I Bill question

[Miranda]

With all the negative exposure on this board about IBill and people not getting paid and very unhappy with support, Would anyone still consider using an affiliate that only uses IBill for the processor?

Or would knowing that IBill is involved, would that alone make you not interested or not sign up with a program that uses them?

Thanks In Advance,
Miranda

[gothweb]

These days, I honestly think hard about using any affiliate that uses anything but CCBill. People who do their own billing can shave, iBill looks like its about to tank, GloBill has bounced checks to me, WSB is clearly screwed...

[Interlude]

... Epoch is solid.

[SENSEX]

What about Verotel? I never hear bad about them, but thats just me.

[Cindyff]

We signed up for http://www.busty2.com program using Epoch and all our checks for the last 9 months have been on time within a day or two. And no shaving as Epoch controls all payments to us.
Cindy xx

[ZoiNk]

I won't use sponsors that use ibill on revshare. Simple as that. I prefer epoch, but will do ccbill as well. Most of the other ones I won't touch.
ZoiNk

[AmeliaG]

Globill makes it easy to combine all your revshare accounts into one wire -- same as CCBill -- and the bounced check thing only happened when they changed processing during the Visa crisis. Globill made good on all bounced checks provided to them after this and I believe the only ones which bounced were the ones webmasters took a loooong time to deposit. IMHO if you are doing any kind of volume on your affiliate programs, then it makes sense to go with a wire anyway and Globill has their wires priced only a couple bucks more than what Epoch charges to cut a check.



--Amelia G

[tony286]

IBill is fine got my check (a nice sized one at that) and it cleared no problem. I think alot of what you are seeing is the filtering Visa wanted to do on adult websites.

[NetRodent]

Originally posted by gothweb
People who do their own billing can shave,

Affiliate programs that use third party billing can shave almost as easily. Third party offers no more protection than a security blanket: you feel warm and fuzzy but that's about all.

[FreeNetPass Steve]

How's the epoch admin?

Will they send checks to affiliates like CCBill does?

[ZoiNk]

Originally posted by FreeNetPass Steve
How's the epoch admin?

Will they send checks to affiliates like CCBill does?

Epoch pays weekly, minimum $50 to program owners or affiliates, $2 cheque printing fee. (If you actually see the cheques, you can tell why it is $2. Heat sensative ink, etc). No idea about the admin for paysite owners, the affiliate one is very basic (actually 2 of them). One is just sales, another one is the optional clicktracking and sales. Has conversion ratios and such. Heard a rumor that it is being overhauled sometime in the future, since they haven't changed much of anything in years.
ZoiNk

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by gothweb
These days, I honestly think hard about using any affiliate that uses anything but CCBill. People who do their own billing can shave, iBill looks like its about to tank, GloBill has bounced checks to me, WSB is clearly screwed...

CCbill is worry free eh? The whole 3rd party processing industry is very shaken up, and those who aren't are too new/naive to know they should be.

Sounds like it's McDonalds for you...err no, McDonalds is having big problems too. Now we can't even rely on that burger flipping job. Notice the trend?

[FreeNetPass Steve]

Thanks for the info Zoink. Does iBill charge for sending checks to affiliates? I know ccbill charges a %.

And does anybody know about PSWBilling or NetBilling?

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by gothweb
People who do their own billing

If you are a webmaster sending your traffic somewhere... this is about the BEST situation you have going.

The sponsors that are going to shine through all this (for as long as possible) are the ones that are diversified and have multiple payment solutions balanced through multiple processors/merchant banks.

Those who don't spend the time/money to code solutions that balance out their new signups are going to be in trouble... they already are and have been for that matter.

[goBigtime]

If it were me and I had a solid ~/> 30 signups a day....

I would either

Plan A: I'm a king, I have my own merchant accounts!

Setup several merchant accounts, either all in one company name, or 1 merchant account per DBA. Use authorize.net, netbilling or someone else as a gateway processor and spend a small portion of the big money (~10%) saved in processing fees on a 24 hour answering service to handle 'customer support' --- easy enough to code them a low-access, no-damage admin panel.

Plan B: Please don't rob me of my rebills & reserves!

Setup 3-5 3rd party processing accounts.... try some of the 'free', no-visa-reg ones if you want to save and spread.

Then have someone code up a solution that allows you to specify the % that each processors join buttons show up when your surfers visit your CustomJoin.cgi to passively spread the load, or if you want accurate and active balancing have it create a db that keeps track of which processor has X signups.


We have a product that allows you to keep all the htpasswd files seperated at the apache level. It was created because we are strong believers in the scenarios listed above. But obviously this post is more than touting our own products so I won't mention it beyond that.

[corvette]

Originally posted by FreeNetPass Steve
I know ccbill charges a %.

I know that this thread doesn?t have our name on it, but since it was mentioned?

Steve, actually, CCBill does not charge any additional fees for sending checks out to your affiliates. There is a minimum ?default? amount that needs to be accumulated before a check is sent out, and we do pass on the various transfer costs (postage fee, wire transfer fee, FedEx fee, etc), but there should be nothing in addition to that.

[FreeNetPass Steve]

Thanks for clearing that up corvett. ;)

[SleazyDream]

Originally posted by corvett

I know that this thread doesn?t have our name on it, but since it was mentioned?

Steve, actually, CCBill does not charge any additional fees for sending checks out to your affiliates. There is a minimum ?default? amount that needs to be accumulated before a check is sent out, and we do pass on the various transfer costs (postage fee, wire transfer fee, FedEx fee, etc), but there should be nothing in addition to that.

and you wonder why people say ccbill has a corporate jet... Obviously they have their shit together.

ccbill is, was, and always will be SOLID

[Rand]

There have been some good comments on this thread about different programs.

Miranda, if you are looking for a good sponsor program to send your traffic too you should check out this resource:
http://www.epochsystems.com/sponsors/

If you can't find what you're looking for there it probably does not exist. Well, legally anyway.

[Rand]

Coming soon:

Watch for Epoch Sponsor Programs paying affiliates with epassporte.

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by goBigtime



CCbill is worry free eh? The whole 3rd party processing industry is very shaken up, and those who aren't are too new/naive to know they should be.

Then have someone code up a solution that allows you to specify the % that each processors join buttons show up when your surfers visit your CustomJoin.cgi to passively spread the load, or if you want accurate and active balancing have it create a db that keeps track of which processor has X signups.

Interesting, but I disagree on both counts.

First off the IPSPs that are compliant with both Visa and Mastercard rules have no reason to be shaken up. These are the guys talking to Martin Elliot on a near daily basis -- these are also the guys that have great relationships with their banks and have wonderful sources within that community as well. As long as they do as Visa/MC require they should have no real problems but will continue to have a heavy workload implementing new crap that comes along.

Having 3-5 processors is not a good idea, since you cannot use two different regions to acquire on the same site. If you get caught with an EU and a US on the same site you run the risk of being told by both of your processors that you are terminated.

Personally I think two credit card processors is plenty for Visa and Mastercard transactions.

Where someone should look to diversify and add to their revenue stream while minimizing their risk is with alternate sources of billing -- dialers, sms, regional credit cards like JCB, Eurodebit, etc.

As for sorting out the number of times the join page goes to a particular processor, I have no clue why you would do it by % when the most effective means of doing it would be to sort geographically and offer the surfer the most efficient means of joining a site based on where they are from, not some silly formula for this processor gets x and this one gets y.

[AmSugar]

Hi. I'm a total newbie and don't even operate a paysite; I produce and sell video tapes.

I *was* using PayPal, and then switched to ibill...about a day before reading all the rumors posted on this board.......my experiences so far seem to contradict the rumors. My sales rep, Howard Goldberg, answers the phone every time I call (ok, he was at a meeting once...but I was told ahead of time he'd be out of the office). He has taken the time to solve every little problem I've had switching from PayPal to ibill (even the ones that were my own dumb fault). I've also been able to get prompt and efficient help from other IBill reps when I have called at off hours.

Obviously, I can't predict what will happen in the future. If companies like Enron and Worldcom can go poof, then so can *any* 3rd-party billing co.

But I doubt a company on the coast of catastrophe would be able to offer such excellent customer service.

[Miranda]

I appreciate all the responses so far, thank you everyone for your input. :-)

Miranda

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by Kimmykim


Interesting, but I disagree on both counts.

First off the IPSPs that are compliant with both Visa and Mastercard rules have no reason to be shaken up.

Umm.. I dunno about you KimmyKim, but I would call having 10 seperate class action lawsuits launched against your company within a 60 day period a reason to be shaken up.

Face it, there are *problems* in the industry. It's under fire.. the heats just on "low" right now (gee I wonder why).

If you think that adult isn't going to face more regulation soon, go check your email and see whos offering the lastest beasty/underage/rape memberships for the day ... not to mention the flood of "legal" adult UCE.

Yeah, like my grandma really needs an extra 3" added to her penis.

Originally posted by Kimmykim



As for sorting out the number of times the join page goes to a particular processor, I have no clue why you would do it by % when the most effective means of doing it would be to sort geographically and offer the surfer the most efficient means of joining a site based on where they are from, not some silly formula for this processor gets x and this one gets y.

You've totallly missed the point of the message, probably because your differing viewpoint blinded you to the wholesome goodness of the post....

The idea here is irrergardless of what you say, from the clients standpoint, the 3rd party processing industry is LESS THAN STABLE, everyone knows this. Although some processors have been doing well to stay out of the headlines ;)

For instance, I would really like to hope that a certain processor will be around in 6-12 months.. but with the looming lawsuits and other issues.. do we really know for sure wtf is going to happen with them? Hell no.

If they, or anyone else for that matter were to fold... you can bet your not getting your rebill log. Not in this day. I would almost bet that it is illegal for them to give you your customers rebill data (because they aren't really your customers, unless your doing gateway processing which is what I've been ranting about all along)

So the point was, if its 'legally' possible, use multiple accounts & spread new joins (and the new rebills that would follow) over a few different processors using that sillly 'X processor gets shot at Y signup' formula.

Think of it as member:processor load balancing.

Depending on the correctness of it, maybe you would need to be careful of running both EU accounts & US accounts.. although I'm sure there would be ways to do it legitimately if you really wanted to.

[goBigtime]

But for the record, I don't know of any specific problems with CCbill... I was just that someone said CCbill was worry free... because I'm sure they are far from worry free over there in this environment (as we all are).

[chupacabra]

because I'm sure they are far from worry free over there in this environment (as we all are).

i don't know man... still have yet to have any problem at all w/ ccBill... they refunded the entire $750 VISA fee to me over the course of 3 months, haven't ever missed a check not bounced one off me. compared to some of the shit thats been happening w/ many of the processors lately, ccBill has left a really good taste in my mouth (!)..

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by corvett

I know that this thread doesn?t have our name on it, but since it was mentioned?

Steve, actually, CCBill does not charge any additional fees for sending checks out to your affiliates. There is a minimum ?default? amount that needs to be accumulated before a check is sent out, and we do pass on the various transfer costs (postage fee, wire transfer fee, FedEx fee, etc), but there should be nothing in addition to that.

Actually, as a CCBill revshare user, I'd like to take this opportunity to make a suggestion about your stats and fees. I ALWAYS have some CCBill fees taken out. After a number of interactions, it was explained to me that some of the programs I promoted passed their processing costs on to their affiliates and some did not. It would be really great to be able to tell what the various programs pay from inside the admin.

There is no way in CCBill to tell which program that promises TRUE 50/50 BLING BLING BONUSES AT A MILLION SIGNUPS is actually more like a 37% nonrecurring programming without opening a support ticket for the specific ID.

This means programs which use CCBill can pretty effortlessly shave 13% from their affiliates.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by chupacabra


i don't know man... still have yet to have any problem at all w/ ccBill... they refunded the entire $750 VISA fee to me over the course of 3 months, haven't ever missed a check not bounced one off me. compared to some of the shit thats been happening w/ many of the processors lately, ccBill has left a really good taste in my mouth (!)..

I hear ya.

We're not processing anything new anymore, but If someone held a gun to my head and said "CHOOSE!! CHOOSE!!!"... I would probably take a bullet for not being able to decide between Epoch & CCbill.

But if Ibill can survive what they are currently up against.. they will be unstoppable

I mean I want to be optimistic.. but so many things in the economy, the political environment and this industry make me think were headed for more bad things.

[chupacabra]

I mean I want to be optimistic.. but so many things in the economy, the political environment and this industry turn make me think were headed for more bad things.

well, i do think we're going to see a definite 'pruning' in the whole ISPS arena... some smaller players will probably dry up and vanish, some large players might give up on adult due to the current administration here in the states; i'm betting ccBill will still be there at the end... hell, i must be putting money on it, considering my next check arrives tomorrow..!

[NETbilling]

Hi All,

Honest programs are honest without help from a processor. Dishonest programs are the same. Don't be fooled just because the checks are cut and mailed by a processor. Anyone can shave if they want to. Send your traffic to programs that convert well for YOU, not heresay from others. There are many great sponsors out there processing and paying with different methods. As we all know, some programs and processors pass processing fees, wire fees, check cutting fees, postage etc.. to the webmasters and some do not. There is no right or wrong as long as the policies are disclosed to the webmasters.

When signing up for a program, make sure the processor behind them is as strong as the program itself.

Mitch

[ManKind]

Sounds like it's McDonalds for you...err no, McDonalds is having big problems too. Now we can't even rely on that burger flipping job

[necoeds]

CCBill doesn't convert as well....
Ibill converts almost as well as WSB, and IBILL has NEVER been more than a couple days late......
WSB may or maynot be in trouble, they paid on time for the last check........
Epoch, i need to use them yet.......

Anyways, I think that IBill is the best option right now.
Although, It's always safer to have a backup, and ccbill is definately mine......

BTW, this is all in *my* experience.....

[corvette]

Originally posted by AmeliaG


Actually, as a CCBill revshare user, I'd like to take this opportunity to make a suggestion about your stats and fees. I ALWAYS have some CCBill fees taken out. After a number of interactions, it was explained to me that some of the programs I promoted passed their processing costs on to their affiliates and some did not. It would be really great to be able to tell what the various programs pay from inside the admin.

There is no way in CCBill to tell which program that promises TRUE 50/50 BLING BLING BONUSES AT A MILLION SIGNUPS is actually more like a 37% nonrecurring programming without opening a support ticket for the specific ID.

This means programs which use CCBill can pretty effortlessly shave 13% from their affiliates.

I see your point, and will see what we can do about it. It makes sense that partners would like to know what sponsors absorb the fees and which ones don?t

Just to clarify, we have the option for program owners to split the net of the proceeds (after ccbill fees) with their partners, or split the gross sale with their partners (before ccbill fees, program owner absorbs the full fee out of their cut)

Former scenario: Partner sends a $100 sale to an account with a 50/50 referral split. CCBill fees are 14.5%, partner gets $42.75 from the sale, and webmaster gets $42.75(not including the holdback, which the webmaster absorbs)

For the latter: Partner sends a $100 sale to an account with a 50/50 referral split. CCBill fees are 14.5%, partner instantly gets $50.00 from the sale and the webmaster gets $35.50 ($50 minus $14.5, not including the 5% holdback, which the webmaster covers)

So if the net is split, then the % split would be 50/50; if the gross is split and the program owner absorbs all of the fees, then the % would be 58.5/41.5, in favor of the referrer

[NETbilling]

necoeds,

Can you ICQ me please? #117496436

Thanks, Mitch