Get off my lawn!!! LOL

Look, the reality is ALL Americans live in a country together. The rich (and the people who dream they will be rich one day) do not want to be a part of a democratic society where compromises and consessions are the only way to function. They want to be Kings, segregated behind castle walls away from us pions (regular citizens). People who feel this way are scared and selfish little children.

no one is arguing against educating people... everyone is for it, some just have different opinion on how it should be paid for....

some believe that "others"* (aka tax payers) should pay for one's higher education, some believe that each person should pay for their own higher education...

why should I pay for someone else's education, when they will be the ones deriving benefit it from it, they will be the ones with higher income not me? makes no sense...

why should I pay for someone to study finger painting? or for someone to hang out in college for 2 years then not complete his degree? etc



* this magical "others" is the whole basis of socialism, that someone else, not you pays for stuff... everything from healthcare, to education, housing, etc etc

It appears nothing can prove anything to you. So it's needless to argue..

you either get it or not. just like you claim "socialists just don't get it".

heads up, i'm happy to be the one to break it to y'all, America is already a socialist country.

and even more socialist than the most looked to socialist country- Denmark.

The United States Is Already At Least As Socialist As Denmark



but the television tells US "socialism" is a bad word.

perhaps some of y'all mix-up big government with socialism. Bernie Sanders' social democrat vision isn't about big government.

Even if Bernie won the Powers that truly run the Gov't wouldn't let him do any of the things he wants to do. Maybe they would make it appear one way (as with Obamacare) but in the end Bernie's changes would only benefit them, not us.

Meet the New Boss, same as the Old Boss.

there have been other times Wall Street fat cats were in control of our government and we got out from under that before.

not saying Bernie's that guy, but things do change and Sanders at least is not kowtowing to big business and plans campaign finance reform. The problems start with campaign finance, we all know that. Start there with fixing the problems.

LOL and who exactly is going to administer these massive government programs then?

I remember being shocked in the early 2000's that working 100 hours a week, the later hours effectively paid less. I was like, if I worked retail, I'd be getting time and a half or double at that point.

certainly not a bloated bureaucracy, which is what we currently have.

Social Security program has what, 50,000 employees currently? if i recall. certainly not a large # of administrators required to administer the most massive social program ever in existence.

I went to a state school for graduate school and it was more like $70k a year. The costs have been rising astronomically and that is what people are fretting about.

Added to this, is its no longer low interest loans from the govt, but higher interest loans from banks.

Don't try to reason with a socialist. Anyone stupid enough to believe that shit after what has happened in the last 100 years doesn't work with facts and logic.

Over the last few years, we've had a banking crisis, illegal war, polluting of the Gulf, pollution today of a river making drinking water poisonous. Plus many more examples of big business spending billions to get the Government they want. Whatever one you vote for.

Yes, we all hate paying taxes. And take for granted someone capable is watching bankers who thin Government has enough money to bail them out, and not caring because if they don't. They will put the people into debt.

That a President has a real reason to commit the US to spend trillions on invading a country to further his and his buddies commercial interests.

Thet the inspectors of oil rigs and rivers have the power and muscle to make sure the sea or rivers aren't poisoned.

That roads are repaired, violent storm damage is fixed, that levies keeping a city safe are built properly and repaired, that kids have a decentt education and don't end up in crime, that the old who have worked all their lives aren't swept aside, and that when this happens. There are people to do their best to keep us safe. While being rewarded well for protecting us.

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/m...61c176e028.jpg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxO8fcGCcAAe9Ho.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...n_2309267b.jpg

Truth is, these guys aren't well equipped or paid. Because there aren't big bucks in it for corporate America.

And lastly. If you think mass illegal migration is something business hates. Think again. Mass migration harms everyone except the 1%. It drives down wages, raises property rental values, and puts more people onto Government subsidies than anything else. They have you by the balls, which they have no intention of letting go and some are happy about that.

If it's the sciences, it adds value to the economy. Like doctors, computer sciences, engineers, sciences etc. The Arts don't need to be subsidised. Nor Lawyers.

The conditions should be the people pass entry exams, keep high grades and not have parents who can afford to pay. This inspires those from a less privileged background to do better. Which is better than reserving the best jobs for the 1%.

Hillary Clinton Proposes Debt-Free Tuition at Public Colleges - WSJ


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You need a better accountant

Bernie did not solve the problem of capitalism 80/20, and the growth of poverty and unemployment, combined with overcapacity.

Wait like those guys who claim trickle down economics works? Better yet should we still believe the horse shit of abseidence is the only good way to handle birth control for kids? Yeah that seems to work great in Texas...

What about the nonsense of lower taxes equal more jobs... Umm can you show me when that ever happened?

Newsflash none of your bullshit hardcore beliefs work either..

As usual you right Winnie's can't understand the concept of little bits of socialism or conseritism mixed work well together. Instead you hear free health care or free education and instantly think it's fucking Karl Marx reborn.. I'm pretty sure there are rocks that are smarter than some of you..

I can't believe this is real.
At first I started to laugh but then I started to cry realizing it is this bad.

reading this thread i thank god obamacare was created to kill off well off white males.

Wow. Those are awesome skills! I can't tell that video apart from the debate below.

This may teach you something about socialism.
It's a cartoon from 60 years ago so the dems can probably understand it.

Can someone explain to me why making money with money should be taxed less then making money with actual labor. I've been making money with money most of my life and can't seem to understand how profit is different then profit

Also lots of clueless people on how real estate works in this thread. 1031 exchange and cash out refi. If you do flips then who cares that's just short term money so just cost of doing biz

"President Franklin Delano Roosevelt acted against the ferocious opposition of the ruling class of his day, people he called economic royalists, Roosevelt implemented a series of programs that put millions of people back to work, took them out of poverty and restored their faith in government. He redefined the relationship of the federal government to the people of our country. He combatted cynicism, fear and despair. He reinvigorated democracy. He transformed the country.

And that is what we have to do today.

And, by the way, almost everything he proposed was called â??socialist.â?� Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country was â??socialist.â?� The concept of the â??minimum wageâ?� was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as â??socialist.â?� Unemployment insurance, abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as â??socialist.â?� Yet, these programs have become the fabric of our nation and the foundation of the middle class.

Thirty years later, in the 1960s, President Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid to provide health care to millions of senior citizens and families with children, persons with disabilities and some of the most vulnerable people in this county. Once again these vitally important programs were derided by the right wing as socialist programs that were a threat to our American way of life."

Senator Bernie Sanders on Democratic Socialism in the United States - Bernie Sanders

â??The most hated sort, and with the greatest reason, is usury, which makes a gain out of money itself, and not from the natural object of it. For money was intended to be used in exchange, but not to increase at interest. And this term interest, which means the birth of money from money, is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles the parent. Wherefore of an modes of getting wealth this is the most unnatural.â?�

Aristotle, Politics, Book One, Part X,

one reason can be illustrated by following hypothetical example:

- you buy a $100k house (at a time when a "car" costs $20k, so you can buy 5 "cars")
- inflation rate is 10%/year
- so 10 years later you sell that house for $200k
- naive person would think you made $100k "profit", but really that $100k is "phantom profit"
- you get taxed 50%+ like Sanders proposed on that 100k "phantom profit" and so you end up with $150k
- you try to spend that $150k on other goods and notice that your buying power is far less than what you had 10 years earlier... ("cars" went up 200% too, so they now cost $40k, you want to buy cars now, but can't even buy 4 of them when 10 years earlier you could have bought 5 with your capital)

so when all is done, you had your capital frozen for 10 years and end up with negative real rate of return on top of that... :helpme

there are indeed some tricks to minimize the damage... but 1031 has many limitations, cash out refi is great if interest rates are low, when they are high it doesn't work that great anymore...

Ок you convinced me.

You're in russia.

I'm not here to convince you. I'm actually not here to convince anyone.

That quote shows that the negative label of socialism doesn't apply to Bernie Sanders any more than it applies to the good ole USA.

Well, I'm more interested in the process of implementation of socialism in a capitalist society.
I was not trying to denigrate Bernie. I just have too biased toward socialism.

I do agree that both Social Security and Medicare have become socialism.

Was/Is Social Security supposed to be socialism? Not the way it's written. It's supposed to be the govt. saving MY money and giving it back to me when I retire.

It has BECOME a socialist program because it was instantly used to pay for people over age 65 who had never been a part of it. So for the first few decades...the govt. handed over working people's money to retirees who had never paid a dime into the system.

And now we have todays workers paying for yesterdays workers retirements instead of the way it was supposed to be.

Typical govt. stupidity.

That's why Social Security is always on the brink of bankruptcy.
Bureaucrats already have "solved" the problem they created themselves by proposing to raise the Social Security tax limit. That will remove any aura of legitimacy of Social Security as it was originally intended and turn it into an outright welfare program for older people.
Socialism.

The only reason that socialism has survived in Europe is because the United States federal govt. is full of power hungry bureaucrats who want to be the "policeman of the world" with a huge overbloated military.

If the countries in Europe no longer could count on the U.S. to protect them militarily...and had to spend their own money on their own military...it would be a different story.

And even with the U.S. doing that (and fucking our citizens out of our money to do so), European countries are still on the verge of defaulting on loans because they simply can't afford to pay for so many people on the dole.

Want to see what socialism will do to a country? Just look at Europe for your answers. If you like what you see...then I would say that you are socialist and should be proud of it.
If you don't...then you are a capitalist...like me. And I'm proud to be one.

Most everyone does. I do too. I'm not a socialist. Bernie Sanders is not a socialist.

I'm glad you used Social Security as an example of Socialist policy.

Social Security was doomed to fail from the get-go, but it worked at the time because the baby boomers saved our asses. There were more people paying into the system than collecting benefits. But now that the boomers are at the age where they're the ones collecting benefits, it's no longer sustainable. It used to be 100 paying into SS, and one person being paid benefits. Now it's 1 person paying, and 10,000 people collecting. It can't work. Just like Democratic Socialism (or any type of Socialism), it may "fix" things for a short while, but it's not sustainable and will eventually come crashing down.

Socialism is a quick fix that may look good to a select group, but as a political or financial system, it is proven not to work. Eventually the guy breaking his back making good money will realize he can have the same standard of living as the guy sitting at home doing jack shit. The next thing you know, a huge majority will be at home doing jack shit, and a minority will be responsible for the majority. Like Social Security, a Socialist-based program, it's unsustainable.

Lame spin attempt. My point in posting the quote was clear, to show that historically this country has embraced social programs and in a big way. Some have worked, some haven't, and that has absolutely zero to do with the fact I pointed out.

Medicare for everyone.

No spin job. You posted a quote by Bernie Sanders regarding how previous presidents successfully ushered in socialist policies. And I pointed out how those socialist policies are now failing. I generally agree with you on almost everything you post in regards to politics, but I just can't see eye-to-eye with you on this one.

The reasons for the social security issues are vast and complex, including such things as life expectancy and minimum wage and plenty in between. The program has faced bigger issues before and emerged from them.

Either way, I'm not here to sell Bernie Sanders.

But the only thing you've done is point out that social security could be facing a funding issue.

That's certainly not an argument against Bernie Sanders or the fact that this country has embraced many social programs small and large for a very long time. It's not even really a solid argument at all against social programs in the USA.



Vote for whomever you want, I am. I'm not here to sway voters. I went otr stating bernies my guy. I like Bernie, you do not. cool.

There is nothing "complex" about the SS issues... the issue is pretty damn simple, it was passed as a program that people pay into, then get their $$ back in retirement...

... but then some brilliant socialist(s) came along, said "we have all this $$ in the SS fund, lets start paying it out"... in effect stealing the $$ from the fund that was supposed to to go for retirees that paid into it few decades later...

... that $$ is now long gone like a fart in the wind, so now more brilliant socialists are proposing to "fix" it by raising SS taxes and/or income limits... and then on top of that they try to muddy the water by calling the SS issue "complex", when it was simply theft by their socialist buddies that occurred few decades earlier that is the root of all the SS problems... :helpme

screw you crickett, I'm voting demo this year, not that facts matter to a socialist. Here it is, answer me what you say to the families of the millions of people that were tortured and killed for socialism?