InfoGuy

100 DMCA requests

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"If it was up to me, they would have shot all 30,000 of those country loving shitheads"

mineistaken

101 thieves

InfoGuy

Wrong, the US government already tried this with kids.us and it was a miserable failure.

Your line of thought is extremely dangerous because porn opponents can easily extrapolate your idea of isolating a domain name space and lobby for the creation of a red light district for adult content. No thanks, fuck ICM and their trojan horse.

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"If it was up to me, they would have shot all 30,000 of those country loving shitheads"

Paul

Seriously... One website? Doesn't even come close to what I was suggesting

Who said anything about isolating a domain? A separate network for kids isn't a bad idea.

If you have a safe network for children with 1000s or 100,000s of websites it means the people who want to censor the entire internet to "protect the kids" don't have a great argument.

pornguy

If you just put the pressure on the Domain Registrars then the problem can be solved in regards to the piracy sites. No domain no site.

PornLaw, I think one of the things holding people back is the Cash upfront to get started. if the wont see an ROI on the suit, they dont bother.

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pornlaw

Pornguy - Agree 100% but six to seven years ago it could have been done as a preventative measure when companies were making money. Now it would be tough for any one company to fund that litigation. However a group of companies that can join together could do it.

The real issue is that most of the companies that could or would have done it are already - are now doing business with tubes so why bother. I still wonder if piracy was allowed to flourish in order to thin the herd of content producers. I find it hard to believe that no one saw it coming and didn't have a plan in place.

From Forbes... 2009 http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/04/dig...ali-joone.html

"In 2008, Vivid dropped a lawsuit against PornoTube for copyright infringement after the site made efforts to clean up its content. Hirsch says PornoTube is now one of the tube sites Vivid is working with ?to develop business models ? that will be mutually profitable.? Profitability is a huge concern to studios, since pornography has not proven recession-proof in this climate of ?free.? DVD sales are especially hard hit."

My early post was wrong.. Vivid used 2257 against AEBN.

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Michael

www.AdultBizLaw.com

KickAssJesse

what and who is mindgeek?
good video; but like everything, it is supply and demand, basic economics.

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FreeHugeMovies

How? Have you been living under a rock the past 5 years you idiot?

adultmobile

What if this video (and the story how it will end up) had traveled back in time, and everyone was informed let's say in 2004 or 2005, how it ended.
Do you think anyone could have done anything so it ended differently today?
I mean, even if everyone knew it all 10 years ago?

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InfoGuy

I saw Jenna Ross yesterday at XRCO and asked her about this. She says that she was ambushed by reporters at a shoot and that when they were outside, Nightline's cameras were not supposed to be filming. The "No Comment" answers were in response to a question asking them their thoughts about piracy and torrents. It was a general question that didn't mention Mindgeek/Manwin.

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InfoGuy

They were using subdomains under kids.us, similar to the multiple individual sites that operate under Blogger or Tumblr. Those 2 sites are proof that with enough interest, just one site can host the vast contributions from many participants.

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"If it was up to me, they would have shot all 30,000 of those country loving shitheads"

clickhappy

Everytime my webhost goes down I wish THEIR webhost would go down instead.

Due

I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Using 2257 could backfire badly if that became a common tactic. The message it would send is that 2257 is not strict enough since many sites are able to offer videos without 2257 docs, LEGALLY.
It would eventually lead to more strict rules, the rules would effect the content owners but not the tube site owners.
They would most likely argue that they merely provide space for the user who uploaded the "video" and they merely act as an ISP/OSP.
I doubt the judges are afraid of doing any 2257 rulings I'm guessing its because The Communications Decency Act would provide immunity against 2257 breaches to the tube site owner... If they filed all their paperwork correctly.
Touching subjects like that could be an instant career killer for any judge.
Personally I would go for the "uploaders".

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SomeCreep

Tube sites represent the final stage of the adult industry. They will continue their business as usual until ultimately, even their business models of monetizing stolen content are no longer profitable. As the years go by, internet usage worldwide will grow, but revenue and content production will continue to decline as users become more and more accustomed to free porn. One day generations (even now) will say, "I can't believe there was a time when people actually payed for porn."

Does anyone else see it any other way?

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notinmybackyard

Yes

Today fewer and fewer people are buying computers because everything is transitioning to mobil gadgets. So as tubes kill off the content producers... A time will come in when all the tube sites will be filled with primarly dumbfucks jerking their own dicks or fucking their fat girlfriends. IE: Pure Shit

After that at some point in time some punter will get it in his head to open a porn cinema with a handful of the remaining old good quality videos that he downloaded from the tubes. Then the entire porn cycle will start over again.

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adultmobile

You are stating that user generated content = shit, while content producer content = quality. You sure? I know you're a guy of experience (not a kid myself too), but you should consider what's the taste and concepts of life of the amount of people born after us, and that these people will completely replace us soon.

While it is true that the amateur content includes fat or otherwise ugly girlfriends (mostly this was so in the past, free amateur = fat and older women), the amateur content lately does not miss the young and cute ones. Even too young (i.e. under 18) and tiny ones (do a bing image search for "stickam" with adult filter off, tell me how many over 18 you see).

In fact the youngest teens (and not the fattest oldies) are the main producers of nude selfies, either alone or fucking a bf or gf. So that's what you will find more and more in tubes in future. The issue of selfie mobile generated content it is not that the girls are fat, old or ugly, but simply that you have no idea who is over 18 there, because no producer checked and stored their IDs.

The "quality" issue it could be related to lights, backgrounds, screenplay and direction, but I disagree about the prettyness of performers being lower in selfies, that's not the case. Also the video quality of recent cams or cam phones it is 1080p crystal clear, not an issue there, as long as the girl does not forget the damn lights in room.

I was discussing with a preminent solo site producer recently, and he complained that "in cam sites like mfc or chaturbate you can see hundreds of girls as pretty as mine models, if not prettier, showing naked for free, and people can talk them too". So the added value of (this) content producer over a plain pretty girl (alone or with bf to fuck her) with a cam on her bedroom and no any managers or publishers, it is very little, if any: at most, better lights, backgrounds, screenplay and direction. This in some cases it is available in fair amounts from creative girls or couples, so from many submissions, a selection can be good quality still, from home content only.

Still ok: you hardly get an x-art, nubiles, FTV, metart, joymii, watch4beauty etc. type of videos from home clips, but, what a % of people only watches art porn, disgregarding anything else? I don't disgregard "home shit", despite I worked at met-art for 5 years (both cams and photoshoots in ukraine and russia). I find entertaining 2001 A Space Odissey, and if possible I produce met-art type of stuff, still I do like some of the random selfie girl or couple porn clips too. Imagine what if you ask the random guy who even is bored at the erotica artsy stuff, not to mention Kubrik movies.

So except the issue of piracy of new producer's content uploaded in tubes, which started as 100% of the tube content, the issue it is shifting to the availability of legit free home-made content of enough quality. The only issue you can find in this content it is the questionable age, but there's no DMCA issue.

More young and attractive (drunk) people will get access to camera phones connected to internet, imagine all the shots that south america, east asia etc. can contribute in the next years. Already you see more indian cocks than western ones in submission sites - the girls and couples are following - you don't care the country of origin or name of porn, you care to the video, and I see good selfie home shots coming. Either in recorded clip, or live in cams, in fact look at cam4, chaturbate, etc. and that's the future of porn.

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notinmybackyard

First of all I have zero interest in anything under 18 and I have no intention of searching for it. All I will say is that I belong to the old school and if I find anyone producing or distributing under 18 porn in my neigborhood then they better take their chances with the cops. Because if I catch them then that person is going to find themself in a box with a lot of dirt on top of it.

Back to the conversation,
What you are confusing is the amateur that we the professionals produce and the average person creates. Just look at Youtube as a non-porn example... For every video creating "prodigy" there are thousands of people uploading crap. And in the end very few of these so-called "prodigies" can make a nickle from their videos so they usually never create more than 2 or 3 before disappearing.

As for the cam sites,
Every girl I have filmed in the last 2 years has tried to make money doing webcam shows. Again the situation is that for every girl making a decent living on the cam sites there are thousands trying everything possible to make a dollar and failing.

The smart girls figure out that they can earn better money escorting. They do not have to sit infront of a webcam all day waiting for a customer... Or... doing a free show hoping to entice a someone to pay for private time or give them a tip.

Taste, niche, etc,
Porn like eveything else works in cycles. Sooner or later what is old is new and what is new becomes old. One day the masturbators are going to look for their jerk off material someplace else. So as the mobile gadgets increase even I am starting to see old clients contacting me.... All of them complaining that a tablette just is not as good as the computer they got rid of. Unfortunately we are retiring out digital lines.

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signupdamnit

Nope. I think you are right. What it is is that the people at the top of our industry lacked business education. For the most part the people who started the tube thing were a bunch of frat boys who initially had little or no skin in the game. Now for the most part these guys have all left the industry. They took the money and ran leaving people such as ourselves to suffer. They didn't care that in the long term they were devaluing the product to $0.

What we used to enjoy was huge profit margins. The price we could get was far above the cost to produce the goods. We were able to get away with this because our customers had the perception that the price of the goods should be around what we were charging. These days now thanks to these frat boys (who left the industry years ago) the customers perceive that the price should be free.

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Supz

They are saying the adult industry is a 12 billion dollar industry. Not that mindgeek/ mawin make 12 billion dollars.

signupdamnit

I know. But if Mindgeek/Manwin has 100 million uniques a day to their tubes and is only able to get $100 million a year in revenue from that traffic what does that say about the industry being worth $12 billion at present? It's highly unlikely.

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adultmobile

I did not meant that the home-producers are doing money with either recorded clip or live cams. Most do this for free simply because drunk and/or bored at home. These wanna-be stars wrongly think they will make money, even if they will not, still they will produce and give away their content for a while before to figure they're doing it for free.

Think at facebook: no one is paid to write on facebook, still facebook owner is billionaire. Now think tubes and cam sites: no one is paid to fill tubes and cam sites with content, still (big) tubes and (big) cam sites owners are millionaire. In part due to advertisers who wrongly think they will make money by put their banners on tubes (via exoclicks or so) even if they will not, still they buy until figure - there's always a new genius who will buy their first adverts in a tube site when another one ended funds in loss.

My point it is simply that these home-people are so many to fill tubes and free cam sites 24/7, 365 days a year, with always new content. Such content is 99% bad, but the 1% it is still so much, enough to be more anyone can browse in a day.

I mean, even if trying for a week then giving up, a same or higher number of naked people pops up as a replacement of previously ones, even if no one of them made or will make a cent ever for the nudity and hardcore action depictions they disseminated on the net.

As you said, escorting it is still bringing money (but not if you're in Greece or 3rd world really) and a totally different business. Still escort sites it can be rethinked in many ways, for example look at travelgirls.com , such site is doing very well and already lots of clones are out.

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notinmybackyard

Face book is pure shit.
There is absolutely nothing that Facebook has that is new, different or even remotely origional. Everything from instant messengers to entire the entire concept of viritual friends... Literally it was/is all available on the net in various other forms. All Facebook is.. is the Walmart of the Interent. (ie: one stop.. find it all here surfing)

Facebook benefited from an abnormally exorbitant amount of media hype. And the owner lies like a snake about its numbers. If you own preferred stock in facebook you can get better access to the data about the site and see the absolute masterpiece of double talk the company publishes when confronted with questions about its revenus, user base, etc.

For example :
How many accounts are abanonded? (2 paragraphs that stop short of saying they are not keeping track)

Their primary revenu is also not from advertising and never has been. There is a lot of undisclosed sources that appear to point to a multitude of private contracts. In my opinion facebook's revenu is generated from the sale of personal data, data mining technologies and its stock.

But back to content debate,
Facebook's acquisitions of Instagram, snapchat, etc are nothing more than a fight for content. The average facebook memeber abanadons their account after 6 weeks and produces lilttle or no content except the reposting of the stupid photos and comments you find all over the net. In fact when you talk to any brooker that specializes in technology investements they will tell you that when dig below the surface of Facebook... It generates less usuable content than Myspace did with all the Independant Music Bands.

As more and more people abandon their computers for ease and practicality of portable devices. More and more pure shit will be uploaded to the tubes and it will just start getting to the point where more and more people will say "why bother searching?"

From a porn industry point of view when the majority of people access the net using mobil gadgets the average surfer will eventually be the punter that just wants to jerk off in under 5 minutes and go on with his day.

And that type of guy has never been our target market. He will never pay and there is no chance of selling him anything regardless of how good or original we make a video.

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adultmobile

I agree with you there will be 1 good content every 10000 "pure shit". If that was mixed randomly, it woud be not worth searching. However, content it is not presented randomly, there is ranking by votes, by views etc., this is like camscore in myfreecams for cams.

For example let's take deviantart.com , a social site for (mostly young) artists, where all th econtent is user-generated. Of course most it is teenager rubbish productions. However you can select to show content by popularity, for ex photography section by popularity:

http://www.deviantart.com/photography/?order=9

I see some nice things.

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notinmybackyard

And I just spent five minutes clicking on the photos and found that many if not most are stolen and not the work of amateurs. Making it basically a defacto pinterest.

Social media and user generated content does not foster creativity.

They promote theft and the recycling of content found already all over the Internet. Artists are not able to profit from their creations and anyone with talent posts a handful of examples of their work and quickly discover that they would be better off doing chalk drawings on the sidewalk with a tin cup looking for handouts.

Therefore 100% real user generated content is 97% pure shit. It is the idiot that updates his status every time he goes to the toilet, the dumb broad that shoves a tampon in her mouth, the stupid 20 year old male that posts photos of his car, the quasi-pedophiles grabbing videos of hairless twat barely legals, the moron that swears Obama is a shape changing lizard born in Kenya, uneducated trailer park trash that think Ray Kurzweil is going to gift them with immortality, guys who troll craigslist looking for pics.. etc... etc.... etc.. etc

And the voting on what is or is not popular is also bullshit.

The "herd" mentality is rampant to the point of being a new kind of social disease. Try posting on Reddit about the possibility of better controls on porn to protect children. Watch how literally everyone will scream *freedom of speech* and then tell you to shut the fuck up. Or if a woman posts a picture of her shoving a parking cone up her ass she will get a ton of hits and people loving it but even if a professional photographer took a picture of her exiting a church wearing a nice conservative dress won't even get a handful of hits and stands a good chance of being ridiculed because of the church in the background. I learned long time ago that if you post a video on youtube and want people to look at it... Post a thumbnail of a woman in a thong bikini otherwise it will be 30 views in 3 years.

Community standards are also bullshit

Puppy toss is banned from youtube in seconds but thousands of videos of torture, crucifictions, etc remain. A well made hollywood movie will sit until someone DMCA's it down but somone doing a documentary on the real estate fraud and scams of Jacque Fresco disappears in 24hours.

No my friend your problem is you caught up in the user tailored content trap,

You are not getting fed the big picture from your research efforts. Therefore I will put forward that when you consider the massive job losses the Internet causes, the huge national security problems it creates for governments and quite often public embarassements and scandals for various officals... It is not hard to see why so many politicians are subtlety pulling their support from the net based companies. Then add in that general public is now starting to get tired of the petty squabbles, no-life trolls, their 10 year old child constantly being exposed to tits and ass, etc.. etc.. etc...

It does not take an Einstien to figure out that mobil gadgets are the new trend and it will be the apps that allow them to access maps, restuarant locations and menus, music, twitter/snapchat, etc. Web 2.0 with its traditional websites are dying fast.

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The Hun

Lame comparison... people NEED food, they NEED cloths... people don't NEED porn... so there's a huge difference there...

Furthermore, the porn industry can't advertise on the main stream media, so their advertising budget is spent differently: giving away SOME of it's content for free... it's all a matter of marketing and getting your name/product out there. It's gone too far though...

Fashion spends HUGE amounts of money giving clothing away to the right people! So you're wrong that clothes aren't being given away. Just not to you. 'cause GIVING you clothes doesn't make you any more addicted to them. Giving your favorite stars clothes and you will go for that brand. That's how it works... Do not compare pears with apples please... it doesn't make sense...

Fucking myself

Damn !! I really miss 2005 !!!

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alias

Looks like some nice media placement from http://therubpr.com.

Nice work Erika!

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C H R I S

Well done by Nightline - usually exposes on our industry are just salacious segments to boost viewership and don't actually expose anything. This went indepth and got to the heart of the matter.

IMO they already have most of the traffic - a piece like this may boost it but anyone who views porn online already goes to their sites/

AL looks great. Rockstar.

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C H R I S
Retired Porn Veteran

BH4L

alias

AL has been 19 longer than Lia19, ftw. I remember her humble start on VS.

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Huge

Please expand. I'm interested in reading about the full history and everything that went down. The 'rise and fall from power' sounds like a great story.

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TheMaster

lol indeed, according to Xbiz:
years of laziness and doing nothing against piracy pushed the problem beyond a tipping point I fear and created a whole generation of users who didn't need to pay for full member area content

btw so the US porn industry is down to 35% of what it was, then take into account inflation and the fact that the user base for porn has just kept growing, that means it's actually down 75% (at least)

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EngineCash

There is no chance for porn to go down... Relax...