yeah, because the initial news media is always so accurate. Just admit; you are not going to believe anything that might point towards the cop's actions being justifiable.

...............

is Robbie a fake nic for brassmonkey???

No, I don't think the news media is very accurate. But it's all I have to go on and it's all YOU have to go on as well.

So now you've made two "astounding" assumptions right there.

You are assuming that the news reports so far are wrong.
And you're assuming that the cop is justified in shooting a guy 6 times until he is dead.

Why don't you "just admit" you're not going to believe anything that might point to the cops actions being UN-justified.

I guess it's just okay for a cop to get into a fight and shoot a guy 6 times and twice in the head.

But I wouldn't suggest that YOU try that if you get into a fight.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and make the "astounding" assumption that your ass will go to jail and to trial for murder in that situation.

No. I just think that if a cop shoots somebody they should go to trial for it just like you and I would.

If they are innocent, then let a jury decide it. Not the law enforcement brotherhood "investigating" themselves and....surprise! Finding no wrong doing. :(

If that's good enough for you or I (if we did the same thing)...then it should be good enough for cops too. They aren't supposed to be above the law.

a biker? of course a biker is going to think that everything the cops do is justified

right?

No, I know Robbie.

http://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf-a...a4bcf6878.html

Here's the only problem with that...or at least the major one that I can think of. This is a job where you may be called upon to shoot someone. They give you the gun and train you how and when to use it. You may, on any given day you are on the job, be called upon to do just that. Any good lawyer will tell you that juries are unpredictable. You are putting your fate in the hands of people who likely have never been in your shoes. All you need is a few cop haters on that jury and you can get screwed even if you didn't do anything wrong.

If that is the risk of the job you would have a difficult time finding quality people to do it.

I have no problem at all with setting up tasks forces and training non-police people to investigate shootings to help determine if something potentially illegal went down, but if the reality is that you shoot someone, you end up on trial and may go to jail for life, many cops would quit and do something else and many would-be quality cops would never join and would just go into another line of work.

Lets face it, cop's badassness wasn't anywhere near Robbie's. Not even Jason Statham badass, or Bruce Willis semi-badass. He did what most of us cowards would do.

Not a matter of whether or not he will be found justified, it's a matter of what should constitute justification.

I'd chalk this one up to not guilty and get on with the real conversation.

Perhaps if they all faced real jail time they wouldn't use lethal force so quickly OR they would carry non-lethal weapons with them at all times and use them first. What happened to rubber bullets, tasers, mace, and any other weapons that have been created that are non-lethal? They are planning a mission to MARS but no one has invested a better weapon for police to use? :helpme

As it stands, it's too easy for police to kill people and get away with it. The he said / she said nonsense all comes down to who is better represented in court. Most of this can be fixed by making them all wear cameras with audio. Then it will always be clear what happened. It will sort out the hot heads from the legit police officers real quick. I don't think that is too much to ask from someone who has the legal authority to take a life. We have the technology for this to happen right now, so there is really no excuse why they all are not wearing a cam right now.

You kinda just quit discussing this topic didn't you? But thanks for being kinda obsessive of me. I'm flattered. :) :1orglaugh

100% in agreement.

Now just pray that baddog and Horatio Caine don't crucify you for it. :1orglaugh

Thing is, in a situation like this exact one (if it plays out like the cops say it did), the problem isn't that the cop *doesn't* go on trial, it's that Average Joe *does* go on trial.

Though I'm talking specifically about this single case, and if it turns out that for once the cops are being truthful. If those turn out to be facts, then neither he, nor Mr. Joe should be arrested etc, rather than both Mr. Joe and he *should* face trial.

Though that'll never happen of course, because so much about the system as we know it is fucked up, not to mention how it's steered people's thinking.

death by cop is about 400 cases per year in the US, in Germany about 8

the US has like 4 times more people - that would make about 30 cases per year.

not 400.

I agree. The same thing that would happen to you or I if we went to court. The cops should have to face the same thing.

As DWB said...do we really need cops to be shooting and killing unarmed people to "protect" us?

Or would they still be able to do their job (serve and protect) without having to shoot and/or kill so many people?
Not talking about a gunfight...of course the cops are gonna shoot like crazy in that situation...I'm referring to the kind of thing that happened in this case.

As DWB said...maybe if they DID face the same consequences as every other person, they wouldn't be so quick to pull those guns.

And the cameras are definitely needed.

The fact that most cops and cop unions are against cops wearing cameras on their uniforms speaks volumes in my opinion.

I think they would be forced to give them some kind of alternative weapons and or support. There would need to be money put in place so that every patrol car could have two cops in it instead of one so they always had backup in every situation.

You can't give someone a gun, train them to use it, expect them to use it when needed them put them on trial for their lives if they use it and still expect quality people to do that job.

I presume you have a link to back that up; would love to read it.

I am 100% for all cops wearing cameras. We have the technology and we should use it. If a cop acts criminally they should be charged and dealt with as such.

Here is the difference between you, me and a cop. We don't deal with scumbags and criminals all day long every day. Every time a cop does their job (meaning a traffic stop, responding to a call etc) they could be in harms way and may be put in a situation where they are called upon to use force to defend themselves or someone else. We don't face that same kind of daily exposure so the odds of us shooting someone in self defense are much lower than that of a cops.

One of the major problems with law enforcement on a large scale is the pay and the quality of people they can get for it. The average cop makes about $25-$28 per hour (it can be a little more or less depending on the state or city). That is an average of around $58K per year before taxes. Considering the risk, the shit you have to put up with, the stress and potential downfall if things go wrong, it is no wonder many people aren't willing to do that job for that money.

If they really want the best people they are going to have to increase the pay and make changes to the system in order to get them or they are going to end up continuing to get many officers who are there for all the wrong reasons.

nobody becomes a cop for the pay. Certain types of people become cops, the same way certain types of people become nurses. The #1 problem with cops is the (90% of the time) type of person that wants to be one. Obviously though, society needs these people to be like that to become cops in the first place, so it's a trade-off.

Cameras would be a huge step forward, and could easily be funded if powers that be chose to do so. That's a whole other debate though so I won't go into that :)

Of the cops I know there seem to be four different types of people that become cops.

1. Family business. Dad or uncle or grandpa or someone in the family was a cop so a person grew up around it, respects it and follows in their footsteps.

2. Sense of duty. These can be ex-military people or just people who really want to help make their city/community a better place to live and help people.

3. It's a good job. These are people who decide to look into law enforcement because once you get hired so long as you don't screw up too bad you will have lifelong job security if you want it.

4. Cowboy. These are the people who have inferiority complexes or other issues or they just like the idea of having power over people. They think they are a badass and want a job where they can bully people.

Most of them don't go into it for the money, you are correct. The problem is that you get people that go into it for the wrong reasons and they end up being scared on the job. The ones that are scared are the ones that end up shooting people. Bully cops would rather punch you in the face than shoot you. Scare cops shoot you because they are afraid you are going to punch them. If they paid more then they might get a larger candidate pool to choose from and they could better weed out the lesser desirable candidates.

Of all the cops I know the good cops have no problem with the idea of wearing a camera and welcome it. The bullies and the shitty ones are the ones that don't want it.

No, no, no. This has nothing to do with you personally. Its about every bad ass behind his monitor or "could've, would've, should've" type. Nothing personal.

Three unarmed youths almost killed this girl. Had there been cop near by Im all for him to unload entire clip on those bustards. WWRD (What would Robbie do) ?

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1152754

Holy shit, that's the exact same scenario! Fantastic comparison! Well done! Etc!

I'm not trying to be a bad ass. And neither should that cop have tried to be a bad ass. That's my whole point.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't have put myself in the position that cop did. And if I did find myself in that position, I would try to de-escalate the situation as best as I could without leading to violence.

If violence DID come...as I said earlier, I'd probably just shoot the guy if I had a gun. Though I would have definitely not been scared of him. I'm sure you wouldn't just let another man grab you like he owns you either. I'll bet that when push comes to shove you would bust somebody right in the face that tried that on you.

But neither of us are cops. And that's my whole point.

The cops are supposed to be able to know what to do in these situations. They aren't supposed to be pulling their guns and shooting six times at an unarmed guy.

Has nothing to do with being a badass. And believe me, I hate keyboard warriors too. I think people should behave online as they do in real life.

I kinda agree with your 4 examples, but still belive you need a bit of a superiority complex regardless of which of those 4 you fall into, and it's slightly more complex. I'll admit I'm biased though, so I'll stick in 'in my experience' :)

And yup exactly, with what you outlined as the problem.

That's population figures not total fucking douchbag figures US cops have to deal with. Plus in our culture guns are the norm.

And Robbies isn't figuring in the fear factor some cops have. The Missouri cop appeared to be very soft looking, many cops are way out muscled these days.

Then you have the states with "3 strike" laws where any 3rd felony is guaranteed forever in prison which means anyone a cop might come into contact with might shoot him dead the minute he's approached if he's already had priors.

And lastly, not to defend cops but to make a point .... It's a fucking game when you are confronted by a cop. Leave the fucking attitude at home, be helpful, respectful, and when you are a couple miles away laugh and realize it's you that won because nothing bad happened.

Look at Baddog, you think that veteran biker hasn't had his face time with cops?

Most videos where someone gets seriously hurt have a distinct point where anyone can see what's about to happen except the dumbass about to get hurt.

Case in point, a kid that just assaulted a store owner, stole merchandise then is walking down the fucking middle of the street attracting attention. Granted that alone isn't cause to get shot but once again what a dumb-ass.


.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

But seriously...those three guys beating that girl up was horrible. I'm sure that if any of us had been there and had a gun we would have shot those fuckers.

The cops though? No. They aren't supposed to shoot people. They are supposed to arrest them and put them in jail if necessary.
The cops job (as if there ever is a cop around when this kind of thing happens) would be to pull out those guns (this is a life and death situation) and arrest these thugs.

And as Jel is pointing out...this isn't even close to the case being discussed here. :)

That is such a bullshit conclusion to arrive at that you must be trolling.

In Brazil

I know several cops, not one has come off as having a superiority complex.

grapesoda pondered earlier if brassmonkey had hacked my GFY account.

On that same line of thinking...I'm starting to believe that Rochard has hacked baddog's GFY account!

"Well, it never happens to anyone that I know..." </Rochard Simulation Mode> :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

lol ok in Brazil maybe :winkwink:

I know several as well, personally rather than 'professionally', shall we put it. Every one of them has this trait. Unless you want to argue whether I know it's actually inferiority, or superiority, or whether they are just selp-important jackasses. Nuances of each aside, they all have the look-at-me-I'm-a-hero-my-god-if-only-you-knew-how-great-all-us-cops-are type shit going on :2 cents:

Bertie big bollocks syndrome.

You guys previously chased all the riff raff away...

Have three cops and one detective on my baseball team. None have superiority complex.
Personally had one small conflict with half a cop - campus police. Bicycle rookie told us we couldn't buy beer to homeless guy and have him sit with us on the patio.
Makes me wonder what kind of neighborhoods you people live in to have such miserable experience with cops. Robbie, how does your police record looks like, honestly?

What does that have to do with anything? lol

But if you must know...I've had speeding tickets in my life. That's about it.

Having lived during the 1980's on the strip in Ft. Lauderdale, the late 1980's in Myrtle Beach, early 1990's in Orlando and Atlanta, traveled all over the country in my bands (driving from Miami to Detroit to Jackson to New Orleans and everywhere in between) PLUS being able to watch the news, see the vids that are showing up everywhere of crooked cops...it doesn't take a police record (of which I have none) to understand what's happening in this country: Militarization of police forces, their ability to "stop and frisk" people on the streets, their ability to search your car (which they didn't used to be able to do without a warrant or your permission), go through your wife's purse...the list goes on and on brother.

I live in a neighborhood that most folks can't afford. So no, there's no police brutality going on outside my window.

But I'm not blind to it either. Maybe you are? Maybe you don't give a shit? Maybe you're just trolling me?
Don't know. Don't care.

I'm just trying to have a discussion about something that I find interesting and that I think something needs to be done about.
Maybe you don't. That's your prerogative. :)

But so far what you have added to the discussion is:
1. I'm not really as tall as I really am.
2. I must be hiding a "police record" that I don't have
3. The cops you know are "nice".

Okay. The first two things you think are bullshit. The 3rd one is okay. As I have said (over and over) I have family who are law enforcement (including my mom). Also some of my best friends are cops and worked wrestling shows with me all over the Southeast.

Doesn't mean that cops overall aren't out of control.

Vegas cops are so mean - https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=641192

Can you imagine the shitshow that will happen when Wilson gets acquitted? They might need to use tactical nukes to end the riots. The anger is still boiling over, and it's been a few weeks.

What the heck is wrong with you baddog? Did I do something to piss you off? Or are you just looking to make enemies or something? I feel like you are needling me for some reason.

And by the way the cops in Vegas set new records the last few years for killing unarmed citizens.
But they've been doing it for a long time in Vegas. Here's one from 2003:
"2003: While surrendering on his knees in front of four Las Vegas police officers, Orlando Barlow is shot with an assault rifle by officer Brian Hartman from 50 feet away. Hartman argued that he feared Barlow was feigning surrender and about to grab a gun. Barlow was unarmed; a jury ruled the fatal shooting was "excusable." Hartman later resigned from the force a month before a federal probe uncovered that he and other officers printed T-Shirts labeled "BDRT" which stood for "Baby's Daddy Removal Team" and "Big Dogs Run Together." The probe also found that Hartman and other officers had used excessive force during two separate investigations and lied about it. Their punishment: the possibility of losing their jobs"

Now please get off my nutsack and just discuss the topic. Most of your posts in this thread have been you trying to make me look bad with snide remarks. And again, I'm unsure of what you are hoping to accomplish. If it's to piss me off, then congrats to you for "winning". Just not sure why you are doing it.

That old goat is never going to change his ways, don't even worry about his opinion. He just makes one-line smart ass comments because he thinks that makes him look smart. Notice how he again conveniently ignored my previous post:


And you do? Show us just one thread of a controversial situation involving a cop which you've sided with the person that is not law enforcement... not once. This means you don't look at the facts, you don't look at the witness reports, you certainly don't look at an video footage; you have your mind made up that you will infallibly always side with the cop. People like you are ignorant and dangerous in society. And usually are law enforcement (which you are not) or have relatives or family in law enforcement.

There was a recent thread when a black guy pulled into a gas station, cop pulls up and asks the guy for his ID then unloads on him, even when the guy had his hands raised. Everything on video from start to finish. I scoured that thread just to see your opinion (not because I give a shit about it but more that your ignorance fascinates me and gives me a glimpse inside the demented minds of people like you) and guess what, no comment from you. None of the usual 'yea but what happened before the video' bullshit, nothing. So on an issue like that when it's clear as day, instead of commenting about excessive force you just remain silent. Speaks volumes about you and your morale compass.

see - that's the difference between you and L-Pink - he makes a point i can relate to and you just drop your infamous one liners

makes you wonder who's the real troll here? :upsidedow

and maybe high quality people don't want to be cops anymore...who in the fuck wants to babysit a bunch of stupid, angry, obnoxious fucktards for 60K a year?

Most amazing thing to me about this whole thing. If the cop had just been charged the city/county and whomever would have saved 10's of millions of $$$$. Granted upon the acquittal they would've been mad but at least they would've had the facts then and I guarantee the protests would not have lasted this long. Most people that shoot and kill get charged and then get their day in court to be acquitted once the facts are presented. I think this is the problem most have in cop killings. They do a good job of protecting their own so people never get the real story. Just in this thread alone we have people claiming to know facts when no one knows the facts. If you don't believe me just read this article about a man that is trying to put together an unbiased cop killing database and the trouble he is having getting info.
http://gawker.com/what-ive-learned-f...oli-1625472836
Even in this case Ferguson is charging exorbitant fees just to get records that should be available to the public.

Another thing I find interesting the # of civil cases that are won against cops when the victim lives is much more than when the victim dies. Think about that.