn't look like it was designed by some 13 year old kid in his parents basement in 1998, it should be fine.

It's the same thing with porn DVDs, people don't buy a certain DVD just because it has a nice design, they buy it because it has a girl that they think is mega hot and they want to see her getting fucked.

Why do people buy music CDs? Because it has a nice album cover design? I doubt it. They buy a music CD because they want to hear the songs on it (the content).

Paysite design is packaging, not the product. It's important to have a decent design so people think your site isn't just some scam to take their money, but in the end, people are paying for the product (your content), not your webdesign skills.

[besterman]

Quality design is important if you want to convey an image of professionalism and quality. These two are important because you are asking surfers to fork over $29.95. But for an amateur site, I think a simple design is Exactly what you want to convey...

quiet is such a tease...

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by scorpion3600
Quality design is important if you want to convey an image of professionalism and quality. These two are important because you are asking surfers to fork over $29.95. But for an amateur site, I think a simple design is Exactly what you want to convey...

Are you a designer? Like I said, I hated splash pages when I surfed porn because it does look like a business trying to impress you. That = ripoff the majority of the time.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by quiet
so, which designers do you consider to be completely and utterly focused on a single thing: conversion? assuming the limits of the content given to work with. just curious...

Don't know of any because I designed my highest converting sites. People here would laugh at the first design I used and it still converts better than any fancier ones I have ever used.

[Jakke PNG]

I'm afraid.

[BRISK]

Originally posted by scorpion3600
Quality design is important if you want to convey an image of professionalism and quality. These two are important because you are asking surfers to fork over $29.95. But for an amateur site, I think a simple design is Exactly what you want to convey...

I love simple. So many paysites I've seen that have way too many areas on their tour. They're just messy and confusing. They don't flow well. Alot of TGPs are like that too, they've got a billion links everywhere all over the page, some go to sponsors, some go to galleries. Looks like poo.

[p00p]

Originally posted by quiet


just attempting to facilitate a dialogue

I tried that with my snoop dog thread last night and got flamed for it.

[Kat - Fast]

Originally posted by stocktrader23

And I despise splash pages. They look so like a big business trying to get your money. Before I sold porn I closed any porn site with a fancy splash page without a second look. Content and Marketing.

agreed

Originally posted by p00p

I tried that with my snoop dog thread last night and got flamed for it.

that is cuz you are less educated but more talented than him, which makes you worse and dumber.

[Gman.357]

Originally posted by quiet
so, which designers do you consider to be completely and utterly focused on a single thing: conversion? assuming the limits of the content given to work with. just curious...

NONE. Designers balance this with the desire to look talented, and impress you with their skills. And often times, the two goals do NOT mix well. If a designer focused solely on conversion, they'd have nothing to populate their portfolio with.

[TheJimmy]

Originally posted by Ray
Here is a quote form my site below

"Your surfers want to see porn, not award winning graphics"

However, I think it really depends on what you are selling...

Most porn they just wanna see some hot clips/previews & your hottest chicks...

but if they're going for the 'glam & pornstar' thing they may want the extra fluff?

that's just a guess, my best converting shit is the SIMPLEST shit...


KISS works in adult


foooo shoooo

[p00p]

Originally posted by Equinox




that is cuz you are less educated but more talented than him, which makes you worse and dumber.

Can you translate that for me? I am too dumber to understand it.

[quiet]

Originally posted by scorpion3600
Quality design is important if you want to convey an image of professionalism and quality. These two are important because you are asking surfers to fork over $29.95. But for an amateur site, I think a simple design is Exactly what you want to convey...

this is exactly what i was getting at, in a round-about way. out of touch...

[AdultNex]

In my experience, and from the people I know-- Better designs convert better and more efficiently than "mediocre" designs.

It depends on how you coin the term "fancier design". It could be more sophisticated, but it depends greatly on how you design it. Many people enhance their paysite design without using a proper use of design elements (arranging images, text, etc.).

Another thing I want to mention is that would you rather go with a paysite that doesn't look like it was put together properly (poor design with good content)-- Or would you rather go with a fantastic paysite design (good design with good content)-- Knowing that the paysite webmaster actually had the effort, budget, and professionalism to collaborate a good design together.

I think of it as comparing cars. If both these cars were powered by the same engine, which would you choose? Ford Pinto or a BMW M3?

[Gman.357]

Quallity and professionalism can be easily and convincingly displayed with a simple, yet clean design focusing on the content. You don't need fancy graphics for that.

A clean design, with quality photo samples, good sales pitch, and easy navigation is all you really need to convert SURFERS. Impressing webmasters with how much you spend on a fancy design is another story.

[Libertine]

Originally posted by BRISK
People don't join paysites because it has a nice design, they join because they want to see the content it has inside the members area.

As long as the paysite doesn't look like it was designed by some 13 year old kid in his parents basement in 1998, it should be fine.

It's the same thing with porn DVDs, people don't buy a certain DVD just because it has a nice design, they buy it because it has a girl that they think is mega hot and they want to see her getting fucked.

Why do people buy music CDs? Because it has a nice album cover design? I doubt it. They buy a music CD because they want to hear the songs on it (the content).

Paysite design is packaging, not the product. It's important to have a decent design so people think your site isn't just some scam to take their money, but in the end, people are paying for the product (your content), not your webdesign skills.

At the risk of being rude, bullshit.

Yes, the surfer joins because of what he expects to find inside. However, what tells him what's inside? The design (including preview stuff ofcourse).

When you buy music CDs, you go by the music from that band you've already heard, right? Now, clearly that can't be compared to porn sites.

When people join paysites (or not), they make that choice for a large part based on what they see in the tour. Since it's the design that determines what exactly is shown (girls shown, pictures shown, parts of pictures shown, how much shown, etc) in the tour, the design is a key factor.
People join a paysite because they want to see what's inside the members area indeed, but it is the design that determines what they expect to see.
Ofcourse, that says nothing about if the design should be pretty or not. How pretty a design is makes little difference. However, what a design shows, what it focuses on and the kind of image it gives of the members area are all huge factors in conversions.

in my opinion design matters to some extent, but this is most certainly an example of how NOT to do it.

[Captain P]

Didn't read the whole post but here's my



Most designers SUCK at marketing. Lots of sparkles won't sell shit.. but a killer design in combination with a hard sell from someone who thinks outside the box is UNBEATABLE.

The sum is greater than it's parts !! or sumthin' like that

[Gman.357]

Originally posted by punkworld


At the risk of being rude, bullshit.

Yes, the surfer joins because of what he expects to find inside. However, what tells him what's inside? The design (including preview stuff ofcourse).

When you buy music CDs, you go by the music from that band you've already heard, right? Now, clearly that can't be compared to porn sites.

When people join paysites (or not), they make that choice for a large part based on what they see in the tour. Since it's the design that determines what exactly is shown (girls shown, pictures shown, parts of pictures shown, how much shown, etc) in the tour, the design is a key factor.
People join a paysite because they want to see what's inside the members area indeed, but it is the design that determines what they expect to see.
Ofcourse, that says nothing about if the design should be pretty or not. How pretty a design is makes little difference. However, what a design shows, what it focuses on and the kind of image it gives of the members area are all huge factors in conversions.

I agree. But let's also make this point...

Left to their own devices, most if not all designers today will photoshop your content to death, using tons of effects and filters that really don't leave the surfer with a clear impression of what's inside. Reality/girls-gone-nuts type of sites seem to convert really well because MOST of them focus on presenting content samples, and update the frontends with new samples. Some are ugly by today's standards, but they convert well. Premium costly designs usually neglect this aspect, and depend on lots of bullshit effects, insanely ornate interfaces, and car-salesman-like text pitches.

[BRISK]

Originally posted by punkworld


At the risk of being rude, bullshit.

Yes, the surfer joins because of what he expects to find inside. However, what tells him what's inside? The design (including preview stuff ofcourse).

When you buy music CDs, you go by the music from that band you've already heard, right? Now, clearly that can't be compared to porn sites.

When people join paysites (or not), they make that choice for a large part based on what they see in the tour. Since it's the design that determines what exactly is shown (girls shown, pictures shown, parts of pictures shown, how much shown, etc) in the tour, the design is a key factor.
People join a paysite because they want to see what's inside the members area indeed, but it is the design that determines what they expect to see.
Ofcourse, that says nothing about if the design should be pretty or not. How pretty a design is makes little difference. However, what a design shows, what it focuses on and the kind of image it gives of the members area are all huge factors in conversions.

You're considering the content that is used in the tour to be "design", I consider content used in the tour to be content. To me, design is all the other crap on the tour, like the little graphics or the layout.

[Rictor]

I have never had any luck converting pay sites that are just splash page after splash page. Site that give an actual preivew of the content (free pics and trailers) usually convert well for me.

I have a site with no graphics at all besides the site logo...just tables and preview thumbs...and it converts great. It has about 100 free clothes pics of the amateur models inside the site to tease the surfer. If you are selling a softcore site, I don't think you should show any nudity. Tease tease tease.

If you are doing a hardcore site, that isn't really possible.

[BRISK]

Originally posted by punkworld
When you buy music CDs, you go by the music from that band you've already heard, right? Now, clearly that can't be compared to porn sites.

Why not?

Music is content. If I hear a song on the radio and I like it (preview of the content), I'll go and buy the album.

Porn is content. If I see a picture on a paysite tour that I like (preview of the content), I'll join so I can see more pics like it.

Magazines are content. If I'm standing in a shop and skimming over a magazine (preview of the content) and I see an interesting article, I'll buy the magazine.

Movies are content. If I'm sitting in a movie theatre and I see a 2 minute trailer (preview of the content) of a new movie coming out that looks good, I'll go see that movie.

Content is the product. Design is the packaging. You can do your best to use the packaging to sell the product, but ultimately people are paying for the product, not the packaging.

To test this, you might wanna hire AMP to design a killer paysite design using old crappy content from 1997. Let us know how it sells. My prediction: it wouldn't sell worth shit. Why? Because while it may look all whiz bang super neat, it's still trying to sell crappy old content from 1997, and nobody wants that enough to get out the credit card and pay for it.

[Gman.357]

I would say the main thing is to get a design that's modular. Meaning, you can manually update it and change things to the front end easily when need be. Getting a design that's absolutely final, and you can't update when new content is added or price structure changes is just silly in today's competitive content-oriented marketplace.

That's why I say simple is better. It can look professional, and still be effectively simple.

[models]

web erotica is intended to develop an intimate one-on-one emotional response so the person pulls out his wallet and goes through the tedium of entering his personal financial info into a template.

in my view, for erotica to be hot (effective) and to elicit the emotional response it must be personal.

this means not overly packaged, slicked up, or gagetized, or hyped in an unrealistic manner.

the most important thing about web design is the funnel toward the join page.

i many cases overly slick packaging can impede rather than enhance the product.

alsscan looks like it was designed by a high school kid---it converts strongly.

playboy.com is the ultimate slick. i have heard that their web operation is a big loser.

it's mostly about the content, understanding your market and testing your market, and collecting the money.

[Libertine]

Originally posted by BRISK


Why not?

Music is content. If I hear a song on the radio and I like it (preview of the content), I'll go and buy the album.

Porn is content. If I see a picture on a paysite tour that I like (preview of the content), I'll join so I can see more pics like it.

Magazines are content. If I'm standing in a shop and skimming over a magazine (preview of the content) and I see an interesting article, I'll buy the magazine.

Movies are content. If I'm sitting in a movie theatre and I see a 2 minute trailer (preview of the content) of a new movie coming out that looks good, I'll go see that movie.

Content is the product. Design is the packaging. You can do your best to use the packaging to sell the product, but ultimately people are paying for the product, not the packaging.

To test this, you might wanna hire AMP to design a killer paysite design using old crappy content from 1997. Let us know how it sells. My prediction: it wouldn't sell worth shit. Why? Because while it may look all whiz bang super neat, it's still trying to sell crappy old content from 1997, and nobody wants that enough to get out the credit card and pay for it.

Buying a cd is like being a recurring member. You have already heard a large part of the contents of the cd, and most likely even have previous CDs from the band - you know what to expect.
When you go see a movie, you most likely have not only seen the trailer, but have also read reviews and such, and know what to expect.
When you buy a magazine, chances are that you have bought the same magazine before already, and know what to expect.
When you buy a porn site membership, you have way less to go by. You go by what's in the tour. The tour most likely doesn't contain a tenth of the total member section.

Ofcourse pictures are also part of the design. Take all the nudity away from a design, and in general there is almost nothing left. The whole point of a design is showing a preview of the content in the best, most appealing, most eye-catching way possible.
If you think a design only includes the extra graphics, you very obviously have not grasped the concept of designs.

You mentioned movie trailers - a movie trailer is a design. It is not the "content" of a movie, that is, it is not some random scenes from the movie, but rather the most appealing and eyecatching parts seamlessly put together. A movie trailer has music, voice-overs, flashes from image to image - it's a design.
A good design includes a preview of the content, and presents that in the best way possible.

[besterman]

Originally posted by stocktrader23


Are you a designer? Like I said, I hated splash pages when I surfed porn because it does look like a business trying to impress you. That = ripoff the majority of the time.

Let me put it this way...if you know you have a dynamite content, whatever you put out front doesn't matter - super beautiful or just plain, people will join...

Surfers want to have fun, part of the fun is seeing beautiful graphics in front of them. If the front is beautiful AND the promised content is beautiful, then it should work...

[Gutterboy]

imo, there are two types of sites where good graphic design is very important. If you have a themed site like BangBus, you need a design that can visually communicate the sites backstory. The other case would be where a good designer can create the illusion of exclusivity or something special on a site that is lacking original content.

If you do have shitloads of original content and don't need to present it within the context of some creative fiction, the only design job that needs to be done is presenting the content in a way that clearly tells the surfer "join and you'll get lots more of this". Quiets site & galleries are the epitome of that.

[421Fill]

Interesting to see how the consensus is that the more you pay for a design equates to more graphical bells and whistles. When I design for clients, I charge less for "graphically heavy" type designs than I do for designs that I know will convert and are made the way I think they should be made.... which is reflected in the designs of our paysites that I've done for HTC. Often times, the client will want that graphically involved style so, as a designer, you do it... of course you offer an opinion also, but you can't force someone to pay for a design style that they don't want.

Also, designs that look like a 'kid' designed them does not always equal simple and effective, or vice versa, for that matter.

There has to be a happy medium, between showing a level of 'professionalism', and showing the content that is offered, and sometimes a more graphically involved design is needed to convey the message and sometimes not.


Stocktrader: While your opinion as a 'past surfer' are appreciated and valued, that does not make them the only opinions out there. Just because as a surfer, you hated a particular type of design, does not mean that all other surfers feel the same as you do. You evolved towards being a webmaster, so you are obviously not the type of surfer that we aim our sites towards anyways.

[HS-Trixxxia]

The way I see it is the surfer - when put in front of a beautiful splash tour of a site expects that the company or webmaster behind it MUST have alot of money/content/or talent to make such an appealing design and most likely will have alot of content since it appealed to their eye. You may get good one-time sales but I'm not so sure you'll have a 'member'. A member is someone who'll stay longer than the standard 2-3 months.

The site that has a decent looking tour - something that looks like the webmaster is not a designer however that the samples for the tour are appealing and you have a barrel full of good content - this will get you 'members'.

I've joined sites with great tours - never stayed more than a month - inside....I found better pictures on TGPs.

Not to knock the designers capabilities, because I tell you they do great work and quite frankly think they are overqualified for some of the sites they have to 'redo' - but I think the design should reflect the quality/quantity content of the site - even if it means your designing skills have to be lowered a notch or two.

Thanks my

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by turbo



Stocktrader: While your opinion as a 'past surfer' are appreciated and valued, that does not make them the only opinions out there. Just because as a surfer, you hated a particular type of design, does not mean that all other surfers feel the same as you do. You evolved towards being a webmaster, so you are obviously not the type of surfer that we aim our sites towards anyways.

Agreed. However, before porn I have always sold something to somebody. The simple approach has always worked best in everything I have done. Sales are sales, and the wording and sales pitch is more important than the "flash" on anything IMO.

[KRL]

From all my years in this biz I do think design is influential in the ultimate buying decision for the consumer. Most important of anything though is clearly presenting the potential customer with exactly what it is that turns him on. A guy doesn't need to see a fancy design to be motivated to join a foot fetish site for example. But if he see's some great quality feet pics and they're placed within a professional or easy to navigate design that I believe will give him the confidence he needs to whip out his credit card.

A lot of it depends on the content you're marketing. If the focus is on broadband quality movie streams, I think you do need a MikeW high end style to match that type of content.

If you are marketing a home web cam though, the design should look amateur or else the guy will know its just another big porn company pretending to be am.

[sextoyking]

Hi,

Yes indeed the design does mean a bunch when your trying to get that surfer to pull out his or her credit card, check, etc.

Look you are competiting against thousands of other sites out there, you want the most professional high quality design you can get, in most cases.

Remember every click / hit that comes to your site via your traffic or your webmasters traffic is money, it has to try and count for something. Of course I am partial to our company webinc.com, after all this time in the design biz, our team pretty much knows what will work and what won't for a design. Of course you can have the best design in the world, and if you have shitty or crap traffic, the signup ratio can be shit too.

Keep it simple / stupid (as they used to say in the army )

1 splash

2-3 tours (or 1 long tour page)

1 join page
------------------------

peace

todd

[sextoyking]

Quiet,

to your orginal question.

Well we haven't increased paysite prices in over '1' year I belive.

Our great paysite deal is one of the most popular

1 splash, 3 tours, 1 join, 10 banners, $1499.00

Look around, alot of our designs are some of the highest converting.

besides the shameless plus I just put in , shit $1500.00 aint nothing for a good high quality design. with most programs, they pay that back in 1-2 days or so.

Sure quiet, there is 400-900-1k designs out there, but as Grandpa always told me, you get what you pay for

peace

todd

[Marcus]

My best selling site with the best ratio is shit ugly and looks like doctor zhivago threw up on it. But it sells

[czarkazm]

the biggest adult sites are all simple:

thehun, voyeurweb, persiankitty, sleazydream, projectvoyeur.

No one cares for fancy bells and whistles....content is king.