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-   -   Germans go ballistic today about NSA wiretapping Chancellor Merkels mobile phone... (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1124318)

_Richard_ 10-24-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19847068)
Well, that's not really true, is it? Did they have a bug in the UN, or did they tap into a video feed outside of the US? Seems they penetrated the video conferencing software of the EU office. I don't see where.

International law? Really? That's the entire point of the CIA - to break the laws of other countries. All of them do it.

Here's what Snowden told us:

According to the documents, the NSA runs a bugging program in more than 80 embassies and consulates worldwide called 'Special Collection Service'. 'The surveillance is intensive and well organized and has little or nothing to do with warding off terrorists,' wrote Der Spiegel.

Fucking wonderful. Twenty years of work, billions of dollars, down the tube because of Snowden.

it's ok man.

American Gladiator is on.

bhutocracy 10-24-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 19847046)
sorry, are you talking about the sale to canada?

The US cripples it's military sales to all it's allies so no one has parity, in this case I'm talking about the Hornets sold to Australia that had a useless radar that wouldn't even recognize threats in our region. The US made sales and tax revenue for their military corporation, we spied and hacked and got the shit working as we needed. Everyone wins.

bhutocracy 10-24-2013 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel (Post 19847062)
what cracks me up in this thread is intelligent people who think the issue is that people are naive if they think this sort of thing doesn't happen, rather than the real issue being that it happens, regardless if 1, some, many, or all are doing it.

I never thought I'd use the term brainwashed by governments on a board like gfy, but holy fuck, it's jaw-dropping to see. Goes hand in hand (and this really isn't any kind of dig at those who are patriotic - it's a dig at those who make sure you think you need to be, overly so) with the way most americans are brought up regarding patriotism - from how many outside the US observe it, anyway. This mantra that you need to 'serve' your country no matter what, even if that service is believing the bullshit it feeds you so it can do what it needs to: stay in power another term.

Here's what anyone 'owes' their country: fuck all. Especially not some roll over and tickle my tummy blind loyalty no matter what.

That people are naive for thinking that it doesn't happen and that it's an issue that it happens at all aren't mutually exclusive arguments. That spying is an "issue" is also an issue of degrees, in the real world without rainbow shitting unicorns some level of spying is necessary, it's an emergent property of human interaction, the argument is really about what that level and on whom should be.

Deputy Chief Command 10-24-2013 06:39 PM

can we keep this kind of boring political discussions off gfy? go to some specialized board (bored)

Barry-xlovecam 10-24-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

You have no idea what you are talking about.
LMAO

Well, November 22, then ...

The court could rule for the government again too -- I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

They rigged the game anyway a long time ago.

Talk about counter spin http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...e6c_story.html


I don't think the bullshitters know who is bullshiting them anymore.
Quote:

Frankly, I honestly don't give a shit. I signed up for a UPS account today and had to cough up my name and address.
WTF, does that have to do with any of this escapes me?
UPS is going to be collecting the addresses you send/receive to?
Should the US Government be able to access that data with no reasonable suspicion or probable cause for a warrant. You probably could care less and you probably have no reason to protest.
Big brother is watching ...

notinmybackyard 10-25-2013 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 19846847)
http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/getty_ows2013.jpg

or does this not count because they're 'entitled'?

Did you notice how many people in that photo are over 50 years old ?

JFK 10-25-2013 01:17 AM

I wuz here............ again ........ just keepin an I on you guys :pimp

Jel 10-25-2013 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy (Post 19847151)
That people are naive for thinking that it doesn't happen and that it's an issue that it happens at all aren't mutually exclusive arguments. That spying is an "issue" is also an issue of degrees, in the real world without rainbow shitting unicorns some level of spying is necessary, it's an emergent property of human interaction, the argument is really about what that level and on whom should be.

Maybe I shoulda worded it that it blows my mind how people in general go from 1 thing into another to gloss over the 1st issue. And yeah, though surely this particular discussion is about specifically tapping merkel's phone. Well, it should be, but obviously it was never going to stay about that after about the 5th post, where the normal deflection/sidetracking/etc comes in, because that's just what people do.

It was late for me when posting and I guess I let my frustration at seeing how pretty much every argument/discussion pans out, out.

Carry on everyone :thumbsup

Rochard 10-25-2013 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19847166)

LMAO

Well, November 22, then ...

The court could rule for the government again too -- I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

They rigged the game anyway a long time ago.

Talk about counter spin http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...e6c_story.html


I don't think the bullshitters know who is bullshiting them anymore.


WTF, does that have to do with any of this escapes me?
UPS is going to be collecting the addresses you send/receive to?
Should the US Government be able to access that data with no reasonable suspicion or probable cause for a warrant. You probably could care less and you probably have no reason to protest.
Big brother is watching ...

All you are doing is posting up nonsense links, court cases not about how the NSA has broken the law, but how the ACLU believes the law reads. Big difference. I have to yet that "Mr. Blah illegally accessed someone's information on this date and got this information". Hasn't happened yet.

My comment about UPS is... While everyone is concerned about big brother, no one cares what anyone else is doing. UPS - a company I rarely use - has been tracking me for the past twenty years and and can tell me what streets I lived on fifteen years ago. That's fucking scary. Eventually, the US Government / law enforcement will never need to get a warrant. They will just buy the information legally from some business.

Paul 10-25-2013 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19846225)
The german government uses encrypted phones btw - but how safe is it when the NSA eventually forces the manufacturer to hand over the keys

They don't need to do that, the NSA have quantum computers and can crack every encryption protocol that exists on the planet & they now have quantum encryption which is (currently) impossible to crack.

One rule for USA, another rule for everyone else

Gotta respect it :pimp

No such thing is right and wrong, just winners and losers

_Richard_ 10-25-2013 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard (Post 19847349)
Did you notice how many people in that photo are over 50 years old ?

because it is one photo.. trust me there way more than enough of the younger generation present

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy (Post 19847137)
The US cripples it's military sales to all it's allies so no one has parity, in this case I'm talking about the Hornets sold to Australia that had a useless radar that wouldn't even recognize threats in our region. The US made sales and tax revenue for their military corporation, we spied and hacked and got the shit working as we needed. Everyone wins.

thanks, they sold us planes around the same time.. curious

dyna mo 10-25-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard (Post 19846747)
30 years ago this sort of thing would have caused riots in the streets.
Today the only way anyone will take to the streets is for a new Iphone.

The sad truth is that 99% of the population is just to pathetically stupid to care.

not so sure about that. 30 years ago = 1983

i think the truth of the matter is 99% of all populations want to be happy and not have to worry about bullshit like wiretapping a foreign dignitary.

Paul 10-25-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19847742)
I think the truth of the matter is 99% of all populations want to be happy and not have to worry about bullshit like wiretapping a foreign dignitary.

Ignorance is bliss :thumbsup

http://www.atheistexile.com/wp-conte...trixChoice.jpg

dyna mo 10-25-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 19847765)

we all want to be happy, nothing wrong with that. which usually means a simple life, less complicated. enjoy the day. just because the gov mucks shit up and over-complicates life doesn't mean everyone is supposed to stay 100% smart on everything from the german chancellor to the latest hurricane to break-throughs in physics to the tax code, ip law, etc. et al, on & on.


smart people are not any better, happier, successful, etc. many are less so, because they feel the need to run around and be smart all the time. that's a lot of work chasing down internet factoids
.

i have a similar diatribe on multi-tasking, it's way over-rated and over-emphasised. and few people succeed at it.

klinton 10-25-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 19847656)
They don't need to do that, the NSA have quantum computers and can crack every encryption protocol that exists on the planet & they now have quantum encryption which is (currently) impossible to crack.

no, they don't...and your posts is illogical...

Jel 10-25-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19847823)
we all want to be happy, nothing wrong with that. which usually means a simple life, less complicated. enjoy the day. just because the gov mucks shit up and over-complicates life doesn't mean everyone is supposed to stay 100% smart on everything from the german chancellor to the latest hurricane to break-throughs in physics to the tax code, ip law, etc. et al, on & on.


smart people are not any better, happier, successful, etc. many are less so, because they feel the need to run around and be smart all the time. that's a lot of work chasing down internet factoids
.

i have a similar diatribe on multi-tasking, it's way over-rated and over-emphasised. and few people succeed at it.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

notinmybackyard 10-25-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 19847721)
because it is one photo.. trust me there way more than enough of the younger generation present

It is not exactly same as trying to levitate pentagon or la « nuit des barricades. »

I had been at both events and unfortunately the old hippie revolutionaire mentality has never left me. So because of this I was very much sadden when I visited the Occupy mouvement in NY when the idiots had a moment of silence for the human garbage called Steve Jobs. I am sure that even Abby Hoffman's ghost called it quits at that moment.

Any respect or hope I had for this generation left me that day. As I am certain that it did for the most die hard drugged hippies still hanging around from the sixties.

I know I am what is called jaded but from what I am seeing the majority of people today are weak and illiterate self-absorbed morons that paradoxically believe themselves to be super intelligent and super great.

_Richard_ 10-25-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard (Post 19848005)
It is not exactly same as trying to levitate pentagon or la « nuit des barricades. »

I had been at both events and unfortunately the old hippie revolutionaire mentality has never left me. So because of this I was very much sadden when I visited the Occupy mouvement in NY when the idiots had a moment of silence for the human garbage called Steve Jobs. I am sure that even Abby Hoffman's ghost called it quits at that moment.

Any respect or hope I had for this generation left me that day. As I am certain that it did for the most die hard drugged hippies still hanging around from the sixties.

I know I am what is called jaded but from what I am seeing the majority of people today are weak and illiterate self-absorbed morons that paradoxically believe themselves to be super intelligent and super great.

which is ironic.

cause you see something, make an assumption and conclusion based on what you see in more than three different locations

and then consider your assumption fact.

enjoy your retirement

we won't.

notinmybackyard 10-25-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 19848007)
which is ironic.

cause you see something, make an assumption and conclusion based on what you see in more than three different locations

and then consider your assumption fact.

enjoy your retirement

we won't.

Who said I am retired and I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.

tripplexwebcams 10-25-2013 11:28 AM

Interesting article :)

2012 10-25-2013 11:33 AM

who loves ya baby
 
http://i.imgur.com/YY0r0QT.jpg


Yanks_Todd 10-25-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19846183)

That is absolutely one step to far. I don't get too ballistic about the NSA monitoring. Maybe I should, but I have always assumed electronic communication would be scanned at a base level for "red flags". However spying on other leaders of friendly countries is just embarrassing.

_Richard_ 10-25-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard (Post 19848021)
Who said I am retired and I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.

no one did, you said you were of the hippie generation, which means you retired in 10-20 years?

there is a good chance our generatino is looking at a 80-100 retirement.

http://www.generationme.org/genmetitle.jpg

http://ed_wp-content_v2.s3.amazonaws...00-600x400.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...8dOexAG4OScFDw

three 'separate' sources, making it a 'common idea'.

however :) you really wanna split hairs on who is more self involved, lets talk about the generation who is leaving 948 billion dollar deficit

Barry-xlovecam 10-25-2013 12:06 PM

This whole thing is a big can of worms.
 
Here is another link for you ...

So, no of this matters ??? :upsidedow

Trading off NSA privacy breech concerns:

Quote:

Firefox Plug-In Shows Who Is Tracking You
http://www.cio-today.com/news/Firefo...d=12100EMH35UQ

[T]here have been a few clunky tools providing similar services in the past, but Lightbeam appears to be the easiest way to see who is tracking you. Lightbeam provides information in various ways but all of it is in real-time Relevant Products/Services.

Privacy Concerns

Cookies placed on someone's computer by an advertiser may well be beneficial from a business perspective. However, with many of these same companies potentially working with the National Security Agency, Internet users are concerned about their browsing habits being released to a government agency.

At the same time, some people simply dislike the idea of being tracked at all, even if it is only for advertising purposes. With Lightbeam being incredibly easy to install and use, it may finally allow people to take some level of control over their online privacy by knowing who is tracking them and when they are doing so. ...

notinmybackyard 10-25-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 19848050)
however :) you really wanna split hairs on who is more self involved, lets talk about the generation who is leaving 948 billion dollar deficit

I am never going to retire because I do not want to. And I certainly agree that the "me generation" were self-absorbed and stupid. Fortunately I am not the "me" generation but the "Woodstock" generation and I am also not from the United States. However if you want to discuss the generation that most fucke the United States that would be the World War 2 generation led by its nazi architect Henry Kissinger.

But none of that takes away from the facts that today's youth are beyond the stupidity of the "me" generation's Disco Duck mentality or that the Occupy mouvement was nothing more than a pathetic joke.

Nikki_Licks 10-25-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 19847079)
it's ok man.

American Gladiator is on.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Paul 10-25-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klinton (Post 19847849)
no, they don't...and your posts is illogical...

According to the BBC Horizon - Defeating the Hackers there's a pretty good chance they do

You can watch it here, interesting show

Also explains how Quantum cryptology works at minute 32.17

Sarah_Jayne 10-25-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19846974)
jesus motherfucking christ... would you please stop claiming that?

his docs show that the UN building was wiretapped which alone already is in fact breaking international laws

You know that you can't really make the blind see, right?

_Richard_ 10-25-2013 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard (Post 19848337)
that the Occupy mouvement was nothing more than a pathetic joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard (Post 19848005)
what I am seeing the majority of people today are weak and illiterate self-absorbed morons that paradoxically believe themselves to be super intelligent and super great.

yes, i see.

oppoten 10-25-2013 08:28 PM

They'll always spy on German leaders. In their eyes, history jusitifies it, and heaven forbid any European should stand in the way of their quest for world domination.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rael-documents

Meanwhile, they're trying to push through for increased surveillance of European citizens, or at least the next phase of it.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/for...-of-intolerant

Big G, and big F, are fully complicit in this, let's not kid ourselves. They seek to control the web because it's currently the one aspect of media where they can't control the message.

bronco67 10-25-2013 08:38 PM

After the whole World War 2 thing, Germany can't say shit about shit.

Rochard 10-25-2013 09:09 PM

What exactly do people think the NSA does? It spies on other governments.

madeofmoney 10-25-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderBalls (Post 19846383)
I call it as I see it. You mad? Gonna start crying?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Barry-xlovecam 10-26-2013 05:34 AM

Here is another link for you ..

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...e6c_story.html
The Justice Department on Friday informed a terrorism suspect in Colorado that it intends to use evidence against him gathered through the government’s warrantless surveillance program, a move that will likely lead to a constitutional challenge to the law. ...

... Supporters of the 2008 law say the federal surveillance court that oversees the law’s application has approved rules to protect Americans’ privacy. “Collection is done under the statute pursuant to procedures that the court has held are reasonable under the Fourth Amendment — and therefore are constitutional,” said one former senior national security lawyer, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity.

But critics argue it is unconstitutional because it allows the government to monitor telephone calls and emails without probable cause or any of the other safeguards that the Fourth Amendment’s protections against unreasonable searches ordinarily require. “It allows dragnet surveillance of Americans’ international communications,” Jaffer said. ...
You can't wish this away ... This whole NSA surveillance matter is heading for the Supreme Court again. An unconstitutional law is an illegal law, it's the same meaning.

Even soldiers do not have to follow illegal orders. But then the Nazi SS followed orders *the Nuremberg laws), the chain of command followed orders at My Lai, the Khmer Rouge followed orders ... This NSA affair may not be as drastic -- it is not murder. However, the NSA folks are following orders too -- illegal court orders.

So you are pissed at Snowden for not following what he believes to be illegal orders? That is for the Courts to decide. They will either hang Snowden for treason or vindicate him in the end.

This is the kind of shit that has led to the radicalization of the Second Amendment gun ownership rights. Defending personal freedom from a constantly more oppressive US government. When the government doesn't follow its own laws -- citizens will take matters into their own hands when pushed far enough.

I lived this during the Vietnam War era. Nixon's Enemies List, J. Edgar Hoover's illegal wiretaps, Pentagon Papers Leaker Daniel Ellsberg Praises Snowden, Manning => http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...nowden-manning this is the same shit all over again and I know how it worked out the last time -- I was there.

Rochard 10-26-2013 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19848852)
Here is another link for you ..



You can't wish this away ... This whole NSA surveillance matter is heading for the Supreme Court again. An unconstitutional law is an illegal law, it's the same meaning.

Even soldiers do not have to follow illegal orders. But then the Nazi SS followed orders *the Nuremberg laws), the chain of command followed orders at My Lai, the Khmer Rouge followed orders ... This NSA affair may not be as drastic -- it is not murder. However, the NSA folks are following orders too -- illegal court orders.

So you are pissed at Snowden for not following what he believes to be illegal orders? That is for the Courts to decide. They will either hang Snowden for treason or vindicate him in the end.

This is the kind of shit that has led to the radicalization of the Second Amendment gun ownership rights. Defending personal freedom from a constantly more oppressive US government. When the government doesn't follow its own laws -- citizens will take matters into their own hands when pushed far enough.

I lived this during the Vietnam War era. Nixon's Enemies List, J. Edgar Hoover's illegal wiretaps, Pentagon Papers Leaker Daniel Ellsberg Praises Snowden, Manning => http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...nowden-manning this is the same shit all over again and I know how it worked out the last time -- I was there.

Stop this already.

You are pointing out that the US government is going after someone they believe is supporting terrorists, they are doing everything legally, AND the Supreme Court has decided there is no reason to step in.

Once again, you pointed out a link where no laws have been broken.

TheSquealer 10-26-2013 07:59 AM

38 countries are pretending to be pissed because their voters expect them to react as such. This information was brought to the public attention by a 3rd party, and as such, politicians have to respond with shock and indignation and feign outrage as it is now hard to spin into something it isn't. It's silly theater for the ignorant masses as all matters relating to state security and espionage made public tend to be.

All countries spy. All countries gather intelligence legally and illegally to the best of their ability. All enemies spy on each other. All allies spy on each other. Germany spies on the US just as all other EU countries do.

The only crime in espionage is getting caught. Getting caught demonstrates that one party bested the other and the "offended" party must feign shock for the public as it provides absolute proof of their own ineptitude with which they manage their own security. After all, what does it say to the public about their leaders which can't provide their own head of state with a secure phone line.

The true crime is the degree to which the stupid and naive masses feel their misguided and ill informed opinions be heard and the unbridled ignorance and naivete with which they express them. Only a fist full of people know ALL the facts and that is the people who executing the operations and analyzing data. Those who allege themselves to be victims, often know very little and have very few facts. And further, the public only knows in these matters what both parties want them to know.

.... jmho

Barry-xlovecam 10-26-2013 08:15 AM

Anyone in the United States has his constitutional rights -- that is the law. DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE.

That is why Gitmo exists -- there are no constitutional rights there ...

Rochard 10-26-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19848964)
38 countries are pretending to be pissed because their voters expect them to react as such. This information was brought to the public attention by a 3rd party, and as such, politicians have to respond with shock and indignation and feign outrage as it is now hard to spin into something it isn't. It's silly theater for the ignorant masses as all matters relating to state security and espionage made public tend to be.

All countries spy. All countries gather intelligence legally and illegally to the best of their ability. All enemies spy on each other. All allies spy on each other. Germany spies on the US just as all other EU countries do.

The only crime in espionage is getting caught. Getting caught demonstrates that one party bested the other and the "offended" party must feign shock for the public as it provides absolute proof of their own ineptitude with which they manage their own security. After all, what does it say to the public about their leaders which can't provide their own head of state with a secure phone line.

The true crime is the degree to which the stupid and naive masses feel their misguided and ill informed opinions be heard and the unbridled ignorance and naivete with which they express them. Only a fist full of people know ALL the facts and that is the people who executing the operations and analyzing data. Those who allege themselves to be victims, often know very little and have very few facts. And further, the public only knows in these matters what both parties want them to know.

.... jmho

Very, very true.

And yet people are up in arms thinking that our government is spying on ourselves. At the very same time, no one can produce a single link to an article that proves the US was spying on it's own citizens illegally. How long has Snowden been on the run? How many documents has he released?

All Barry has is links to the ACLU trying to shoot down the law. No one has ever been arrested, and the only one who has broken the law is Snowden.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure it happens. But there isn't an entire division of the NSA that intentionally violates the US constitution on a daily basis. If the US government believes someone in the US is violating the law, it get a warrant and does what it needs to do.

klinton 10-26-2013 09:54 AM

sleep well :)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/vid...ideo-animation

Jel 10-26-2013 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klinton (Post 19849070)

I'm stunned grown people would make this, and then come to the conclusion it was a good thing to publish.


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