Ibill fined $5.85 million dollars by Mastercard - GoFuckYourself.com

FATPad · 04-01-2003, 01:15 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030331/icpt10-k.html

Look for the paragraph that starts with "We process MasterCard and Visa transactions through First Data. On March 14, 2003, First Data was notified by MasterCard of an estimated assessment with respect to iBill?s noncompliance with MasterCard?s charge-back rules."

Interesting.

directfiesta · 04-01-2003, 01:29 PM

Nice fine ... probably comes from:

- free trial, not so free
- chargebacks when the client just wanted to cancel future billing

I just signed up for a 7 days trial at 9.95 , couldn't access for a day, and got rebilled for a month 3 days later. No wonder people chargeback. Then, when they see it is easy, they adopt that as a way of "surfing".

I also had clients that never called for a chargeback, but contacted Ibill for help, or cancelling the upcoming rebill, and their staff instead made a 3 months chargeback...

Shoplifter · 04-01-2003, 01:30 PM

Their stock is up .36 on the basis of this filing.

hershie · 04-01-2003, 01:30 PM

I don't want to be a drama queen, but I am shocked how fast things can fall a part for these guys and the fallout we all suffer. I just put their shopping cart up for every set I have last week when I re-launched my site and made some sales and just learned that you can't cash their checks in Canada and now they are getting massive fines on top of all the class action lawsuits filed and the massive nose dive of their stock and all the sorted horror stories heard on this board. Yikes, looks like I made a huge mistake.

Jive · 04-01-2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
Nice fine ... probably comes from:

- free trial, not so free
- chargebacks when the client just wanted to cancel future billing

I just signed up for a 7 days trial at 9.95 , couldn't access for a day, and got rebilled for a month 3 days later. No wonder people chargeback. Then, when they see it is easy, they adopt that as a way of "surfing".

I also had clients that never called for a chargeback, but contacted Ibill for help, or cancelling the upcoming rebill, and their staff instead made a 3 months chargeback...

There doing this method as well I find with globill trial based wise.
Acpay you just can't get the signers in? scrubbing? who knows? my opinion

Shoplifter · 04-01-2003, 01:34 PM

There is a more literal examination of this at:

http://money.cnn.com/services/ticker...4620.26541.htm

chupacabra · 04-01-2003, 01:35 PM

one word... ccBill..!

Interlude · 04-01-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie
I don't want to be a drama queen, but I am shocked how fast things can fall a part for these guys and the fallout we all suffer. I just put their shopping cart up for every set I have last week when I re-launched my site and made some sales and just learned that you can't cash their checks in Canada and now they are getting massive fines on top of all the class action lawsuits filed and the massive nose dive of their stock and all the sorted horror stories heard on this board. Yikes, looks like I made a huge mistake.

Not to be a dick, but you should have done a little searching around before choosing iBill... people have been bitching about them and their policies for months now. Even their fans stop short of encouraging new people to sign on, best I've heard is "switch primaries, use them for rebills only."

directfiesta · 04-01-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Interlude
Not to be a dick, but you should have done a little searching around before choosing iBill... people have been bitching about them and their policies for months now. Even their fans stop short of encouraging new people to sign on, best I've heard is "switch primaries, use them for rebills only."

He probably took it because:

- they have a shopping cart
- you do not need to pay the Visa fee when selling hard goods.

Aside from your own merchant account ( try to get one in Canada ... ), there is not many solutions.

hershie · 04-01-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

He probably took it because:

- they have a shopping cart
- you do not need to pay the Visa fee when selling hard goods.

Aside from your own merchant account ( try to get one in Canada ... ), there is not many solutions.

Your assumptions are bang on. As well, I already had an account with them but hadn't used them since the whole Visa fees/U.S. Corp. registration fiasco.

I hope and expect to replace PayPal and iBill with epassporte but am still in the dark about a shopping cart solution that I can use epassporte with, if anyone has looked into this yet?

jact · 04-01-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

Your assumptions are bang on. As well, I already had an account with them but hadn't used them since the whole Visa fees/U.S. Corp. registration fiasco.

I hope and expect to replace PayPal and iBill with epassporte but am still in the dark about a shopping cart solution that I can use epassporte with, if anyone has looked into this yet?

All your eggs into one basket? Ouch. I'm thinking about adding Epassporte support to our website but only as a secondary option.

How'd you manage to keep using iBill being Canadian and all?

hershie · 04-01-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact

All your eggs into one basket? Ouch. I'm thinking about adding Epassporte support to our website but only as a secondary option.

How'd you manage to keep using iBill being Canadian and all?

I have had them as a processor since early last year and was required to fill out whatever form they needed to forward to Visa...back in the fall. At the time they said I could still process without the U.S. Corp set-up or the $750 Visa fee as I am a Canadian biz. I thought they were feeding me B.S. so I took them down. Two weeks back I re-visited the issue with them in light of losing PayPal shortly, and they swore up and down that the Visa thing didn't apply to Canadian's (I am not sure if its' because I am a simple B2B merchant with no affliate program or consumer sales...). Now I see that the work-around may be that they are processing through an EU bank for Canadians. Can that be the way they get around it all? However, if I can't cash the checks like others here have been saying because its drawn on an EU bank, well I am up shits creek without a solution still.

High Quality · 04-01-2003, 03:20 PM

man, ibill is totally fucked eh?

Rand · 04-01-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

Your assumptions are bang on. As well, I already had an account with them but hadn't used them since the whole Visa fees/U.S. Corp. registration fiasco.

I hope and expect to replace PayPal and iBill with epassporte but am still in the dark about a shopping cart solution that I can use epassporte with, if anyone has looked into this yet?

Epassporte is a Visa account, not an IPSP. I don't expect that they will offer a shopping cart feature, however, it might be possible to integrate one from your side. There would need to be some discussion about this. Drop me a line and tell me what it is exactly that you want to do.

[email protected]

jact · 04-01-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

I have had them as a processor since early last year and was required to fill out whatever form they needed to forward to Visa...back in the fall. At the time they said I could still process without the U.S. Corp set-up or the $750 Visa fee as I am a Canadian biz. I thought they were feeding me B.S. so I took them down. Two weeks back I re-visited the issue with them in light of losing PayPal shortly, and they swore up and down that the Visa thing didn't apply to Canadian's (I am not sure if its' because I am a simple B2B merchant with no affliate program or consumer sales...). Now I see that the work-around may be that they are processing through an EU bank for Canadians. Can that be the way they get around it all? However, if I can't cash the checks like others here have been saying because its drawn on an EU bank, well I am up shits creek without a solution still.

Strange, they cut my ass off for being a Canadian. Not that it matters, my sales went up within 15 minutes of switching from iBill (NO SHIT).

jact · 04-01-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand

Epassporte is a Visa account, not an IPSP. I don't expect that they will offer a shopping cart feature, however, it might be possible to integrate one from your side. There would need to be some discussion about this. Drop me a line and tell me what it is exactly that you want to do.

[email protected]

Hershie, could you CC me on the conversation? I'm hoping to integrate Epassporte payments into my existing shopping cart.

hershie · 04-01-2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand

Epassporte is a Visa account, not an IPSP. I don't expect that they will offer a shopping cart feature, however, it might be possible to integrate one from your side. There would need to be some discussion about this. Drop me a line and tell me what it is exactly that you want to do.

[email protected]

Hi,

I had communicated with you by email already a few times and sent you another this moirning.

On the above topic - maybe if you can have a quick look at my set up so you will see what I am talking about - http://www.adultcontentzone.com/latitia.htm - here is one page like all the rest where I have model sets and have two options for someone to purchase the sets. I just want to be able to continue the basic structure I have set up with a shopping cart accepting epassporte as well as still allowing webmasters to use Visa if possible with you (i.e. - does the Epoch side of things come into play for that), but taking into account that I am a Canadian merchant with only B2B sales of goods and do not have a US presence/Corp. or have payed teh $750 Visa fees. Your thoughts?

hershie · 04-01-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact

Strange, they cut my ass off for being a Canadian. Not that it matters, my sales went up within 15 minutes of switching from iBill (NO SHIT).

As soon as I can give them the heave-ho, they are history. Now I am left making sales with them not knowing when my first cheque arrives if I am even going to be able to deposit it based on what others here have been saying.

When coupled with PayPal pulling out, I feel like the proverbial canoeing up shit's creek without a paddle.

jact · 04-01-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

As soon as I can give them the heave-ho, they are history. Now I am left making sales with them not knowing when my first cheque arrives if I am even going to be able to deposit it based on what others here have been saying.

When coupled with PayPal pulling out, I feel like the proverbial canoeing up shit's creek without a paddle.

There are options for us Canadians out there, unfortunately they cost.

directfiesta · 04-01-2003, 04:02 PM

They cost... I would like to know those options....

I did make a US corp ( that cost's) and paid the 750.00 to visa ...

So if something else is worth it, I don't mind paying, but ONLY if it is going to be "longrun" ( in adult: let's say 2 years of peace...).

No banks here want to touch adult, even worse Internet ....

jact · 04-01-2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
They cost... I would like to know those options....

I did make a US corp ( that cost's) and paid the 750.00 to visa ...

So if something else is worth it, I don't mind paying, but ONLY if it is going to be "longrun" ( in adult: let's say 2 years of peace...).

No banks here want to touch adult, even worse Internet ....

Which state did you incorporate in? Did you go LLC or managed corporation? I'm holding off on going this route until I get a little more information on tax laws and what's involved in the whole multi-country thing.

dchottie · 04-01-2003, 04:08 PM

Here's a freebie shopping cart that's actually quite good. Not sure what all payment processors it works with though. I built a mainstream video reseller site for someone and utilized it for them. They were using authorize.net for processing though.
http://www.oscommerce.com

directfiesta · 04-01-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact

Which state did you incorporate in? Did you go LLC or managed corporation? I'm holding off on going this route until I get a little more information on tax laws and what's involved in the whole multi-country thing.

A corp in Delaware, with a EIN # from IRS.

I used those guys below. Was quite happy and it was fast ( kept my rebills going... 95% VISA)).

But still am fighting with Ibill, because they fucked up ... stop paying till Feb.15th, now they say they sent cheques, but I never got them ( 5). I have a US bank account and wanted the $$$ deposited there. But that was too complicated for them....

So much for my small mysery....

<html>

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<meta name="generator" content="Namo WebEditor v5.0">
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 <a href="http://www.qksrv.net/click-1249282-9323464?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ailcorp.com" target="_blank" onmouseover="window.status='http://www.ailcorp.com';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=' ';return true;">
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Rand · 04-01-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

Hi,

On the above topic - maybe if you can have a quick look at my set up so you will see what I am talking about - http://www.adultcontentzone.com/latitia.htm - here is one page like all the rest where I have model sets and have two options for someone to purchase the sets. I just want to be able to continue the basic structure I have set up with a shopping cart accepting epassporte as well as still allowing webmasters to use Visa if possible with you (i.e. - does the Epoch side of things come into play for that), but taking into account that I am a Canadian merchant with only B2B sales of goods and do not have a US presence/Corp. or have payed teh $750 Visa fees. Your thoughts?

I'm not sure I completely understand your question.

But, you are Canadian and sell content. That's the same situation as Jact.

As I stated on the other thread, epassporte is a payment method and I don't see them issuing a shopping cart but there may be ways for you to integrate a shopping cart with EP, not sure. We would need to look at that a little closer.

It would probably be a lot simpler if you were an Epoch client but you would have to register with Visa and pay the registration. Depending on how much volume you do, MPA2 pays the processing fees for you if you use their cascading service.

How is it you are able to accept Visa now? Looks like you process with IBill but you don't have a U.S. presence???

jact · 04-01-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand

How is it you are able to accept Visa now? Looks like you process with IBill but you don't have a U.S. presence???

That's what I was saying, totally strange.

Rand · 04-01-2003, 05:13 PM

The only way I know IBill could legally process for a non-U.S. presence / adult WM / from Canada is if IBill had Canadian Merchant accounts.

IBill?

jact · 04-01-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand
The only way I know IBill could legally process for a non-U.S. presence / adult WM / from Canada is if IBill had Canadian Merchant accounts.

IBill?

They shut off my Visa when all of this took place (Of course I'd been trying to close my account for TWO MONTHS and had already stopped using them) but they were set in their stance that I wasn't american, I didn't get Visa.

On a side note, PSW Billing Solutions fucked up and left Visa on for one of my sites! I won't use it just in case I get in shit over it.

Rand · 04-01-2003, 05:28 PM

Probably a wise decision on your part RE PSW.

No more rebills either. Right?

hershie · 04-01-2003, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand
The only way I know IBill could legally process for a non-U.S. presence / adult WM / from Canada is if IBill had Canadian Merchant accounts.

IBill?

I just got off the phone with iBill after my continued paranoia was kept at a high level thanks to this thread, wondering why they insist I can use Visa without the US presence when everyone says otherwise.

They continue to insist they made "special arrangements" for Canadians. I had asked that question to them several other times over the past few weeks as I wanted to quickly get a solution in place before PayPal said no more and until I can get hooked up right with epassporte, and their message and response has been consistent: "Don't listen to others - you are good to go" I just checked my stats and indeed my last few transactions are there and they also said if I wasn't able to process - there would be no transactions going through.

jact · 04-01-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand
Probably a wise decision on your part RE PSW.

No more rebills either. Right?

Since I only sell content and no memberships I wouldn't know.. I would assume not though. I think I'm the only guy in the industry without a Fisher Price "Start Your Own Paysite" kit from Toys R' Us.

jact · 04-01-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

I just got off the phone with iBill after my continued paranoia was kept at a high level thanks to this thread, wondering why they insist I can use Visa without the US presence when everyone says otherwise.

They continue to insist they made "special arrangements" for Canadians. I had asked that question to them several other times over the past few weeks as I wanted to quickly get a solution in place before PayPal said no more and until I can get hooked up right with epassporte, and their message and response has been consistent: "Don't listen to others - you are good to go" I just checked my stats and indeed my last few transactions are there and they also said if I wasn't able to process - there would be no transactions going through.

Very strange. I'd still be worried.

Rand · 04-01-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

I just got off the phone with iBill after my continued paranoia was kept at a high level thanks to this thread, wondering why they insist I can use Visa without the US presence when everyone says otherwise.

They continue to insist they made "special arrangements" for Canadians. I had asked that question to them several other times over the past few weeks as I wanted to quickly get a solution in place before PayPal said no more and until I can get hooked up right with epassporte, and their message and response has been consistent: "Don't listen to others - you are good to go" I just checked my stats and indeed my last few transactions are there and they also said if I wasn't able to process - there would be no transactions going through.

Interesting.

That's all I have to say about that.

Rand · 04-01-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact

Since I only sell content and no memberships I wouldn't know.. I would assume not though. I think I'm the only guy in the industry without a Fisher Price "Start Your Own Paysite" kit from Toys R' Us.

Yet.

hershie · 04-01-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact

Very strange. I'd still be worried.

Worried!!! If I ever do see my check, based on everyone else's experience in some threads the past few days - no bank including my own will likely deposit it.

hershie · 04-01-2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rand

Interesting.

That's all I have to say about that.

Try to buy a set and see if it goes through

jact · 04-01-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

Worried!!! If I ever do see my check, based on everyone else's experience in some threads the past few days - no bank including my own will likely deposit it.

Oh you can deposit it, just doesn't mean it won't come back to you :D I'm still waiting for a reply from iBill regarding my "Collection item" check.

EscortBiz · 04-01-2003, 05:41 PM

jact · 04-01-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
ICQ

Eh?

Indeed · 04-01-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

"Don't listen to others - you are good to go" I just checked my stats and indeed my last few transactions are there and they also said if I wasn't able to process - there would be no transactions going through.

last time a processor told me that, I lost all my rebills...just thought I would let you know...

hershie · 04-01-2003, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Indeed

last time a processor told me that, I lost all my rebills...just thought I would let you know...

I asked them to send me a letter so at least I have something in writing attesting to my active status and here is what they sent:

Dear Hershie,

Thank you for contacting Client Services.

In regards to your request: The status of your account

As per our conversation, this email is to inform you that you are an active client in our system and as of this moment you are in compliance with what we've requested of you with regards to the VISA regulations. If this information should change in the future, we would then notify you of any changes you would need to make to your account at that time. As long as the current information is correct you can continue to process your transactions using iBill, until you receive correspondence from us stating otherwise.

jact · 04-01-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

I asked them to send me a letter so at least I have something in writing attesting to my active status and here is what they sent:

Dear Hershie,

Thank you for contacting Client Services.

In regards to your request: The status of your account

As per our conversation, this email is to inform you that you are an active client in our system and as of this moment you are in compliance with what we've requested of you with regards to the VISA regulations. If this information should change in the future, we would then notify you of any changes you would need to make to your account at that time. As long as the current information is correct you can continue to process your transactions using iBill, until you receive correspondence from us stating otherwise.

Sounds like what PSW sent us a few hours after they cut us off

rowan · 04-01-2003, 06:07 PM

I just noticed this, I've emphasised the relevant bits for the goldfish:

We process MasterCard and Visa transactions through First Data. On March 14, 2003, First Data was notified by MasterCard of an estimated assessment with respect to iBill?s noncompliance with MasterCard?s charge-back rules. First Data notified us that MasterCard has reviewed the historical charge-back percentages for InterCept and Old iBill for the period from January 1, 2001 through February 28, 2003 and has determined that those percentages exceeded MasterCard?s limits. On March 31, 2003, First Data notified us that MasterCard had determined the final amount of the assessment to be $5.85 million. Of the $5.85 million, $3.5 million was recorded as an adjustment of the iBill purchase price, $1.9 million was recorded as an expense for the quarter ended December 31, 2002 and $450,000 will be recorded during the first quarter of 2003. As of December 31, 2002, First Data was holding a reserve of approximately $12.0 million of money owned to us to cover our potential liability for merchant processing card activities, including potential charge-back penalties. This $12.0 million amount is included in Other Noncurrent Assets in the balance sheet contained in our consolidated financial statements. The MasterCard fine will be deducted from that amount. We believe that First Data will maintain a reserve of approximately $5.0 million going forward and will refund any excess from the reserve to us. 

Am I reading this right? ibill are paying a fine from webmaster's 10% rolling reserves? Shouldn't this money be held in trust?

directfiesta · 04-01-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie

I asked them to send me a letter so at least I have something in writing attesting to my active status and here is what they sent:

Dear Hershie,

Thank you for contacting Client Services.

In regards to your request: The status of your account

As per our conversation, this email is to inform you that you are an active client in our system and as of this moment you are in compliance with what we've requested of you with regards to the VISA regulations. If this information should change in the future, we would then notify you of any changes you would need to make to your account at that time. As long as the current information is correct you can continue to process your transactions using iBill, until you receive correspondence from us stating otherwise.

Maybe they consider you sell " hard goods" if you are sending a cd to the webmasters....

Keep a close look on your account so you don't get fucked....

chupacabra · 04-01-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Am I reading this right? ibill are paying a fine from webmaster's 10% rolling reserves?

49thParallel · 04-01-2003, 06:14 PM

Hmmm....am I missing something here???

I've been reading on the board for months webmasters complaining that they had not been paid by IBill. Now, Intercept Inc, (the owner of IBill) makes public notice that they have been fined millions and are open to new fines from MasterCard & Visa for excessive charge-backs.

And then I read numerous posts in this thread wondering if people should leave IBill....

At the risk of restating the blatantly obvious...duhhhhhh!!

Shoplifter · 04-01-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rowan
I just noticed this, I've emphasised the relevant bits for the goldfish:

Am I reading this right? ibill are paying a fine from webmaster's 10% rolling reserves? Shouldn't this money be held in trust?

No. They are paying a fine out of the reserve amount held by the bank. They are also saying that the bank is not demanding further funds outside of the remaining deposit.

Resolving these matters is actually good news, and their stock was up 50 cents a share today. Some people made a lot of money.

iBill_Service · 04-01-2003, 06:29 PM

InterCept processes MasterCard transactions through First Financial Bank and its affiliate, First Data Management Services Corporation (together referred to as "First Data"). On March 14, 2003, First Data was notified by MasterCard of an estimated assessment with respect to noncompliance with MasterCard's chargeback rules by Internet Billing Company (iBill), InterCept's wholly-owned subsidiary. First Data notified InterCept that MasterCard had reviewed the historical charge-back percentages for the iBill operations for the period from January 1, 2001 through February 28, 2003, and had determined that those percentages exceeded MasterCard's limits. On March 31, 2003, InterCept agreed to pay a total of $5.85 million to First Data and MasterCard for the final assessment. Of that amount, $3.5 million was recorded as an adjustment of the iBill purchase price, $1.9 million was recorded as an expense for the quarter ended December 31, 2002, and $450,000 will be recorded as an expense during the first quarter of 2003.

Explaining the MasterCard assessment, Collins said, "As previously disclosed in February, we settled all remaining escrow issues with the former owners of iBill. As part of that settlement we received $8.0 million from the escrow and agreed to assume responsibility for all credit card association assessments that related to activities prior to our purchase of iBill.

49thParallel · 04-01-2003, 06:45 PM

And my question is, has there been substantial changes in the way you do business now? I, for one, have not noticed any changes in the advertising styles of the numerous companies who use IBill as their billing processor.

So, it would stand to reason that the fines levied by Visa & Mastercard for excessive charge-backs will continue to be an issue now and in the future, until such time as Visa amd Mastercard simply pull the plug.

OY · 04-02-2003, 11:39 AM

These are all reasons why you need to secure yourself and use more than one processor, like Rand from Epoch said. Epoch has been our primary processor for years now, and it still is in our cascading processor affiliate software. You should definately take a look at it and decide whether you want you business to be safe with several processing options or totally reliant on the one processor that one day might shut you off.

Here is a link to MPA2 from Mansion Productions

Call or ICQ me with any questions you might have...

04-01-2003, 01:15 PM	#1
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Ibill fined $5.85 million dollars by Mastercard http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030331/icpt10-k.html Look for the paragraph that starts with "We process MasterCard and Visa transactions through First Data. On March 14, 2003, First Data was notified by MasterCard of an estimated assessment with respect to iBill?s noncompliance with MasterCard?s charge-back rules." Interesting. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

04-01-2003, 03:20 PM	#13
High Quality Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 5,741	man, ibill is totally fucked eh? __________________ RecurCash.com - Averaging $38/sale with 60% revshare in the first 4 months alone! Convert your TEEN traffic today @ better than 1:500 guaranteed. ICQ me: 18287590!

04-01-2003, 04:08 PM	#22
dchottie Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 894	Here's a freebie shopping cart that's actually quite good. Not sure what all payment processors it works with though. I built a mainstream video reseller site for someone and utilized it for them. They were using authorize.net for processing though. http://www.oscommerce.com __________________

04-01-2003, 05:28 PM	#28
Rand Industry Vet Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 2,663	Probably a wise decision on your part RE PSW. No more rebills either. Right? __________________ -- Rand Payment Industry - Communications - Quality Assurance

04-01-2003, 05:41 PM	#37
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04-01-2003, 01:29 PM	#2
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,677	Nice fine ... probably comes from: - free trial, not so free - chargebacks when the client just wanted to cancel future billing I just signed up for a 7 days trial at 9.95 , couldn't access for a day, and got rebilled for a month 3 days later. No wonder people chargeback. Then, when they see it is easy, they adopt that as a way of "surfing". I also had clients that never called for a chargeback, but contacted Ibill for help, or cancelling the upcoming rebill, and their staff instead made a 3 months chargeback...

04-01-2003, 01:30 PM	#3
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	Their stock is up .36 on the basis of this filing.

04-01-2003, 01:30 PM	#4
hershie Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,642	I don't want to be a drama queen, but I am shocked how fast things can fall a part for these guys and the fallout we all suffer. I just put their shopping cart up for every set I have last week when I re-launched my site and made some sales and just learned that you can't cash their checks in Canada and now they are getting massive fines on top of all the class action lawsuits filed and the massive nose dive of their stock and all the sorted horror stories heard on this board. Yikes, looks like I made a huge mistake.

04-01-2003, 01:34 PM	#6
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	There is a more literal examination of this at: http://money.cnn.com/services/ticker...4620.26541.htm

04-01-2003, 01:35 PM	#7
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	one word... ccBill..!

04-01-2003, 04:02 PM	#20
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,677	They cost... I would like to know those options.... I did make a US corp ( that cost's) and paid the 750.00 to visa ... So if something else is worth it, I don't mind paying, but ONLY if it is going to be "longrun" ( in adult: let's say 2 years of peace...). No banks here want to touch adult, even worse Internet ....

04-01-2003, 05:13 PM	#26
Rand Industry Vet Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 2,663	The only way I know IBill could legally process for a non-U.S. presence / adult WM / from Canada is if IBill had Canadian Merchant accounts. IBill?

04-01-2003, 06:07 PM	#42
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	I just noticed this, I've emphasised the relevant bits for the goldfish: <i>We process MasterCard and Visa transactions through First Data. On March 14, 2003, First Data was notified by MasterCard of an estimated assessment with respect to iBill?s noncompliance with MasterCard?s charge-back rules. First Data notified us that MasterCard has reviewed the historical charge-back percentages for InterCept and Old iBill for the period from January 1, 2001 through February 28, 2003 and has determined that those percentages exceeded MasterCard?s limits. On March 31, 2003, First Data notified us that <font color="#000080"><b>MasterCard had determined the final amount of the assessment to be $5.85 million.</b></font> Of the $5.85 million, $3.5 million was recorded as an adjustment of the iBill purchase price, $1.9 million was recorded as an expense for the quarter ended December 31, 2002 and $450,000 will be recorded during the first quarter of 2003. As of December 31, 2002, <font color="#000080"><b>First Data was holding a reserve of approximately $12.0 million of money owned to us to cover our potential liability for merchant processing card activities, including potential charge-back penalties.</b></font> This $12.0 million amount is included in Other Noncurrent Assets in the balance sheet contained in our consolidated financial statements. <font color="#C00000" size=3><b>The MasterCard fine will be deducted from that amount.</b></font> We believe that First Data will maintain a reserve of approximately $5.0 million going forward and will refund any excess from the reserve to us. </i> Am I reading this right? ibill are paying a fine from webmaster's 10% rolling reserves? Shouldn't this money be held in trust?

04-01-2003, 06:14 PM	#45
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Hmmm....am I missing something here??? I've been reading on the board for months webmasters complaining that they had not been paid by IBill. Now, Intercept Inc, (the owner of IBill) makes public notice that they have been fined millions and are open to new fines from MasterCard & Visa for excessive charge-backs. And then I read numerous posts in this thread wondering if people should leave IBill.... At the risk of restating the blatantly obvious...duhhhhhh!! Last edited by 49thParallel; 04-01-2003 at 06:18 PM..

04-01-2003, 06:29 PM	#47
iBill_Service Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 15	InterCept processes MasterCard transactions through First Financial Bank and its affiliate, First Data Management Services Corporation (together referred to as "First Data"). On March 14, 2003, First Data was notified by MasterCard of an estimated assessment with respect to noncompliance with MasterCard's chargeback rules by Internet Billing Company (iBill), InterCept's wholly-owned subsidiary. First Data notified InterCept that MasterCard had reviewed the historical charge-back percentages for the iBill operations for the period from January 1, 2001 through February 28, 2003, and had determined that those percentages exceeded MasterCard's limits. On March 31, 2003, InterCept agreed to pay a total of $5.85 million to First Data and MasterCard for the final assessment. Of that amount, $3.5 million was recorded as an adjustment of the iBill purchase price, $1.9 million was recorded as an expense for the quarter ended December 31, 2002, and $450,000 will be recorded as an expense during the first quarter of 2003. Explaining the MasterCard assessment, Collins said, "As previously disclosed in February, we settled all remaining escrow issues with the former owners of iBill. As part of that settlement we received $8.0 million from the escrow and agreed to assume responsibility for all credit card association assessments that related to activities prior to our purchase of iBill.

04-01-2003, 06:45 PM	#48
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	And my question is, has there been substantial changes in the way you do business now? I, for one, have not noticed any changes in the advertising styles of the numerous companies who use IBill as their billing processor. So, it would stand to reason that the fines levied by Visa & Mastercard for excessive charge-backs will continue to be an issue now and in the future, until such time as Visa amd Mastercard simply pull the plug.

04-02-2003, 11:39 AM	#49
OY Industry Pioneer Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA/EU/ASIA Posts: 5,401	These are all reasons why you need to secure yourself and use more than one processor, like Rand from Epoch said. Epoch has been our primary processor for years now, and it still is in our cascading processor affiliate software. You should definately take a look at it and decide whether you want you business to be safe with several processing options or totally reliant on the one processor that one day might shut you off. Here is a link to MPA2 from Mansion Productions Call or ICQ me with any questions you might have... __________________ Around since 1997, and the company that introduced "Cascading Billing" in MPA3® Affiliate Management and Tracking Software Outsourcing With A Norwegian Twist - NordBits - Inquire within!