Sure! Email me :)

Done, sent from my outlook account :)

Shap, if paysites are dead why do companies keep launchng them?

You say 'paysites need to change' yet offer no ideas on HOW or WHAT paysites should change into. This is because (I believe) there IS no way for paysites to 'evolve'. Can there be interaction with Members from the models (like Claudie-Marie and Robbie do)? Sure, that's great for solo models. What about 'generic' or niche porn? As you said, paysites were doing this twenty years ago so I guess paysites have lasted, eh?

Let's face it Shap: If you wanted to invest hundreds of thousands you could create and launch a Blacked or Fake Taxi today and it would be successful. But you don't want to go down that road. Instead you want to create another tube site. How is that innovation and change? LOL

I'm pretty sure that Fake Taxi guy went from tubes to paysites.. :upsidedow

Most tubes charge now for decent quality content and/or full clips, they are glorifed paysites.

Yup - and the team behind Blacked and Tushy run Porntube. According to Shap they must be dinosaurs. LOL

Exactly. But tubes cannot go into the production biz full-time so instead they 'partner' with content producers who supply them with what they need most: content. And still that's not enough! Which is why you see older content on the tubes mixed in with the new. Take away the new completely and....:(

Shap is correct the current pay site model is not the future. Sure we do very well right now but you can be damn sure we are always looking into new ways of selling it. Content will be produced yes but the there will be and should be a different way to monetize it.

What about making paysite apps that you have to pay for to see everything and that the only possible way to view it is through the app?.. (Desktops can use apps, too, just sayin')
Very high quality and semi niche, though.. :upsidedow

I used to say that the only way I'd ever want to own paysite would be if it was best in class at something. Because if it's not best in class why even bother. Now I'm not so sure I'd even want a best in class paysite. It's a such a boring, limited model way past it's expiration date.

How? Like Shap you offer nothing in terms of HOW.

So what is the future? Interactive porn? VR? Sure - but like with 4K it will take a long time for the masses to accept it and become the norm. And still, in the end, it's just pics and videos (albeit extremely high end).

Either something is free or it isn't so how do we monetize it differently? Micro-payments? Pay-per-minute? Added value (bulk pricing)? ALL these ways and more exist now. No sorry, everyone says 'in the future things will be different..." but no one has any reasonable, practical ideas or solutions as to HOW thngs will be different. Let's face it: we have reached the limits of content delivery. Maybe robots or holograms will be the Next Big Thing.

What if someone gets a job for the big tubes, then goes rogue?...... :winkwink:

50 tube ideas

Hard to not agree with this. Also, its not just layout/design/new marketing strategies. If your talking FREE sites, the MAIN problem is traffic period. Cant rely on google/organic traffic. Trading traffic has started to become less and less because of the quality/malware from ads etc. Worst part is the pop up blockers. No point to do free sites when 30-40% of your hard earned traffic is blocking your source of income.

No future change to this in sight. Yes, some people have figured ways around the pop up blockers but the amount of edits a webmaster has to do to make the code work consistently is another problem. WHAT HAS NOT BEEN SEEN OR DONE AT THIS POINT? That includes content shooting. I mean seriously. The past 5-7 years it seems the ideas/marketing strategies have stalled. I come from a very successful network of sites before I sold them and there is not much left unless you are well established and not many companies are anymore.

Only time will tell If a different model catches fire BUT everyones abandoning the sites that made them money which are tgps/mgps/trading sites etc with the thought that tubes is wheres its at because of the success of some tubes. If you look at the Tube model as a whole, there is NOT many successful tube sites at all. Costs are too much to compete with that model with little reward. As for the content/paysite problem solver, I have no idea. Something re-inventive would have to be seriously done to save the pay model for content now that everything is free and everything has been done. Technology seems to be the only future idea that could help with new ideas/content shooting. Is it VR? Is it 4k/5k/6k? Who knows. As of now, nothing new is on the horizon besides VR. If that isnt the problem solver, then adult is gonna keep being in a stalled state imo. You cant rely on SEO/organic traffic. It fails everytime. New update happens and boom its all gone. Just too unreliable to focus any money/time on it.

YES! Someone who "gets it". :)

The only future I see is a bifurcated market, meaning there will be two types of people: those who want free and those who want convenient/better quality. I keep coming back to the water example because it is spot on. Those who want a quick drink will go to their faucet or water fountain. Done. Those concerned with health issues, convenience, a way to calculate their water intake, etc will spend $2 to buy a bottle of water. That's it folks.

So in the end it's marketing and nothing more. Can you sell snow to an eskimo? If yes then you will be just fine. if not, try something else with your life.

Yeah, higher quality niche water exists, but it makes it hard to sell it at a shop when the whole way there and also while you're in line, there are free water fountains lined up on either side of the sidewalk and sometimes in the shop. When you're not thirsty anymore, you'll go home without buying..... :(


(Which is another good reason to promote a dating WL, even cams, but dating is better....) :upsidedow

Really? I guess you cannot sell ice to eskimos so that's why you went into dating. :)

I went to the store yesterday to buy a case of water because it was on sale. It was ninety degrees outside. On the way into the store I passed two (free) water fountains. Did I stop and drink from them? No - I bought the case of water, took one out, opened it and drank it. And when I got home, instead of turning on my faucet (which has a water filter on it) I put some bottles of water in the fridge. Later I opened one and drank it, never even went near my faucet.

So who won? Poland-fucking-Springs, that's who. I want to be Poland Springs, not the guy giving up and selling pizzas instead.

Nah, that's just my job now, I still know how to sell paysite memberships. But dating is still better.. :winkwink:

I just wanted to argue about water, but still, you buy a case of water to refrigerate and enjoy later. So maybe we should be working on selling better, colder porn to enjoy later and not just now and warm like on the tubes?.. :upsidedow

You also have the advantage of being the actual brand like Evian, instead of being the stores re-selling it on commission AND in most cases paying for more overhead like shipping.. :winkwink:

But seriously, paysites make lots of sales, especially on tubes and is why tubes sign up for the program that you have and make the same, sometimes more, as a regular affiliate with the banners and links on the video pages.
They pay affiliates $1.5-$3ishCPM to bring in traffic, too..
So, the only way to stop tubes is for every company and program to pull out, but that won't happen, because traffic still is and always will be king.. :upsidedow

Too bad :2 cents:

Well the whole idea of "stopping tubes" should be abondoned. What we need is a more balanced partnership WITH the tubes (something I have been advocating ever since tubes came along).

I'm guessing the reason nobody has offered 'any reasonable, practical ideas or solutions as to how things will be different' is because most reasonable, practical people know how it's damn near impossible to in good faith predict such a thing. It's usually not until after a lot of trial and error a lot of risk and a lot failure that a new technology a new model, or some other future innovation can be truly considered as 'disruptive'. The only reasonable, practical prediction one can make with any type of certainty whatsoever is that there will be change. From what I can tell that's exactly what both Shap and Roald have done. How is that so difficult to understand?

But change into WHAT? Just saying 'change will happen' doesn't make you an Einstein. LOL Duh, things will change but nobody knows how. Brilliant.

So until then it's business as usual folks. Ciao.

Apparently you're not very familiar with Einstein's way of thinking because if you were you'd know that he'd tell you the exact same thing. Change will happen. That is all we know. You're not looking for Einstein, you're looking for a false prophet to walk through the door and tell you exactly what you want to hear about the future even if it has no bearing in truth. You're looking for Al Sharpton. Have luck. And for the love of god don't even think about getting pissy with me again. I'm trying hard to be nice here but you're making it really difficult

Do you have anger issues? Seriously, because no one is being pissy with you or trying to rile you up here. :error

I am not looking for a Prophet. But I am not the one saying 'things gotta change!" and then not offering any ideas. LOL WILL things change? Sure. But look at paysites from fifteen years ago. What's the difference? Better design, clearer images, HD...but they're still pics and vids to whack off to. I'M saying this will never change, regardless of technology and I have 15+ years as my proof. But those saying paysites will die if they don't change have ZERO 'proof' this will happen other than the natural decline when 'free' is introduced into a market.

People still (and always will) pay for porn. This is an ancient argument. WHERE they spend their money is the only real argument left.

One last comment:

The days of thinking "I'll start a porn site and make millions!" are long over. Sadly, they ended just when I was starting in this business. But the days of "I'll start a porn site and make a nice middle-class income!" are alive and well and here right now.

People need to ratchet down their expectations when it comes to making $$$ in adult. Unless you are willing to invest a lot of cash (and some are) and stay in the Game long enough to build a brand the best most can hope for is a solid six figure income, which is way better than selling shoes 9-5. If you make 100K you are in the top 5% of earners. Not bad for being a smut peddler and working in your underwear at home. But to make the Bro bucks you gotta spend like a Bro (or get someone else to). Those are your options. Still a great Industry to be in just not 2004 great, that's all.

Look... this is the problem here...

I wanted to sign up at a paysite but I was thirsty so I decided to go to the store first to buy some water. BUT... at the fountain there was a girl sitting... Short story shorter: I banged her at the fountain and then went to buy my water. When I got home I really wasn't into signing up at the pornsite anymore... Conclusion: If paysites cannot instantly deliver a bottle of water with their memberships... this business is doomed...:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

Uhhh, you're the only one who's been pissy with anyone in this thread. Can't say I blame you though as I probably wouldn't be too happy if people who know what they're talking about told me that the crux of my business consisted of 80+ rapidly depreciating assets.

LOL I make more money every year and new paysites are opening every week. So yeah, the end is nigh. :)

This isn't about me, or the future of paysites. It's supposed to be about Shap's Next Big Thing and I hope he does it regardless of what it is. We need Shap's insights and experience in this Industry. :thumbsup

In the 16 years, I've been online paysites have evolved very little. The majority of changes were driven by Server-BW costs and Speed. The other was the quality of cameras. Pay $30 and get 30 days access to recorded porn of a certain niche/style. With the advent of Tubes, that model was doomed.

After 8 years of Tubes, the market is dominated by a few. Breaking their hold on surfers will be hard to impossible. And need a lot of money.

Webcams are going to the free/tips model and girls working independently. Allowing models to bypass the studio model, work from home and even drive their own traffic. The studio has huge costs, model, studio, traffic, site owner.

So where are the opportunities today?

In 1998, there were very few ways to get started without spending a lot of money and risk losing it.

Think of it this way. When the billions of surfers have all jerked off to the millions of free porn movies. Hell will have frozen over.

ROI will kill most paysites. It will become too expensive to shoot decent enough porn to convert enough people to pay for the enterprise. The survivors will be owned by a few large companies.

Why partner when they can own?

:thumbsup

Now what is the future??? And will it be profitable?

The old model is dead. It's little more than pay your money and get a package of recorded porn. 99.99% who buy porn do so to jerk off quick and get on with their lives, that's been constant for all my years in the business. Online changed the delivery method and nothing else.

So the target market is 00.01% who want more than a jerk off with recorded porn. This is a portion of the market who want more than a product that allows them to imagine they're in the scene participating or just watching. They want interaction. Webcams give them that.

Can a pornsite merge the two? Online shoots made to look sexier than they are, live BTS, girls chatting with and to an online audience at pre-arranged times. Forget the $30 model, people will pay the money for the right product, the hard part is getting the product right.

This is being done already.

I wasn't about you until you made it about you. :1orglaugh

Anyway hopefully for your sake you're right. If I'm wrong it will have no effect on my life whatsoever. But if you're wrong you'll be fucked.

Traffic isn't a problem. The problem is coming up with something addictive enough to keep people coming back and staying put. Think of it in terms of a lake and a river.

Tubes go from streams, with little traffic which never stops to Oceans which are the first port of call when someone feels horny. If in 1995 someone was giving away enough porn to satisfy the urge. Sales would have sucked. We didn't so sales were great.

Surfers don't want to have to close a pop-up after watching porn. Because they have no intention of buying from it. I advertised in magazines and the CTR 1-1,000 approx. This was in the days when people expected to pay for porn. If you fuck with surfers, do you expect them to buy more?

So in the end, it's the product. Anyway, portable porn is already with us, my phone has enough space for 10 scenes. Because you can't put porn into a bottle and call it Evian Porn.

People will pay for a better product, how much do 15 minutes cost with a webcam girl?

What's needed is a product good enough to market to an audience that has many free choices, it's willing to pay for the quality. And here you hit a brick wall. Maybe it will be VR, so we can all wait for that and hope it's not another 3D damp squib. Other than that it has to be a better live interactive experience.

Most camsites, for me, are a turnoff. Some dumb girl vaguely interested or bored tapping on a keyboard 3 feet to the left of the camera, reading text on a page 3 feet right of the camera, dressed in cheap lingerie and in a box decorated in the 1990s. OK, I exaggerate a bit. :winkwink:

There are millions of lonely men, single and married, who would love to have a relationship with a girl online. Not even sex, just relationships. The hard part is converting traffic. Girls have to be sold to a surfer before he lands on the site, the girl has to talk, she can read the text on a screen but it has to next to the camera. She has to able to block people and she has to be in a setting that doesn't demean her of her viewers.

Can this be done in/near a City location with a large studio, or with girls working from home? Something that has to be worked out. What's the technical side? Not my field.

The audience is there, you have to build the product and get it right to make money.

Links please.

So basically just what good camgirls do?

Yes. Not those tied to the studio system and earning peanuts.

I'm thinking in a broader way, of a model/system that's a level above what those girls do and more profitable for them or letting girls who don't want to do porn earn money.

i'm not really following it either.....

Let's jump straight to magic join links and be done with it :upsidedow