JFK

2 FItty

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Jane-Busty.pl

Shap, are You mad at me?

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Shap

Not at all. I still haven't replied to everyone. I tend to leave the longer questions for when I have more time to answer. Which is some time during the week

Poppy

Will Chelsea win the Premier League this season & will your boys play hockey or futbol? The easy answer is both, but there comes a time 5hey will have to give one up. Also, will you be joining our fantasy league next season, which is sponsored by Traffic Force this year?

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In adult since 98'

rocky1234

Shap, what happen to Candi Cruz? I miss her.

DaLord

Where would this industry have been without ICQ, mate?

Mike

Lesa

What do you think it is best to start with in adult these days?
I have worked with freesites and tgp's with many sponsors including twistys in 2005-06 when ratios were decent, but I had to quit to finish college. I am working as developer right now.
Thanks

celibado

Good Night Shap, nice to meet you.

I'm starting in this business, so I don't have much idea of what i'm doing with my sites. ¿How can I build my traffic networks? ¿Can you give an advice to get traffic? Some of my traffic is direct traffic (watermarking videos), trade traffic with scripts, and mail marketing with a mailing list, but the major traffic income is buyed from plugrush or traffic holder.

I'm very lost and I appreciate if you give some advice to start from zero in this business. I would like to get real traffic that converts but the major traffic I get does not convert! I try crakrevenue too. Moreover, I don't have the numbers to test it. May be I need to know how many hits must I send in order to get a conversion, so if you have some % numbers to give me I appreciate it.


Best regards,

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Thanks to all of us to trade with me! It was not be possible for me alone to get this numbers! Well go on! More traffic please! More traffic!! I want my Apache burned!!! :D

ohjulien

Why are there so many douche bags on here and why has no one killed the "who is this girl/ what's her Name?" Guy

Fucking hell

Shap

Hi!

1. I guess like any industry a platform of free publicity gives you the opportunity to increase your brand's reach and make more money. Everybody is up against the same challenges. It's not like some companies deal with the free problem everybody does. So you have to use it to your advantage. It increases the number of people aware of your brand the key is to have something good enough and interesting enough for them to want to join.

2. I can't remember offhand but it felt like a lot to me $60k+ a month.

3. Interesting question. I think we touched on this last time we spoke. It's an interesting thought. I know Naughty America tried this and shut it down shortly after launch. I don't remember why but they did. In theory a product that offers every paysites photosets and video scenes for $1 a piece is a great idea. The platform takes 30% (which would include processing charges) and the content provider gets 70%. The most difficult challenge would be getting enough companies on board to make it worth while. The interface, the delivery system, and really everything about it would have to be very well done to get surfers and companies on board. If done right it could be huge. I would definitely talk to Andreas at Naughty America first and see what happened with theirs. He may not sure but if he did he may have some really great insight.

Shap

That's a fair comment. I like coming here 1. when I'm bored and 2. when I'm putting off doing something else LOL. I don't know why I do but i do

Many of my better friends I met in the industry and are still in the industry. So I guess coming to an industry forum is in a weird way familiar and enjoyable for me.

Shap

I don't have a secret to it. I always start by putting myself in the shoes of the person that may be buying. You always have to start by identifying with your prospective client and then trying to meet their needs at the right time. Especially in porn. There are times a prospective client will be on your site but there is nothing you can do that will get him to buy? He may not have the time, he may be at work, his wife may be home etc etc. So you have to really think about who you are selling to and then try to give reasons to entice them while removing the barriers to the sale. Once you have them hooked and ready to join your site/product has to be well designed so you get them in and joined up asap.

I've always found once you identify with them and you treat them the way you'd want to be treated things go well. Be honest and imagine you were them.

Shap

If you have a more specific niche or type of sale you are working on by all means please feel free to ask That was a general answer to a general question

Shap

Provide a great life for my family

Shap

Yesterday was a very good day for Blues Fans! Sorry it didn't work out well for you guys

Shap

My pleasure

Shap

If that is the formula that works for you run with it. I always found it easier to make one big site than 10 smaller ones. I like the idea of one focus and one thing to concentrate on.

PaperstreetWinston

haha, beat me to it

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blabarama

Hi Shap,

Like a few others here, I'm fairly new in this business, so I don't have much idea as well. I will basically just copy what I put out there to the general forum here.

So, anyone have suggestions or experience with "black ghetto" traffic. Sorry, but I really don't know how else to put it.

Twerking, hood, ratchet, black big ass sexvids...that is all me.


I am sending this niche traffic to a good cam offer right now, but it doesn't pay that well. It converts well, but I'm thinking a ppl for an ebony/ghetto video site may be better for my traffic. Maybe even Black Tryst dating.

So, what would you do? Comments or suggestions would be appreciate. Great forum btw!

There you go. I have built a few tubes with hosted tube and have one of my own, but before I start sending traffic, I would like your thoughts on what you think about this kind of traffic and how to monetize it properly. Would love to hear any suggestions that you have and thanks for reading!

Blab

Lichen

Jim_Gunn

Is this kind of disgusting .gif above actually allowed here?

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Filming Cinematic Porn
Skype JimGunnProductions

brassmonkey

she's regular

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johnnyloadproductions

I take it you don't do those kind of custom shoots?


I think if CurrentlySober approves, you're golden.

Shap

I agree. Oh well not much you can do. 6 pages of replies and only two negative posts both by the same guy :/

Jim_Gunn

That's a credit to you because you were well liked. Nice to hear you're doing well Shap and enjoying family life. It was a pleasure working with you and your guys at Twistys.

__________________
Jim Gunn
Filming Cinematic Porn
Skype JimGunnProductions

Shap

Thanks Jim! Same here. How are you doing?

Jim_Gunn

Doing great, recently got back from seeing friends and business associates in Vegas at the conventions. Still filming beautiful new models every week!

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Jim Gunn
Filming Cinematic Porn
Skype JimGunnProductions

Shap

I don't think Chelsea will win this year. Man City are unbelievable. When they are on they just destroy teams. Chelsea has to win in Man City in a few weeks and definitely can't lose that game.

They will probably play futbol and tennis.

And yes I will absolutely join next year. I'm glad I didn't join this year. The first 5 weeks I was flying blind. But I've been doing my homework and learning quickly watching a lot of games. I'll be ready to compete next year!

Shap

No clue. I don't even know who that is. Who is she?

Shap

Good question. ICQ was a god send back in the day. It was the perfect product at the perfect time for the industry. Do many people still use it? I know a lot of guys moved to Skype. Funny thing I thought Skype was only for video or audio calls. A bunch of guys kept asking me for my skype id. I never gave it because I was thinking FUCK THAT I don't want to have a video call with this guy. LOL I had no idea there was a messaging component to it.

BettingHandle

Will we ever want to have sex with robots?

__________________

Shap

I never thought of that but my gut tells me absolutely. Especially since robots won't look like pieces of metal but probably hotter than the hottest girl we could get and never say no LOL

FUCK J0EL

Why is Joel a much better golfer then you ??

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CarlosTheGaucho

I'll bite:

1) What were your initial / consecutive goals at the very start, pre-Twistys and how long did it take to achieve them?

2) At what point did you realize that this really took off and the business started to overexceed your initial expectations, that it's time to branch out into the paysite game?

3) Similarily, what were your initial and some of the latter goals / milestones after launching Twistys, how long did it take to achieve them?
Of course there's no need to mention any particular numbers in case you'd deem them not public.

4) What do you take as the most valuable business advice you ever got?

5) What made you decide to settle in London?

6) Your favourite NHL team and your all time favourite line up?
(Mine: Vancouver Canucks 93 / 94 vs. NY Rangers 93 / 94 - THE finals with both teams full of one of a kind characters)

Thanks - wishing the very best!

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Shap

That is a very good question lol I can't even come up with a clever answer you just are!

Shap

Are you starting from scratch? Are you a good developer?

Shap

First step IMO is start slow and cheap. If you try fast and expensive you'll spend all your money and not really get anywhere.

Is it a free site? What niche? Mind listing it?

Shap

I know that part sucks. But for every douche bag posting there is a non douche bag reading and lurking.

Shap

Hi There!

That's a hard one. I've never been able to sell black anything. I'm not sure why but it definitely is one area that I remember having zero success in.

Having said that I think like most niches you have to try different sponsors, different sales tactics, different approaches. Just because a banner ad to sponsor A converts at 0:20,000 doesn't mean you can't sell that sponsor. It may just mean you haven't sold to them properly. Have you tried asking the sponsors what they think would work? Sadly, most don't have a clue. But you may get some good ideas.

Do you have a url i can check out? I may have some ideas if i see it.

Shap

Thanks Carlos. Here you go.


1) What were your initial / consecutive goals at the very start, pre-Twistys and how long did it take to achieve them?

I started so long ago the web was a novelty. I was surfing using quicklink and it was all text LOL. So my original goal was make some money (almost immediately). Once I saw i could make money my goal was to make $120,000 a year (within the first year). From there it because $1,000 a day (2nd or 3rd year). Then a million a year (5th or 6th year).

I remember thinking the jump from 120k a year to 360k is FUCKIN HUGE and from there to 1mil is even bigger. I know some people make it sound easy. Fuck them. it's not. It's hard. And every level you want to go up becomes harder and harder.

2) At what point did you realize that this really took off and the business started to overexceed your initial expectations, that it's time to branch out into the paysite game?

I never reached that point on my own. I had my head in the sand running BigBreastLovers, SexApe and PicWarehouse. I had no thoughts of starting a paysite. I met my wife who had been working with IEG and Python before that. She saw what I was doing and saw my numbers and clued me in that while I may think I'm doing well I'm nowhere near what others are doing and that the real money isn't in free sites but in pay sites. Huge change in my thinking and she convinced me to jump into the paysite business.

3) Similarily, what were your initial and some of the latter goals / milestones after launching Twistys, how long did it take to achieve them?
Of course there's no need to mention any particular numbers in case you'd deem them not public.

I think with Twistys my first goal was to hit 100 signups a day. Which we did 2 months after launch. Then the goal was to have 1000 members then 2000 then 5000 then 10,000, then 20,000 etc. I remember getting to 1000/2000 wasn't too bad. But 5000 and 10,000 were a BITCH! A lot of hard work and really awesome retention were needed. 1000 and 2000 took a few months where the others took a few years of building up.

4) What do you take as the most valuable business advice you ever got?

Hmm. That's a hard question. I can't pin point one as the most valuable piece of info. There is one thing I've always truly believed and that is the Law of Inertia. Which is...

"An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force."

I've always believed in momentum both positive and negative. When we'd have a few bad sales days we had to act and do something to reverse it. Because if not it would continue. The same goes for office morale, bad employees, bad sites, bad business deals, bad karma. Once the shit storm starts you are in big trouble if you think it's going to go away. Likewise if things are good keep them rolling and ride that wave but be mindful if the wave looks like it's about to end you need to do something or you'll lose that momentum.

5) What made you decide to settle in London?

One of my wife's favourite cities in the world. Great education system for my boys. And amazing tax system.

6) Your favourite NHL team and your all time favourite line up?
(Mine: Vancouver Canucks 93 / 94 vs. NY Rangers 93 / 94 - THE finals with both teams full of one of a kind characters)

Right now Montreal canadiens. As a kid I was a huge Oilers fan (until they traded Gretzky) and then a huge Lemieux fan. Favourite line up would have to be old school Oilers. I love that with Apple TV and the Nhl network you can watch all those old classic games now.

Shap

I think this catches me up to date on all the questions. If I missed a question just post again. Or if you have a followup or new question fire away. I'll check back frequently to see if there have been any new posts.

kazakova7

hello
may be u can give some contscts who work with tube sites?
thanks

Rumbledog

75% of those who post here shouldn't be allowed here.

Think about the type of person who looks at stuff like that.
Think about the type of person who shoot that type of content.
Think about the type of person that would perform that on video for the world to view.
Think about the person performing with person who shit on video while sucking cock for the entire world to see.

Do you really have a desire to associate with people like that? I for one, do not.

JayAllan

Hi Shap

What is your take on the "Glamcore" market? X-Art.com, Sexart.com, Babes.com, Nubilesfilms.com etc. I really like where X-Art.com has gone and having come from the J. Stephen Hicks studio I have always strived to push the envelope in quality and design. I know it?s not for everyone but I feel it could be a gold mine if done right and marketed as such. Gonzo is great for the general masses but it is supersaturated and always will be.

There are a lot of copycat sites that try to imitate x-art (whom I view as the leader in this category) but they really fall flat when it comes to the quality. I feel that we did some really great stuff with Babes.com but it was basically marketed to all the Brazzers users and never really touted as a high end product. Kind of like trying to sell Aston Martins to a bunch of Honda Civic drivers.

I see it as a niche like any other and I think as a newer segment it needs to mature. Hotter scenes that are more hardcore but with great lighting and advanced camera moves and depth of field. Personally, I see massive potential here. It is a great time to be a filmmaker with all the new tech available or coming such as higher shutter speeds and 4k cinema cameras.

This is all my take on it, but I am curious how you see it and if you believe it has a viable future in adult.

Shap

I don't have any off hand and besides that I think that is something you have to do for yourself. Someone giving you all the answers to make money won't result in you making money.

Cutting corners and having someone else do the work for you is never the answer. You have to build your own relationships with the tubes that are right for you.

If you were a new employee of mine and you came in and asked myself or someone else that question you'd be on the verge of being fired. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just trying to give you valuable information. Don't be lazy.

There is no fast money, there is only hard earned money!

Shap

I love that niche. I think it's great. There are a few things though that it needs. I think the price of shooting something like that has to come down. There are economics in porn that seem to hold true and once you step outside those parameters you get into trouble. From what I've heard the cost of producing the content far outweighs the return. If that continues then the market won't last very long. Similar to the glamour market. You need competition for a healthy market as competition helps make it justifiable for more models to jump in.

I haven't seen much of what competition have produced but x-art does a great job. The owners have it down. And it shows that they get the market and everyone else is trying to copy them. Attention to details are so important. Has to look real, has to look high quality, has to be super sexy. Hard to pull off when it is a hardcore scene at the end of the day.

JayAllan

Thanks for the response Shap

It is definitely a niche. I think the cost vs the return is not necessarily true. X-Art scenes cost around $7-9k and they are doing fine. Colette and Brigham are wonderful people and they know what they are doing. I think it is more a matter of how it is marketed to the proper end users. Marketing Babes.com to a bunch of Mofos and Brazzers customers will never work. A site like that needs mainstream exposure (porn for women or new tech invades high end porn etc etc) and targeted marketing to get the more discriminating buyers in there. AFAIK Babes.com was never branded as "High Quality Adult Porn" or "Couples Friendly" etc even though it was creatively designed that way.

I do agree it HAS to be hardcore and not at all cheesy but that is easy when done right. A lot of X-Art competition is very poorly executed. They focus on the blown out highlights, white rooms etc but miss on the actual quality of shooting and camera moves. The subtle nuances are what make it great and a lot of copycats just don't see them.

Incidentally, the price of high end "glamcore" will not come down anytime soon. It's already down to the hard costs of labor, equipment and locations. When I was shooting these types of scenes a few years ago (For SexSearch.com) the costs were well over $30k a scene due to the gear and lighting involved. So it is actually a lot cheaper now. That is because of the dramatic shift to DSLRs and low light capability. The hard costs involved are not going to change. You will always need more assistants, makeup, quality lights, and great locations to shoot it. Not to mention talented directors to shoot it. These are all fixed costs that will remain constant. Shooting in Europe of course mitigates some of these costs but the addition costs of moving high end gear and skilled assistants and makeup to these areas balance out most of the numbers. I have been shooting in adult for 21 years now and I have never seen more potential for high quality content as I do now.

Robbie

Jay...I've shot a lot of porn and been around a lot of porn.

And I promote X-Art stuff.
So I see their work. It's nice. Boring, but nice.

What on Earth causes those scenes to be so expensive? The location? WTF?
It isn't like they are a mainstream movie telling a story on some exotic location. Most of the scenes are either indoors or by a pool. Just like all porn.

They could be shot at any nice home in L.A. or Vegas... or anywhere.

So why are the costs to shoot that so high? I don't get it.
Are they spending days at a time to shoot those nice little vids? I'm not seeing a whole lot of acting or dialogue in the promo materials.

Just cheesy music and the camera set to make a lot of bokeh in the background for that "soft" look.

Am I missing something? I'm not seeing anything that should cost any more than a normal shoot.
Matter of fact, a group sex scene would cost a lot more than what I'm seeing on their site.

Don't get me wrong. It looks pretty. But just looking at it...I think it could be shot for a lot less than a "normal" porn scene. Unless they are flying everybody in private jets to exclusive 5 star hotels and eating caviar.

Call me crazy, but I don't get it.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

This is what I'm talking about. Very nice and looks awesome.
But I don't see that it's worth $7-9 K to shoot:

http://hosted.x-art.com/galleries/ge...php?PA=2286147

Does that hotel have walls made of gold or something? lol

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

JayAllan

Robbie,

I could break it down line by line for you but this is not the place to do that. Here are some basics though:

You need deep sets. That means a regular bedroom will not do. Once you get to the house you have to stage all the furniture to get that setup/look. That takes time and manpower. We often move king size beds from upstairs to downstairs hallways etc. Then you need to light that deep set in different stages. Since it is deep you are really lighting the foreground, the background, and the subjects, all with different ranges of light. Then you need to set up dollies/ sliders and in some cases jibs. They have to be all balanced and sandbagged etc. Not to mention trucked in and carried to wherever you are shooting. All that extra time spent setting up and balancing lights and moving them in is costly. I use 15 plus lights all the time.


The furniture and the clothing need to match and so you need to buy appropriate wardrobe the day before. (all this btw is standard in mainstream and was standard on every Penthouse Magazine shoot I ever was involved in when Bob Guccione owned it) These scenes cannot be shot with less than three assistants. Makeup is more detailed. Just like with Penthouse Centerfolds you are looking at 3 plus hours of makeup and not by some random porn makeup artist. I pay my MUA girls at least $500 a girl and I only use specific MUA that can actually do it. Trust me with these girls and this type of shoot only the best MUA?s will do. There is a small circle I share with Holly, Dean, Tammy etc. You also can not shoot sound in camera as that will not work with DSLRs to achieve the quality we get. So you need separate sound recorders and a sound person to run a boom.

So we have several crew members that have to be paid and a lot of time needed for makeup and setup. Locations are also costly when you are in these types of homes and since there is so much setup one can only get 2 shoots done in a 12-14 hour day. This adds to the cost as well since you can only split the location by in half. If I was shooting gonzo I could shoot 6 scenes in the same time.

Not everyone who watches these glamcore films will appreciate the subtle details and quality flourishes certainly. They are not the target buyers. Just like any niche (Fetish is a good example) it is the specific details that make it good and the people that appreciate that niche see it right away. We also pay a composer to score our scenes and that costs as well. Most of my scenes for babes did get cheesy music added unfortunately but that was (in my opinion) a bad call on their end. They are my client and it is their product so they are free to do with it as they wish.

Also the private Jets and Caviar does add up ;)