And yet you can't answer my question, Where have I ever praised the GOP?

And name something that Obama has done that has benefited my life?

All that is true and well, but they are also against any type of social safety net, public education system, govt regulations, etc. How would you propose handling those issues?

I agree with that, the GOP is a mess, I left the party after Bush wanted to go after Iraq. I thought is was crazy to go into Afghanistan after what happened when the Soviets tried and lost. We are not equipped for that kind of warfare

Have I ever supported anything Michelle Bachman has done, no!
10 republicans in the senate voted for EDNA


Global warming, brought to us by former VP Al Gore. Couple years ago he bought a beach front house, seems he has a lot of faith in it.

Well here's your mistake on this, that's just new jobs, it doesn't take into effect the amount of people entering the job force for the first time, growth of the job force

When Obama took office labor force was 154,526,000 7.8% unemployment 12,079,000 unemployed
End of September labor force was 155,559,000 7.2% unemployment 11,255,000 unemployed

So the labor force is 33,000 bigger
amount of unemployed people has decreased 807,000

Let's see, the stimulus bill was passed to create jobs, at 787 billion dollars, that's $975,216.85 per person.

I'm pretty good at math, You seem to base it all on a graph, you must love the pictures in the books!
Wow, can you even read, they voted for reforms, with the massive expansion of the program over the last 4 years, it needs it.


Yet you were grouping them as a whole
I rarely attack the Democrats, they are what they are. I go after the leadership, you know the guy that's suppose to represent the nation as a whole, not just his party.
And don't compare other president like it's ok because this guy did this, I don't give a shit, I can about what's going on now!

I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2012. That was Gary Johnson.

1. Johnson on Social Security and Welfare ("social safety net" nope, he's not "against" it):

Raise the retirement age to 70 or 72. (Aug 2012)
A portion of Social Security ought to be privatized. (Aug 2012)
Replace the payroll tax with FairTax. (Feb 2012)
Impose gross income cap on welfare recipients. (Jul 2011)
Maintain federal Social Services Block Grant funding. (Sep 2001)
Maintain flexibility & funding levels for TANF block grants. (Sep 2001)

2.Johnson on education (and no, he is NOT "against" public education):

Public education system needs major reform. (Aug 2012)
Vouchers OK for church childcare & church schools. (Aug 2012)
$3,500 voucher for every K-12 student. (Aug 2012)
Vouchers are as constitutional as pre-school and day-care. (Aug 2012)
Competition would make our schools better. (Aug 2012)
I support evolution; but no federal involvement. (May 2012)

3. Johnson on "Govt. Regulations" (there is really no way to address that...he isn't "Against" govt. regs at all...he thinks that there are too many of them and they are intrusive):

Opposes Net Neutrality; no government regulation of Internet. (Jul 2011)
No compromise on clean air, but no cap-and-trade.

4. Johnson on "etc.":

I don't know what that means. You are basically saying he is "against" things when the reality is he is FOR freedom of the individual as much as possible.
Libertarianism is about getting the Federal govt. out of our lives as much as possible to enrich society...not hurt it.

Remember what Thomas Paine said: "Government, even in it's best state is a necessary evil; in it's worst state, an intolerable one"

That's kind of what I think too. Instead of the govt. being a gigantic monstrosity that runs our lives...it should be a small entity that serves our needs and doesn't spend one more penny than it absolutely has to in order to accomplish that.

A libertarian is not going to be elected President but even if he were to be elected...it would make little if any difference as the President has very little domestic power and cannot make law...so a Libertarian President and 535 Democrats and Republicans in the two houses of Congress means we will still have the same policies as we have now.

That's true.

I also voted for the Libertarian candidates in my state elections and local elections for that very reason.

If enough people get fed up and stop voting for Republicans and Democrats it WILL change over time.

I'm sure the Democrats were surprised when the "Whig Party" (4 Presidents were members of that party) came to power over them in the early 19th century as well.

And I'm sure that the Whig's themselves never thought that THEY would be gone.

Things can change. Right now the Democrats and Republicans have made laws that pretty much make it almost impossible for a third party candidate to get elected.
But IF a third party ever gets into the White House, then it will make that party viable to the sheeple and then Congress and the Senate will start getting them too.

Let me try this again:

So why are you against proportional representation? Seems like it would help the Libertarian cause. :2 cents:

:stoned

ADG

That is what I have always said..."government of the people...by the people...for the people. The key is "if enough people get fed up". An unengaged electorate gets the government they deserve.

Recently one poll showed the Congress with a 5% approval rating. To me this would indicate that 95% of those up for reelection will not be reelected but I suspect that the numbers will be closer to being reversed and 95% will be reelected.

This is a great point. People often say they want change, but they really don't. Also, many people look at problems with the attitude of, "You are messing this up, not me."

So many people feel that congress sucks, but their actual congressman is good so many of these people will get reelected.

Add in that only about half of those who are eligible to vote actually do and it is no wonder why the same people keep getting elected. If you know that only half of those eligible will vote and you only need half of those votes to win you only have to convince about 26% of the people to vote for you and you win.

I saw that poll...

The fucked up thing is this: They asked the people in the poll if they thought that the Congress and Senate should all be voted out, and people responded "Yes", BUT not THEIR Senators and Congressmen. :(

You really are being willfully ignorant.

You don't deserve an answer from me, but I'm generous and will give you one anyway.

The reason that no third party candidate got many votes is because the Republicans & Democrats are in control of the govt.
And in that role, they have passed legislation that makes it nearly impossible for a third party candidate to get elected.

It's pretty simple. They have rigged the system.

The only third party candidates that even get to be a blip on the radar are the ones with millions of dollars of their own money to waste. And I say "waste", because even if they spend all that money to get on the ballot...the 2 RULING parties won't allow them to be in the main Pres. debates on the major networks.

Most people don't even realize that they have any choice but the Republican and the Democrat.

But you just keep ignoring that and insulting me over and over in your snide little way that insinuates that you think you're smarter than I am.
You just look foolish to me.

Politicians are all crooks by the way.

IF the Libertarians ever do grow as a party and get into power...I'd give them less than a decade before they too would be corrupt and useless.

That's why I am for "one and done" term limits for EVERY position in govt.

Get those lifetime/career politicians OUT of our lives.

If you read my post, I wasn't arguing with you. I was pointing out how proportional representation voting could help small parties like the Libertarian gain more power at every level of government.



http://www.boykotx.org/wp-content/up...ion-Voting.jpg

Seriously, I'm not sure how proportional representation is incompatible with Libertarianism.

http://www.fairvote.org/

As far as your one-and-done idea, I respectfully disagree, since I don't think that is a solution in and of itself, but merely a reactionary response to symptoms of the problem.

:stoned

ADG

ADG...you are the only one talking about "proportional representation" in this discussion. And you have sprinkled your posts with insulting pics and remarks.

Of course the "winner takes all" is bullshit. But that is something that the Republicans and Democrats in each state have set up.
I have already addressed that the two RULING parties have done everything in their power to KEEP power.

Don't be so dense. You keep harping about one tiny part of their scam. I'm talking about a bigger picture.

And no... one-term term limits are NOT a "reactionary" response to a "symptom" of a problem.
Lifetime politicians ARE the problem.

And people who keep voting for the same 2 parties over and over and expect something different to happen are also the problem.

What would the Founding Fathers do?!?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/13...9da932b3f0.jpg

So, if you mandate that elected officials serve only one term, and tell people that they can't vote for the party they like, even if they really like it better than what the Libertarians have to offer, then the Libertarians will come to power. Yeah, that makes sense. :upsidedow

We should apply your one-and-done theory to other aspects of society too. Who needs people with experience, or who have learned how to deal with complex budgets, projects, and problems? Let's just replace knowledgeable experienced people with new people every four years because, well, just because, and things are sure to get better. :helpme

I guess that I am not understanding how under the current rules, the Libertarian party is going to ever get close to power, when the best they can muster after 40+ years as a political party is 1% of the vote (and this is during a time of widespread discontent). The Libertarian party has fared pretty badly at every other level of elective government too.

Fair representation voting proposes a system that if implemented would almost certainly gain the Libertarian party some percentage of representation in Congress, then Libertarians could actually get elected and try to test out some of their slogans, and see what it's really like trying to operate government.

However, because I dare mocked your beloved Libertarian party for being ineffectual, you took great umbrage and therefore refuse to consider the concept that I advanced which would help the Libertarian party. That's what I meant about Libertarians often being their own worst enemy.

When I mock the Libertarian party, it is partly because many Libertarians whom I encounter appear to like to feel as if they are somehow pure and above the fray, and their ideas are so blindingly brilliant and obvious to themselves, that gosh darn it, if only 49% more of the sheeple that vote would just wake up, and give the Libertarians more than the 1% of the vote they currently reside at, all would be better overnight.

Running on widespread discontent with the status quo will only get you so far, then you have to have ideas that people will embrace, and frankly the Libertarian party platform is pretty short on viable solutions (isolationism, unchecked capitalism, barebones/minimal government, etc) - they're very much like their conservative cousins in the Tea Party (although I realize the two groups diverge in a big way regarding abortion, drugs, etc).

Tell me what you find objectionable about Proportional Representation presented in the following video:

How & Why Other Countries have Ended the 2-Party System:



http://www.fairvote.org/assets/Uploa...fographics.jpg

http://www.fairvote.org/

:stoned

ADG

So this is the best you have? All this blowhard rambling and you can't come up with anything to show that you are nothing more than a simpleton hater.

So you can't answer my question I take it?

Typical liberal response is calling me a racist, or a hater when you have nothing.

Here's the question, can't be that hard, what has Obama done that has benefited me?

Or at least show me where I praised the GOP for something they did?

According to you his first day in office he made it so you cannot sell cigarettes online anymore.

Here we are 6 years later and you're still crying about it.

:1orglaugh

Amen Bro....



.:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup



.

Oh there you are sweet pea, I was wondering where you were, internet go down in Colorado?

If people are calling you racist....


I don't know you personally so I can't say for sure, but here's a few things that might have affected you:

Let's see he um, CAUGHT BIN LADEN for one...

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Cut prescription drug cost for medicare recipients by 50%

Appointed more openly gay officials than any other president in US history

Eliminated subsidies to private lender middlemen of student loans and protect student borrowers

Increased funding for national parks and forests by 10%

Significantly expanded Pell grants, which help low-income students pay for college

Gave more money to companies involved in private space flight programs, helping companies like SpaceX and Virgin Galactic.

Signed financial reform law establishing a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to look out for the interests of everyday Americans

Signed financial reform law requiring lenders to verify applicants' credit history, income, and employment status

Signed financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading (trading the bank's own money to turn a profit, often in conflict with their customers' interests)

Signed financial reform law allowing shareholders of publicly traded companies to vote on executive pay

Reversed 'global gag rule', allowing US aid to go to organizations regardless of whether they provide abortions

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, restoring basic protections against pay discrimination for women and other workers

Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB (PRETTY FUCKING COOL)

Reversed the policy of barring media coverage during the return of fallen soldiers to Dover Air Force Base. (And who put this law in in the first place? That Son of a bitch DUBYA).

Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research (Why did Bush put this in place in the first place? Because he bent-over and took it up the ass by the Christian fucktards which he is still doing today btw)

and on and on and on.... You really need to stop complaining about this president of yours and help him out. Stop listening to Fox & Friends and get people you know to stop tuning it to fat fucks like Rush Limbaugh. By all means still read, watch and listen with a critical ear, but stop believing all the shit from the far right. They are insane.

LOL! Very misleading.

When most people are already EMPLOYED then you don't need to "create jobs" (which by the way...no President has ever "created jobs" other than hiring his own staff)

During the "Bush years"...let's just call it most of the 2000's because Bush didn't have anything to do with jobs either, unemployment was basically non-existant.

The unemployment rate was under 4% in 2001, averaged around 6% in 2002, 2003, and 2004.
One of the reasons for the rise in 2002, 03, and 04 was the "Internet Bubble" burst.
Averaged around 5% for 2005, 2006, and 2007.

Google it and educate yourself.

He personally caught them? um, I thought it was the Navy Seals, although he never gave any credit to them directly other than saying the servicemen, he gave a lot of credit to himself
I'm calling Bullshit, unemployment insurance is still at 7.3, actual numbers are a lot higher
I'm not on medicare
Gays are more open now, but then Barry was against Gay Marriage in the beginning. I'm not gay, so it has nothing to do with me
I'm not a student
That's bullshit, I know for a fact that more and more national forests and parks are being privatized
Not a student
And NASA is what?

Did they look, what did they find? They didn't protect us from the lies of Barry about Obamacare!
Every time I have ever applied for credit, they looked at those things

And because of the 85 billion a month they are printing up of new money, they are recording record profits, just like before the housing bubble popped
So those with the most shares get the most votes? Perfect!

No effect for me
Yeah, Russia got everythiing they asked for, we lost big time

Again, no effect on me
Cool, yes, but no effect on me, even if my daughter was still in, I would fly there before any approval
Sorry, I don't think it's right for the news to show soldiers caskets. They deserve more respect than to be used for political gain
Still doesn't effect me, although I think we should have had it all along. I have a friend that gets it, but he can't get his funds into the US right now because of rules that Barry out in place

I think you're naive.

NSA is spying on Canadians
IRS is targeting what the democratic party is telling them to target
We were lied to by the president about Obamacare about keeping our policies, almost 5 million people are losing their policies, which means they will lose their doctors as well.
The FDA is down in Mexico showing Mexican Nationals how to use US food Stamps.

Yes, of course they'll still consider him after this. They'll consider him right up to the point where he is caught having sex with a male intern, which may or may not ever happen or come out. I'm just saying up to what point I think they'll still consider him.

I think he'll be yesterday's news though by the time it rolls around. Like what's his name who read Dr. Seuss books while shutting down the government for no reason.

**********, let me sum up politics in the United States for you.

The more an American pays in taxes, the greater the likelihood of him feeling he should have influence over how the government should operate. Call it Entitlement.

This American is prone to anger when government funds are used to raise the quality life for people who pay less taxes than him. Keep in mind, the rage is proportional to how much tax is paid.

Everything will be fine when he makes enough money to lobby that rage into submission.

Until then, everything is not fine.

Fortunately, the Internet now allows him to release his rage by assassinating the character of those politicians he disagrees with.

Unfortunately for him, as evidenced in the last 3 presidential elections, the politician on the receiving end of the most character assassination usually wins.

It's the reason why Kerry and Edwards were barely defeated even when Bush was so disliked. They stood for nothing.

It's the reason why McCain and Palin got their asses handed to them. Their entire campaign was nothing but character assassination.

It's the reason why Obama got relected. Romney and Ryan and the rest of the GOP served up nothing but visions of Armageddon.

But the American never learns, always convinced that his rantings and ravings are changing minds instead of reinforcing them.

THE END

Are your stances on everything based on a narcissistic world view, that says if something doesn't affect you, then it doesn't matter or shouldn't exist? I have great healthcare that I'll be keeping, but that doesn't mean I think no one else should have a shot at it. I'm not gay, but I'll cheer them on in their fight for equal rights. I'm no longer a student, but I don't think it helps the country in any way if students are deep in debt because college costs are so astronomical.

I gave a question that couldn't be answered.

I'm not Narcissistic, If I were, why would I care to speak up?

I never said people shouldn't get healthcare, but I have said several times that Obamacare has problems, considering that no republicans voted for it and the head democratic said we'll see what's in it after we vote for it. A good law would have more support, or do you disagree with that? Or you think that telling the American people lies to get it passed is OK?

People can go to a community college that's not that expensive, then get loans and grants for the last two years at a university. That's how my daughter is doing it and is about to graduate. She has held a job the entire time. And she's going to a very good university.

You just want me to stop telling you that you are wrong!