Originally Posted by PR_Glen (Post 20256024)

how did climate change become a partisan issue?

peoples sense of self importance around here is so revealing it's not funny. If you can keep your property and block clean of pollution and garbage you've just done as much good as you are ever going to do for the environment and this planet. Plant a tree or two and you are leading the pack, anything beyond that you are just jerking off because you have no control over anything beyond that... and none of us ever will.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20256061)

it's so easy to do and add in that a major way to make a difference re: carbon is to not buy new cars.

this is why it's truly nutty that gfyers are arguing about carbon, telling others how wrong they are, while buying new chevy volts. that's bizzarro!

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20256061)

it's so easy to do and add in that a major way to make a difference re: carbon is to not buy new cars.

this is why it's truly nutty that gfyers are arguing about carbon, telling others how wrong they are, while buying new chevy volts. that's bizzarro!

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 20256484)

I think an apology is in order for all the Volt drivers here on GFY.
We know it runs on "free non-polluting electricity":1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

Mark I don't "hate" Al Gore. I think he's smart. And he has more scientific data in front of him than you and Crockett will EVER see. He has the money and the power to know what is really going on.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

I'm just saying to you...IF it's true, then why is his response to it just a way to make himself a billionaire?

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

And Pres. Obama has even more data and resources at his disposal. Is he mobilizing the country? No.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

And by the way, when I say "the US is creating more CO2"...I'm talking about the Federal Govt. and the military.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

Also on your comment about the EPA. Yes, the EPA DID it's job.
But now it is overreaching and actually creating LAW and calling it "regulations". That is unconstitutional. Only Congress can pass federal law.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

The EPA does need to be abolished. Like every other bureaucracy it has grown over it's limit and now exists mainly to feed itself and continue to get funding.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255931)

It needs to be shut down and a smaller more efficient organization put in it's place. It's obsolete. This isn't 1970. It's 2014. And the EPA is causing more harm to our country than any "good" it may be doing in this day and age.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255935)

As long as it's a Democrat making the money right?

If it's the Koch brothers or anyone not affiliated with the Democrat party in the U.S., then they are obviously greedy bastards who don't care.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255935)

So guys like Al Gore...it's okay for them to make billions of dollars while the planet is supposedly dying?

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255935)

You see...that's where you show that you aren't able to look at this with an unbiased view.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255935)

You tend to dismiss any wrong from one Team (the Dems) and attack fervently every wrong of the other "team" (Republicans)

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255935)

I'm telling you...they are both of the same cloth. Interested in nothing but power and money.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20256061)

it's so easy to do and add in that a major way to make a difference re: carbon is to not buy new cars.

this is why it's truly nutty that gfyers are arguing about carbon, telling others how wrong they are, while buying new chevy volts. that's bizzarro!

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 20256484)

I think an apology is in order for all the Volt drivers here on GFY.
We know it runs on "free non-polluting electricity":1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20256548)

I am not the one bringing up Al Gore all the time, you are. Why not forget Al Gore completely


Ok, fine - now - forget Al Gore already... lets boil the issues down to scientific cause and effect. No politics. Agreed?

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20260477)

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20260493)

crockett, I have no idea who that guy is. I just googled for a history of the Earth's temps.

I don't give a damn about who the guy is. The question is...is the graph accurate? Or is it false?

Can you show me a graph of the earth's actual global temps over the last few thousand years?

I'd like to see it. I didn't go out of my way to find any "religious nut". Why would I? I think anybody who believes in religion is a "nut". lol

Educate me. Show me a graph of actual global temperatures and let's see how wrong that guy is.

Also, in the post above that one, I posted the actual amount that global temp has risen in 100 years. 1 and one-half degrees total.
You are posting that CBS is reporting this is the hottest in recorded history. And yet everything I see when I look up global temperature says otherwise.

Show me the stats. I'd like to look at them too. :)

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20260592)

Robbie, yes it does matter. The guy basis his global stats by what he thinks the bible tells him. It's a joke and shows that you will just pick anything that shows what you want to see.

The fact is you will not pick to death anything you disagree with, like Al Gore for example, when I've shown you actual scientific data from NOHAA for example in other past topics you always explain it away with your theories.. Yet you are willing to just accept a graph from some religious nut job with out even verifying it as fact.

The simple fact is you constantly ignore published scientific data as hearsay and Al Gore brain washing because you don't agree with it. Yet you willingly accept this kind of stuff with out even checking on it and post it as if it were fact.

Also as far as the amount of change.. That 1 and a half degrees in a "global average" that means in some places it's more and that "more" is in the Arctic as the temperature has risen by nearly double what the global average is and it will continue to rise at a faster rate than the rest of the Earth.

This is all stuff that is easy to find.. NOHAA has global records since the 1800s global records were taken. EPA and various scientific groups have global tempeture further back from studies of ice cores and so forth.. It's all out there and not hard to find and it's been posted before but you always ignore it.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20256560)

Hmmm... just about. Our electricity comes from Hydro, which is a renewable source of energy. And it's also cheap - it costs me only $1.18 worth of electricity for every 70 kilometres. So far I have driven 4515 kilometres at a total cost of $64.50. If this had been my Camaro, the cost would have been $80.00 per 350 Kilometers, or a total cost of $1032.00.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20256560)

I do not tell others they are wrong about the choices they make - I complain about republican lawmakers who seem to dismiss science. I also argue the points. If someone says something interesting (like Robby) I will take the time to Google things before posting a reply.

Threads like this are fun and informative because I look at each one as a challenge. If someone says "This is happening and here's why", I'll Google it, read about it, and try to learn it. And whenever anyone proves me wrong (which happens often I would add), I am humbled by it.

You on the other hand, just toss in the same old crap into these endless GFY conversations because its all you care to do.

I talk alot about reducing pollution, saving energy and trying to be a little more green. I sold my Camaro because I hated it, and hated the cost of gas, and hated the oil companies's and their apperent disrespect for their customers and the environment. Had I not done it I would be a hypocrite, and an unhappy one.

Today, I enjoy getting data from my car and trying to squeeze every electron out of the battery to get where I want to go. It's fun to me. And it also happens to be a nice car that I am much happier with than I was with my Camaro.

You can't fathom this for some reason, so you just toss in an insult to me, then pat yourself on your back. Big man Dyna Mo.

But since you brought it up: The Chevy Camaro costs about 9 tonnes of CO2e to build. The gasoline it comsumes over time is the biggest contributor to CO2 as well as other damage to the environment. 8,887 grams of CO2 / gallon of gasoline =8.887 × 10-3 metric tons CO2/gallon of gasoline.

As I said earlier, I have driven 4515 Kilometers since June, or 2805 Miles, or about 701 Miles per month. This translates into 6.60342 Tons of CO2 per year. After about this time next year, the purchase of my Volt would have paid for itself in Carbon emissions.

Also, your insult to me would be moot to anyone who made an electric car as their first purchase, or replaced their gas car with electric after it had been totalled in an accident.

So, do you want to insult me for upgrading my car? Sure, if that's all you can do...




Hmmm... just about. Our electricity comes from Hydro, which is a renewable source of energy. And it's also cheap - it costs me only $1.18 worth of electricity for every 70 kilometres. So far I have driven 4515 kilometres at a total cost of $64.50. If this had been my Camaro, the cost would have been $80.00 per 350 Kilometers, or a total cost of $1032.00.

Sources: Carbon dioxide emission footprint calculator and offset estimator

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 20251942)

ah fuck it, let me rub your idiot nose in it now instead:
http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/octob.../#.VDvXRhbtC-I

"""""The cold waters of Earth?s deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005""""

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20255365)

Mark the air is cleaner now than at any time in the last 100 years.

The military just today released more CO2 AND real pollution into the air than every car in the U.S. combined.

The only person "stuck" in a way of thinking is you. You keep presenting "facts" that simply aren't accurate and acting like it's "okay" for the govt. to continue to do exactly what you are claiming is "bad" for citizens to do.

Look, either CO2 is "bad" or it isn't. Either global warming is caused by man and is the biggest thing facing mankind...or it isn't.

Apparently, Al Gore uses it to make money on "carbon trading" and the Federal Govt. of the United States has followed suit with "carbon tax".
And meanwhile the U.S. does NOTHING to stop CO2 emissions and instead are the greatest contributor to them.

How in the hell does that make me a "50's era" thinking person? I'm just pointing out the real world to you.
You seem to be ignoring that and instead going with what I believe is a false narrative from a political party and the scientists that receive money and funding from the individuals and companies that profit from alarmists rhetoric.

If there is REALLY a problem...then let me know when something is being done by the govt. that doesn't have anything to do with profit.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 20260860)

Here are some graphs from non nut jobs....


http://www.oarval.org/Foster_20k.jpg



http://cache.backpackinglight.com/ba...7235_05417.jpg




http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graph...-10000-new.png




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Change.svg.png




http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~dennis/O18_500K.gif






:2 cents:

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20261044)

You might not understand the idea behind global warming. It is based on humans releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere then it can deal with in a reasonable time frame. This CO2 is trapping heat. Humans have only been doing this for a few hundred years at best/worst. so getting a few million years of data is not really significant of anything.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 20260860)

Here are some graphs from non nut jobs....


http://www.oarval.org/Foster_20k.jpg



http://cache.backpackinglight.com/ba...7235_05417.jpg




http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graph...-10000-new.png




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Change.svg.png




http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~dennis/O18_500K.gif






:2 cents:

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20260453)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/2014-is-...ear-on-record/

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 20261093)

I understand the idea perfectly. But what you might not understand is that the earth has warmed and cooled many many times over it's life, and it will continue to do so whether we dump CO2 into the atmosphere or not. The warming and cooling over the last 15,000 years alone is FAR more extreme than anything that we have gone through, and there were no SUV's driving around back then.

Carefully note the first graph:

http://www.oarval.org/Foster_20k.jpg

Do you notice all of those MUCH more extreme changes over the last few thousand years that had nothing to do with Human CO2 emissions?


The only thing we should be focused on is dealing with the inevitable climate change and adapting to it's affects, because we can't stop it. If we were all forced to stop producing CO2 tomorrow, (and after the subsequent destruction of most of the wealth on the planet and the starvation of billions), the climate would KEEP ON CHANGING, and doing things that reduce wealth and the ability to produce new technology will actually hurt our chances of adapting and surviving those changes.



:2 cents:

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20261279)

I unlike Robbie am not thinking the govt will save us.

.....Honestly I don't even worry about this. i am more then likely dead by the time any serious shit happens. It just seems crappy to dump it on my kids. It also seems really weird to deny it.

Originally Posted by PR_Glen (Post 20256024)

peoples sense of self importance around here is so revealing it's not funny. If you can keep your property and block clean of pollution and garbage you've just done as much good as you are ever going to do for the environment and this planet. Plant a tree or two and you are leading the pack, anything beyond that you are just jerking off because you have no control over anything beyond that... and none of us ever will.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20261279)

It just seems crappy to dump it on my kids. It also seems really weird to deny it.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20261292)

I'd disagree. Planting a tree or two is a great start and I myself plan to do just that next spring. But you have more power than that. You can choose where you get your energy from. You can join groups and demand that those energy companies conform to pollution control laws. You effect change with your vote, how much energy you consume, and even with the food you buy. Car pooling, taking the bus, or even riding your bike all help to make a difference too.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20260947)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

did you practice all that in the mirror first?

I didn't insult you **********, you're the one the got insulted over my pointing out a simple fact- you run around here pointing your finger at others for their carbon footprint while you buy 2 brand new cars in a couple years dumping 30+ fucking tons of carbon on the rest of us.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20260947)

and lol at you patting yourself on the back now for googling shit when just a few posts ago you were lambasting the rest of us for googling when you say google is responsible for dispensing bullshit infos.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20260947)

not sure who you are trying to bullshit with your bullshit about being humble. if you had 1 fucking iota of humility you'd stop posting your biased fingerpointing bullshit.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20260947)

and you are also bullshitting yourself, not me, about your fucking volt paying for itself in carbon emissions, you completely fail to understand that 20 tons of carbon you dumped on the rest of us was just the manufacturing costs of carbon. wait till your fucking batteries need to be disposed too..then add some more ********** pollution to the world.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20260947)

you= problem, not even part of the solution.

Originally Posted by EonBlue (Post 20260940)

Sorry, you don't get off that easy.

Hydroelectric power's dirty secret revealed

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20261316)

By selling my previous car, I prevented the sale of a new one.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20261044)

You might not understand the idea behind global warming. It is based on humans releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere then it can deal with in a reasonable time frame. This CO2 is trapping heat. Humans have only been doing this for a few hundred years at best/worst. so getting a few million years of data is not really significant of anything.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20260947)

wait till your fucking batteries need to be disposed too..then add some more ********** pollution to the world.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 20261297)

I'm not denying that it's happening, however I don't think that humans are causing it, AND I think that the driving forces behind the "climate change" movement do NOT have our kids best interests at heart. What they are after is control. Planet wide and total control. Under the guise of "saving" us from our selves, (i.e anthropomorphic global warming), they will try take over control of every aspect of our lives, markets associations, movements and business. I will teach my child to be fiercely protective of his freedom, and not buy into the BS of giving government more and more control in order to "save him" from something that has been happening forever on earth.



.:2 cents:


.

Originally Posted by Jel (Post 20261333)

say whaaa? :helpme

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 20261093)

I understand the idea perfectly. But what you might not understand is that the earth has warmed and cooled many many times over it's life, and it will continue to do so whether we dump CO2 into the atmosphere or not. The warming and cooling over the last 15,000 years alone is FAR more extreme than anything that we have gone through, and there were no SUV's driving around back then.

Carefully note the first graph:

http://www.oarval.org/Foster_20k.jpg

Do you notice all of those MUCH more extreme changes over the last few thousand years that had nothing to do with Human CO2 emissions?


The only thing we should be focused on is dealing with the inevitable climate change and adapting to it's affects, because we can't stop it. If we were all forced to stop producing CO2 tomorrow, (and after the subsequent destruction of most of the wealth on the planet and the starvation of billions), the climate would KEEP ON CHANGING, and doing things that reduce wealth and the ability to produce new technology will actually hurt our chances of adapting and surviving those changes.



:2 cents:

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20261352)

And another thing, asshole :



Batteries are made from rare earth elements. Mining for thousands of tons of rare earth elements a year does not compare with mining for billions of tons of coal a year. From an environmental and health perspective, the amount of heavy metals, like mercury, uranium and thorium, emitted from burning coal in the U.S. alone exceeds by a thousand times the total amount of lithium and rare earth elements mined in the entire world.

You can read the entire report here: http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pu...13/mcs2013.pdf

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20261518)

What is argued is that in the past it took thousands of years to do these extreme changes with the few exceptions of massive volcano which changed global temperatures.

What is being argued, is that "we" are the massive volcano as we have replaced a natural phenomenon and caused it to speed up dramatically.

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20261518)

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20261522)

We have "warmed up" by one and a half degrees in the last 100 years. That isn't an "extreme change" and it didn't happen almost instantaneously as some climate changes have.

The "Little Ice Age" didn't take "thousands of years" to happen. It happened within a decade and decimated mankind.
The warm up era (when it was much warmer than it is now), helped lead to the Renaissance and the end of the Dark Ages as people were no longer starving and freezing to death.

Come on man, think about it for a second. Really think about it. I know you've made up your mind, but for God's sake....history is right at your fingertips to read about this stuff.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20261352)

And another thing

In fact, 98% of the materials in batteries can be recovered (vs glass at 38% for example).

Originally Posted by Jel (Post 20261289)

way to misquote (well, just make up something about) someone.

In the same spirit, I'll be sure to post in other threads on this subject how you don't care about any of this stuff as you'll be dead by the time any serious shit happens. :thumbsup

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 20261297)

I'm not denying that it's happening, however I don't think that humans are causing it, AND I think that the driving forces behind the "climate change" movement do NOT have our kids best interests at heart. What they are after is control. Planet wide and total control. Under the guise of "saving" us from our selves, (i.e anthropomorphic global warming), they will try take over control of every aspect of our lives, markets associations, movements and business. I will teach my child to be fiercely protective of his freedom, and not buy into the BS of giving government more and more control in order to "save him" from something that has been happening forever on earth.



.:2 cents:


.

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20261518)

No one has ever argued that the earth hasn't warmed or cooled. What is argued is that in the past it took thousands of years to do these extreme changes with the few exceptions of massive volcano which changed global temperatures.

What is being argued, is that "we" are the massive volcano as we have replaced a natural phenomenon and caused it to speed up dramatically. That is what "man made climate change means". I don't know why it's so hard for you guys to understand tthat very basic principle.

also btw.. I also found a chart.. it seems a bit different than yours...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Comparison.png

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20261589)

crockett, I see what you are saying.

I'm arguing that a volcano is "normal" (unfortunately) if there IS any "normal" in the earth.

Scientists believe there were actually 4 pretty big volcanoes around the world that erupted leading to the "little ice age".
Matter of fact they believe the eruptions lasted for FIFTY years.

Not sure what the human lifespan was back then...but I'm guessing nowhere even close to 50 years. So the medieval crockett could have been born, lived his life, and died without ever knowing anything BUT an Earth that didn't have as much sunlight reaching it.
That medieval crockett would have thought that was "normal". :)

Also take a look at this:
http://en.es-static.us/upl/2012/01/Sunspot_Numbers.png

The point I'm making is...there is definitely enough historical evidence to show that nature itself has caused climate change DRASTICALLY at times. At other times it has been a slower process and at other times it has happened at about the rate it does now.

In other words...the Earth does what it wants, when it wants.

Do I think that mankind could change things enough to endanger ourselves (not the Earth)?
Yeah.
I think we could have every nation on Earth fire off all their nuclear missiles and fuck shit up really bad.

Do I believe that CO2 emissions are doing anything?
Well, they MIGHT have helped raise the Earth's temp by 1 and 1/2 degrees over the last 100 years.
How much of that 1 and 1/2 degrees is mankind is up for debate. Maybe we caused 50% of that ourselves over what the Earth was going to do anyway? Who knows?
Not one scientist on the face of this Earth can answer that with absolute knowledge.

But let's say mankind DID cause 50% of it. That would be 3/4's of one degree temp change caused by all of mankind.

I don't think that's enough to warrant carbon taxing, carbon trading, and alarmist's trying to change our entire society, culture, and lifestyle while THEY (the leaders of the alarmists) continue to live the same exact way they are telling us NOT to live.

Surely you can see why myself and so many people are skeptical (and rightly so), especially after all the "sky is falling" alarmist's predictions that have turned out to be false in the last few decades.

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20261518)

No one has ever argued that the earth hasn't warmed or cooled. What is argued is that in the past it took thousands of years to do these extreme changes with the few exceptions of massive volcano which changed global temperatures.

What is being argued, is that "we" are the massive volcano as we have replaced a natural phenomenon and caused it to speed up dramatically. That is what "man made climate change means". I don't know why it's so hard for you guys to understand tthat very basic principle.

also btw.. I also found a chart.. it seems a bit different than yours...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Comparison.png

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20262049)

"then "yes" the govt.'s around the world would be acting on it (like our govt. did in WW2 when we had a REAL threat facing us)." That is what Robbie said. How did I misquote that?

And feel free to bring that up. I don't think any of the facts change if I am not passionate about them.