Losing money from cookies? - GoFuckYourself.com

khy · 03-12-2003, 05:03 PM

I bought an ad on consumptionjunction and like most promos I do, I tracked with an affiliate code. Only this time, I used the Epoch clicktrack code (I normally use a script that I wrote to track for the Ibill affiliate program). After getting terrible results for the first week or so on the ad, I decided to switch to the other link code (using my own script) and sales from the ad tripled immediately and consistently.

My question... I believe Epoch, CCbill et al use cookies to track affiliate hits and I wonder how long the expiration on the cookie is and how many users just plain have cookies disabled?

The script I wrote for my Ibill program puts a 30 day cookie on the surfer AND logs their IP in a database that I clear every 3-4 days, so even if a cookie is disabled, the affiliate "owns" the referred IP for a couple days.

*IF* typical programs only cookie (and maybe only with a short expiry of 24hrs or so), it seems to me that would be sort of like shaving.

If only half of sales get credited to Epoch affiliates (compared to my Ibill ones)... HELL, I could afford to pay $40 and $50 a signup no problem!

Any thoughts on this?

khy · 03-12-2003, 05:49 PM

bump -

What no one wanna talk about this? I think it is a real issue. The processors offer affiliate programs, but they don't appear to track fer crap.... or is that the standard in the affiliate biz? Cookie the surfer for a few hours (if he has cookies enabled)... and other than that, screw it. Grab a few extra sales that you don't need to pay your affiliates for?

There's got to be a better way. Come on big boyz! Come brag about how your affiliate program tracks to ensure traffic that is sent earns it max potential!!! Don't tell me that if I send you a hit and the surfer doesn't have cookies enables or if he doesn't buy that day that I lose the exposure I gave your site??

NetRodent · 03-12-2003, 05:49 PM

I've lost a lot of money to Oreos. Damn things are too tasty.

Seriously though, cookies are too unreliable to use for serious tracking purposes (like when there is money on the line). Find a sponsor who tracks your affiliate id in the query string. Those are more reliable.

xxxinnovations · 03-12-2003, 05:50 PM

All I know is that ccbill doesn't get me the signups jettis or psw get me...

Fletch XXX · 03-12-2003, 05:52 PM

cash only.

p00p · 03-12-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by khy
bump -

What no one wanna talk about this? I think it is a real issue. The processors offer affiliate programs, but they don't appear to track fer crap.... or is that the standard in the affiliate biz? Cookie the surfer for a few hours (if he has cookies enabled)... and other than that, screw it. Grab a few extra sales that you don't need to pay your affiliates for?

There's got to be a better way. Come on big boyz! Come brag about how your affiliate program tracks to ensure traffic that is sent earns it max potential!!! Don't tell me that if I send you a hit and the surfer doesn't have cookies enables or if he doesn't buy that day that I lose the exposure I gave your site??

This is important, although I don't have any answers for you. Hopefully someone does.....

rowan · 04-02-2003, 06:42 PM

Digging up a slightly old thread - IMHO, this is the best way to process for affiliates:

1. 3rd party biller entry link, sets cookie as usual.
2. Entry also contains the affiliate ID as a variable, and this is carried over to all pages on the paysite.
3. Signup form includes the affiliate ID as a hidden variable.
4. At the billing page:
4a) If the cookie exists, use that value;
4b) If the cookie does NOT exist, use the affiliate ID variable passed by the paysite.

This way you have the cookie set by the trusted 3rd party (and the paysite cannot modify it), plus you have the hard coded variable as backup in the event that the surfer doesn't have cookies enabled.

I don't know if any 3rd party billers support this yet, I know that PSW and Verotel don't...

My new site uses internal affiliate tracking for an unusual reason - if a surfer arrives via a non affiliate link (ie - blank affiliate ID) then selected affiliates will have their ID filled in depending on which page the surfer clicks the 'join' link from.

Wilbo · 04-02-2003, 06:54 PM

Sponsors don't want to talk about this. Who do you think gets all the untracked signups?

jimmyf · 04-02-2003, 07:47 PM

I think Kimmy went over this before, something about 3rd party cookies. But I don't trust her anymore......... She wears funny shoes..

zoic · 04-02-2003, 08:58 PM

What rowen said - passing through the affiliate code on all links is the only reliable method of tracking sales. We saw a huge jump in tracked signups when we changed to this method. Sponsors that rely solely on cookies are in effect shaving.

z

Platinum Dave · 04-02-2003, 09:24 PM

Platinum Bucks is almost ready to release our new NO COOKIE tracking system.

Yes we will track all signups cookies or no cookies

This will increase signups by at least 10%

Only at Platinum Bucks

RSCLuke · 04-02-2003, 10:30 PM

We're tracking partner IDs with cookies (set by Globill).
However, because there exists a percentage of users that have cookies disabled, we are also passing the partnerID via the URL and ultimately passing it from tour page to tour page to join page, back to the processor. Shave-proof anyone? ;)

Alysha · 04-07-2003, 09:46 AM

Hello, Alysha from Jettis here.

Our affiliate program Jumbo does use cookies to distinguish raw vs. unique clicks, however the sales are tracked by passing the affiliate information through the tours and join form by hardcoding.

Please contact us if you'd like to take a look at our reports and features and I'll be happy to give you a demo.

Alysha
Jettis
1-888-211-5924
[email protected]

ZoiNk · 04-07-2003, 10:10 AM

Ask your sponsor for hardcoded tours. Best way to avoid this. I use several sponsors that use it, or I go and set it up manually with them. Gives you a shitload more sales, esp from the bookmarkers.
ZoiNk

Darren · 04-07-2003, 10:35 AM

www.mensniche.com does what u do, it tracks via ip and cookie for 6 mnth

khy · 04-07-2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Our affiliate program Jumbo does use cookies to distinguish raw vs. unique clicks, however the sales are tracked by passing the affiliate information through the tours and join form by hardcoding.

Wow. Glad to see this got a little attention. Yes, I agree that passing through the affiliate id through the tour and hardcoded tours are both great ways of protecting your traffic from cookie-less surfers ON THEIR INITIAL VISIT. Anyone that takes this extra step is definately improving the situation, but it remains a fact that a significant number of surfers will come back to sites they liked LATER... not joining right away, but checking out several places and then deciding where to spend their money. Short expiration cookies and pass through variables will NOT give you credit for these returning sales. Hardcoded tours sound good, but do we really need a hardcoded tour for every sponsor/affiliate relationship to assure sales are paid? Is that the only way?

The system we use helps, but is not 100% accurate either. We log the surfers IP as a backup to the cookie, so on join form load, if a cookie does not exist, the IP is checked and credit is granted up to 5 DAYS after initial visit. But hell, IPs change more often than underwear in many cases and you can still lose sales there... PLUS as a sponsor I may sometimes be paying out for sales you didnt' send!! (esp with AOL's f'd up proxies) I really would think there would be a programming solution, but I just can't seem to come up with anything better....

besterman · 04-07-2003, 11:00 AM

most cookies last 3 days and the browser has a cookie cache per processor of 20 (if your surfer is hyperactive and visists more than 20 diff affiliated sites, anymore will drop off and you get no credit - minor issue I think).

Alternatively create your own join link with the code embedded..

JimW · 04-07-2003, 11:05 AM

yep hardcoding is the way to go,
especially with surfers not having their browser accepting cookies, especially in windows xp.

plus the firewalls out there that won't accept cookies.

03-12-2003, 05:03 PM	#1
khy Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 135	Losing money from cookies? I bought an ad on consumptionjunction and like most promos I do, I tracked with an affiliate code. Only this time, I used the Epoch clicktrack code (I normally use a script that I wrote to track for the Ibill affiliate program). After getting terrible results for the first week or so on the ad, I decided to switch to the other link code (using my own script) and sales from the ad tripled immediately and consistently. My question... I believe Epoch, CCbill et al use cookies to track affiliate hits and I wonder how long the expiration on the cookie is and how many users just plain have cookies disabled? The script I wrote for my Ibill program puts a 30 day cookie on the surfer AND logs their IP in a database that I clear every 3-4 days, so even if a cookie is disabled, the affiliate "owns" the referred IP for a couple days. IF typical programs only cookie (and maybe only with a short expiry of 24hrs or so), it seems to me that would be sort of like shaving. If only half of sales get credited to Epoch affiliates (compared to my Ibill ones)... HELL, I could afford to pay $40 and $50 a signup no problem! Any thoughts on this?

03-12-2003, 05:49 PM	#3
NetRodent Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the walls of your house. Posts: 3,985	I've lost a lot of money to Oreos. Damn things are too tasty. Seriously though, cookies are too unreliable to use for serious tracking purposes (like when there is money on the line). Find a sponsor who tracks your affiliate id in the query string. Those are more reliable. __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --H.L. Mencken Last edited by NetRodent; 03-12-2003 at 05:52 PM..

03-12-2003, 05:50 PM	#4
xxxinnovations Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,181	All I know is that ccbill doesn't get me the signups jettis or psw get me... __________________ Need CUSTOM T-Shirts or Custom ANYTHING? We'll Fucking do it! ICQ 37639971 or call 800-920-1233

03-12-2003, 05:52 PM	#5
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	cash only. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

04-02-2003, 07:47 PM	#9
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	I think Kimmy went over this before, something about 3rd party cookies. But I don't trust her anymore......... She wears funny shoes.. __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

04-02-2003, 06:42 PM	#7
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Digging up a slightly old thread - IMHO, this is the best way to process for affiliates: 1. 3rd party biller entry link, sets cookie as usual. 2. Entry also contains the affiliate ID as a variable, and this is carried over to all pages on the paysite. 3. Signup form includes the affiliate ID as a hidden variable. 4. At the billing page: 4a) If the cookie exists, use that value; 4b) If the cookie does NOT exist, use the affiliate ID variable passed by the paysite. This way you have the cookie set by the trusted 3rd party (and the paysite cannot modify it), plus you have the hard coded variable as backup in the event that the surfer doesn't have cookies enabled. I don't know if any 3rd party billers support this yet, I know that PSW and Verotel don't... My new site uses internal affiliate tracking for an unusual reason - if a surfer arrives via a non affiliate link (ie - blank affiliate ID) then selected affiliates will have their ID filled in depending on which page the surfer clicks the 'join' link from.

04-02-2003, 06:54 PM	#8
Wilbo Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Baltimore Posts: 2,082	Sponsors don't want to talk about this. Who do you think gets all the untracked signups?

04-02-2003, 08:58 PM	#10
zoic Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 84	What rowen said - passing through the affiliate code on all links is the only reliable method of tracking sales. We saw a huge jump in tracked signups when we changed to this method. Sponsors that rely solely on cookies are in effect shaving. z

04-02-2003, 09:24 PM	#11
Platinum Dave Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,441	Platinum Bucks is almost ready to release our new NO COOKIE tracking system. Yes we will track all signups cookies or no cookies This will increase signups by at least 10% Only at Platinum Bucks __________________ Check out Adult Rental - Only Pay Per Signup VOD!

04-02-2003, 10:30 PM	#12
RSCLuke Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: T.O. Posts: 113	We're tracking partner IDs with cookies (set by Globill). However, because there exists a percentage of users that have cookies disabled, we are also passing the partnerID via the URL and ultimately passing it from tour page to tour page to join page, back to the processor. Shave-proof anyone? ;) __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

04-07-2003, 09:46 AM	#13
Alysha Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 18	Hello, Alysha from Jettis here. Our affiliate program Jumbo does use cookies to distinguish raw vs. unique clicks, however the sales are tracked by passing the affiliate information through the tours and join form by hardcoding. Please contact us if you'd like to take a look at our reports and features and I'll be happy to give you a demo. Alysha Jettis 1-888-211-5924 [email protected]

04-07-2003, 10:10 AM	#14
ZoiNk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 2,370	Ask your sponsor for hardcoded tours. Best way to avoid this. I use several sponsors that use it, or I go and set it up manually with them. Gives you a shitload more sales, esp from the bookmarkers. ZoiNk __________________ "People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black." - Henry Ford

04-07-2003, 10:35 AM	#15
Darren Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,994	www.mensniche.com does what u do, it tracks via ip and cookie for 6 mnth __________________ Penis enlargement / male enhancement pills - earn up to $229.48 per signup ICQ: 46335817

04-07-2003, 11:00 AM	#17
besterman Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 623	most cookies last 3 days and the browser has a cookie cache per processor of 20 (if your surfer is hyperactive and visists more than 20 diff affiliated sites, anymore will drop off and you get no credit - minor issue I think). Alternatively create your own join link with the code embedded..

04-07-2003, 11:05 AM	#18
JimW Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 422	yep hardcoding is the way to go, especially with surfers not having their browser accepting cookies, especially in windows xp. plus the firewalls out there that won't accept cookies.