DWB

Germany doesn't have a lot of this...

MaDalton

and then what?

i think about it every day since no day goes by without several documentaries on various TV channels...

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Rochard

While I am not great at math, I stand by my statement. You are comparing apples to frog legs.

The US has states larger than Germany. Germany is 137,847 sq miles, Alaska is 663,267 sq miles. The biggest state is nearly five times larger than Germany.

And again, you are comparing apples to frog legs. You cannot compare the gun culture in the US to the gun culture in Germany - to very different things. We are gun nuts. The US has 89 guns for 100 people, while Germany has 30.

You just can't really compare the two.

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MaDalton

1 police man = 1 gun
1 criminal - 1 illegal gun

Germany - 85 bullets in total in 1 year
US - 84 bullets to stop 1 person

i have no idea what the size of the country has to do with that but if you think that's important: so be it

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L-Pink

At the most someone should have had the shit tased out of them. Firing a gun, no way.

Robbie

Question for Rochard:

If your mom pulled away at a traffic stop...and then the cop pulled her over again, and she complied and did not attempt to flee any further.
And then the cop started screaming at her and physically grabbed her and started dragging her screaming out of the vehicle while a van full of kids are screaming hysterically...

Would you just stand there and let that happen to YOUR mother?

Just answer that: yes or no. Would you let that man physically grab your mother?

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georgeyw

I see what you did wrong there. Let me help you with your calculations.

Any stat comparison is fine unless of course these stats make US stats look bad.

If stats make US look bad, add in arbitrary irrelevant stat. No need for any explanation about the relevance.

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Robbie

Yep, that's how the govt. controls us here in the U.S.

No matter what they do to us, we are programmed from the first day in school that we are "Free" and the the U.S. is the "Greatest" at anything and everything.

So they run the national debt up to 17 trillion, steal billions with corruption and graft, have the police shooting and killing us, and incarcerate more of our citizens than any country in the history of the world...
But we are all so pre-programmed that we not only let them do it...we fucking AGREE with it!

It's a sad state of affairs for sure.

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crockett

The cops will be put on paid vacation for two weeks and found to be acting within their guidelines, free to shoot and ass search the next victim.. The mother and son will now spend the next 2 or 3 years with legal battles.. That's justice..

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Rochard

This has happened to me.

Years ago I pulled over because I "fled" from a highway patrol at a high rate of speed. The truth is I wasn't fleeing; I was speeding and back then speeding for me was 130 mph. I never saw the fully marked police car behind me; The police thought I was fleeing. It was a full felony stop; I ate gravel. I was in fact yelled at, screamed at, and grabbed. I didn't resist, yet I was cut in the process and received a rather painful knee to the back.

The police thought I had a dead body in the trunk or at least drugs; They took this very seriously. I didn't resist in any way shape or form, they were heavy handed, and it wasn't pleasant at all.

This is what happens when you break the law.

Yes.

If my mother broke the law, the police went to arrest her, I would not interfere in any way at all.

What do you expect me to do? Attack the police officer? Because my mother was getting arrested for breaking the law?

Look at the tape - the mother fled, and when pulled over a second time the police officer tried to get her out of the car to put her in handcuffs because she was an obvious flight risk. There is no being nice about it at this point - It's either get out of the car now or face the consequences, and she chose to face the consequences - which starts with being forced out of her car.

You get what you deserve in life. Break the law, then refuse to obey a police officer, you get handled.

Robbie, are you seriously telling me that if you watched your mother break the law, you would then attack the police officer who was attempting to arrest her?

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huey

I wonder what the pig was thinking shooting into the mini van? Kill or maim the driver at the wheel of a moving car full of children?

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Just Alex

Sounds like Robbie is nothing but black thug stuck in redneck's body.
What kind of dumbass question is this? Your mother just put you in danger by breaking a law, pissed on the fact she has children in her car, lead police chase on mother fucking Chrysler minivan and continued driving after she got shot at! Will you go fight for her?
This raises the question of what kind of mother did you grow up with? Holly fuck!

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Rochard

I don't get it either.

Police officer makes traffic stop, driver flees, police chase and attempt to arrest driver... And at that point it's okay to assault the police officer?

If your mother breaks the law and gets arrested, you cannot attack the police officer no matter what. The only possible ending you to attacking a police officer is a felony charge and going to jail.

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Phoenix

I think he was not thinking. Kill the mother...Kill some kids.
Kill the mother who then loses control of her vehicle and smashes into another vehicle which kills the kids and the other vehicles passengers. Kill the mother, which smashes into a truck which then runs over the officer killing them as well.
Who knows....i dont think any of these things. I think he was just thinking PEW PEW PEW PEW

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videobunch

I thought since the rear window did not shatter he was maybe shooting at the tires. The distance he was at, it would have been hard for him to miss the car.

Just my thought.

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Rochard

Doesn't really matter.... It's just the thought of him shooting at a car with kids in it that is mind blowing.

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bronco67

The whole video is available to watch now. I just saw most of it on TV.

The first cop who made the stop was very polite and gave the driver specific instructions on what her options were within 30 days of the stop -- but she was so fucking dense. The thing escalated into a bad situation after she pulled away when he went back to the car. By the time you get to the end of the video, where everyone in the car is on the ground with guns pointed at them, you can only think "damn, black people are really bad at getting pulled over."

That fat cop didn't need to discharge his weapon, but the whole thing could have gone so easily if she just would have complied with the officer who really had a frustrating situation to deal with when you have someone who has a such a thick skull.

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Rochard

Robbie never responded. If his mother intentionally violated the law and was being arrested, would Robbie assault a police officer for no reason?

That sums it up right there.

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Robbie

Yes I did.

When I first asked the question of you. I stated very succinctly that when I was a teenager I would have 100% defended my mother. That would be THE reason I would have "assaulted" a police officer.

And by "assaulted" ...the video shows the kid running to defend his mother and try to get that cop off of her. The only person "assaulting" anyone was that pig grabbing a woman with a van full of kids.

And you know what? That cop wouldn't have let anyone touch HIS mother either. He would have done the same thing.

You have stated you would NOT defend your mother against that asshole. So now we know who we both are as people.

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vdbucks

You should revise your statement... the cop would have shot anyone who touched his mother, not just defended but shot. And of course, in that scenario, Rochard would be on here talking about how it was ok for him to do because he is the absolute epitome of a sheep.

Robbie

Honestly...I don't know what the hell Rochard is thinking when he makes his statements.

I guess he's just trolling. Maybe it's fun for him.
Absolutely bad for business though.

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vdbucks

Rochard is pro government control, pro police state, anti freedom... all because he thinks that America is somehow safer today than it was before 9/11...

He's a sheep that picked a "side" and believes everything his "side" tells him on tv... just like most Americans...

bronco67

But if mom was a dumb bitch so dense she couldn't follow simple directions, then it becomes a little cloudy.

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...only in America...

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Rochard

What do you mean "defend his mother". His mother was being arrested for violating the law - multiple times. It stuns me that you think it's proper to assault a police officer for arresting someone.

The end result was the same - the mother still got arrested, and as an extra added bonus the kid now is charged with assaulting a police officer.

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Rochard

I was just talk to respect police officers and authority in general. It's served me rather well. Any time I've been in trouble, I respect authority and I stay out of trouble.

When I had that full felony stop, I obeyed the police officers. I ate a little gravel, but frankly I deserved that if only for being a dumb ass. When I went to court of this later on, it was more of the same - I was the only one wearing pants no less a suit and tie. (Then again, it was Phoenix, and it was brutally hot that day.)

I'm sorry. This is very simple. Violate the law, you get arrest, resist arrest and you are at the mercy of the police. If you interfere with an arrest, well, you get arrested too.

This is the way it's always been.

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crockett

The cop that busted the window was pushing it and made the situation even worse.. If a cop is trying to bust out your windows, you can sure as hell bet I'd try to run as well. I'd likely run right to a public place to turn myself in, but no fucking way would I let a cop just beat on me, just because he's a dickhead.

The cop that opened fire, should have been fired soon as the video was seen.. Under no time was his life in danger and not only did he shoot at a car that had kids in it, but he shot with the other officer almost in his line of fire. The cop that was on the ground just about walked into his gun fire as he got up. That cop that fired is not only a public threat but a threat to his fellow officers. This guy will end up killing someone before it's done if he remains a cop.

The first cop, I can't say if he was justified in his actions of throwing the woman on the ground, because there isn't enough information as for why she ran off from the first stop. Looking at how the second two cops acted, I'd have to question if this first cop didn't do something which caused the woman to flee for her safety.

Cops need to take a step back and realize their job is to protect and serve. It's not them vs us.

Rochard

But the woman ran before that happened. Cop pulled over driver, driver fled, police pursued, attempted to arrest driver, driver resisted, officer was assaulted by driver's son.

You say "he busted the window for no reason". The truth is he busted a window while going after a kid who had just committed a felony.

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Robbie

Man Rochard...you should just stop typing.

I'm losing respect for you by the second here. And I know I'm not the only one.

If for nothing else...just let it go for the sake of business and friendship. You're making yourself appear like a coward and a kiss-ass. And I don't think you really are either of those things.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Rochard

Your mother breaks the law, the police go to arrest her... And your response to attack the officer?

How do you not understand this?

This woman was going to be arrested no matter what. You either accept this and allow the officer to cuff you, or you are going down on the ground. This is the way an arrest goes down; This is the way it's always worked. You cannot interfere with a police officer making an arrest no matter what, period.

In the scenario of your mother being arrested and you attacking the police officer, the end result is going to be the same - Your mother will still get arrested, and now you will face felony charges of assaulting an officer.

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Robbie

A speeding ticket. She wasn't a mass murderer. She was a freakin' soccer mom.

And no, I would not let any man manhandle my mother. I don't care if they are wearing a little uniform or not.
Yes, I would stand up to the cop. I'm not afraid to defend the people I love.

As for the rest of it...yes, she will get arrested and so would I. But I'd do everything in my power to make sure it was done in front of a LOT of people and cameras rolling so that asshole wouldn't be able to hurt her physically.

And then I'd own that town. I guarantee you I'd get the best attorney in the country and sue them for millions. And I'd make damn sure that cop was on unemployment. And IF he actually laid hands on my mom...I'd also "run into him" in a bar and beat his ass senseless.

I'm a man. I defend my family.

Would I do the same thing if my mom was a serial killer or something like that? Of course not.

But a traffic ticket? With a cop who overreacted when a mother with a van full of children panicked at the first stop? Absolutely.

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bronco67

To get a fully informed opinion of the situation, you all should watch the unedited video if you haven't already. You'll see from the cop's point of view, it had to be like trying to talk to brick wall.

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Rochard

It wasn't a speeding a ticket. It started off with a traffic stop and quickly became much more when she fled.

She fled from a traffic stop. For the cop knew, the reason she ran was because she had a car full of dead bodies.

And I get that.

You are going to defend the person who just broke the law, you are going to defend the person who is breaking the law by resisting arrest, and you are going to defend them committing a felony. The end result is the same - your mother is still going to get hurt, still going to arrested, and as an extra added bonus you are going to jail and being charged with a felony.

How that does that defend your mother? Chances are she's going to get hurt even more by your actions, and instead of potentially being released she will now be sure to face charges.

By you defending your mother you have the same result, only worse.

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crockett

It doesn't matter if the woman was the most ignorant person on this planet. It still does not justify the one cop that opened fire on the van. This isn't really a discussion on if the woman should or shouldn't be arrested. It's a question of police brutality and attempted murder as far as I'm concerned.

You can't just shoot people because they dis-obey a cop or just because they are fleeing.

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Jel

ok guys, there it is

Who had post #61 in the sweep?

ps of course a car full of kids should be shot at because one of the occupants made physical contact erm I mean assaulted a copper, because that kid *could* have pulled the firearm (but didn't)!

Rochard

So the cop wasn't being a dick at all; He didn't ticket her for her DL being expired.

This is exactly what I thought it was. The driver was a complete bitch, and fled from a routine traffic stop. After three minutes of her refusing to get out of the car, and eventually she peacefully gets out of the car. He attempted to restrain her, she went to flee again, the kid comes out and attacks the police officer. Now we have a very dangerous situation where an officer is attempting to restrain a suspect, is attacked by a fourteen year old kid, the officer draws his gun, children on a busy freeway... Fucking insane.

Did the cop need to break the window? He's got one suspect (the driver) resisting arrest, a second suspect (the fourteen year old kid) who just assaulted him - Both suspects are coming out of the van no matter what and the police aren't waiting.

This is new to me.... The officer who shot at the mini van wasn't the same officer who pulled them over. The officer who shot didn't know the full circumstance. Just before the other two police cars arrive, the original officer says something into his radio - at the 12:20 mark or so - which is most likely something along the lines of "officer assaulted, need assistance quickly" and two police cars come screaming in. All the shooting officer knew is that a suspect fled from a traffic stop, and the officer had reported he had been assaulted and was asking for emergency back up.

I still think the shooting was improper... But the kid had no right to interfere at all.

That woman is a crack head.

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Rochard

The cop who fired the shots had been called into a traffic stop where a suspect had assaulted a police officer, and the officer was calling for emergency backup.

I'm not saying it's justified, but all the officer knew is that he was responding to an emergency call of a police officer being assaulted.

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Jel

christ... so basically, dumb people should absolutely expect to be shot at, or have their kids shot at, because well, they shouldn't be so dumb. I mean, it's not like some people *are* just dumb is it? Shoot those idiots dead for being stupid.

And you are absolutely ok with what you admit was ignorance that led to you being assaulted, because by the time they did stop you, remove you from your vehicle, and you had your hands on your head (or wherever), you 'deserved' it somehow? Because of what you may have had in your trunk, or.. what? What part of it led to you somehow deserving to be assaulted?

Rochard

I didn't say that at all - I question the actions of the officer who shot at the mini van. The officer who fired shots a the mini van wasn't the officer who originally pulled the mini van over.

The driver could not have handled the situation any worse. She took a routine traffic stop and turned it into multiple felonies.

I wasn't assaulted; I was pulled over. This wasn't a routine traffic stop, but instead a full felony stop. In my case it wasn't "May I see your driver's licence, sir" but instead was guns drawn, traffic stopped, and I was told to exit the car and put my hands above my head, etc. Once down on the ground I took a good knee to the back and ate some gravel; I wasn't assaulted but instead detained. It wasn't really a pleasant experience; It was the police doing their job.

I did deserve it.

(I should mentioned that the ticket was dropped to a regular speeding ticket, I paid $150 fine, and got a single point on my license.)

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Jel

well rochard, at the time of the post I quoted, you hadn't questioned the shooting cop. And yeah she handled it awfully, but that doesn't mean shots were justified (at least you seem to concede that point now as the thread has gone on).

And wtf, you didn't get assaulted with a knee in the back so you ended up with a face full of gravel AFTER being safely apprehended, but the 14 year old DID assault the cop. Ok, got it. Out of this one as I've been trolled hard yet again by you - you are a fucking master at it for sure

crockett

The woman had NO GUN. The officer was no being assaulted nor was any of the three officers lives at risk when the third cop opened fire. This is not acceptable nor has it ever been acceptable to shoot at a suspect whom is unarmed and fleeing.

Added to this, the woman did not assault the cop, she resisted arrest and acting like a idiot, her son assaulted the cop. The cop clearly fired at the drivers side of the van, knowing the woman was on that side, not the son.

That cop should be facing attempted murder charges right now. If you were assaulted on the side of the road, then the assaulter got into their truck to drive away and you then opened fire as they fled, you would be charged with attempted murder because you are no longer defending yourself.

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bronco67

It's tough to say what the cop should have done. She really did need to step out of the car peacefully and comply, and the situation could go nowhere except to a violent place -- by her own fault. The cop gave her SO MANY chances to play along, but she was being a fucking jack-ass.

That doesn't mean I think shots should have been fired. The cop who made the original stop seemed like the kind of guy who wouldn't do that to minivan full of kids pulling away. I have a feeling he wondered why the hell the other officer was firing his weapon.

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Rochard

I did question it from the start: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19877678&postcount=19

I got a knee in my back and my face pushed down onto the pavement. I didn't get kicked in the back, nor did I get shoved into the pavement. No one physically hit me.

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Rochard

All the officer knew when he fired the shots is that a police officer had been assaulted.

I never said the cop had the right to shoot at the mini van.

So the officer fired on the driver's side of the van hoping to have a bullet go through the kids in the seat and take out the mother? Again, I never said the shooting was justified.

That seems right - but the officer who fired the shots didn't seem to have any situational awareness. He had just arrived at the scene. For all he knew the driver was using her van as a weapon and was attempting to kill a police officer.

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Robbie

Jesus man. Did you even read the article that YOU linked to in your first post? Let me show you:

"The incident began when a woman who police have identified as Oriana Ferrell was pulled over by a New Mexico State Police officer for going 71 miles per hour in a 55 miles per hour zone according to station KRQE-TV in Albuquerque, N.M. "

It was a SPEEDING TICKET Rochard.

The cop had zero ability to work with people. Just like 99% of them these days.

She pulled over after she had initially left the scene and he put his lights on her. So she wasn't fleeing then. She obviously realized that she had done wrong and pulled over. Meaning...she was scared.

He should have calmed her down and made her feel at ease. He is SUPPOSED to be a "public servant". Not our Lord and Master.

Instead he chose to be "tough" with a woman. An armed man bullying her.
Yes, he legally could do that. But he also could have legally calmed her down and defused the situation.

If you have been in as many bars as I have over the years you find out that the best bouncers in a club are the ones who never have to fight. They talk people out of the club and defuse the situation.

This cop is a fucking bully. And as you saw when the other ones showed up...they too were just itching to hurt somebody and show how tough they are.

How DARE a citizen "disobey" their Masters.

As I said earlier...I would OWN that fucking town by the time I got done with them.

And I'm gonna make a guess that several high powered attorneys are already in line to sue that town on behalf of that woman.

Those cops are going to lose their jobs if there is any justice in this world.
And they SHOULD be thrown in jail.

They assaulted that woman, broke the glass on her car windows when her children were scared to death and locked the doors. And then they shot at the mother and children as they fled from that aggression.

They should all be in jail.

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bronco67

There's no way you can think all of this if you watched the entire video.

The cop was actually being cool with her until she turned it into a bad situation. Then the other cops showed up and turned it into an even worse situation.

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MaDalton

i must be an excellent bouncer, i didnt have one single fight ever

(and i would have been seriously fucked if i had to, i have the fighting skills of a 90 year old woman)

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crockett

First you say you aren't arguing that the cop whom shot was in the wrong, then you go on to justify his actions. The very fact that he didn't have situational awareness, should of meant the very last thing he should have done was open fire with a gun. Everything he did was extremely out of line and he should have been fired the moment this video was reviewed.


Look with out the cop shooting at the van with unarmed people including kids, this would of never been a story. Why is it you just blow off the cop that opened fired? If it wasn't for the irresponsible act of that officer shooting at the van, this whole ordeal would have never made national news.

This would of been a blip on a local news station, because it's little more than a typical traffic stop that turned into a short chase. The story is national news only because of the cop that opened fire.

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