Brother, you are missing a very big fact.
Michael Brown was unarmed and the cop shot him SIX times including TWICE in the head:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...e-in-the-head/

Now you can call names and think you are smarter than everyone else...but the last I checked stealing from a store and acting like an asshole didn't call for the death penalty.

By the way I'm not a "Michael Brown supporter" as you are trying to label people.

I am just a person who has watched the cops get more and more power and become more and more aggressive and abusive during my lifetime. Nothing more, nothing less.

This is going to be a long thread. I'll make some popcorn.

http://www.rochardsbunnyranch.com/rock/popcorn2.jpg

I'm pretty sure that if any person, black or white, tried to drag me out of my car I could handle it. Hell, I might even shoot them, though I'd probably just knock the guys teeth out instead. lol

But then again, I'm not a cop. And I wouldn't have drove up on two guys and started barking orders at them. So that particular situation wouldn't have happened to me.

I said the same thing once.

I woke up five minutes later. Still not sure what happened.

Based on your size I highly doubt it. Best thing you can do to 280 lbs 6'2" guy is to hit the pedal to the metal

You are the one that is missing the facts that makes it self-defense on the cops part, but when it comes to cops you could not care less what the facts were. :2 cents:

Try doing it on teh internets. Safer.

I'm plenty big enough to handle a guy like that. I'm 6'1" 210 pounds. I'm pretty sure that I could knock the living hell out of that guy. Tangled with bigger in my life.

But that's not the point. The point is that the police are not supposed to be killing people.

Petty theft isn't a capital offense. Neither is getting into a fight. And yeah, people do get killed for doing dumb shit like Michael Brown did...but the police aren't supposed to be killing people. They are supposed to be civil servants.

That's what I'm saying. They aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner.

I can see by the way you're approaching this that you think otherwise. Hey, it's a free country.
I just disagree with allowing cops to get away with killing unarmed people.

If this cop assessed the situation and realized that he wasn't physically able to handle this guy...then why did he start running his mouth?
Hindsight being 20/20, I'm guessing he probably wishes that he had called for backup first.
Sure would have made this a different situation.

I think the cops are a bit out of control. Seeing some of the crap they have been pulling leads me to that conclusion.

If it had been YOU in this situation. And YOU had shot this guy dead...you would have been arrested and in jail. And then facing a judge.

It should be the same for the cop. They shouldn't be above the law.

And if he went to court and was found Not Guilty, then he would walk away. Just like George Zimmerman did.

But he should be held accountable. He pulled a gun at a fist fight and killed the other guy.

That's just the way I see it. And until the law is applied the same to cops and citizens...then the cops will continue acting as if they are above the law.

I think they should all be wearing cameras. And if they kill somebody under ANY circumstance...it needs to be investigated by an agency outside of the local police force/law enforcement brotherhood.

:1orglaugh Ain't that the truth! :1orglaugh

I fucking hate cops, and authority of any kind. I'm an asshole like that. But... it wasn't *just* a fistfight - the guy was going for the gun (or at least, the cop THOUGHT he was going for his gun, rightly or wrongly, he's now in that mindset. Maybe correctly, maybe not, that part doesn't matter at this specific point).

If you were carrying, you wouldn't necessarily shoot to kill the other guy, but once you thought he was going for your gun, instinct kicks in, and self-preservation is about the strongest force there is. Logic, reasoning, and rational thinking take a walk, and things spiral.

When the guy turned back, was the cop in danger of his life? Of course not, but now this cop has been in a fight/struggle with the guy, which is enough to set alarm bells ringing, so he panicked like fuck, and put a couple through the guys head.

Is that 'right' or 'proper' - well no, not when you look at it with a clear head, not even a little bit. But... I can 100% understand *why* the cop did what he did. Sometimes, darwinism just steps in, and you just have to take that fact on the chin, and say well, he was a dumbass, and initially escalated the situation. Not saying he *deserved* to be shot and killed for being a thief and a stoner, but he did reap what he sowed to a very large degree.

Fuck that. Don't fuck up and you won't get shot. Why does that cop have to win a fight or possibly lose one and not go home that night?

Fuck people who think they can run, put the public in a panic and possibly kill somebody else during a high speed chase. Just kill the fucking morons.

Are you sure about that? Claudia Marie is what 5'3"? Plenty of pix with two of you together and unless you or I gained few inches since 2010 I call bs.
Dude, I know its internet and all but come on :1orglaugh

You'd think all consenting adults get this.

out of curiosity: it was in US or Netherlands (your sig)?

If this version of events is true, then I'll change my stance to "he was asking for it"...but I still think the cop should have been able to handle the situation without taking his life.

..and the marijuana in his system thing doesn't make sense because when has anyone heard of a violent high person?

i know some people who used to enjoy smoking and then picking fights. Numbed them to any pain they received. Some people are just mean and looking for action

I have not been following this case so I will refrain from commenting on it. However, I will share my thoughts about police and deadly force.

- Police have a hard job. They never know who they are going to roll up on and if they will try to kill them or not. So I do acknowledge the danger of their profession.

- They are human. They make mistakes, lie, destroy evidence, or whatever they have to do to cover their own ass if they need to. The flip side to that coin is they can also sometimes be good and help you when you need them. But there are a lot of bad apples that ruin it for the good ones.

- All police should be equipped with cameras on their body. Preferably two of them in case one malfunctions. If you can militarize a police force and give them the legal authority to take a life, you can put cameras on their person and in their car, looking out AND looking in, with audio.

- Police should be trained, and spend an hour per day training continually if they must, to learn how to do their job without using lethal force. They should all be able to take a normal person (not jacked up on something) down with their hands and restrain them. If you can't do this, you shouldn't be a police officer. Period. Training for this should never stop, so they are great at it and it is second nature. If they are confident they can handle it without their weapon, it just may save lives.

- Pulling their firearm should always, always, always be the very last resort when all else fails and their life is literally in danger. Simply pulling your firearm as a first response because you don't know how to deal with someone with your hands is a cop out and unacceptable. Non-lethal force should always come first, every time, no matter what.

- The bar is set too low to become a police officer. They need to raise it, much higher. They don't need cowboys with guns, they need well trained men who keep their cool, know how to handle themselves at all times, are friendly with the public at all times, and never think of using their gun unless they absolute have to. The days of testosterone driven idiots barking orders at, or assaulting the very people they are paid to serve, need to go.

I've been wrongfully physically abused by the police, and I've seen them lie in court one after another to protect each other, so I know it happens. I can't imagine the lengths they will go to in order to cover up a murder, as corruption runs through every police force and by default they will always protect their own. People shouldn't fear the police, but depending on where you live, or what color you are, you may. That is the first indication that something is massively wrong with the system.

To add... nothing you can do other than trying to take a life, should result in getting yours taken. Attacking a policeman with your bare hands is not enough to justify getting killed. Beat up, tazed, maced, or your balls smashed, sure. But not shot and killed.

What??? I'm 6'1" and have been since highschool. Since I don't know who you are, I can't say when I ever met you.

Anyway, you're memory isn't very good or you're just fucking with me. Either way, it doesn't have much to do with this topic.

I can agree with that. It's sort of what I think too.

People get scared and panic and shoot to kill. That's why I can't see how anybody could say the cop was just doing his job when he shot the guy 6 times including twice in the head.

Difference is...if you or I were carrying a gun and got scared and shot someone six times including twice in the head...we'd go to jail.

How many times did George Zimmerman shoot Trayvon Martin. Once during the fight.
And look at the shitstorm over that.

I think that this cop should have never drawn his weapon.
I think he should have never initiated the whole confrontation if he knew he couldn't physically handle the situation.
And in the end, when the shit hit the fan...I KNOW he didn't need to shoot this guy 6 times including TWICE in the head.

That's not being a cop. That's just plain out killing somebody else.

I just want to say that the cop in the gas station who shot at that guy 4 times when he turned "aggressively" to get his drivers license as ordered also claimed he was in fear for his life. That's not the issue.

IQ's are also not the issue. Remember in 1999 the courts ruled that police can screen applicants and deny those with higher IQ's as a way to reduce turnover.

I haven't been following this one but nothing would surprise me. Nothing at all from either side.

Aren't you removing the possibility that the guy already went for the gun in the car in some sort of struggle resulting in it going off. Not sure I could make that call if that was the case.
All you would know at that time was the guy already went for your gun and it went off so you could think he already tried to shot you. Can you really say that you know 100% that he doesn't also have his own gun? Where would the reasonable line of thinking be in not shooting someone that is possibly armed that has already tried to use deadly force.

Cops are train to aim for center mass.
This is not a new thing, this is how it has been for decades and decades.
The thinking is that "should" a cop need to shoot some one it is only for life or death situations and missing the person could result in hitting someone else etc..
So missing someone that is not the intended target is really not an option...

Key point being that puling a gun should only be done if the situation falls into having a high possibility of ending up in a life of death situation.

Using the gun should only be as a last resort and only if its a life or death situation.

There does needs to be considerably more focus on constant training of cops to understand how to deal with situation to deescalated rather than have them escalated. And in saying that I agree the cop should have been trained to be able to see that he should not have entered a situation where he really should have just called for back up and not pulled his gun.

I'm not removing that possibility... I think that may very well have happened.

I also can't understand what that cop was thinking by sitting in his car barking orders at people when he wasn't prepared to back it up. As you said, he should have called for backup.

The "center mass" thing is a "copout" for the police (pun intended).
This cop wasn't shooting for center mass to avoid hitting other people. He shot the guy six freakin' times including two kill shots to the head.

That's a guy who shouldn't BE a cop. And it's a guy who should be going to jail and in front of a jury to get this sorted out (like every other citizen would).

I think that DWB's post above pretty much summed up the way I see it too.

yup I agree with all that too. And what DWB said. Sometimes though, it's prudent to just say you know what, sometimes shit like this just happens, due to fuckups from both/all sides. Neither is totally at fault, and neither is guilty of being 100% to blame. Ofc, just from what I've seen of it, which is only gfy :thumbsup

In general I don't see the center mass as a "copout"... *when used properly etc...
Mostly be cause I don't want a cop aiming for a leg, missing and hitting me or someone I know.. When it's used in conjunction to a shooting where the gun should not have been pulled or cop should have just waited for back up etc.. it's just abuse of protocol to cover ones ass.

I'm speaking in generalities because I was not there, and this case has way too much BS and bias all over it to even try to form a solid opinion of ones own... In the end I think this maybe the factor that leads to it not going to trial.

Also wanted to say agree with this not 100% but 99% is enough

You know, you just hate to admit it. Nobody here is saying that cops don't make mistakes, mistakes that cause deaths. but you are assuming that all cops are dangerous psychopaths murdering everyone they come across, which is ludicrous. both of us know they aren't. They aren't pure evil and neither are most of the criminals they have to deal with on a daily basis, but this doesn't mean they don't have the right to protect themselves when threatened which is almost certain what happened in this case.

And you do? Show us just one thread of a controversial situation involving a cop which you've sided with the person that is not law enforcement... not once. This means you don't look at the facts, you don't look at the witness reports, you certainly don't look at an video footage; you have your mind made up that you will infallibly always side with the cop. People like you are ignorant and dangerous in society. And usually are law enforcement (which you are not) or have relatives or family in law enforcement.

There was a recent thread when a black guy pulled into a gas station, cop pulls up and asks the guy for his ID then unloads on him, even when the guy had his hands raised. Everything on video from start to finish. I scoured that thread just to see your opinion (not because I give a shit about it but more that your ignorance fascinates me and gives me a glimpse inside the demented minds of people like you) and guess what, no comment from you. None of the usual 'yea but what happened before the video' bullshit, nothing. So on an issue like that when it's clear as day, instead of commenting about excessive force you just remain silent. Speaks volumes about you and your morale compass.

i am confused.. why can't they just test the blood in the cruiser wilson had? Seems like a slam dunk case if they were able to test the car for Browns blood?

I think that has already been done and confirmed. I believe it was posted on the first page of this thread.

i scanned and can't see it? i am hearing things that the car disappeared and was cleaned before it could be properly tested.. so it is unable to be used as evidence?

also,

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...y-report-msnbc

Expert: My Michael Brown Autopsy Analysis Was Taken 'Out Of Context'

Exactly, and you can't argue with the facts.

The one irrefutable fact here is that had this large kid not been out strutting around the nieghborhood like king kong and acting like he can take what he wants and smack around or threaten whomever he wants (clearly caught on store camera and backed up by eyewitness accounts) he would still be alive today. All the evidence I've seen suggests he very much did have that "fuck you - I'm huge, I'll fuck you up if you get in my way" attitude, which only lends credence to the cops' accounting of events.

Robbie, I'm certainly not a fan of cops in a lot of cases by any stretch, but in this case your bias is a bit too overwhelming here. A lot of cops need work, several are downright shitty cops, but not all are as corrupt and incompetant as your posts suggest.

I'd say I know or have known personally over 25 cops in my lifetime, most of them as friends. I can't think of ONE who wouldn't pull up and tell a couple of punks to get off the goddamn street and stop blocking traffic. Whatever occurs after that is really up to the thug, not the cop. The cop is going to do what he's going to do. The only variable is the thug's actions.

Had he chosen a different set of actions he'd still be alive. And that's a fact.

I got attacked once like that by a crazy ex-boyfriend of a girl I was screwing. We stopped at a light (she was driving) and my door swings open and someone starts swinging on me so fast I had no idea what was going on. I was all tangled in the seat belt trying to get out, and the only thing I could do was go for his nuts, so I did. That took him down and ended up sending him to the hospital. He hit like a girl, otherwise I would have got my ass handed to me while fighting a seat belt. Months later he had a handful of his bouncer friends beat me within an inch of my life at a club, split my lower lip into two, literally. But you know what, that pussy was worth every stitch. :thumbsup

A few of my good friends are cops. One of these guys is someone I have been friends with since grade school. He is a smart guy (I would assume at least of average to above average IQ) as are a good number of the officers he works with. That said, when I asked him what qualities make a good cop he said it isn't so much about IQ. That can help you write good reports and do good investigations, but on a day to day basis it all comes down to how well you can handle dealing with crazy bitches. He didn't mean just angry women, but people in general who have flipped out and are losing it. If you can keep your cool and deal with them well, you will be a good cop. If that causes you to freak out as well, you won't.

I think a lot of these cops that shoot people potentially prematurely don't handle crazy bitches well.

As usual...the voice of logic...reason...and good common sense.

Sorry that just sounds retarded.

I've had a small cop, about 5'10 pull a taser on me because I yelled at him in a confined room. He was not doing his job right. But at least it was a taser!

Most of the cops I see in LA these days are 5'10" and smaller.

PS, Been a bouncer, (Remember I'm a big guy) taking someone to the ground is an easy, cops know how to do it, but at the gun range, I've seen few cops that can shoot all that well!

Me, just grab an arm and play Tasmanian Devil, they won't use that arm again for months!

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20263033&postcount=33

Michael Brown's gunshot wounds included a shot in the hand at close range, his official autopsy shows, according to an analysis reported by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper.


https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20263103&postcount=44



- The officer shot Brown twice in the arm. Gunpowder residue was found in the wounds, shell casings and Browns blood in the car, proving there was indeed a close combat struggle.

Admit what?
And I'm not "assuming" anything. I guess I'm not communicating this correctly.

Here's my thoughts EXACTLY:
1. Cops have been given too much power.
2. When people get too much power...many of them will abuse it.
3. Cops shouldn't be shooting people in situations like this...much less shooting them six times with 2 shots straight in the head.

I don't know how to make it much clearer. I've already said my mom was a deputy sheriff, my grandfather on my mom's side was the chief of police in the town I grew up in, my step-brother is a cop, two of my cousins are cops. I have had a lot buddies who were cops (and worked with me in independent pro-wrestling federations in the Southeastern U.S.)
So no, I don't think cops are "evil". I think they have been given too much power and are able to get away with killing unarmed people.

They should go to jail just like you or I would if we had done the EXACT same thing.

No need to exaggerate my position and get all drama queen-y about it.

ahh my mistake, i am more referring to the blood in the car itself

edit: yea vague references:

'Brown's blood was found on the officer's uniform and inside his police car, law enforcement sources told CNN this week. Those sources corroborated details first reported by The New York Times.'

however there is reports that the vehicle was removed from the scene, regardless of hte body being left in the street for hours.. the rumour is the car was improperly handled and won't be used as evidence?

I think the reports are saying that this guy reached in through the window of the cop car (the door was locked). That's what I meant. If somebody reached through my window and tried to pull me out...they'd get an elbow in the face at the least, and at most I'd hit the gas and hang on to them and drag their sorry ass down the street.

At least that's what would happen if I were staring at them and saw them coming at me (like this cop did).

What happened to you sounds like you got caught unaware at first.

The fucking assumptions you make are astounding.

'I can not believe it; Michael Brown had it coming'

I hear you and agree that IQ isn't everything. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the IQ level of Brown supporters, or words to that effect, so I thought I would throw in probably the only applicable fact we know about the IQ's of anyone involved, even though it was lame. :)

When I was a radioshack store manager I would often hang out and talk to the cops who walked the beat around one particular store. They had some of the best stories about crazy people and I usually had to be the one to tell them that I had to go and get busy with my work. I'm sure they could have gone on for hours and never run out.

I'm not assuming anything. That was on the news that he pulled his cruiser over and told them to move.

I certainly wouldn't have had the balls to pull up to two strangers I don't know and talk to them like that if I were alone...unless of course I had a gun and a badge.

I don't know what part of "if he wasn't prepared to back it up" you didn't understand.
That's why I said if he COULDN'T back it up...he should have called for backup. God only knows that the cops always seem to show up in force every time I see them pull somebody over (it apparently takes at least 2 cars and 3 or 4 officers to give a soccer mom a speeding ticket here in Vegas).

Jesus...you and others in this thread are being so over-dramatic and silly.

This cop pulled up and pissed off a couple of young men who also happened to be bullies and had just robbed a place.
The cop's actions led to an altercation and the one guy getting shot 6 times until he was dead.

Maybe, just maybe...if the cop had been better at his job, when they got aggressive he would have called for back up.

There really wasn't any reason for this to happen.

As I said earlier...every night of the week, bouncers in bars handle aggressive big men.

I bounced at a strip club in South Carolina back in 1996.
I never killed anyone.
Most times you can handle people without getting physical. Even really big guys.
This cop had no skill in how to do that. Apparently he acted like a lot of cops do these days: They order you around and expect you to OBEY their every COMMAND.

Hell, half the posts in here are saying that if you don't obey their commands (like a dog) you "deserve" what you get.
I say, that's not the way it's supposed to be.

They are supposed to be civil servants. Protecting people. Not killing people.

Look, this guy Michael Brown was young and full of testosterone. He was looking for trouble, and had just robbed a store and bullied the guy behind the counter. He wasn't even gonna take any shit from a cop.

That's pretty damn aggressive.

Doesn't mean he should be dead. It means he should have gotten locked up and shown the error of his ways.

In the end...the cop on the scene is the one who is supposed to be the "better" man and handle the situation in a way that brings about the best outcome.

That's not what happened. I'm not saying I could do it any better. I'm saying that a well trained officer who deserves to be a cop would have handled it much better.
And this so-called cop who shot this guy 6 times with 2 kill shots to the head...should go to jail and to trial, just like you or I would.

what about jumping a cop and going for his gun?

Yea, totally caught off guard.

so MB was not responsible in any way for the situation.... that's your thinking? it's not like the cop pulled MB out of the house while he was doing his homework, or shot MB on the way home from his job at micky d's.... at what point does MB bear responsibility for any of this?

and maybe high quality people don't want to be cops anymore...who in the fuck wants to babysit a bunch of stupid, angry, obnoxious fucktards for 60K a year?

I don't think he "jumped a cop". The cop pulled up and accosted them from his patrol car. The guy mouthed off back at the cop and ran up to the window and according to the news reports tried to pull the cop out the window.

The cop's version is that the guy was going for his weapon (which if it were in the holster and this big guy is reaching in an open window seems kinda difficult to do).

But apparently the cop shot him while still in the car on the first shot.

The whole thing's fucked up.

Now, if a person walked up behind a cop and actually "jumped" him, put the beat down on him and grabbed the gun...yeah, he's probably gonna get shot.

Should he be shot 6 times with two of them straight to the head?
I guess...if it's a mob hit on the Sopranos.
But a trained police officer doing that? Isn't that the definition of "overkill" (literally)

Nope, that's not my "thinking" on it.

Am I not typing in clear English or something? Or are you joining in on the exaggerations of what I'm saying?

Fuck. I'll try again: It's not the JOB of some fucked up young bully to be the "good guy". He was the BAD guy.
And it's not the JOB of a cop to escalate a scenario into a situation where somebody gets killed.

This cop was not good at his job.