CNN: US Never Apologized or Admitted Shooting Down Iran Air Plane in 1988 - GoFuckYourself.com

MrTrollkien · 07-25-2014, 11:39 AM

Erin Burnett reported on other passenger airliners that have been shot down, focusing on the 1988 shooting down of an Iranian passenger airliner by the US Navy, killing all 274 on board.

The US government worked hard to cover up the event and later to justify it. Vice President George H.W. Bush said before the UN:

?I will never apologize for the United States ? I don?t care what the facts are.?

To this day, the US has still refused to apologize or to take responsibility for the deaths of 274 innocent people. Year later, the US agreed to pay $60 million to the families of the dead, without admitting responsibility.

Burnett compared the situation to the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over Ukraine last week. She then interviewed presidential worshipper and former advisor David Gergen who admitted that it was ?strikingly similar? to the MH17 events, but then tried to explain it was different because we were in the region to do good, unlike Putin?s involvement with events on Russia?s border.

The segment was an unusual one for CNN and especially for Erin Burnett, who rarely questions official US policy.

Watch it here:

http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/07/25/c...plane-in-1988/

theking · 07-25-2014, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTrollkien

Erin Burnett reported on other passenger airliners that have been shot down, focusing on the 1988 shooting down of an Iranian passenger airliner by the US Navy, killing all 274 on board.

The US government worked hard to cover up the event and later to justify it. Vice President George H.W. Bush said before the UN:

?I will never apologize for the United States ? I don?t care what the facts are.?

To this day, the US has still refused to apologize or to take responsibility for the deaths of 274 innocent people. Year later, the US agreed to pay $60 million to the families of the dead, without admitting responsibility.

Burnett compared the situation to the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over Ukraine last week. She then interviewed presidential worshipper and former advisor David Gergen who admitted that it was ?strikingly similar? to the MH17 events, but then tried to explain it was different because we were in the region to do good, unlike Putin?s involvement with events on Russia?s border.

The segment was an unusual one for CNN and especially for Erin Burnett, who rarely questions official US policy.

Watch it here:

http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/07/25/c...plane-in-1988/

Pretty much pigshit.

mikesouth · 07-25-2014, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Pretty much pigshit.

Actually no it isnt

July 19, 2014
When the U.S. Navy Shot Down a Civilian Airliner
Dale Steinreich

Fox News keeps playing Ronald Reagan?s indignant response to the Soviets shooting down Korean Air Lines Flight 007 on September 1, 1983 and killing 269 passengers. (I just saw it again a few minutes ago on Jenine ?Bomb Them, Bomb Them, Keep Bombing Them, Bomb Them Again and Again? Pirro?s Justice show.) Reagan?s statement is supposedly a favorable contrast to Obama?s inept response to the recent shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. (Even a former progressive war blogger now turned Beltarian seems enraptured with the apotheosis of St. Reagan.)

Down the Memory Hole is Iran Air Flight 655, shot down by the USS Vincennes on July 3, 1988. The Airbus A300 was flying in Iranian airspace and the Vincennes was sitting in Iranian waters. A total of 290 passengers (including 66 children) were killed.

Vincennes was known in the Navy as ?Robo Cruiser,? a ship under the aggressive command of Captain Will Rogers III who, along with his crew, seemed to like to menace and shoot just about anything that moved.

Reagan?s contemptuous initial response to reporters: ?Understandable?Ever been in combat?? he angrily snapped. Later on Reagan from Camp David:

We deeply regret any loss of life. The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces. When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack.

Navy Commander David Carlson, in charge of the USS Sides in the Gulf that day, begged to differ with Reagan on just about every detail. In the September 1989 Naval Institute Proceedings, Carlson wrote:

When the decision was made to shoot down the Airbus, the airliner was climbing, not diving; it was showing the proper identification friend-or-foe (IFF Mode III); and it was in the correct flight corridor from Bandar Abbas to Dubai?The Vincennes was never under attack by Iranian aircraft?There was no coordinated attack involving the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps boats and Iranian military forces.

Having watched the performance of the Vincennes for a month before the incident, my impression was clearly that an atmosphere of restraint was not her long suit?Her actions appeared to be consistently aggressive, and had become a topic of wardroom conversation??Robo Cruiser? was the unamusing nickname that someone jokingly came up with for her, and it stuck.

At the time, the Navy asserted that Revolutionary Guard gunboats attacked the Vincennes first, but Carlson revealed that the Vincennes sought permission to open fire on them, a protocol unnecessary if the ship had already been under actual attack.

Unlike the South Koreans and Korean Air Lines Flight 007, Iranians never received an apology from the U.S. government for the killing of 254 Iranians and 36 others on Iran Air Flight 655. Nevertheless, U.S. taxpayers apparently got a bill for $132 million in compensation the U.S. paid to Iran to make Iran?s suit against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice go away.

EddyTheDog · 07-25-2014, 11:58 AM

'America did it first' - When Iran nuke Israel that will their defence as well - It is always the same...

I remember being told off at school for saying 'but Simon did it first' - I was six but still understood why it was a poor excuse.....

theking · 07-25-2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Actually no it isnt

July 19, 2014
When the U.S. Navy Shot Down a Civilian Airliner
Dale Steinreich

Fox News keeps playing Ronald Reagan?s indignant response to the Soviets shooting down Korean Air Lines Flight 007 on September 1, 1983 and killing 269 passengers. (I just saw it again a few minutes ago on Jenine ?Bomb Them, Bomb Them, Keep Bombing Them, Bomb Them Again and Again? Pirro?s Justice show.) Reagan?s statement is supposedly a favorable contrast to Obama?s inept response to the recent shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. (Even a former progressive war blogger now turned Beltarian seems enraptured with the apotheosis of St. Reagan.)

Down the Memory Hole is Iran Air Flight 655, shot down by the USS Vincennes on July 3, 1988. The Airbus A300 was flying in Iranian airspace and the Vincennes was sitting in Iranian waters. A total of 290 passengers (including 66 children) were killed.

Vincennes was known in the Navy as ?Robo Cruiser,? a ship under the aggressive command of Captain Will Rogers III who, along with his crew, seemed to like to menace and shoot just about anything that moved.

Reagan?s contemptuous initial response to reporters: ?Understandable?Ever been in combat?? he angrily snapped. Later on Reagan from Camp David:

We deeply regret any loss of life. The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces. When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack.

Navy Commander David Carlson, in charge of the USS Sides in the Gulf that day, begged to differ with Reagan on just about every detail. In the September 1989 Naval Institute Proceedings, Carlson wrote:

When the decision was made to shoot down the Airbus, the airliner was climbing, not diving; it was showing the proper identification friend-or-foe (IFF Mode III); and it was in the correct flight corridor from Bandar Abbas to Dubai?The Vincennes was never under attack by Iranian aircraft?There was no coordinated attack involving the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps boats and Iranian military forces.

Having watched the performance of the Vincennes for a month before the incident, my impression was clearly that an atmosphere of restraint was not her long suit?Her actions appeared to be consistently aggressive, and had become a topic of wardroom conversation??Robo Cruiser? was the unamusing nickname that someone jokingly came up with for her, and it stuck.

At the time, the Navy asserted that Revolutionary Guard gunboats attacked the Vincennes first, but Carlson revealed that the Vincennes sought permission to open fire on them, a protocol unnecessary if the ship had already been under actual attack.

Unlike the South Koreans and Korean Air Lines Flight 007, Iranians never received an apology from the U.S. government for the killing of 254 Iranians and 36 others on Iran Air Flight 655. Nevertheless, U.S. taxpayers apparently got a bill for $132 million in compensation the U.S. paid to Iran to make Iran?s suit against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice go away.

Reread..."pretty much" pigshit.

Robbie · 07-25-2014, 12:02 PM

The hypocrisy of our Federal Govt. is obscene.

I can only hope that people in the world realize that "we the people" of the United States are pretty much kept in the dark by our govt. on most of the shady shit they do.

And if anybody tries to tell us what's going on (Edward Snowden for instance) the govt. brands them a traitor and the media does their bidding to make sure that public opinion follows what the govt. wants.

I just hope that people from other countries realize that the actual citizens of the U.S. are not represented by the crooked politicians and bureaucrats with all their spying and killing and lying.

Barry-xlovecam · 07-25-2014, 12:07 PM

How the other half remembers Reagan ... Talking out of the side of his mouth.

Reagan is not my icon of American foreign policy. That said, he was taking a nap when it happened probably (as usual).

MaDalton · 07-25-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Reread..."pretty much" pigshit.

please explain why...

theking · 07-25-2014, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

please explain why...

Even though there "may not" have ever been an official public apology from our President or Secretary of State...our culpability was all over the news...with many apologists from government...military...as well as private organizations.

I also highly suspect that our President or Secretary of State...privately apologized.

MaDalton · 07-25-2014, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Even though there "may not" have ever been an official public apology from our President or Secretary of State...our culpability was all over the news...with many apologists from government...military...as well as private organizations.

I also highly suspect that our President or Secretary of State...privately apologized.

using that logic you can also claim that Hitler privately apologized to the jews

theking · 07-25-2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

using that logic you can also claim that Hitler privately apologized to the jews

Pigshit...I made no claim and your analogy is not at all applicable. In other words there is not any use of logic in your post...which is a bit unusual for you.

bushwacker · 07-25-2014, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Reread..."pretty much" pigshit.

Oh look the fake soldier is in here.

MaDalton · 07-25-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Pigshit...I made no claim and your analogy is not at all applicable. In other words there is not any use of logic in your post...which is a bit unusual for you.

ok, then let me say it this way - you suspect they apologized privately, i suspect they didn't

but that actually doesn't make the current situation any better - just more childish

BFT3K · 07-25-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The hypocrisy of our Federal Govt. is obscene.

I can only hope that people in the world realize that "we the people" of the United States are pretty much kept in the dark by our govt. on most of the shady shit they do.

And if anybody tries to tell us what's going on (Edward Snowden for instance) the govt. brands them a traitor and the media does their bidding to make sure that public opinion follows what the govt. wants.

I just hope that people from other countries realize that the actual citizens of the U.S. are not represented by the crooked politicians and bureaucrats with all their spying and killing and lying.

Yup

theking · 07-25-2014, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushwacker

Oh look the fake soldier is in here.

Pigshit. I usually try not to respond to ignorant trolls but you frequently try to get me to give you some attention...so I will correct you. I am not a soldier and have not been a soldier for about 22 years. You are now dismissed.

theking · 07-25-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

ok, then let me say it this way - you suspect they apologized privately, i suspect they didn't

but that actually doesn't make the current situation any better - just more childish

If they haven't...I will agree. Just know this about Governments as much...if not more...is said and done without the public ever knowing. I know for a fact this is the case with my Government...because I am aware of the use of our military in the past and even currently...that the public is unaware of and more than likely will never be made aware of.

MaDalton · 07-25-2014, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The hypocrisy of our Federal Govt. is obscene.

I can only hope that people in the world realize that "we the people" of the United States are pretty much kept in the dark by our govt. on most of the shady shit they do.

And if anybody tries to tell us what's going on (Edward Snowden for instance) the govt. brands them a traitor and the media does their bidding to make sure that public opinion follows what the govt. wants.

I just hope that people from other countries realize that the actual citizens of the U.S. are not represented by the crooked politicians and bureaucrats with all their spying and killing and lying.

we get sometimes irritated by the "'Merica, fuck yeah" and "nuke them" comments but in general I think people can differentiate between people and politics

at least the smart ones

Dvae · 07-25-2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

How the other half remembers Reagan ... Talking out of the side of his mouth.

Reagan is not my icon of American foreign policy. That said, he was taking a nap when it happened probably (as usual).

Starting with Carter which one would be?
As we all know Carter was a real genius with foreign policy.

Rochard · 07-25-2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

We deeply regret any loss of life. The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces. When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack.

I don't remember much about this incident really, but I feel a bit better now. From that statement it seems the U.S.S. Vincennes was already under attack and a plane was heading for it.... At that point it's kill or be killed.

MaDalton · 07-25-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't remember much about this incident really, but I feel a bit better now. From that statement it seems the U.S.S. Vincennes was already under attack and a plane was heading for it.... At that point it's kill or be killed.

i'm afraid you have to read again

Rochard · 07-25-2014, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i'm afraid you have to read again

Okay, let's read it again. I'll even shorten it.

"The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces."

The boat was engaged in combat against five boats and a plane was heading right for the ship.

Did I miss something?

Reading about it on Wikipedia seems to confirm this... A helicopter from the ship had taken small arms fire, and the U.S.S. Vincennes was pursuing the five ships involved. In fact, the U.S.S. Vincennes violated Omani waters to do so, and then entered into Iranian waters.

The U.S.S. Vincennes attempted to contact the plane ten times on two different frequencies and got no response.

Sorry, a US warship was engaged in naval combat, and a plane who failed to respond to attempts to contact it.... Sorry, at that point you open fire. You are already under fire and a plane is coming in so you shoot it.

dyna mo · 07-25-2014, 02:12 PM

Sorry guys!

Fucj, feel better now, jeez, like a sorry helps .

theking · 07-25-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Okay, let's read it again. I'll even shorten it.

"The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces."

The boat was engaged in combat against five boats and a plane was heading right for the ship.

Did I miss something?

Reading about it on Wikipedia seems to confirm this... A helicopter from the ship had taken small arms fire, and the U.S.S. Vincennes was pursuing the five ships involved. In fact, the U.S.S. Vincennes violated Omani waters to do so, and then entered into Iranian waters.

The U.S.S. Vincennes attempted to contact the plane ten times on two different frequencies and got no response.

Sorry, a US warship was engaged in naval combat, and a plane who failed to respond to attempts to contact it.... Sorry, at that point you open fire. You are already under fire and a plane is coming in so you shoot it.

That is pretty much it...except as I recall events...the ship was in a location that it was not supposed to be in...the fault of the Captain...and the crew tracking the airliner fucked up...and was providing incorrect information to the Captain. If the Captain would have not put his ship in the location that it was and the tracking crew had not fucked up they would have known that it was a commercial aircraft and it would not have been shot down. The "fog of war" so to speak.

WDF · 07-25-2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

...............Nevertheless, U.S. taxpayers apparently got a bill for $132 million in compensation the U.S. paid to Iran to make Iran?s suit against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice go away.

Not to sound insensitive but that seems like 132 million apologies.

I am sorry so many of you are hung up on a few words, 26 years after the fact in this case.

Those words won't bring back the dead, help survivors with their grief, or make a bit of difference to the families, then or now.

Any apologizing should be done to those that suffered a loss, not some politicians.

Saying the Americans did it first or before is neither a justification or an excuse.

Remember when you were a child and you were asked if your best friend jumped off a bridge would you do it also.

Trying to justify any event based on a past mistake of another just does not work.

You are acknowledging it is wrong but because someone else did it you should be excused, REALLY?

Try that the next time you get pulled over for a traffic violation.

MaDalton · 07-25-2014, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Okay, let's read it again. I'll even shorten it.

"The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces."

The boat was engaged in combat against five boats and a plane was heading right for the ship.

Did I miss something?

Reading about it on Wikipedia seems to confirm this... A helicopter from the ship had taken small arms fire, and the U.S.S. Vincennes was pursuing the five ships involved. In fact, the U.S.S. Vincennes violated Omani waters to do so, and then entered into Iranian waters.

The U.S.S. Vincennes attempted to contact the plane ten times on two different frequencies and got no response.

Sorry, a US warship was engaged in naval combat, and a plane who failed to respond to attempts to contact it.... Sorry, at that point you open fire. You are already under fire and a plane is coming in so you shoot it.

Quote:

When the decision was made to shoot down the Airbus, the airliner was climbing, not diving; it was showing the proper identification friend-or-foe (IFF Mode III); and it was in the correct flight corridor from Bandar Abbas to Dubai?The Vincennes was never under attack by Iranian aircraft?There was no coordinated attack involving the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps boats and Iranian military forces.

^^^^^^^^^

i seriously can't believe that anyone can excuse shooting down a commercial airplane with civilian people on board - today and back then - and i don't fucking care which side shot it down.

what is wrong with you people?

theking · 07-25-2014, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

^^^^^^^^^

i seriously can't believe that anyone can excuse shooting down a commercial airplane with civilian people on board - today and back then - and i don't fucking care which side shot it down.

what is wrong with you people?

It was not known by the Captain of the ship to be a commercial airliner at the time it was shot down. He was given misinformation by his crew and that information given to him demanded that he follow SOP and order it shot down. It was a mistake...and has always been a mistake every time an airliner has been shot down...no matter what country was did the shooting.

Barry-xlovecam · 07-25-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

Starting with Carter which one would be?
As we all know Carter was a real genius with foreign policy.

I will never allude to the brilliance of the Carter/Brzezinski foreign policy other than to say they could play duelling idiots with the Regan/Baker foreign policy guys. Really, those fools set us up for the current mess we are in: With Iraq, Iran, Osama and his al-Qaeda, the Oslo Accords and what has followed. There hasn't been a US foreign policy success since Truman -- and he's the one to let the atomic weapon genie out of the bottle -- some success ...

Rochard · 07-25-2014, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

That is pretty much it...except as I recall events...the ship was in a location that it was not supposed to be in...the fault of the Captain...and the crew tracking the airliner fucked up...and was providing incorrect information to the Captain. If the Captain would have not put his ship in the location that it was and the tracking crew had not fucked up they would have known that it was a commercial aircraft and it would not have been shot down. The "fog of war" so to speak.

The ship had violated the territorial waters of two countries. However, once bullets are flying, the concept of "territorial waters" goes straight out the water and is irrelevant.

_Richard_ · 07-25-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I will never allude to the brilliance of the Carter/Brzezinski foreign policy other than to say they could play duelling idiots with the Regan/Baker foreign policy guys. Really, those fools set us up for the current mess we are in: With Iraq, Iran, Osama and his al-Qaeda, the Oslo Accords and what has followed. There hasn't been a US foreign policy success since Truman -- and he's the one to let the atomic weapon genie out of the bottle -- some success ...

mmm.. and it was kissinger who spoke with putin 'for some time' before hillary dropped off the 'reset button' to putin after obama was being elected.

which, is greatly disturbing.

Rochard · 07-25-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

^^^^^^^^^

i seriously can't believe that anyone can excuse shooting down a commercial airplane with civilian people on board - today and back then - and i don't fucking care which side shot it down.

what is wrong with you people?

This was a warship under attack, bullets are flying, a plane is coming in and they are failing to respond, it was assumed to be an attack - so they shot it.

I'm sorry, this is tragic, but they sent out ten requests over two emergency channels and the plane didn't respond.

Barry-xlovecam · 07-25-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

mmm.. and it was kissinger who spoke with putin 'for some time' before hillary dropped off the 'reset button' to putin after obama was being elected.

which, is greatly disturbing.

Don't even get me started on Nixon and Kissinger and the whole "Peace with Dignity" soap opera of the Vietnam war "peace talks." That bad joke that cost a lot of lives ... Kissinger a distinguished former great statesman my ass.

_Richard_ · 07-25-2014, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Don't even get me started on Nixon and Kissinger and the whole "Peace with Dignity" soap opera of the Vietnam war "peace talks." That bad joke that cost a lot of lives ... Kissinger a distinguished former great statesman my ass.

well.. if he is talking to putin before the current US administration did.. what.. were they talking about?

is he a 'former statesman'?

Barry-xlovecam · 07-25-2014, 04:58 PM

Piloting a civilian plane in a declared war zone like the Gulf was during the "tanker wars" is very foolish. And fools get hurt usually ... MH17 had no business being over Eastern Ukraine when there was an insurgent shooting war going on.

A pilot is responsible for the safety of his aircraft. If the flight controllers insisted; over the pilot's objections, that he fly over a "war zone" then the air-controllers should be criminally culpable in the deaths of 298 people.

Barry-xlovecam · 07-25-2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

well.. if he is talking to putin before the current US administration did.. what.. were they talking about?

is he a 'former statesman'?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/crimes-...d-free/5358322

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tri...enry_Kissinger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger

Henry Kissinger was a reputed member of the Trilateral Commission of world leaders scheming global economic and political manipulations. He was also the head of Nixon's NSA and later the US Secretary of State for Presidents Nixon and Ford.

They sent in the bag man or the front man, who knows. I am guessing Kissinger was acquainted with Colonel Putin of the Soviet KBG -- Putin's "pedigree."

07-25-2014, 11:39 AM	#1
MrTrollkien So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 2,360	CNN: US Never Apologized or Admitted Shooting Down Iran Air Plane in 1988 Erin Burnett reported on other passenger airliners that have been shot down, focusing on the 1988 shooting down of an Iranian passenger airliner by the US Navy, killing all 274 on board. The US government worked hard to cover up the event and later to justify it. Vice President George H.W. Bush said before the UN: ?I will never apologize for the United States ? I don?t care what the facts are.? To this day, the US has still refused to apologize or to take responsibility for the deaths of 274 innocent people. Year later, the US agreed to pay $60 million to the families of the dead, without admitting responsibility. Burnett compared the situation to the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over Ukraine last week. She then interviewed presidential worshipper and former advisor David Gergen who admitted that it was ?strikingly similar? to the MH17 events, but then tried to explain it was different because we were in the region to do good, unlike Putin?s involvement with events on Russia?s border. The segment was an unusual one for CNN and especially for Erin Burnett, who rarely questions official US policy. Watch it here: http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/07/25/c...plane-in-1988/

07-25-2014, 12:02 PM	#6
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	The hypocrisy of our Federal Govt. is obscene. I can only hope that people in the world realize that "we the people" of the United States are pretty much kept in the dark by our govt. on most of the shady shit they do. And if anybody tries to tell us what's going on (Edward Snowden for instance) the govt. brands them a traitor and the media does their bidding to make sure that public opinion follows what the govt. wants. I just hope that people from other countries realize that the actual citizens of the U.S. are not represented by the crooked politicians and bureaucrats with all their spying and killing and lying. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-25-2014, 12:07 PM	#7
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	How the other half remembers Reagan ... Talking out of the side of his mouth. Reagan is not my icon of American foreign policy. That said, he was taking a nap when it happened probably (as usual). Last edited by Barry-xlovecam; 07-25-2014 at 12:08 PM..

07-25-2014, 04:58 PM	#33
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Piloting a civilian plane in a declared war zone like the Gulf was during the "tanker wars" is very foolish. And fools get hurt usually ... MH17 had no business being over Eastern Ukraine when there was an insurgent shooting war going on. A pilot is responsible for the safety of his aircraft. If the flight controllers insisted; over the pilot's objections, that he fly over a "war zone" then the air-controllers should be criminally culpable in the deaths of 298 people.

07-25-2014, 11:58 AM	#4
EddyTheDog Just Doing My Own Thing Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London, Spain, New Zealand, GFY - Not Croydon... Posts: 25,277	'America did it first' - When Iran nuke Israel that will their defence as well - It is always the same... I remember being told off at school for saying 'but Simon did it first' - I was six but still understood why it was a poor excuse.....

07-25-2014, 02:12 PM	#22
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 66,171	Sorry guys! Fucj, feel better now, jeez, like a sorry helps .