Letter from a former "human sheild"

[CDSmith]

I'm sure it'll be too much information for some of you brainiacs,
but here's Something my buddy Ulfie showed me on the Porncity bbs.........


<b>I was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam</b>
By Daniel Pepper
(Filed: 23/03/2003)
I wanted to join the human shields in Baghdad because it was direct action
which had a chance of bringing the anti-war movement to the forefront of
world attention. It was inspiring: the human shield volunteers were making a
sacrifice for their political views - much more of a personal investment than
going to a demonstration in Washington or London. It was simple - you get on
the bus and you represent yourself.So that is exactly what I did on the
morning of Saturday, January 25. I am a 23-year-old Jewish-American
photographer living in Islington, north London. I had travelled in the Middle
East before: as a student, I went to the Palestinian West Bank during the
intifada. I also went to Afghanistan as a photographer for Newsweek.The human
shields appealed to my anti-war stance, but by the time I had left Baghdad
five weeks later my views had changed drastically. I wouldn't say that I was
exactly pro-war - no, I am ambivalent - but I have a strong desire to see
Saddam removed.We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of
the Iraqi civilians, even though we didn't actually know any. The group was
less interested in standing up for their rights than protesting against the
US and UK governments.I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in
Baghdad - a taxi driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained
that I was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war bad,
Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of incredulity.As he realised
I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken English about
the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the President
spoken of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil
money went into Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he
would kill your whole family.It scared the hell out of me. First I was
thinking that maybe it was the secret police trying to trick me but later I
got the impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I
told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am not with
the UN, I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you."Of course I had read
reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but this was the real thing.
Someone had explained it to me face to face. I told a few journalists who I
knew. They said that this sort of thing often happened - spontaneous,
emotional, and secretive outbursts imploring visitors to free them from
Saddam's tyrannical Iraq.I became increasingly concerned about the way the
Iraqi regime was restricting the movement of the shields, so a few days later
I left Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with five others. Once over the border we
felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about the regime and
the threat of an aerial bombardment."Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of
America radio?" he said. "Of course the Americans don't want to bomb
civilians. They want to bomb government and Saddam's palaces. We want America
to bomb Saddam."We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of
the others, just kept saying, "Oh my God" as the driver described the horrors
of the regime. Jake was so shocked at how naive he had been. We all were. It
hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis might actually be pro-war.The
driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war." He
seemed convinced that civilian casualties would be small; he had such
enormous faith in the American war machine to follow through on its promises.
Certainly more faith than any of us had.Perhaps the most crushing thing we
learned was that most ordinary Iraqis thought Saddam Hussein had paid us to
come to protest in Iraq. Although we explained that this was categorically
not the case, I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how
much did Saddam pay you to come?" It hit me on visceral and emotional levels:
this was a real portrayal of Iraq life. After the first conversation, I
completely rethought my view of the Iraqi situation. My understanding changed
on intellectual, emotional, psychological levels. I remembered the experience
of seeing Saddam's egomaniacal portraits everywhere for the past two weeks
and tried to place myself in the shoes of someone who had been subjected to
seeing them every day for the last 20 or so years.Last Thursday night I went
to photograph the anti-war rally in Parliament Square. Thousands of people
were shouting "No war" but without thinking about the implications for
Iraqis. Some of them were drinking, dancing to Samba music and sparring with
the police. It was as if the protesters were talking about a different
country where the ruling government is perfectly acceptable. It really upset
me.Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is
extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a
government which stops its people exercising that freedom.




First-hand, written proof from someone who was there and talked directly with Iraqis. There are more accounts from other "former human shields" too, and you'll be seeing them and hearing about them more and more I'm sure.

When is there "enough" proof for the critics and anti-US over-opinionated asswipes like Direct Fester?

[FATPad]

Oh boy. Here come all the "There are other dictators in the world, why aren't you getting them? If you don't get them all, you can't get one" people.

[theking]

CD, you know that there will never be enough proof for the US haters, never.

[iroc409]

a well-written letter. finally something that doesn't reek of such stale bullshit.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by FATPad
Oh boy. Here come all the "There are other dictators in the world, why aren't you getting them? If you don't get them all, you can't get one" people.

Yes, there is always going to be people in the world that need every point, every reason, every motive and justification explained to them slowly like babies.

And even then, they argue.

[stocktrader23]

Taxicab confessions in Iraq.

Just out of curiosity what makes you so sure this is true? Did you talk to Mr. Pepper personally or was this just posted on a message board? If you take this for truth simply because someone posted it I feel sorry for you.

[madthumbs]

I put this "FUCK BUSH" or "FUCK IRAQ" poll on madthumbs last night .. out of ~6000 votes ~1500 are fuck bush .. the rest fuck iraq .. mostly american traffic.

random factoid

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by stocktrader23
Taxicab confessions in Iraq.

Just out of curiosity what makes you so sure this is true? Did you talk to Mr. Pepper personally or was this just posted on a message board? If you take this for truth simply because someone posted it I feel sorry for you.

Trust nothing, trust no one, your mother might be a liar, your brother is probably out to get you, and your neighbor very likely secretly hates your guts.


Trust no one. Believe nothing.

[iroc409]

i can't believe this to be enitrely off, after all the US and canadian iraqis they've been interviewing.


besides, why would a treehugger post such?

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Trust nothing, trust no one, your mother might be a liar, your brother is probably out to get you, and your neighbor very likely secretly hates your guts.


Trust no one. Believe nothing.

Irony at it's best. If you have no proof STFU. I can type up a letter from a human shield that says Iraqis love Saddam and post it on the same board. Will you believe that one or pass over it because it doesn't fit your views. I just asked if you had any proof. I didn't argue with it but I'm not taking shit for face value because CDSmith found it on PornKings.

[theking]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Trust nothing, trust no one, your mother might be a liar, your brother is probably out to get you, and your neighbor very likely secretly hates your guts.


Trust no one. Believe nothing.

Reminiscent of SGT Shulzt "I trust no one and I know nothink!"

[CDSmith]

Stockticker, there is only one sourpuss asshat on this board that is a bigger fuckwit than you.

Are you not happy being the number two man?

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by iroc409
i can't believe this to be enitrely off, after all the US and canadian iraqis they've been interviewing.


besides, why would a treehugger post such?

Who said a treehugger posted it. CD could have wrote it for all we know. Not saying it is off, just don't believe everything on a porn bbs.

[Fletch XXX]

I prefer:

'Fear not, only believe'' - Stephen King

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by theking


Reminiscent of SGT Shulzt "I trust no one and I know nothink!"

Not bad .... I always enjoy reading your shit ( no disrespect here) even if I often don;t share your views....

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Stockticker, there is only one sourpuss asshat on this board that is a bigger fuckwit than you.

Are you not happy being the number two man?

I could give a rats ass what you think because I think you are a fuckwit myself. And you are at the top of my list. There are many people here that disagree with you totally but I happen to post in more threads than them and it gets under your skin. Go believe what you want.

You still didn't answer. Is PornKings your only source for this "letter from a human shield". The propaganda hungry newspapers would love to post a letter like this. Just show it to me. I still haven't argued with it either way.

[theking]

Originally posted by stocktrader23


I could give a rats ass what you think because I think you are a fuckwit myself. And you are at the top of my list. There are many people here that disagree with you totally but I happen to post in more threads than them and it gets under your skin. Go believe what you want.

You still didn't answer. Is PornKings your only source for this "letter from a human shield". The propaganda hungry newspapers would love to post a letter like this. Just show it to me. I still haven't argued with it either way.

I have seen upwards of fifty real live Iraqi's interviewed over the years, via the news media and documentarys. The all have the same tale, they hate Saddam, many of them had been tortured by Saddam and many of them bore the scars of the torture they had endured.

Jane Fonda denied that our Vietnam POW's were being tortured, and had been tortured, until just a few years ago. People believe what they choose to believe no matter how wrong they are. Some peoples insight is limited by there IQ level.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by stocktrader23


You still didn't answer. Is PornKings your only source for this "letter from a human shield".

PornCITY.

[Tuga]

Some people will do anything to make themselves believe in something.

[CDSmith]

Sticktricker --- You think you're important enough to get under my skin? You really are a fuckwit, and an egotistical one at that.


And what does "pornkings" have to do with anything?



My views are couched in the FACTS that

A) Saddam has needed to be gone for a long time.

B) I accept the fact that the US is going to do what it feels it needs to do

C) I have the sense to at least wait and see and give mr Bush the benefit of the doubt because I don't know what he knows, I am not privy to all the needed information in order to accurately second-guess the fucking president of the most powerful nation on Earth.

D) Since the war is already under way, protesting it is a moot, empty gesture. Many US Gov't and military officials even today have made it clear that this won't be over until Saddam is out. Period.

E) I can refer to point D and realize that bitching about everything isn't going to change SQUAT.




And I'm not sure where Ulfie got that article. I imagine he pulled it off the net somewhere, same as all of you armchair-monkies do with your anti-war propaganda shit. I don't know why it hasn't come to full media exposure yet, but I believe it should, and soon.



You retards bitch about how CNN needs to "verify" everything, yet here you are questioning the validity of everything too. You're a hypocrite if there ever was one.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Sticktricker --- You think you're important enough to get under my skin? You really are a fuckwit, and an egotistical one at that.


And what does "pornkings" have to do with anything?



My views are couched in the FACTS that

A) Saddam has needed to be gone for a long time.

B) I accept the fact that the US is going to do what it feels it needs to do

C) I have the sense to at least wait and see and give mr Bush the benefit of the doubt because I don't know what he knows, I am not privy to all the needed information in order to accurately second-guess the fucking president of the most powerful nation on Earth.

D) Since the war is already under way, protesting it is a moot, empty gesture. Many US Gov't and military officials even today have made it clear that this won't be over until Saddam is out. Period.

E) I can refer to point D and realize that bitching about everything isn't going to change SQUAT.




And I'm not sure where Ulfie got that article. I imagine he pulled it off the net somewhere, same as all of you armchair-monkies do with your anti-war propaganda shit. I don't know why it hasn't come to full media exposure yet, but I believe it should, and soon.



You retards bitch about how CNN needs to "verify" everything, yet here you are questioning the validity of everything too. You're a hypocrite if there ever was one.

I'm not protesting shit. I asked your source and if it was anywhere else. You know as well as I do anybody could have posted that there. Nothing more, nothing less. Read into what you want but you have no idea where I stand on this war.

[St Lunatic]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80272,00.html

story about how the human shields changed their mind about the war.

[foreverjason]

CD, you know that there will never be enough proof for the US haters, never.

Exactly.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Tuga
Some people will do anything to make themselves believe in something.

Yes, even go so far as to travel 7,000 miles to a foreign country to act as a "human shield" to protect a tyrant that deserves no less than he has given his people.

People will take to the streets and shout empty peace slogans and scoff at police officers and dammage private property, all the while deluding themselves into believing that their opinion should reign supreme.



All I know is I'll be happy when Saddam is out. Gone, whatever. Then the world can start work on the next upstart nation, maybe Korea, who knows?

I also know that if the world sits back and does nothing, we won't be enjoying peace for very long either. There's the choice.... sit on your ass and do nothing, or have multiple nations band together to take some drastic steps to ensure future peace.


If option B is "my way", then it looks as though they are doing it "my way", not "your way".


That's the "way" it is.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by St Lunatic
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80272,00.html

story about how the human shields changed their mind about the war.

Stockboy, will this at least get you to stop and think for a minute?



Didnt' think so. I did try.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Stockboy, will this at least get you to stop and think for a minute?



Didnt' think so. I did try.

I stop and think about everything. I can have different views than you and it is my right. I'm not agreeing with you just because it's the "patriotic" thing to fucking do. I'm not some hippy out on the streets protesting war. You have no clue as to my views and I don't give a shit. All I did from the first post was ask you if you had another source.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by St Lunatic
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80272,00.html

story about how the human shields changed their mind about the war.

The dozen of them left saying they were shocked to find out there were "real safety issues in the work they were hoping to do in Iraq".


Old news that is completely irrelevant to the "letter from a human shield" that was posted. Nobody said Saddam was a good person and that this didn't happen. Now where is the one that says the human shields had a complete change in heart because 2 cab drivers or anyone else told them they hate Sadaam.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by stocktrader23
I stop and think about everything. I can have different views than you and it is my right. I'm not agreeing with you just because it's the "patriotic" thing to fucking do. I'm not some hippy out on the streets protesting war. You have no clue as to my views and I don't give a shit. All I did from the first post was ask you if you had another source.

And it was provided, along with references from others too. I am quite sure there are other news sites and sources out on the net that also contain information and articles about the plight of the Iraqi people, the experiences of the "human shields" and much more. I'm sure you won't argue that there would be much to support the article I quoted, right?



And I've seen some of your posts on other threads, enough to get a basic idea of your mindset. I've tried to make my own position clear as I possibly can.... and in a nutshell I've said it repeatedly on numerous threads...... I enjoy peace as much as the next guy. I would love peace. I've often wondered why people in the world are out throwing rocks at tanks or strapping bombs to their asses and blowing up restaraunts when they should be sitting at home watching tv or reading a good book. Maybe if they did that, the fucking tanks wouldn't be necessary.

[dig420]

people in El Salvador wanted to be liberated from the Sandanistas too.

Are they gonna pay for the bombing and the payroll of the soldiers? are they gonna do any sabotage of the Iraqi army?

we're not there to liberate anyone and it's completely hypocritical that the govt. has suddenly wrapped theirselves in this humaniarian flag. It's the last thing on their mind.

[CDSmith]

I love how people claim to speak as to what is on the minds of their own leaders. Yes, I can say for certain what my Prime minister's motives are for anything he does, right. What I do know is that he better have the country's best interest at heart or else he's out.

I'm pretty sure it's the same with Bush, but I won't presume to know what his exact mindset is. That would be .... presumptuous.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by CDSmith
And it was provided, along with references from others too. I am quite sure there are other news sites and sources out on the net that also contain information and articles about the plight of the Iraqi people, the experiences of the "human shields" and much more. I'm sure you won't argue that there would be much to support the article I quoted, right?

And I've seen some of your posts on other threads, enough to get a basic idea of your mindset. I've tried to make my own position clear as I possibly can.... and in a nutshell I've said it repeatedly on numerous threads...... I enjoy peace as much as the next guy. I would love peace. I've often wondered why people in the world are out throwing rocks at tanks or strapping bombs to their asses and blowing up restaraunts when they should be sitting at home watching tv or reading a good book. Maybe if they did that, the fucking tanks wouldn't be necessary.

Yes there would be much to support the article you posted. I simply asked if you knew of any other references, never arguing with the letter. It is highly believable but who knows the real beginning of that letter. I was honestly curious if there was more documentation on it. I read both sides of the story and come up with my own opinion on things. I didn't ask to prove it didn't happen.

I'm sure you have read posts of mine in other threads but I don't know what conclusion you came to about my mindset. I have never said I was against this war, nor have I said I am for it. It's happening regardless of what anyone thinks about it. I do often mention the propaganda that bombards us every minute of the day regarding the subject and stir things up with people that are so pro-war that they don't see the full story. Our government is not telling us everything, the news isn't telling us everything, etc. I point this out on a regular basis and somehow this gets taken the wrong way. With the news contradicting themselves 10 times in an hour you would think people could see that it can't be taken at face value.

[badmunchkin]

We've had journalists up close & personal with Saddam. If this was really about just getting him out of power it would've been a helluva lot easier to assassinate him by now. Instead we've given him months of warning to become completely prepared for this & a clear 48 hour deadline to burrow down in his underground tunnels in Baghdad. No one's safer then that fucker now. No one argues he's a world class a-hole who murders his own people but he's a paper tyrant who has no power outside Iraq & was not a threat to the United States. This war is still about oil.

[CDSmith]

Apparently it (the article I posted) first turned up on Oprano

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index...man,and,shield

posted by MikeAI. I'm not yet sure where he got if from, but there are a few other good posts on that thread as well.




And stock, I don't usually draw firm conclusions on anyone.... rarely do I do that, especially over postings on message boards. One persons opinions on a certain topic might be bang on and totally couched in fact and logic, while on another topic be full of spite, bias and idiotic nonsense. I almost always, in nearly ever case, leave the door open a crack just in case some sensible sound reasoning creeps in to balance my opinion of someone. I am not such a hardass to draw set-in-stone conclusions...... yes there are one, maybe two exceptions, but you aren't one of them.

Yet.


Just the change in your tone over your last 2 posts here suggests I was right in not slamming any doors shut where you're concerned.... not that I think you give a rat's ass what my opinion is. Lord knows I would never assume that.

[stocktrader23]

Well you would be correct not to do so. I don't know how one thing led to another on this thread but my comments in others today are pretty much to do with the news doesn't show us everything, and this war is going to be harder than some people here think.

But just for reference:

Do I think we should get Saddam out of power by any means? Yes.

Do I think Saddam had WMD's or would have if he could?
Yes.

Do I think Bush approached this war the right way regarding world opinion?
No.

Do I support our troops.
100%.

I'm just tired of people saying I'm anti-war, anti-American, etc for pointing out certain things regarding this war. When someone posts some rediculous assumption I will often respond with complete bullshit to piss them off. I find it funny.

As for this thread the entire point I was trying to make is who knows about that article. Good chance it's real but I wouldn't put it past someone to make it up. That's why I asked if you had the original source. Same goes for the anti-war people. There's propaganda flying around from both directions and I guarantee you I don't believe the news either way just because they say. I take it all in and form my own opinions. I believe you do too. However, you must admit there are many here that trust CNN or their anti-war website 100% and disregard anything and everything else said on the subject.

[CDSmith]

Here's some propaganda for you.... click at your own risk, it's pretty gruesome......

http://airspot.mediaorgy.com/aljazeera/

That's how Saddam's crew treats prisoners of war.

[Libertine]

I think everyone thinks Saddam should be removed. He is a ruthless dictator that reigns over his country with the worst terror imaginable.

However, there are two major issues with the war in it's current form.

First is the fact that the US are acting without UN approval. This very obviously sets a dangerous precedent, and sends a message to the world saying that the US will do whatever they damn well please and that they do not care about what the rest of the world thinks. Not good for international stability, not good for international relations, and not good for the UN. (yes, I do in fact believe that the UN have an important role in the modern world, but if countries are able to ignore the UN without repercussions, it makes the UN obsolete. that not only includes the `good guys`, but countries like China and Russia as well)

Second is the fact that the reason for this war is not that Saddam is a ruthless dictator. Now, I would be all for forming a global alliance against ruthless dictatorships. However, this action very clearly is based on Saddam being anti-western and the US wanting a stronger position in the middle east to fight other anti-western movements. Dictators everywhere are getting the message "You can do whatever you want, we don't care about what you do to the people in your country, as long as you support us".

Yes, I think this war is essentially a good thing, but because of a side-effect, namely that a ruthless dictator is being removed from power. However, because of the big "fuck you" it sends to the rest of the world, it's only hindering (UN-based) action against the many other ruthless dictators in this world.