How to get a developer on board.

[Dankasaur]

I had just read this on Reddit about app development, and really this applies to websites too.. Good read and highly suggest taking a lot of stuff into consideration.

TL;DR: There are a lot of risks involved in the web business. Software developers already make good coin and are in high demand without taking on huge risks. Any return for the developer would have to be huge to make good financial sense.

Getting a developer to work on a project is easy; pay them. But I assume you're asking how to get a developer to work for free for a share of the profits down the line. Most people who have never hired a developer try that route first. Very very few developers will ever agree to work on those terms. For me personally I have only agreed to do that for family, and only when I truly believed in the idea and I still collected a small wage to mitigate some risk.

Here's why it doesn't work that way:

• The vast majority of websites don't make money, even ones that are good ideas and well written.
• 99.99% of "ideas" are utter shit, unoriginal, impractical, or can't be monetized.
• Most people who have "ideas" are completely devoid of any business sense and look at the website as a get rich quick scheme. It really has become today's modern version of "waiting for my insurance settlement to go through."
• People completely undervalue the worth and magnitude of work "making an website" entails. I once had a guy try and pitch me a partnership in his business. In exchange for single-handedly developing his entire line of products (months to years worth of work), website and handling all support I would get 5% ownership in the business (which had zero sales, and wasn't even incorporated yet). These people are always tire kickers and dead-ends. Once they're educated on the cost, time and technical challenges of making a website, their illusion of the "get rich quick" scheme falls apart and they disappear into the woodwork.
• Virtually everyone overestimates the value of their idea. It's quite common for people to value just the idea at a ludicrous 7 figure number. Ideas are just ideas, they're a dime a dozen. It's having a good idea AND good execution that gets you to the finish line. That second part is a lot tougher than the first part.
• Even if all the stars align and you have a good idea, and you have a good developer, and you have a good understanding of the business, and you accomplish everything you set out to accomplish, chances are you will still fail. To achieve wild success you need a fair bit of luck on your side.
• Almost all of the top websites are actually "re-imagined" versions of other websites. One of my favourite quotes from Shark Tank/Dragons Den is "Pioneers get slaughtered, and the settlers prosper." There's a lot of truth to this in virtually every industry including the porn industry. It's very common for a mildly successful website to get knocked off, polished up and published by a larger developer who has the resources to properly advertise it. Honestly it's so common that the people who do this aren't even trying to make them look different anymore.
• As a reference, the average salary of a developer is 130k/year. A good freelancer can easily make upwards of 200k. If you want someone to dedicate a few months (or more) of their time for free at that wage, the return has to be phenomenal to outweigh the risks I mentioned above and still make good financial sense.

* original is here talking about apps, but in reality this applies to websites too.

[Mutt]

[fris]

pussy lips

[_Richard_]

cool article

[arock10]

Hey bro I have this great idea it's like combining twitter and Facebook. How about you code it all and ill give you 30% of the profits

[Bman]

Originally Posted by Mutt

seriously those are fucking great!
is that a program that does those?

[Webmaster Advertising]

Originally Posted by arock10

Hey bro I have this great idea it's like combining twitter and Facebook. How about you code it all and ill give you 30% of the profits

Is it called, Facebook? LOL

We hear so many stupid ideas like this on a weekly basis.

The best one yet was one where this chick in Atlanta wanted to launch a new Craigslist, except it was going to be all video based ads not text.

If someone didn't have a video, they couldn't post their ad, it was touted as being 'face to face business' instead of anonymous'.

We explained that most people don't actually know how to create their own videos and she basically turned around and said that they 'weren't the clients' she wanted.

Never heard from her again after the initial sales call.

[Dankasaur]

Originally Posted by Mutt

That's awesome!

Originally Posted by arock10

Hey bro I have this great idea it's like combining twitter and Facebook. How about you code it all and ill give you 30% of the profits

For you, I'll do it for 15%

[livexxx]

Originally Posted by Dankasaur

But I assume you're asking how to get a developer to work for free for a share of the profits down the line.

AND if it does work, you are locked into their code, written in the most complex framework, because they can, with no one having any idea of how it works other than them. Then all the arguments start about rewriting it all in Ruby or something because that is a good idea, instead of concentrating on the product and service. Basically you are gifting away your profit to what is just a commodity service. Software Developers should be treated just as their title suggests, as a development service for which they are very good at.

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by livexxx

AND if it does work, you are locked into their code, written in the most complex framework, because they can, with no one having any idea of how it works other than them. Then all the arguments start about rewriting it all in Ruby or something because that is a good idea, instead of concentrating on the product and service. Basically you are gifting away your profit to what is just a commodity service. Software Developers should be treated just as their title suggests, as a development service for which they are very good at.

That's because there are too many fucking programming languages.

But not just that... every few years there is a new language that is "in style" and that is what the schools teach and what young nerds spend their time learning because they think it will improve their chances of getting a high-paying job.

(FYI, the only developers you'll get to work for shares/revshare are kids who are out of school or self-taught youngins.)

I've seen C, Pascal, BASIC, C++, Perl, Ruby, Python, PHP, Lua, ASP, ASPX, C#, and on and on go in and out of style. I mean.. who the fuck cares.

All of these frameworks are nothing but globs of glue to make the various languages work together (like using C/C++ libs from PHP from example). It does nothing but make the software bloated and horribly complicated.

All that complexity causes bugs (sometimes unfixable or intermittent ones that are frustrating as hell), and security problems.

So my input here is somewhere between #youredoingitwrong and #fail.

Don't even get me started on XML, JSON, SOAP vs HTTP(S) for shuttling data for APIs or I'll be ranting all day.. lol

[Dankasaur]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

Don't even get me started on XML, JSON, SOAP vs HTTP(S) for shuttling data for APIs or I'll be ranting all day.. lol

Please do, I want to see if that is as absurd as your languages rant.

[PhoneSexKing]

Feeding the trolls...

[Dankasaur]

Ah yes. I'm a troll.

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by Dankasaur

Ah yes. I'm a troll.

Great. The first step is to admit that you have a problem.

[livexxx]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

I've seen C, Pascal, BASIC, C++, Perl, Ruby, Python, PHP, Lua, ASP, ASPX, C#, and on and on go in and out of style. I mean.. who the fuck cares.

Developers sadly think it is about programming, hence the problem of getting one on board in a rev share basis.

[Why]

funny how many programmers say "no programmer will ..." or "all programmers ..."

also interesting how much ego there is in programming. i guess in an art that has a million ways to skin a cat, its easy to argue yours is always the best way and everyone else is wrong.

[Markul]

Originally Posted by Why

funny how many programmers say "no programmer will ..." or "all programmers ..."

also interesting how much ego there is in programming. i guess in an art that has a million ways to skin a cat, its easy to argue yours is always the best way and everyone else is wrong.

You are aware that the OP is banned right? He won't reply (on that nick at least)

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Is it called, Facebook? LOL

We hear so many stupid ideas like this on a weekly basis.

The best one yet was one where this chick in Atlanta wanted to launch a new Craigslist, except it was going to be all video based ads not text.

If someone didn't have a video, they couldn't post their ad, it was touted as being 'face to face business' instead of anonymous'.

We explained that most people don't actually know how to create their own videos and she basically turned around and said that they 'weren't the clients' she wanted.

Never heard from her again after the initial sales call.

Not the worst idea. I have seen plenty of startups featured on techcrunch that made way less sense than this one.
By the way there is one website where you can only sell things if you upload a photo of both yourself and that thing in it. Also something about face to face approach.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

That's because there are too many fucking programming languages.

But not just that... every few years there is a new language that is "in style" and that is what the schools teach and what young nerds spend their time learning because they think it will improve their chances of getting a high-paying job.

(FYI, the only developers you'll get to work for shares/revshare are kids who are out of school or self-taught youngins.)

I've seen C, Pascal, BASIC, C++, Perl, Ruby, Python, PHP, Lua, ASP, ASPX, C#, and on and on go in and out of style. I mean.. who the fuck cares.

All of these frameworks are nothing but globs of glue to make the various languages work together (like using C/C++ libs from PHP from example). It does nothing but make the software bloated and horribly complicated.

All that complexity causes bugs (sometimes unfixable or intermittent ones that are frustrating as hell), and security problems.

So my input here is somewhere between #youredoingitwrong and #fail.

Don't even get me started on XML, JSON, SOAP vs HTTP(S) for shuttling data for APIs or I'll be ranting all day.. lol

.

[gracesfall]

Originally Posted by Dankasaur

[*]As a reference, the average salary of a developer is 130k/year. A good freelancer can easily make upwards of 200k. If you want someone to dedicate a few months (or more) of their time for free at that wage, the return has to be phenomenal to outweigh the risks I mentioned above and still make good financial sense.

* original is here talking about apps, but in reality this applies to websites too.

In what world does a web developer make 130k / year? I've been doing designing, developing and marketing websites for just over 16 years and I've never even made HALF that in a year.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by gracesfall

In what world does a web developer make 130k / year? I've been doing designing, developing and marketing websites for just over 16 years and I've never even made HALF that in a year.

U must not be anygood then

[gracesfall]

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

U must not be anygood then

I'm actually pretty solid. Not the best - there's always someone better - but good. I also bring a lot more to the table than just development. BUT it's also just me AND I work strictly offsite, so I've lost a lot of gigs because of that.

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by gracesfall

In what world does a web developer make 130k / year? I've been doing designing, developing and marketing websites for just over 16 years and I've never even made HALF that in a year.

Wow, is this a troll? I don't know any talented developers not making six figures.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by gracesfall

I'm actually pretty solid. Not the best - there's always someone better - but good. I also bring a lot more to the table than just development. BUT it's also just me AND I work strictly offsite, so I've lost a lot of gigs because of that.

Six Figures for a experienced developer is very easy here in NY , of course certain specialties are more and some less...

There are companies out here who cant even find enough "talent" to fill the jobs in certain fields

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

Wow, is this a troll? I don't know any talented developers not making six figures.

good lolol I thought I was the only one heheeh at least I know we are thinking the same

[Juicy D. Links]

Ruby Developer
New York City, NY; Manhattan, NY
Full-Time $100,000 - $140,000

----------------
Company
Cypress Group
Location
New York City, NY 10017
Industries
Computer Software
Job Type
Full Time
Employee
Years of Experience
2+​ to 5 Years
Education Level
Bachelor's Degree
Career Level
Experienced (Non-Manager)
Salary
110,000.​00 - 135,000.​00 $ /​year
bonuses

-----------------



Sailpoint Developer
Company:the atlantic group•$100,000 - $125,000

[Juicy D. Links]

C# Asp.net Engineer at Asset Management Company
Company:The Astor Group (main car...•$100,000 - $135,000


=================



Software Developer-Financial Services - .NET, C#, Web Applicatio
Company:CyberCoders•$80,000 - $130,000

[gracesfall]

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

Six Figures for a experienced developer is very easy here in NY , of course certain specialties are more and some less...

There are companies out here who cant even find enough "talent" to fill the jobs in certain fields

That's NY. Salary ranges aren't quite as lucrative down here in Florida.

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by gracesfall

That's NY. Salary ranges aren't quite as lucrative down here in Florida.

I'm in FL, and can ASSURE you that they are. There's almost zero competition here. Most of the developers in Tampa are friggin' Windows developers or app developers. Quality PHP developers (or, gasp, programmers) are worth their weight in gold.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

I'm in FL, and can ASSURE you that they are. There's almost zero competition here. Most of the developers in Tampa are friggin' Windows developers or app developers. Quality PHP developers (or, gasp, programmers) are worth their weight in gold.

yeah man i think unless u r in bumblebuckville usa then a good paying dev job wont b hard