I say ban children!

Just look at what happens! The little bastards grow up and start shooting up things.

Hell, some of them homicidal sociopaths even kill their own parents.

It about time that the parents of America come to realize that guns don't kill people children kill people!

Forced to choose - I'd sooner take my chances on Russian roulette with a drunk driver than a mentally deranged lunatic with 3 semi-automatic weapons and more than 400 rounds of ammo.

I don't see where at any place I said it could, I don't know enough about the guy to say anything about his medical history other than he was seeing multiple doctors and according to someone (I think the family lawyer or something like that) had been diagnosed with Aspergers, and that his parents and shrink had called the cops multiple times because they were worried he may be a threat to himself or others..

But even if this kid wasn't diagnosed with anything is meaninlgess, it doesn't explain why sane reasonable gun owners would oppose criminal and mental background checks for gun purchases.

Name one!

The odds are 1000's times greater that you will get the drunk driver; so in reality
you will not have to choose.

More people win the lottery than get shot in a mass shootings.

No one wants to punish law abiding gun owners. It's just common sense that someone with mental issues should not be allowed to own firearms.

It's far from common sense.

Although I tend to agree with your odds - I'm not talking of the odds of getting a drunk driver or lunatic shooter - I'm saying what I'd choose if forced to.

hmm...for a car you need a license with written and practical tests and insurance policy to operate. well regulated use across the country with local, state and national regulations. Interesting that you link cars and guns.

Did you really want to make that comparison?

the guy ran over and crippled a random skateboarder with his BMW in-between stabbing to death 3 of his friends in a grisly stabbing spree and shooting 3 people

Yeah but how loosely do you define "mental health issues". There's no way to pin that down. If you see a psychiatrist one time because you are depressed should you get your Second Amendment rights suspended? What about a long term patient who just wants to be happier in life. What about people in marriage counseling? What about a suicide attempt? What about mild schizophrenia? What about ADD? What about Borderline Personality Disorder? How the hell do you define "mental health issues"?

You are making mountains out of molehills here.

Should you have your Second Amendment rights taken away if you see a psychiatrist one time because you are depressed? Of course not. But if you sit there and discuss your hatred of women because they won't bang you maybe and you threaten them, perhaps we should. But long before that someone should speak to family members, friends, and co-workers to get a better feel of what's going on.

Marriage counseling doesn't even apply here. Nor does ADD.

mental health care is predicated on free speech. Moreover, talk therapy is based on saying whatever comes to mind, get it out of your system, don't worry about how you say, just get it out in talk therapy.

So that's what people do. Just like they do here, just like Rochard has done here when he's stated he'd kill, maim, torture various people, like the guys who kidnapped those 300 girls in Africa.

So if Rochard said that to his therapist, he'd soon get a knock on the door from the police and they will enter his premises like they do anyone they suspect has a gun, with their guns drawn and subduiing the perp while they take personal property.

How does one define any of this? How would "the authorities" police it? What you going to do- start a Cabinet level Bureau of Mental Health, fund it with billions of dollars and have them start investigations by speaking to the family members, friends and co-workers of every individual that has ever expressed some anti-social tendency? And then send SWAT teams to break into people's homes to confiscate their guns if they ever uttered the phrase "Bitches Ain't Shit But Hoes and Tricks"? You are just suggesting a bunch of loosey-goosey, ill-defined, non-specific nonsense that has no chance of ever being put into effect.

First step is - politicians must adopt a willingness - to do SOMETHING.

The status quo cannot...and must not continue.

Although I have my personal opinions - I don't profess to know the acceptable and tolerable answers. And even if I did - I'm in no position to make changes anyways. That's why we elect leaders who we hope will do...SOMETHING.

And so far - by their apathy, inaction and/or their refusal to make the hard decisions...those leaders have failed the victims, the families...we the people.

That's the whole crux of the issue. There is nothing to be done other than to pay some lip service to the problem to make frightened people feel better. Bad things sometimes happen randomly to innocent people. Crazy people will always exist. You can't legislate or regulate all the evil out of the world. People just want to feel like there is some way to control the world so that nothing bad will ever happen to them, but it's a fantasy.

They'll blame politicians or the NRA or President Obama, or the right-wing conservatives or some other boogeyman because it makes them feel better. It's all nonsense. Even if they tightened gun regulation or overhauled the mental health system in response to this incident, it wouldn't prevent a thing in the future or help anyone except give that one father of the slain boy who is in the news a job to busy himself with for the rest of his life and the illusion that something positive came out of this tragedy.

I'm no fan of guns but I have no problem with people owning whatever they like. My only 2 issues are these: (a) Background checks should be mandatory, tough, detailed and extensive. It should be as hard or harder to get a gun license than to get a drivers license. (b) That old freak Wayne Lapierre shouldn't be allowed to sell his shit as the solution to gun violence.

Thought-provoking response.

I really hope you're wrong.

But sadly, I suspect you're not.

Quoted for truth.

Yeah, 9-11 probably had something to do with that.
3000 dead in one day was probably a lot.

Australia.
Port Arthur Massacre was one of the worst mass shootings of all time. Martin Bryant still holds records for that one. Australia IMMEDIATELY had a buy back of all auto and semi auto weapons and gun access is greatly restricted. Gun crime immediately dropped and has stayed way down. Other violent crimes saw a rise but not by as much as what gun crime dropped.
You asked for one, there is one.

As soon as someone who shouldn't buy a gun is able to easily buy a gun, the gun people come out swinging and in a defensive posture. "Don't come take my guns..BLARG BLARG BLARG!!!"

You people always come from an indefensible argument. That argument being --- there should be no changes to the way people acquire guns. Or am I wrong about that? Don't you think it should be way more difficult to purchase a firearm, and the buyer should have everything short of a microscope up his ass?

Again, you are making mountains out of molehills. We already such systems in place; If authorities believe you are a threat to yourself or others they put you on a 5150 involuntary psychiatric hold. We can use a similar law that can restrict people with potential mental health issues from purchasing or owning firearms. If such a law was in place, a few more sorority girls would be alive today.

I found this in my news feed this morning.... A three year old boy picked up a handgun and shot and killed his little brother: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1808434

This is a huge part of the problem - irresponsible firearm owners. The same jackass who can't park their freaking car between the lines in the parking lot is the same jackass who owns multiple firearms, unsecure, where any child can come by, pick them up, and shoot and kill their younger brother by mistake.

It's common sense - you cannot have a loaded firearm any where near a child. Ever.

But we can do something. I just posted a link to a news article where a three year old boy shot and killed his baby brother. A simple law about gun safety locks would have prevented this.

So would a mother who actually cared about and paid attention to her children instead of bringing them to visit and then letting them run around unsupervised in some crazy old coot's home where they apparently had loaded handguns laying around in the open within arm's reach of a toddler. The irresponsibility and stupidity of all the adults involved in this story is astonishing.

Wow, that was hard. Seems California is working on a similar bill already.

Very simple.... If law enforcement officials believe you are a threat, they get a restraining order from a judge that will not allow them to own firearms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/us...ml?hpw&rref=us

The system failed here. This kid was in the mental health system for years, was on medication, and family and friends had called police to warn them and nothing was done.

The whole world watches in disbelieve as the US fights to keep deadly weapons.

The right to bear arms is surly countered by the right not to be shot?

Crime is falling in most societies and yet the fear of crime grows.

I am happy to live in a country where no one I know has a gun, would know how to get one or use one, and where the crime rate is falling.

DELETED POST......

I made a really good post but it was just a bit too heavy with reality.
Instead I will just say that in the USA we have a violent criminal element and guns are
a necessity for many people.

Many rural areas in America don't even have a police force, criminals would love to hear that they have no guns.

Freud's theories are popular because of this kind of shortcut

Doesn't ever rural area in the US have a police force? If you do not have a local city or township police force, you are covered by the county Sheriff? I live out in the middle of no where in NJ when I was a kid growing up - our address even had the "rural delivery" in it - and we covered by the township.

With that said, law enforcement was pretty much non existent in our neck of the woods - it was rare we saw a police car. Then again, it was rare event that we needed one.

Ironically we never locked our door, and the gun cabinet was five feet from the front door.

Ironic, isn't it? Crime has been dropping for decades yet some of us don't feel safe at all.

That meme was made by somebody who can't afford a big gun.

:1orglaugh

Guns have never been widely available in the UK and very very very few people ever had guns. So your graph is nonsense.


Guns are not a problem in the UK, they are in the US.

Understand these people :

Click to watch the video :
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...truders/nf9kS/

The following list seems to suggest that there is a problem with intruders, not guns because all these guns worked fine.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/polic...defense/nFB7g/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/gwinn...ntruder/nJYRH/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/clayt...ntruder/nJZsd/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/polic...ntruder/nFBTs/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/elder...ntruder/nJSkL/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/homeo...ntruder/nJSd2/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/burgl...ps-home/nJXyG/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/intru...obation/nJSQM/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/81-ye...suspect/nJScg/

:1orglaugh

Guns dont have to be banned. The simple solution is an 8 weekend class and test you have to pass to get a gun. You immediately filter out the crazies and the people like that girl who bought a shotgun and went to kill herself. 8 weeks takes away spontaneity and it would weeds the crazies out . Also it makes sure those who just want to be gun owners know how to properly deal with them, so you also filter out the kid got his dads gun and shot his sister.

This is a great idea. I took two full days of "safety classes" to get my motorcycle license once.

However, in this case I don't believe this would have worked. This kid was fucking motivated. He didn't just snap; He planned this out well in advance. Most people who kill with firearms do so because they don't "get wet", meaning they don't have to get close enough to the victim and risk getting blood on themselves. This was not the case with this kid who stabbed and killed three people before shooting anyone.

It's YOUR government's graph. Look at the link in the fucking chart. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

So shut the fuck up with your brit bullshit finger pointing.

Knives and cars... much like toothbrushes and rat poison and wooden 2x4s weren't invented to kill people. But they get used for that sometimes unfortunately despite their intended purpose. Practically anything can be used to kill another person. Bare hands even. Guns were SPECIFICALLY invented to be used to kill. No other purpose. Period. Assault weapons were SPECIFICALLY invented to be used to kill lots of people in a very short time frame. Again... No other purpose. Period. So sick and tired of the pathetic "well lets just ban cars" argument.

Criminals can make guns or buy them on the black market.
This is a reality that you don't accept.
Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens who want to protect themselves from criminals.
You will not disarm the criminals just the victims.

:2 cents:

Next time Germany decides to make you their bitch don't call on us and our deadly weapons, Chauncey. :321GFY

I understand that argument, truly I do. But until I see real statistics that show that owning a gun has protected people from being actual victims, and have helped law abiding citizens thwart home invasions and prevent public melee massacres from happening... or being worse than they were, I'd be more accepting of it.

If focus was more on mental health, and disarming criminals then I'd be more in support of guns.

But in the meantime, until that happens, guns do much more harm than good.

I posted stuff that you didn't read.

Here's all the stats you need; because if you are the one being attacked then you don't care about stats.
My life is not a "stat".

Well... thanks for those links. However, with each success story, on the flip side I have no doubt though that the wrong person died from misuse or willful misconduct with a gun 100 fold. More even.

What you posted reaffirms my argument that the focus needs to be on mental health and disarming criminals. And believe me... many many gun owners who are not labeled as criminals out there are mentally unstable whether they've committed a crime or not.

Take a look at this "pro gun law" site.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-a...es-statistics/

First thing to notice is the number of "Homicides".

They intentionally include all police shootings and self defense shooting in the homicides.
It's a homicide if someone is killed, period. It doesn't matter if they are trying to kill someone when they get killed, it's still a homicide.

That's how they present bullshit to the public.
Some of those homicides were absolutely necessary.

Some people say that guns are only made to kill.
If so then they don't work 60% of the time someone even gets hit with the bullet.
See quote : do the math
Interesting in the article is that poisoning is the number one cause of death with car wrecks being number 2 and then it's guns!

Don't worry about getting shot in the ass, worry about what that bitch put in your drink.

Because interestingly again is that they don't list the number of non-fatal poisonings.

Stats.......yeah, they're whatever the fuck people trick you into believing sometimes.

:2 cents:

The fact that more people were not shot, was due to good luck and his bad aim. He "planned" to get inside the frat house and shoot everyone inside. He had 3 pistols and a lot of ammo to carry out that plan.

His plan was thwarted because the door was locked and no one would open it. He then randomly started shooting at people and seems to have missed most of them including the shoot out with cops which he was shot but failed to hit any of them.

The guy intended to shoot as many people as he could. He just wasn't very good at it..

Meanwhile 80 people were killed by guns in this country the week prior to this event..