lolz, already forgot about your big pig analogy and your lack of time?


fucking dipshit.

waaa, i don't have time to actually debate a topic, only time to be a sackless dipshit drive-by troll.

oh wait, i have plenty of time to be a sackless troll.

hahahahahahaha

too fucking funny.

gotta lol @ teh gfy. having a respectful dialogue with anothe gfy'er, a troll has to try and turn the thread into an opportunity to get attention for being a sackless wonder.

2% required by whom?

and not bombing Libya was actually a political decision - like back in the day not assisting to attack Iraq. You see what happened to both countries after you bombed them into freedom...

and once again - defend us against whom?

I am not aware that we are in danger in any way.

All countries do this. If you think otherwise, you are fooling yourself.

Germany has the Bundesnachrichtendienst, which has three hundred locations in Germany and "other countries". If they aren't spying on other countries, why are they there?

Oh lookie, I made the little right wing board whore blow a gasket.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

you're surrounded by friendly democratic nations, of course you are mostly safe. again, it's not my policy, i mentioned earlier i have no idea who your boogie man is. if it's time to move on from ww2, i would agree, as i mentioned.

but as illustrated, the euro defense network is not up to par. not saying we should prop it up, maybe we should, i don't know. but if you don't want that help, i am comfortable enough with how far past ww2 we all are :winkwink: to clear out of there even more so than we have and let europeans deal with europe. i would vote for that in fact.

Gawd, that is so close to the truth.

In the era of the 1960s and 1970s it was even worse. J. Edgar Hoover's FBI had all sorts of lists and illegal wiretaps domestically and god knows what the CIA was doing.

To think otherwise is naïve as hell ...


Snowden's revelations do not surprise me and will have little effect on national security or on national "spying" policy. The allegations just bring public attention to a very long term governmental policy of spying on people. (Long term like back to ancient times.) Tempest in a teapot really.

God knows, or the Cia, but we really need to find out

sadly, the military industrial complex has so much power, a mocha chocolate ivy league liberal POTUS is powerless to get it under control.

just wait til the pentagon starts producing killer robots!

You actually buy into the idea that he is trying to do anything to "get it under control"?????




:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh



.

Ummmm he is not powerless at all.

you know - comments like this really drive me nuts

of course every country has their own intelligence, it's not a secret

but they do not wiretap Obamas phone and in return we do expect he doesnt wiretap Angies phone

because they are allies

but but!

'keep your enemies close.. '

well...no i understand he's not doing anything. its just that one would expect a generic liberal would be someone who may try to cut the defense budget as opposed to a generic republican. But there is no difference in the parties anymore. obama = bush.

i'm concerned now about german defenses. if they can let a wiretap through to the chancellor's cell phone, maybe we should have a bigger presence over there.


hahahahahahaha

i keed!

fuck you thundernoballs.

They probably can. And it is odd as fuck that we feel any need to do it for them at this point. We should drop our spending to 2% of GDP and get out of our debt isssue in a decade.

well that would be far worse. at least if he were powerless he could pass the buck to his secdef. But what your suggesting is that he has the power to stop the NSA & chooses not to.

:Oh crap

Not only does he not choose to do anything to stop it, he has actively increased it's power, scope and activities.....





.:2 cents:

i would think you are right.

unfortunately, it's one of the few things i am unoptimistic about. a defense needs an enemy. our military industrial complex will make sure there always will be 1+

a great example of that for me is the cold war. when we had big bad russia as an enemy we had zero terrorist enemies. none.

cold war ends and we instantly have terrorist enemies and a lot of em.

this is not correct.

there was the 1982 bombing of marines in beirut.

there was libya & quadaffi, who bombed US citizens in nightclubs until reagan responded.

then there was the lockerbee bombing, which was revenge for the US blasting an iranian jetliner out of the sky a year earlier.

Keep your friends close and trust no one.

:)

sure, you can point to a few examples of foreign terrorism but that's not what i was talking about.

again, i am saying the cold war ended and the military industrial complex needed an enemy to replace russia, terrorism was that enemy.

it's extremely well documented.

They don't?

I am willing to bet that Germany tries to read all US diplomatic traffic every chance they get; It's in their best interests to do so. Every government is most interested in knowing the position of other governments on a large variety of issues and political matters.

The difference is all countries have the desire, but not all countries have the ability.

bro, you said there were "zero terrorist enemies. none." perhaps you did not articulate your point adequately.

in any case, the complex did a horrible job identifying terror as the enemy to replace russia. osama declared war on USA in 1998. blew up the USS cole. the complex shrugged. wasnt until 911 & a plane was flown right up its ass did the pentagon care about al qaedas.

the big enemy after the cold war was gonna be china if you recall. The complex was flying planes into china & we had to apologize when one of our planes landed in china.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I'm strongly against the NSA prism program... That being said... does anyone think that was the start of nations trying to spy on each other? If you think Germany never tried to tap Obama's phone... you are naieve at best.

Spying on other nations... is what the entire CIA is supposed to do. Spying on our own citizens without due process is not what any governmental agency is supposed to do.

no biggie, i usually go on recollection but,

specifically: there was not a FOCUS or importance placed on terrorism as an enemy.

yes, i recollect china, which belies my point of replacing the enemy. china didn't catch on, terrorism did.

http://http://s8.postimg.org/wmdov3yid/image.jpg free image hostingRemember 2008, when 200,000 Germans greeting Obama in Berlin, like he was a rock star/second coming of Christ? What a distant, faded memory that has become.

absolutely :upsidedow

:1orglaugh got europe good, didn't they?

they also turned out in droves for hassellhoff! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...elhoff-002.jpg

Snowden didn't prove anything at all. If anything, he proved that the NSA is working with the courts exactly as they should. They go through the courts as required, but when the make a mistake and pull data by accident (such as pulling all 212 area code numbers) they report themselves (and don't use the data).

Snowden "claims" that "certain people can access any information at any time". He is most likely correct. At some point in time, someone somewhere needs to be able to log into a computer the data required - but only if they have a warrant. To date, Snowden has yet to prove this is being done on a regular basis or in bulk or at all.

On top of this, the only one who has broken laws here is Snowden.

this is simply not true.

Unless I am mistaken...I think the President has personally assured her this did not happen.

read the fine print - they said "not currently and not in the future".

they did not say never

sort of distinction escapes many.. especially when they like it that way

o shut up...just shut the fuck up....

where is the "warrant" to tap merkels phone? :1orglaugh

****crickets chirping*****





:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

international law doesn't count!

'... unless it's in our favour!'

I am not speaking about they. I heard on the news that a singular person...President Obama...assured her that the story is not true. Either he is telling what he thinks is the truth or not. Heads of state do lie when they think a lie is the better course of action.

yes yes the word of a US president is fucking scripture carved in stone LOL

bill clinton did NOT have sex with that woman :1orglaugh

bush DID find WMD in iraq :1orglaugh

and fuck no! the NSA does not spy according to obama :1orglaugh

fuck If i was merkel I would believe you guys SOOOOOOOOOOOO much :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The FISC acknowledged that NSA misled it for three years. And the NSA lied and routinely withheld information from Congress.

i dont trust any goverment..they all want to spy and take more control...just that...
it is the same in Germany, UK, Russia, China and USA...and it was the same from 1000s of years, you may even read that in ancient greek tragedies- good cases of unchangable human nature of power hungry people and greed for more power and more, more....so dont be fooled that Germans, French or other gov guys dont spy on their citizens....
Snowden :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup i'm pretty sure that some people are very angry at him in USA..just some people....50 years ago hippies were saying that "one man, one word,one song can change world..." today we have Senor Snowden, true hero of human liberties and basically - guy with balls...

and what else ? its irony of history that ex KGB guy Putin is giving asylum to exspy from USA....and in the same time the same ex KGB guy is jailing greenpeace activists because they wanted to tell about possible earth devastation....and that las thing is saddest actually, more important than whole NSA, Obama, Putin and money...but sadly most of the people don't see nothing more than end of their nose....

and what else ? its another irony of history that today German people and its goverment are kind of haven of common sense in politics etc. while USA, being savior of Europe 70 years ago changed to some kind of oppresive Empire in international politics....kind of , of course, as it still good country with (few) great people