No rebills when people pay for 3,6 or 12 months at a time.

We started billing almost a year ago exactly. Were growing and growing.

Maybe we'll hit that 40k a month by this time next year.

Yeah but Max Hardcore is a huuuuge brand. We've (I mean all of us, here on GFY) determined that it is 45 and older who pay, and they all cut their teeth on Max. He could just be sitting on a goldmine.

Definitely. We are getting the younger crowd as well but no doubt he has a well known name. We hit the ground running when we started last October and still have a long ways to go.

We will be adding some other sites to the mix and give surfers no reason to go elsewhere.

Here you go Mr. Deiz


http://i41.tinypic.com/mikxdx.jpg

Had to block out a few things but those the numbers from about 5 minutes ago.

Paully

What is making you refund trials? 4 refunds and they were all trials... how is that?

Numbers in general are my strong point, your recurring numbers are low, figure that out, and you will increase your bottom line.

Like I said though, cheers on the new sales, good job. I know you study those numbers, and obviously are not shy about sharing them. You know what I'm doing, and doing it for 1) to show that those rebills can be much higher and 2) more new sales in general.

I offer the $9.95 trial right now, it has rebilled at 63% since the 3rd. But what is more interesting is monthly subscriptions are higher then the trials.

Take a look at my pre-join form, notice only 2 options and price is NOT listed. Everything is recurring, always for me. I will never put a non-recurring option ever on an online join form. Proven HUGE in my other operations. What you do not have control over is your actual join form, which is the downfall, in my opinion, of the industry wide setup.

We prefer transparency. Thats why we kicking ass. I have people throwing down 200 dollars for a 1 year join. Not gonna get a monthly rebill from that. BTW you are making a huge mistake by only taking recurring IMO. If your product is good they'll be back.

We also have sms/phone billing/eudebit/ideal Whichever way they would like to pay.

In all probably 8 different ways to take payment.

As far as refunds go. If someone was hoping for euro content and aren't happy no problem. Refund. If it looks shady and the scrub didnt catch it we refund. Thats why I only have a couple chargebacks a month if that. Last month was 0 chargebacks.

My findings suggest otherwise on recurring model. You aren't offering a monthly plan... only trial then all multi month plans that don't recur. I think 1 year recurring is too far out to recur honestly... 6 month max.

But your rebills are telling me you are not optimizing. Not saying you are wrong, or whatever, I am saying my numbers tell a different story. And yes, I'm still testing adult results.

Honestly, I would do what I recommended and then put a *donate* or *tribute* fund to Max. In the description put... "I did hard time for you fuckers, for freedom of speech and expression", donate $100, $200 or $500. Then you can capitalize on your one time sales :)

The trial either rolls over to monthly recurring or they cancel. Basic trial model.

Since I added multi month 1 time only billing our overall sales went up 35% or more and continue to grow.

Were not asking for handouts. If they want to donate they can buy a membership for the pervert of their choice or just not use it. I dunno man. My model works and believe me when I say I looked at everybody's sales models and did what made sense for our end users.

From start to finish they know what they are gonna get. No bullshit. No tricks or gimmicks.

We go after pirates and continue to update and eventually gonna throw another site into it. Then another and another.

^^ my statement above, while recurring is always the model I would like to re-iterate, again, if you can't control your join forms and the way they are displayed, the recurring model will not work to it's full potential. So if you are using zombaio, you will never be able to fully control the process.

Hint: Todays charge is: USD $3.95 for 3 days period. Membership renews automatically at USD $24.95 after 3 days unless cancelled, then at USD $24.95 every 30 days until cancelled.

... is a sales killer. It should say... in big, bold and beautiful artwork:

3 DAY TRIAL TO MAX-HARDCORE.com!

CHARGE FOR TRIAL: $3.95

Enjoy 3 full day's* of Max Hardcore's yada yada videos.

Below form:

*Terms: Trials become standard monthly memberships after 3 days if not cancelled at $29.95 per month. Please see our terms and conditions here.

We like it simple. I cant stand that fine print/hope they dont see this shit here stuff.

And they don't see the join form again once they sign up. It needs to be spelled out. Clear as day. Maybe another reason we have low refunds and chargebacks.

And by the way my join form says it in 50 different languages.

Gonna end the discussion here because we have different ways of doing things Beaner.

LOL... you are selling something. For a price... it is simply artwork showing what you are selling and for what price. The terms of anything are spelled out... this is basic stuff man.

Do not try and convince me that your shit rocks the world and everything on your site is gold. If it was... you would have rebills 6 times higher then your new sales... guess what... you don't.

We are done... I think you inherently have a lack of understanding of business in general. And it shows on your site. Max has a good brand... a figure in the industry. He should have someone who cares for his bottom line.

Do not ever try and insult me for a different brand of *ethics*. Artwork, online, is HUGE to the bottom line. I am trying to tell you that *artwork* is also huge on the join form, whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody is hiding shit, it is presenting the form in a classy manner. But I do not think you will ever *get* it.

Good bye my friend :thumbsup

You think artwork on the join page is what keeps members on a site month after month?

I could see your argument for new sales from some flashy join page but how the fuck does that translate into rebills?

We sell porn over here not some gimmick and I dont remember insulting you but I will tell you this, If you think you blowing smoke up everyone's ass over some billing alternative that your affiliated with after one month of processing is impressive. Then youre a fucking idiot.

I will tell you this... and this is inherently wrong with every third party biller:

Todays charge is: USD $3.95 for 3 days period. Membership renews automatically at USD $24.95 after 3 days unless cancelled, then at USD $24.95 every 30 days until cancelled.

It instills uneasiness with potential members. Hardcore is absolutely the exception in something below 1:200 conversions, period.

It is his name, his legend, and people knowing him from past that is giving you those conversions.

When you do get signups, people read that price description and think to themselves "What the fuck is going on? Are they going to bang my card for another five sites or something? I need to cancel this shit RIGHT away!"

That is what I think. Nobody in the entire industry displays pricing structure like adult does. And every third party does it.

So yes... I think that *scary* wording makes people cancel right away. It is not just you (3rd parties) telling potential member the terms... it is telling them in an unsettling way.

It, quite simply put, scares them. Couple that with all the cross banging shit... and you have the results you do :thumbsup

Believe me, don't, I don't care. I ran an adult site in 2008 to 2010 and rebills were right around 2 months for every join... average. What do you think changed? And you posted your results straight up... you have less rebills then new joins.

Again though... we are done. You have a thick skull and you pissed me off... yes, you did insinuate you have better moral ethics then me and you can kindly go fuck yourself.

Ever heard the saying 'A dick in the hand is worth 2 in the bush'?

Let me give the first 3 rules of business buddy:

1) Get the money
2) Get the money
3) Get the money

I checked out your join page with my Portuguese Geo Proxy and your page translated to 'Beaner is an idiot'. I dunno? My join page looked the same??

Maybe my users are smarter than you though. They sign up and either cancel or don't since thats what the fucking join page says up front. Not in some *You will be re-billed at 29.95 a month billshit.

May was when I added multi month non-recurring joins. Maybe its working. What do you think Mr Math?

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/10yovup.jpg[/IMG]

Money is always in rebills. The first step is to not scare customer. Second is to try and create something of value.

You will never reach 40k per month because you are behind the wheel.

I never make text smaller... i say straight up this is recurring and cancel. Every single contact us linkvis a direct email to me.

At 12 months, you should be at almost 1000 joins per month (with rebills). Im not sure why max is in bed with you but you are losing a lot of money sucking dick with your current setup.

Did i mention that you cant close a window on the site when it pops up? Really, that is really necessary?

What window? We have no popups? Talking about the Apache password dialogue? Try clicking cancel or enter your password like the box says.

Maybe you are a math genius but you need to brush up on your reading skills. Check Google for a night school around your neighborhood.

You just saw it and you can't understand. It's OK man. Hang in there.

Your gonna shake the industry up I know it once you can read.

Viva la Revolucion Beaner!

THE NEVER ENDING POPUP
Paully, like I said (should I not call you by name for fear you may be thinking I'm calling myself Paully?) the box doesn't close!! People don't hit the cancel... they hit the fucking X... you can't fix that?

Your join process is terrible. I mean really bad. Which is why, you posting those stats, I was blown away. Imagine what they could do if properly done??

You are representing a brand that has a lot of history in adult... I renig my statement of 40K/month... should be making 100K/month!

AND HERE IT IS... IT WILL NOT CLOSE, IT CONTINUES TO POPUP... AT LEAST 3 OR 4 TIMES

http://www.judoporn.com/images/hardcorepicture.jpg

3 times. Your blown away because your wrong. Now are you Sara Swirls webmaster?

Anyone who goes to your site will say the same thing... WTF. 3 times... it may be 6 times, I don't know really... I checked your site months ago and it still does the same thing... stupid is what it is. It tells me you are a groundhog on your stats, providing nothing, to little, on the advancement of that site.

I'm sorry mostly for the guy relying on you to make money...

Yes, your popup is horrible, irritating, confusing, and just looks like an error. And there is not a chance in hell that is why your conversion are what they are... you are trying to grow a program in which an adult figure is behind.

Just let Max read these comments, make his decision for himself. It is obvious to me you don't have the first understanding of online business.

I am being a dick because for several reasons... and #1 it is because you insinuated that you have more morals above and beyond mine. That was the straw that broke the camels back... just so you know. Have MAX hit me up if he wants to both 1) stay under the radar and 2) make a shitload more money

FIDDY Beaner Revolutions.

Here's what I know about Join pages: Paully and Beaner are both correct, in their own way.

Beaner does pre-Join page, then initial price up top, rebill price down below. Paully does non-recurring but his signup process is a little more cluttered.

Join forms: Keep them as simple as possible. It's perfectly fine to say up top $24.95* then down below *rebills at $24.95 as long as the font isn't tiny.

I don't like pre-Join forms. I consider them 'speed bumps' to Joining. But many do so it obviously works, for some. How a Join page is displayed is very important but also how many join choices there are, too. For my sites I found more Join options tended to either scatter sales across billers (not raising sales, which was the point) and rebills crashed dead. I can probably improve in this area if I could find a way of displaying the other Join options without overwhelming the potential Member.

Rebills vs. No Rebills is interesting. I can add only this: rebills only = chargebacks rising. "Oh shit I forgot to cancel that Membership!" and it's straight to Visa to complain/chargeback.

@ Beaner

Don't feel sorry for Max. He's making monies. You should try it out. Maybe you wouldn't be such a whiny billing trolling bitch. Maybe it's not about gimmicks it's about substance. And you my friend have none.

Blame everybody else when your shit doesn't sell.

Let's see what happens in a month or 2 when your feeling the love from your own pompous behavior.

Oh and he's reading. He thinks your a bigger jackass than I do.

My first option is monthly recurring. http://www.max-hardcore.com/join.php

Paully, do you go out and get retarded and then come on here?

Your first option is a trial... you even say *on the button* $3.95 trial - $24.95 30 days.

It's like the stupid just took complete control over you... I mean that... really fucking dumb shit you are doing.

You dont get the concept of 3.95 trial then 24.95 a month. I convert 1:158 with multi month billing smartguy. Was 1:90 when it went straight to the join page but then look at my sales after May when I added multi month non recurring options.

What your saying is you are an idiot that obviously can't keep up with my surfers. Thats the math.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. You have been given a gold mine and you know nothing as far as converting. Your stats are simply the name... your awful site, your lack of understanding of sales, will be the barrier to full potential.

But you are what you make it... and don't get me wrong, I am still blown away by those monthly new sales. I think your site sucks, you join process terrible, and you are using third parties which suck as well.

But carry on... I could make Max site billing 100K/month... and next year, you will be in the same spot. So congrats :thumbsup

You started out with amazement then left in disgust. Just like every other bitch I knew.

Its not about the bling it's about the content and transparency.

Trust me or don't. Your blown away by new sales when we use Zombaios join page?

They dont care about the join page as long as it looks safe and professional and Zombaio and most other billers do that.

Tell me what does your join page say in German? Spanish? French? Canadian? just kidding. My point is you have a long way to go. So until then STFU;)

If you were smart this is what you would have asked for. Cancel stats. They have decent weight in my day to day.

http://i43.tinypic.com/e1axpc.jpg

Show me your stats. Lets check 'em out.

your stats are unbelievable for today's market
maybe because of your brand
anyway... wishing you the best with those. keep going

Thank you sir. Much appreciated.

Paully

Beaner why don't you show us some numbers from your site? This is it right: http://www.judoporn.com/

I am sorry but this made me laugh :1orglaugh

I can see both sides of the non recurring option and rebill option as the porn nerd pointed out.
I have seen benefits of both options and drawbacks for both.

Nice and respectable numbers Paully, and definitely nice overall improvement with our numbers Beaner!

You guys both should be commended for your successes.

You both prove that the bottom line is doing whatever works well for each individual setup, and no one outside of yourself can ever tell you what works best for you.

Only you know what works best for you, and that is how you must proceed if it falls on death ears so mote it be.

yes show us please, business thread of the month :thumbsup

quoted fore tooth :thumbsup

I chuckled as well... not that long though.

I've spoken with Paully on the phone before about his program.

I would like to say 2 things:

1) It was exactly your comments about hiding a recurring charge that pissed me off and
2) I apologize for whatever posts after that were likely out of hand. I do not hide the recurring charge, I do not participate in x-sales, and I publicly speak out about those that do.

It is simply what I have discovered over the years (since 2008) that every step of the way must be perfect or your sales will be affected.

And just try, try to listen to me. This price description up top is hurting you BIG time:

Todays charge is: USD $3.95 for 3 days period. Membership renews automatically at USD $24.95 after 3 days unless cancelled, then at USD $24.95 every 30 days until cancelled.

It could be done so, so much better. You don't hide any terms, you say everything you need to, you just don't do it like worded above. It is the plan (MONTHLY, TRIAL, 3 MONTH, etc.) and then it is the price they are paying on the very day. The terms can be right below it, can be beside it, can be anywhere as long as a reasonable person could understand them.

You cannot control that though, because, you are partnered with a company who decides that for you.

That is all I'm saying.

ok, so no stats ?

All this talk and no actual walk.

I think he walks in circles

After I apologized to you... really?

Fucking A... I will post the increase in sales and I hope you have an orgasm. Jesus your an asshole.