I Want To Advertise - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

The Porn Nerd · 12-12-2015, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nm_

Yes amaking's most popular site is definitely not making any money. You're still just looking at this at face value

Anyone can copy a banner page and lander... With this mindset you could just go to popular tube A, copy all the campaigns, and be making money in no time!!!!!

So besides the initial join, what is watchmygf marketing to new joins? My guess is in addition to their own sites, theyre cross promoting / upselling other amateur offers aggressively via email to earn more per user. I bet if you cancel theyll run your email into the ground with other deals/upsells too.

At this point they have enough data to calculate earnings per click, most likely by geo/niche/site/zone/ad type. With this info, it becomes a little easier to calculate potential roi when buying from diff sites.

My advice to you would be, look at which traffic sources send you the most joins and from where (banner clicks, text links, etc). Try to buy traffic matching those conditions (same geos/ad type/niche) as a test. Make sure you segment and track everything, so you can calculate your epc for each source/zone/ad. After you have this data from testing, you'll be able to weed out sources that aren't converting.

TheSquealer really already nailed it on the head. There's a reason you only really see a handful of offers being promoted heavily via media buys. Its typically only the type of shit where the users card gets banged w/ enough cross sales to cover the extra overhead of buying traffic

Thanks for the insights! And I totally agree with your last points. It's these conditions which are turning me off the idea. LOL

TheSquealer's point are well-taken. Combined with your advice - focus on tubes that send me the most traffic, etc - and I think a (limited) test is still worth it. Especially if I can coordinate the ad buys with the videos we submit to tubes acting in conjunction. We will see.

But I am learning, from your comments, TheSquealer's and others here, that ad buys for paysites may not be a smart move. LOL

$money$ · 12-12-2015, 12:14 PM

52 advertisements

TheSquealer · 12-12-2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Let me give a specific example here instead of talking in generalities. I just found this ad below on Pornhub, next to a video (NTV A, top right) but I've also seen this same ad on YouJizz, XHamster and many other tubes:

So graphically (the ad) it's not hard to recreate. The landing page is very similar to the ones I use now and can be altered to look more like this one. So I do not see any special "optimization" for this landing page or join page, nor do I see cross-sells, etc.

Now the one thing I DO wonder is who owns this site. I am assuming it is one of the larger companies so in that case, maybe this site isn't "profitable" at all, but rather simply a marketing campaign to drive type-ins, SEO, affiliate interest, etc. Maybe the Goal for this site is not "profit" from the actual clicks on the ad. If that's the case then we can forget all about this idea. LOL

You'll find the hard way that copying an ad and landing page and ad placement won't work.

Here's a general rule i use.

"if the solution seems so obvious... then obviously everyone has tried it. If everyone isn't doing it, then it must be a poor solution"

That's everyone in media buying's first thought. "all i gotta do is just copy what others are doing - same ad, same landing page, same offer and bid the same and i'll be golden". Think about that for a moment.... if it worked, Everyone would be making millions with media buys. Copying campaigns, ads and landing pages almost NEVER works. It's not about the few obvious things you see... its the 100 things you don't that matter. There is nothing similar between that ad/landing page than anything you have. Trust me. It's not just "an ad" or "a landing page". It's the quasi-CP images they use, it's each individual model, the cropping of the pic and their titilating natures, Its every color, every bit of text, placement of text, what the text says, the color of the text, its every single image, the quality of every single image (surely all tested in TGPs for click through rates and then tested on the site for proper placement and proper order), its the join page, its the cc processor, its the light page code, its the load time of the pages, its fast servers, its CDNs (each additional 100ms of load time causes sales/conversions to plummet accordingly) and its 100 other things that aren't readily visible or obvious. It's about doing 100 things really really well. Not copying 3 things and hoping for the best ;)

For you to do this successfully in my opinion with a paysite, you'll need to completely change your sites, your billing and your business practices.

WHAT NO ONE SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND

Penis pills, dating and pua offers don't sell well because "porn is dead".

PUA, Pills and Dating will ALWAYS outsell adult sites. They sell well because its a simple question of human motivation. People are more motivated by the prospect of a bigger penis to attract a mate, people are motivated by understanding how to pick of women easily and regularly for sex and people are motivated by the prospect of possibly meeting someone right now, tonight for sex. "Join pay site and masturbate alone" is much lower on that list of primal priorities. You can't change that. You can only start to move it up the list with "free", a simplified join process (for example, email access for some limited content with a wall of upsells etc - something which better caters to lower quality traffic and greater volume).

This is the challenge... you won't easily come close to, much less outsell PUA (upsells to 500.00 - 1000.00+ packages), Dating (upsells cams, PUA, other dating/cross sells etc), Pills (endless recurring revenue for a worthless product that cost 4.00 per bottle and which is marked up 1000% or more)... and their earnings per average user is obviously quite high. They have much higher conversion rates and a similar value per user. You'll be spending .05/click for example and converting at 1:250 - 1:500 and a dating site will be spending .05/click and converting at 1:20. Thats what you have to compete with.

There is no QUALITY traffic to be bought if you can't pay what others are paying for it. To pay what they are paying for it, you have to be able to earn what they earn from it. It's not about "advertising" at all. It's about the science of conversions, its about what each program is earning per join.

You might then think "ok, well i'll go niche" or "i'll start small and go after German traffic first" or something smaller. Again, that will be you and the same crowd of usual suspects in those niches and countries driving prices up with high converting sites and products well targeted to those markets, with CDN's in those countries (pages are loading locally), local billing options etc etc etc etc etc. Every possible thing will be optimized and dialed in with some of those guys and they are trying to buy every single click available and can afford to pay a lot for that traffic.

Unfortuneately, this won't happen. Unless you stop right now and accept that you are only seeing about 1% of the equation and will have to not only focus 100% on this but spend many 10s of thousands to figure out a model and dial it in, you'll only be in for a serious disappointment and a huge financial loss. I wish you luck. I do. But this is like watching someone walk out the door with a .22 caliber pistol to hunt a bear with the logic "i know people hunt with guns, a .22 is a gun, therefore, i'm going to go hunt a bear".

Your advantage is that you own a lot of content and sites. That gives you freedom to play with subscription models ...say total access for an email join giving you maybe 1:5 conversions, instead of 1:1000 - then upsell other pay sites, cams, dating, pua, pills or whatever to a wide audience of semi-qualified members, and then mail the shit out of them as you go. I'd definitely look at setting up different models to test and start looking at all the many ways you can use the content you have to generate revenue.

The Porn Nerd · 12-12-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

You'll find the hard way that copying an ad and landing page and ad placement won't work.

Here's a general rule i use.

"if the solution seems so obvious... then obviously everyone has tried it. If everyone isn't doing it, then it must be a poor solution"

That's everyone in media buying's first thought. "all i gotta do is just copy what others are doing - same ad, same landing page, same offer and bid the same and i'll be golden". Think about that for a moment.... if it worked, Everyone would be making millions with media buys. Copying campaigns, ads and landing pages almost NEVER works. It's not about the few obvious things you see... its the 100 things you don't that matter. There is nothing similar between that ad/landing page than anything you have. Trust me. It's not just "an ad" or "a landing page". It's the quasi-CP images they use, it's each individual model, the cropping of the pic and their titilating natures, Its every color, every bit of text, placement of text, what the text says, the color of the text, its every single image, the quality of every single image (surely all tested in TGPs for click through rates and then tested on the site for proper placement and proper order), its the join page, its the cc processor, its the light page code, its the load time of the pages, its fast servers, its CDNs (each additional 100ms of load time causes sales/conversions to plummet accordingly) and its 100 other things that aren't readily visible or obvious. It's about doing 100 things really really well. Not copying 3 things and hoping for the best ;)

For you to do this successfully in my opinion with a paysite, you'll need to completely change your sites, your billing and your business practices.

WHAT NO ONE SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND

Penis pills, dating and pua offers don't sell well because "porn is dead".

PUA, Pills and Dating will ALWAYS outsell adult sites. They sell well because its a simple question of human motivation. People are more motivated by the prospect of a bigger penis to attract a mate, people are motivated by understanding how to pick of women easily and regularly for sex and people are motivated by the prospect of possibly meeting someone right now, tonight for sex. "Join pay site and masturbate alone" is much lower on that list of primal priorities. You can't change that. You can only start to move it up the list with "free", a simplified join process (for example, email access for some limited content with a wall of upsells etc - something which better caters to lower quality traffic and greater volume).

This is the challenge... you won't easily come close to, much less outsell PUA (upsells to 500.00 - 1000.00+ packages), Dating (upsells cams, PUA, other dating/cross sells etc), Pills (endless recurring revenue for a worthless product that cost 4.00 per bottle and which is marked up 1000% or more)... and their earnings per average user is obviously quite high. They have much higher conversion rates and a similar value per user. You'll be spending .05/click for example and converting at 1:250 - 1:500 and a dating site will be spending .05/click and converting at 1:20. Thats what you have to compete with.

There is no QUALITY traffic to be bought if you can't pay what others are paying for it. To pay what they are paying for it, you have to be able to earn what they earn from it. It's not about "advertising" at all. It's about the science of conversions, its about what each program is earning per join.

You might then think "ok, well i'll go niche" or "i'll start small and go after German traffic first" or something smaller. Again, that will be you and the same crowd of usual suspects in those niches and countries driving prices up with high converting sites and products well targeted to those markets, with CDN's in those countries (pages are loading locally), local billing options etc etc etc etc etc. Every possible thing will be optimized and dialed in with some of those guys and they are trying to buy every single click available and can afford to pay a lot for that traffic.

Unfortuneately, this won't happen. Unless you stop right now and accept that you are only seeing about 1% of the equation and will have to not only focus 100% on this but spend many 10s of thousands to figure out a model and dial it in, you'll only be in for a serious disappointment and a huge financial loss. I wish you luck. I do. But this is like watching someone walk out the door with a .22 caliber pistol to hunt a bear with the logic "i know people hunt with guns, a .22 is a gun, therefore, i'm going to go hunt a bear".

Your advantage is that you own a lot of content and sites. That gives you freedom to play with subscription models ...say total access for an email join giving you maybe 1:5 conversions, instead of 1:1000 - then upsell other pay sites, cams, dating, pua, pills or whatever to a wide audience of semi-qualified members, and then mail the shit out of them as you go. I'd definitely look at setting up different models to test and start looking at all the many ways you can use the content you have to generate revenue.

OKay first we need to collect your writings into an ebook.

As always, thank you for taking the time to write all that out for me and all of us. Please know it's greatly appreciated.

I posted that example exactly so someone (you it turns out, and thank goodness) would pick it apart and reveal some of the thinking behind the scenes. Some of what you outlined I did manage to figure out but certainly not all. With media buys it's becoming quite clear, at least to me, that those companies with mega resources will always win in this game. There seems to be a way to become profitable, even if you are a 'small' guy, but as you say it would take total focus and many thousands to come close to achieving anything like that.

The overall effect (fallout?) of all this on small paysite owners like myself who are looking to expand is that the few paysites that are doing media buys are 'setting the tone' for much of people's ideas of what paysites really are. Of course this is one of the Goals of these companies (gobbling up market share) but it does make strategizing all that more difficult.

In other words, if you can't throw money at a business then how exactly DO you scale? I guess this is the dilemma some of us face.

TheSquealer · 12-12-2015, 02:02 PM

give me a call. i'll share some stories and ideas. ;)

The Porn Nerd · 12-12-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

give me a call. i'll share some stories and ideas. ;)

Will do.

The Porn Nerd · 12-14-2015, 09:50 AM

Monday bump because I want people to read the latest great post on this subject from TheSquealer.

Spot on (as usual).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

You'll find the hard way that copying an ad and landing page and ad placement won't work.

Here's a general rule i use.

"if the solution seems so obvious... then obviously everyone has tried it. If everyone isn't doing it, then it must be a poor solution"

That's everyone in media buying's first thought. "all i gotta do is just copy what others are doing - same ad, same landing page, same offer and bid the same and i'll be golden". Think about that for a moment.... if it worked, Everyone would be making millions with media buys. Copying campaigns, ads and landing pages almost NEVER works. It's not about the few obvious things you see... its the 100 things you don't that matter. There is nothing similar between that ad/landing page than anything you have. Trust me. It's not just "an ad" or "a landing page". It's the quasi-CP images they use, it's each individual model, the cropping of the pic and their titilating natures, Its every color, every bit of text, placement of text, what the text says, the color of the text, its every single image, the quality of every single image (surely all tested in TGPs for click through rates and then tested on the site for proper placement and proper order), its the join page, its the cc processor, its the light page code, its the load time of the pages, its fast servers, its CDNs (each additional 100ms of load time causes sales/conversions to plummet accordingly) and its 100 other things that aren't readily visible or obvious. It's about doing 100 things really really well. Not copying 3 things and hoping for the best ;)

For you to do this successfully in my opinion with a paysite, you'll need to completely change your sites, your billing and your business practices.

WHAT NO ONE SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND

Penis pills, dating and pua offers don't sell well because "porn is dead".

PUA, Pills and Dating will ALWAYS outsell adult sites. They sell well because its a simple question of human motivation. People are more motivated by the prospect of a bigger penis to attract a mate, people are motivated by understanding how to pick of women easily and regularly for sex and people are motivated by the prospect of possibly meeting someone right now, tonight for sex. "Join pay site and masturbate alone" is much lower on that list of primal priorities. You can't change that. You can only start to move it up the list with "free", a simplified join process (for example, email access for some limited content with a wall of upsells etc - something which better caters to lower quality traffic and greater volume).

This is the challenge... you won't easily come close to, much less outsell PUA (upsells to 500.00 - 1000.00+ packages), Dating (upsells cams, PUA, other dating/cross sells etc), Pills (endless recurring revenue for a worthless product that cost 4.00 per bottle and which is marked up 1000% or more)... and their earnings per average user is obviously quite high. They have much higher conversion rates and a similar value per user. You'll be spending .05/click for example and converting at 1:250 - 1:500 and a dating site will be spending .05/click and converting at 1:20. Thats what you have to compete with.

There is no QUALITY traffic to be bought if you can't pay what others are paying for it. To pay what they are paying for it, you have to be able to earn what they earn from it. It's not about "advertising" at all. It's about the science of conversions, its about what each program is earning per join.

You might then think "ok, well i'll go niche" or "i'll start small and go after German traffic first" or something smaller. Again, that will be you and the same crowd of usual suspects in those niches and countries driving prices up with high converting sites and products well targeted to those markets, with CDN's in those countries (pages are loading locally), local billing options etc etc etc etc etc. Every possible thing will be optimized and dialed in with some of those guys and they are trying to buy every single click available and can afford to pay a lot for that traffic.

Unfortuneately, this won't happen. Unless you stop right now and accept that you are only seeing about 1% of the equation and will have to not only focus 100% on this but spend many 10s of thousands to figure out a model and dial it in, you'll only be in for a serious disappointment and a huge financial loss. I wish you luck. I do. But this is like watching someone walk out the door with a .22 caliber pistol to hunt a bear with the logic "i know people hunt with guns, a .22 is a gun, therefore, i'm going to go hunt a bear".

Your advantage is that you own a lot of content and sites. That gives you freedom to play with subscription models ...say total access for an email join giving you maybe 1:5 conversions, instead of 1:1000 - then upsell other pay sites, cams, dating, pua, pills or whatever to a wide audience of semi-qualified members, and then mail the shit out of them as you go. I'd definitely look at setting up different models to test and start looking at all the many ways you can use the content you have to generate revenue.

Just_Dave · 12-14-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Monday bump because I want people to read the latest great post on this subject from TheSquealer.

Spot on (as usual).

Total agree with you. This was spot on.

12-12-2015, 02:02 PM	#55
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,113	give me a call. i'll share some stories and ideas. ;) __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

12-12-2015, 12:14 PM	#52
$money$ So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 1,416	52 advertisements