so what about the pledge? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

KC · 03-03-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck

I don't respect the flag who so many died for, I respect those who died for it! The way I see it the flag represents the ruling class who got into a fucked up situation and needed the war in the first place. The ones who died are the heros who saved the common people from the danger that the ruling class put us in.

The flag represents the righ, the soldiers represent the common folks. The common folks are what give the rulers their strength, but at the same time the ruling class treats us like shit.

Are you originally from Canada? ;)

RockDaddy · 03-03-2003, 02:33 PM

What places the "person who doesn't want to say a prayer/pledge" rights ahead of those that do??

Either way it goes, someone is deprived.

cluck · 03-03-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RockDaddy
What places the "person who doesn't want to say a prayer/pledge" rights ahead of those that do??

Either way it goes, someone is deprived.

Noone's taking away the rights of those who want to say a prayer or pledge. They just don't want the belief in god to be encouraged or discouraged in the school. Now it's being encouraged because young kids are instructed to say it and led by teachers.

cluck · 03-03-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KC

Are you originally from Canada? ;)

Nope, I'm from New Jersey. Whatever, land is land to me.

FATPad · 03-03-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck

Noone's taking away the rights of those who want to say a prayer or pledge. They just don't want the belief in god to be encouraged or discouraged in the school. Now it's being encouraged because young kids are instructed to say it and led by teachers.

That's stupid.

I said the pledge for years in school and other places when I was young. I'm not religious, and I don't believe in one all powerful god.

KC · 03-03-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RockDaddy
What places the "person who doesn't want to say a prayer/pledge" rights ahead of those that do??

Either way it goes, someone is deprived.

Neither party has the right to put their rights and beliefs ahead of the other. Currently the people that recite the pledge and force others to stand around twidling their thumbs are doing exactly that!

School is a place to learn. It's not a religious day camp. A little more time teaching the three R's and less time endorsing God or a God might help this country out!!

LA Mike · 03-03-2003, 02:45 PM

Pledge allegiance to God.. It could be anyones God.. It didnt say Christian God, or Jewish God... Its for anyones God

KC.... the alah shit was funny dude! lol

cluck · 03-03-2003, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAMike
Pledge allegiance to God.. It could be anyones God.. It didnt say Christian God, or Jewish God... Its for anyones God

KC.... the alah shit was funny dude! lol

But I don't have a god. I think the idea of god is ultimately a bad thing that has a good amount of negative effects on this world. Once the kids start arguing over what god is, then there'll be problems.

I remember when I was young, I had a talk with a jewish girl. This was probably first grade. She said that she was jewish so she didn't believe in jesus. I told her she was going to hell. Imagine the conflict. Then we find out that the school means either one is OK while my parents tell me that jews definetly go to hell by what the bible says. The school should just let religion be a personal thing and not even mention it.

RockDaddy · 03-03-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

The school should just let religion be a personal thing and not even mention it.

I think that is probably not a bad decision. Parents have the freedom to raise their children how they want.

At the same time, I think sexuality should be left to be discussed at home also. Just because little johnny has two dads doesn't mean the school should be telling my kids that it is acceptable.

Since we're on the subject of what should or shouldn't be forced on our kids in school.

cluck · 03-03-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RockDaddy

I think that is probably not a bad decision. Parents have the freedom to raise their children how they want.

At the same time, I think sexuality should be left to be discussed at home also. Just because little johnny has two dads doesn't mean the school should be telling my kids that it is acceptable.

Since we're on the subject of what should or shouldn't be forced on our kids in school.

Though I agree that there's nothing wrong with being gay, that shouldn't be up to the school to tell the kids. Maybe other kids can try and tell each other that, but it's none of the schools business. Teach them about safe sex, how the reproductive system works, and about diseases. Leave emotional matters for the kids to decide.

Danny_C · 03-03-2003, 03:44 PM

I'm not a Christian, my daughter's not a Christian, and I don't want my daughter going to a Christian school. I think it's my right to send my daughter to an open-minded public school rather than one that assumes the existence of Odin or Zeus or this God character.

TheJimmy · 03-03-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dawgy
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/03/pl...eut/index.html

ok, so this ahteist guy sues because he doesnt want his daughter reciting the pledge, because it says "under god" in it... i have no problem with that, its his right.

however, why cant he just have her not recite it? why does it have to be banned, just cuz his kid is an atheist? (not that an elementary kid can make that decision, but thats a whole other thread)

i mean really, it IS voluntary, no one MAKES u say it... if they do, then yes they should be corrected, but i know in school i was never FORCED to recite it, and i doubt kids are today...

am i missing this guy's logic? it is voluntary, why do we need to ban it??

derr

I see you clearly have your logic-hat on....

I want a REFUND on the father's public education bill! he clearly missed some classes that we paid for....

...and now we're having to continuously pay for his stupidity...

JeremySF · 03-03-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

GOD is one of the principles this nation was founded on. FUCK whoever wants to change the U.S. because of their own beliefs.

That's actually not correct. Our forefathers including Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, et al, were all deists.

". the opinions and beliefs of men . . . follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds." - George Washington

steffie · 03-03-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck
I don't think god approves of the porn industry. At least not the "god" that's referred to in the pledge.

Actually stocktrader, that line wasn't even put into the pledge until the 50's. They did that to please the bible belt. If we just said the origional pledge without that line dirtying it up, we wouldn't have these problems.

True True
I was attending a function yesterday at the VFW here and they said the pledge. It was weird for me. I haven't been around people saying it for a long time. When the "under god" part came I just didn't say anything and thought to myself "under heavens"

Nothing wrong with the pledge, however I do think they should remove the "Under God" part since it was not in the original.

Let's get back to basics.

JeremySF · 03-03-2003, 05:14 PM

The ironic thing is I don't really even remember saying it in school, and I moved around a lot. I had to say it in kindergarten and first grade, and I think that was it. Then they just made optional....basically if you wanted to do the pledge of allegience you could do it on your own time.

I'm definitely patriotic but I don't really understand the need for a Pledge of Allegience anyways. I can see why in a authoritarian state like the former Soviet Union or under an empire like the once great British Empire, you'd have to pledge allegience, but in America?? I think it would be more approrproiate to require kids to write an essay on what they love about their country, and how they plan to make it even better when they grow up.

On the other hand, maybe it's a good idea because having to recite a pledge every day in and day out, would make you question why you had to do it in the first place.

cluck · 03-03-2003, 05:17 PM

If you say it's voluntary, look at it this way.

If you get on an opt-in e-mail list you choose to be on it.

If you get on an "opt-out" e-mail list you didn't ask to be on it but by default you get the mails unless you go through the hassle of "opting out" for something you never wanted in the first place.

JeremySF · 03-03-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck
If you say it's voluntary, look at it this way.

If you get on an opt-in e-mail list you choose to be on it.

If you get on an "opt-out" e-mail list you didn't ask to be on it but by default you get the mails unless you go through the hassle of "opting out" for something you never wanted in the first place.

so would you say it's kind of like Spam?

Danny_C · 03-03-2003, 06:39 PM

Yeah, every kid wants to be the one kid not saying "under God" during the pledge, or not saying the pledge. All kids love to be isolated and pegged as non-Christians... especially in small Southern towns.

detoxed · 03-03-2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beemk
yeah just another bitch whining over something that isnt worth whining over. i dont belive in god but i couldnt give a damn about that. what i do think sucks is that you cant buy alcohol before 12 on sundays. its only happened to me once but i was pissed. just because of some church crap.

Thats a local law man... here you cant even buy alcohol outside of city limits (dry counties) and you cant buy alcohol between 12-6am anydays, or AT ALL on Sunday. Also no cold beer sold at gas stations. And this is in a college town.

JeremySF · 03-03-2003, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by detoxed

Thats a local law man... here you cant even buy alcohol outside of city limits (dry counties) and you cant buy alcohol between 12-6am anydays, or AT ALL on Sunday. Also no cold beer sold at gas stations. And this is in a college town.

that f'ing blows....where do you live? Utah?

03-03-2003, 05:14 PM	#65
JeremySF Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,236	The ironic thing is I don't really even remember saying it in school, and I moved around a lot. I had to say it in kindergarten and first grade, and I think that was it. Then they just made optional....basically if you wanted to do the pledge of allegience you could do it on your own time. I'm definitely patriotic but I don't really understand the need for a Pledge of Allegience anyways. I can see why in a authoritarian state like the former Soviet Union or under an empire like the once great British Empire, you'd have to pledge allegience, but in America?? I think it would be more approrproiate to require kids to write an essay on what they love about their country, and how they plan to make it even better when they grow up. On the other hand, maybe it's a good idea because having to recite a pledge every day in and day out, would make you question why you had to do it in the first place. __________________ ICQ: 176050593 / AIM: JerSF2000 "Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer sex raises some pretty good questions." ---------------------------------------------

03-03-2003, 05:17 PM	#66
cluck Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,248	If you say it's voluntary, look at it this way. If you get on an opt-in e-mail list you choose to be on it. If you get on an "opt-out" e-mail list you didn't ask to be on it but by default you get the mails unless you go through the hassle of "opting out" for something you never wanted in the first place. __________________ icq 279990726 www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunity

03-03-2003, 02:33 PM	#52
RockDaddy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 750	What places the "person who doesn't want to say a prayer/pledge" rights ahead of those that do?? Either way it goes, someone is deprived.

03-03-2003, 02:45 PM	#57
LA Mike Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,056	Pledge allegiance to God.. It could be anyones God.. It didnt say Christian God, or Jewish God... Its for anyones God KC.... the alah shit was funny dude! lol

03-03-2003, 03:44 PM	#61
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	I'm not a Christian, my daughter's not a Christian, and I don't want my daughter going to a Christian school. I think it's my right to send my daughter to an open-minded public school rather than one that assumes the existence of Odin or Zeus or this God character.

03-03-2003, 06:39 PM	#68
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	Yeah, every kid wants to be the one kid not saying "under God" during the pledge, or not saying the pledge. All kids love to be isolated and pegged as non-Christians... especially in small Southern towns.