Absolutely he gained the freedom of 800m people without the use of arms.

I read that an anti-war protester fell off the golden gate bridge and died yesterday.

I don't believe that Ghandi's words were intended to apply to those fighting on the side of rights and freedoms. If they were, then they could be twisted to say that anyone who raised a hand against Hitler was commiting a crime against humanity.


Ghandi's words certainly apply to the murderous oppression that Saddam has wreaked on his people and the world though. Did Ghandi speak up for the side of peace? Absolutely, no question, but was he a big fan of standing by and doing nothing while others are raped, murdered and slaughtered? I have trouble believing any sane man would think like that.

After decades and decades and at which time the country was split into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan and violence insued. No way is perfect.

Ooops,

Some more bombs !!

It is the law of love that rules mankind. Had violence, i.e. hate, ruled us we should have become extinct long ago. And yet, the tragedy of it is that the so-called civilized men and nations conduct themselves as if the basis of society was violence.

Gandhi was once asked what he thought about western civilization. His response was: "I think it would be a good idea."

You should go tell Saddam that.

maybe we can send him some flowers.. how about Calla Lily. I have a few blooming in my pond right now.

i tried, but my email to him just bounced back

You obviously know nothing of mans 'id' and instincts.

If Ghandi would have read or knew anything about Psychology his points may have validity, otherwise, its hippie crap.

And hippie crap dont keep our lands safe.

Again, go sit and protest, im sure itll all go away.

anyone else enjoying the high correlation to bombs dropped and a huge spike in the Dow and S&P 500?

or am i the only one with some money recently placed (Feb 25th) in the in the S&P 500 index? :1orglaugh

i'm pretty sure my active role as an educator (for our children), environmentalist (for our world), fundraiser (for our diseases) and provider of shelter and assistance (for our homeless) furnishes plenty of support to keep our lands and communities safe

but then again, all i do is just sit and protest and hope it'll all go away

my question is, what do you do about it?

thats it... I'm giving away everything and going to live in the forest and worship trees.

I dont need to brag about what I am involved in to prove my point. You might, I dont. What I do I do for personal reasons, you do what looks good to you on paper.

Your basic way of life goes agains Ghandi, im sure he would be way pro-internet porn. The internet you surf right now was designed for what again?

Nothing you do has a damn thing to do with whats going on, go sit and protest, talk shit about whats going on, it doesnt change it, and no matter how much you stomp your feet, you cant change it.

I dont like seeing people die either but for you to sit there and say you wouldnt kill a man who was raping your mom is fucking retarded.

Thats the base for my stance, you said 'for no reason' should man injure another.

hahaha yeah ok, that fixes it.

Sit home in your nice car and talk shit about it, hold your stance for freedom but dont help others gain that freedom.

That is why your way sucks. You wont fight for other people whereas the basic instinct of man is to protect other men, THAt is what is happening here, youre just too much of a pussy to want to fight for freedom.

sit back and let those whowill do so.

again you do what looks good to you on paper, we do what we must.

in Canada you can take a vow of perpetual poverty and have zero income taxes to pay... something to think about as tax season looms :1orglaugh

I read an article a few months back that stated more children die each month over there due to lack of support for humanity from the government, than deaths in the Persian Gulf War.

just wondering how the WE in "we do what we must" includes you?

Iraq can't hold a candle to Serbia. Serbia is part of Europe and the core zone. Iraq is stuck in the 7th century and in the gap zone. This and future U.S. wars are about controlling gap nations along the seam nations like Iran, South Africa, Phillipines to prevent their ripping into the core nations.

Looks like the planes needed to get back to the carriers. All clear for now.

I don't know, call me nuts but if I was a taxpaying U.S. citizen who exercises my right to vote, I too would feel comfortable saying "We" in reference to my nation. I certainly do when I've spoken about Canada in past topics, in a descriptive context..... not to claim that I alone speak for my country that is.

so are you saying that Fletch's contribution to society is voting?

WOW!

.

My contribution to society is staging peace riots in order to make a statement. I prevent people from driving to school, going to work, and making apartments. Believe me, it makes quite the statement and they never forget it.

Peace! Peace! Peace!

.. come on.. I need a DVD player for my office ;)

Strange area where I live.. in Portland OR there have been over 130 people arrested during their war protests. We have protests going in Seattle also...... but at the same time, you drive along the Interstate near the Ft Lewis, or McChord AFB, or Naval Base Everett and there are people out in droves showing their support of the troops from those bases.

Youre the guy who helps poor people on Thanksgiving only, then boasts about it at work.

You forget theres 364 days to help.

Add it to your resume, 'handed out can goods at Thanksgiving'

I have no need to discuss any charity I may be part of or cummunity things I am involved in, which I am, which range from fundraisers for the blind and deaf to assisting in keeping underage prostitution from going on in Hollywood.

I do my part, but have no reason to brag about it.

Lets not compare cocks, instead, prove to me (in words) how a peaceful approach to Saddam would be more beneficial, to both the ecomony and mankind.

I'm saying that it is the taxpaying citizens of a country that foot the bill for their country to go to war, and it is the voters of that country who put their government in power or had a say in it at any rate. Therefore, such citizens certainly do have the right to say "We" when describing the actions of their country, at least in the descriptive sense.




BTW --
I too laugh when someone goes off on a rant saying "We think" this and "We hate" that, jabbering as if he/she speaks for their entire nation. Shows the egotism that is rampant among certain people who had no say whatsoever in the location of their birth. It was luck-of-the-draw, so what's with all this "We're better than you" shit?

166 countries think it is a better idea.
35 don't

actually i worked every Thursday night from 11pm until 7am for two years - helping people find shelter from the streets and assisting those in need of detox or medical assistance

and it has never appeared on my resume or anywhere else until today

but thanks for speculating

it was hardly bragging

you were the one who ASSUMED that i did nothing but sit idly without contributing to society

why bother?

it would be purely speculative at this point

but if you want to write a 1200 word essay on how a violent approach to Saddam would be more beneficial, to both the economy and mankind, go for it

since that's what we'll all be reading about in the years to come

CNN has been talking to Naval personnel on the USS Constellation. They just got done talking to a guy from a EA-6B Prowler, the Navy's radar jammers. They are all stationed up here in Washington State at NAS Whidbey. Bet that'll make the local news.

I have family involved in this, and as long as that is the case, I feel a sense of contribution and sacrifice since it will be my loss that is calculated and felt while Rocky watches CNN and talks about 'peace.'

I sit here right now watching this shit going down on TV thinking about my cousin, listening to the crackling bombs and thundering missiles wondering what hes up to, hes barely old enough to drink and hes out there fighting for someone elses freedom. WHy? Because thats what he was asked to do by our country.

While Rocky is posting about all the 'things he does' that makes him right and such a valuable peaceful asset to society, my cousin alongisde many brave and irreplaceable young men and women are out there fighting, maybe scared, maybe even breathing their last breath.

i sacrifice as many others do. Rocky can say what he wants, it doesnt matter, his words are BBS jibber jabber, the real sacrifice is out there.

Take a look outside. Taste that freedom?

Someone died for it.

AMEN!

Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.

President Teddy Roosevelt

:thumbsup :drinkup

Ant,

166 countries thought it was still not the time.
Only 35 didn't.

I believe we gave that despot enough time to meet the deadlines.

He did not.

His choice.

don't turn this shit around on me Fletch

i'm just as concerned about the safety of the people fighting in this war

you do not have exclusivity to family and friends fighting in this or any other war

my response to you from the onset has been that providing assistance to people in our communities is JUST as valid and helpful to the safety and prosperity of our lands

like i said about 50 posts ago... it's now 45 countries that are on side now

i'm working on it PK
:winkwink:

"""I believe we gave that despot enough time to meet the deadlines.

He did not.

His choice"""



This raid was not sanctioned by the UN.The UN wished to explore other avenues.

It is in the belief of many nations that this action is in breach of international law.

Especially as WMD have not been deployed or found

So what if China says ...get the hell out of Iran or they'll take action?

World War 3........

It is possible Bush may just be acting on a delayed Yea paranoia ;)

Its early yet! ;)

I believe there have been reports of Scuds fired. Isn't that breach?

Time will tell.

Delayed Je paranoia. Something I don't miss. The ride up to right before there was fun though.

Im not.

You said for no reason should man attack or injure another man.

I disagreed.

Then you brought up the 'What is the we' thing and try to bring up charity work as a means to prove your point about man needing to be peaceful instead of initiating an attack against another.

I would hope so, but you never know. Its just that their very existence goes against all you supposedly stand for, they are men who are trained for and exist for war, they are here to protect and in most means fight, kill, and battle to influence, not by chaining themselves to bike racks and flipping cars.

Everything they do goes against your philosophy of life.

Didnt say I did, simply brought it up since I was thinking about it in regards to CD Smiths post, sacrifice, and your need to bring up the 'What have you done for your country' jibber jabber.

No, your stance from the onset has been that under no circumstance should man injure another man, in fact, its a crime against humanity.

That was what I quoted from you that started this. ;)

My response to YOU since the onset has been that that is a ridiculous approach in such a world.

You seem to be the one 'turning shit around' as it was never about who does more charity work, you brought up the 'we' thing, and started bragging about how many hours you put in at the charity and how many nights a week you wore the Good Guy Badge.

My stance from the beginning is, the basic instinct for any animal, human or not, is to be free. Birds and horses and men.

And man no matter the chain or restraint, will fight for his freedom, or someone elses untill death.

You said it was a crime for man to fight for his own freedom, I said it was not.

You seem to think a peaceful approach to a man like Saddam or Hitler is the way to go? I dont even see how this is brought up since Hitler or Saddam would simply have you killed under his regime and your peaceful existence would be swept under the rug along with the other lives and souls he has devoured.

Im sure the republican gaurd would just arrest and detain a group of 10k of Iraq people who demand better living?

What would Saddam do if the hippies did what they do in San Fransisco in Iraq? be some dead motherfuckers, thats what he would do.

But hey, whatever works yo.

Sometimes its much deeper than college boy dreams of campus protests and 60's university gatherings. The hippy dream never dies.

This is the real world, and sometimes we fight.

It seems mostly over Freedom, this time, the Iraqi peoples freedom.

Just dont spit on them when they get back okay.

Amen to that.

:)

the quote was from Ghandi

so if you have a beef with HIS stance, then i suggest you have him exhumed and bitch slap HIM around

Quote or not, it was your stance on the matter. And I disagreed, no biggie.

I simply disagreed then you initiated the Good Guy Badge contest.

I have no beef with Ghandi or you for that matter.

I just dont think flipping over cars and chaining yourserlf to bike racks is the way to go.

:winkwink:

bizowl
:stoned

The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one.

What luck for rulers that men do not think.

Adolf Hitler





















what?!

PK said she wanted a DVD player and who am i to deny her?

It kinda reads that way doesn't it?