Harvard study finds that Obama is wrong - GoFuckYourself.com

onwebcam · 08-29-2013, 10:55 AM

Considering Obama obviously didn't listen in his Constitutional law classes I guess we can assume he will ignore this study as well.

Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don?t reduce the murder rate

In fact, it appears, bans may actually see them increase.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/2...e-murder-rate/

_Richard_ · 08-29-2013, 11:05 AM

i haven't verified anything, but this is fun reading:

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle558-20100221-07.html

(A Brief History of British Gun Control )

L-Pink · 08-29-2013, 11:32 AM

Rochard · 08-29-2013, 11:46 AM

Did anyone read the report?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

Very strange. It's a very well written report that is forty pages long, but only discusses gun violence and murder rates in Europe yet does not include England which seems to have a lower murder rate than all other countries in Europe. At the same time this report fails to compare stats from South America, where gun crime is unusually high.

Then at one point the article states:

"Americans are more likely to be shot to death than people in the world’s other 35 wealthier nations."

Interesting.

On one hand it's the most detailed report I've ever seen (I haven't read it fully obviously). On the other hand, it seems to be cherry pick stats

It's obvious that crime is dropping in the US, and has been for some time. I am not sure if this is because of gun control. I think it's more because of better police work - it's just so much harder to get away with shit now because of DNA and other such technology.

scottybuzz · 08-29-2013, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

time and time again this point is stupid.

If you have a country where guns are banned and a criminal is stupid enough to carry one, they will have the whole city's police on them in literally hours and be in a cell by the end of the day with a 5 year jail sentence attached.

Tom_PM · 08-29-2013, 12:04 PM

I don't have an interest in a fight, but someone should point out that the mass shootings that I'm sure Obama was referring to were pretty much all done by law abiding citizens. Until they decided / went nuts and had their shooting spree tantrums. So naturally, just like all laws and rules about anything under the sun, they only apply to people who aren't set on breaking them anyway.

MaDalton · 08-29-2013, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Considering Obama obviously didn't listen in his Constitutional law classes I guess we can assume he will ignore this study as well.

Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don?t reduce the murder rate

In fact, it appears, bans may actually see them increase.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/2...e-murder-rate/

i dont want to argue pro or against guns here - i would just like to say that i am really surprised that this study is supposed to be done by the Harvard university. Probably by their janitor.

They mention Germany as a country with significant gun ownership - yet in Germany your guns and ammunition have to be locked separately when at home, you cannot carry in public unless you get a license that is really hard to get (either you are in the security business or prove that your life is at risk) and to be able to shoot, you have to be in a club or be a hunter (again: with a license that takes months of studying and theoretical and practical tests)

seriously: if any "scientist" was involved in that study, he needs to be bitchslapped

And Luxembourg? Seriously? Luxembourg has 500k people, if 2 people are killed per year the rate is already higher than in all other European countries

that "study" is a joke...

but one of guys who wrote it has the last name "Mauser" - his family probably produces the guns, i wouldnt be surprised

bronco67 · 08-29-2013, 12:08 PM

Illegal guns start as legal guns. It's not like there's some factory making black market weapons. England has less murders because its not a gun culture. There's less guns circulating through the system, whether its legal or illegal -- because they're not gun crazy motherfuckers over there.

We had to take our freedom from them, so it makes sense we're still holding on to the right to bear arms.

tony286 · 08-29-2013, 12:29 PM

And we know its a harvard study how?

baddog · 08-29-2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

time and time again this point is stupid.

If you have a country where guns are banned and a criminal is stupid enough to carry one, they will have the whole city's police on them in literally hours and be in a cell by the end of the day with a 5 year jail sentence attached.

Yeah, because the threat of jail has been so effective with assault, robbery, fraud . . .

Rochard · 08-29-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

And we know its a harvard study how?

It's up on the Harvard website, although... For all we know it's a homework assignment put together by a first year student. Well, a very well put together homework assignment.

Aidoru · 08-29-2013, 06:08 PM

Harvard

Grapesoda · 08-29-2013, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

Illegal guns start as legal guns. It's not like there's some factory making black market weapons. England has less murders because its not a gun culture. There's less guns circulating through the system, whether its legal or illegal -- because they're not gun crazy motherfuckers over there.

We had to take our freedom from them, so it makes sense we're still holding on to the right to bear arms.

think I would rather be shot than have my head chopped off with a dull knife at the bus stop, on video.... just sayin' ya know?

Grapesoda · 08-29-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i dont want to argue pro or against guns here - i would just like to say that i am really surprised that this study is supposed to be done by the Harvard university. Probably by their janitor.

They mention Germany as a country with significant gun ownership - yet in Germany your guns and ammunition have to be locked separately when at home, you cannot carry in public unless you get a license that is really hard to get (either you are in the security business or prove that your life is at risk) and to be able to shoot, you have to be in a club or be a hunter (again: with a license that takes months of studying and theoretical and practical tests)

seriously: if any "scientist" was involved in that study, he needs to be bitchslapped

And Luxembourg? Seriously? Luxembourg has 500k people, if 2 people are killed per year the rate is already higher than in all other European countries

that "study" is a joke...

but one of guys who wrote it has the last name "Mauser" - his family probably produces the guns, i wouldnt be surprised

almost everyone I known has a gun or guns... no one I know has ever shot anyone

MaDalton · 08-30-2013, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

almost everyone I known has a gun or guns... no one I know has ever shot anyone

i gave up on that discussion - just point out that this "study" is bullcrap

OldJeff · 08-30-2013, 03:42 AM

Really did not need a study to tell me Obama is wrong, about a LOT of things

escorpio · 08-30-2013, 05:39 AM

Grapesoda · 08-30-2013, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

he wont accept Obama care either but it's good enough for you

Grapesoda · 08-30-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i gave up on that discussion - just point out that this "study" is bullcrap

many studies are bullcrap , nothing new there

Rochard · 08-30-2013, 08:38 AM

In this case, the study is clearly bullshit. It's very well put together, and compares gun deaths between the US and Europe. However, it's leaving out the UK which has pretty much banned firearms yet has a low gun violence rate. At the same time, the study fails to compare South America (lots of guns, lots of gun violence) and also Asia.

escorpio · 08-30-2013, 09:26 AM

bronco67 · 08-30-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

think I would rather be shot than have my head chopped off with a dull knife at the bus stop, on video.... just sayin' ya know?

Not a good argument, because it's not like that's happening hundreds of time per day.

Yanks_Todd · 08-30-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's up on the Harvard website, although... For all we know it's a homework assignment put together by a first year student. Well, a very well put together homework assignment.

It is in a student folder. I just finished up at UW a couple of years ago. I had uw.edu subfolders at my disposal.

deltav · 08-30-2013, 03:39 PM

Jesus christ. It's a project written by an undergrad for their student newspaper, and then republished by Hotair.com (which is a right-wing "news" site) as some definitive study by Harvard itself. It's a fucking homework project by a Young Republican student, 20 seconds of 'research' will tell you that.

onwebcam is pretty much incapable of evaluating the source of any of these stupid stories he presents as fact. Why the fuck there are so many nutjobs lacking critical thinking skills on here, I just don't get.

Rochard · 08-30-2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

It is in a student folder. I just finished up at UW a couple of years ago. I had uw.edu subfolders at my disposal.

If there is one thing GFY has taught me, it's that most people have some kind of an agenda and stats do in fact lie. Even if you are completely unbiased, your stats will portray one set of facts or another - and there will be other stats that say the direct opposite.

onwebcam · 08-30-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

Jesus christ. It's a project written by an undergrad for their student newspaper, and then republished by Hotair.com (which is a right-wing "news" site) as some definitive study by Harvard itself. It's a fucking homework project by a Young Republican student, 20 seconds of 'research' will tell you that.

onwebcam is pretty much incapable of evaluating the source of any of these stupid stories he presents as fact. Why the fuck there are so many nutjobs lacking critical thinking skills on here, I just don't get.

Jesus christ you obviously didn't do your research good enough.

In a research paper titled ?Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?,? first published in Harvard?s Journal of Public Law and Policy, Don B. Kates, a criminologist and constitutional lawyer, and Gary Mauser, Ph.D., a Canadian criminologist and professor at Simon Fraser University

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/

deltav · 08-30-2013, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Jesus christ you obviously didn't do your research good enough.

Well fuck me, you're right. Don Kates is actually a pretty interesting voice on gun control even if I do sort of disagree with him. Mea culpa.

Still, most of your posts are idiotic

slapass · 08-30-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Yeah, because the threat of jail has been so effective with assault, robbery, fraud . . .

All of which have been declining for years. So yeah maybe the longer sentences have had an effect.

slapass · 08-30-2013, 04:55 PM

I did not read it. Switzerland has the highest ownership rate in Europe and the highest murder rate in Europe. So where did they fit in the study?

kane · 08-30-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

I did not read it. Switzerland has the highest ownership rate in Europe and the highest murder rate in Europe. So where did they fit in the study?

I think you mean they have the lowest murder rate in Europe.

slapass · 08-30-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I think you mean they have the lowest murder rate in Europe.

That sucks as the last time I checked it was one if not the highest. Skewed anyways as they have guns but no ammo.

epitome · 08-30-2013, 09:07 PM

Um, that is not a study. It is a sourced paper.

Or, as the authors themselves state, "a review of International and some domestic evidence."

(emphasis added by me)

madeofmoney · 08-30-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I think you mean they have the lowest murder rate in Europe.

what about the psycho guy? oh nevermind.. that was Norway.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 08-30-2013, 09:34 PM

If you read down below the article in the comment section it makes it clear that the article was published by the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy in 2007.

Quote:

I?m sure the study is just fine, but before you start throwing the Harvard name around, you should expect to be hit back with the fact that the HJLPP is a conservative/libertarian legal journal.

Quote:

Whatever the merits of the study, it is simply inaccurate to call it a ?Harvard gun study.?

It was published in a Harvard student-run journal, true, but the authors are from the Pacific Research Institute (a ?free-market think tank?) and Simon Fraser University.

Mauser is a longtime foe of gun control and his PhD is in marketing, not criminology. Moreover, the journal does not seem to be peer-reviewed ? it?s a law journal run by law students, not a criminology journal edited by criminologists ? and according to its website it focuses exclusively on ?conservative and libertarian legal scholarship.?

So there is definitely evidence that this article is somewhat driven by ideology.

Considering who the OP is I am not surprised who is behind the report. Disseminating wacky stories that seem sound on the surface is what Libertarians do.

ADG

Rochard · 08-30-2013, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

I did not read it. Switzerland has the highest ownership rate in Europe and the highest murder rate in Europe. So where did they fit in the study?

They got a gun death rate 12 times of England, which bans firearms.

adendreams · 08-31-2013, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's obvious that crime is dropping in the US, and has been for some time. I am not sure if this is because of gun control. I think it's more because of better police work - it's just so much harder to get away with shit now because of DNA and other such technology.

Roe v Wade is the reason for the crime drop holmes

Grapesoda · 08-31-2013, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

Not a good argument, because it's not like that's happening hundreds of time per day.

once was enough for the soldier, wasn't it?

Grapesoda · 08-31-2013, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Grapesoda · 08-31-2013, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

I did not read it. Switzerland has the highest ownership rate in Europe and the highest murder rate in Europe. So where did they fit in the study?

whoops!!! not even slightly true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

Grapesoda · 08-31-2013, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

They got a gun death rate 12 times of England, which bans firearms.

homicides rate for England 1.2, Switzerland .07. I really doubt some dude killed with a knife or hammer is overjoyed because he wasn't killed with a gun...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

bronco67 · 08-31-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

If you read down below the article in the comment section it makes it clear that the article was published by the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy in 2007.

Considering who the OP is I am not surprised who is behind the report. Disseminating wacky stories that seem sound on the surface is what Libertarians do.

ADG

Libertarians are just Republicans that smoke pot.

bronco67 · 08-31-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

once was enough for the soldier, wasn't it?

I dare you to make less sense.

Rochard · 08-31-2013, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

homicides rate for England 1.2, Switzerland .07. I really doubt some dude killed with a knife or hammer is overjoyed because he wasn't killed with a gun...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

That is so cute how you did that.... You twisted stats around. We aren't discussing homicide rates, we are discussing firearm deaths. How many people are stabbed to death or poisoned aren't relevant in a conversation about firearm deaths.

Firearm death rates for the Swiss are 3.84, while the UK is only 0.25.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

pornmasta · 08-31-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

Libertarians are just Republicans that smoke pot.

and watch porn...

CDSmith · 08-31-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

If you have a country where guns are banned and a criminal is stupid enough to carry one, they will have the whole city's police on them in literally hours and be in a cell by the end of the day with a 5 year jail sentence attached.

Only if the cops in your little scenario are psychic. For the rest of the non-psychic cops out there, they generally have to wait for the criminal to actually use the gun or be seen with it, or have the criminal make a mistake in some way. You know, like shooting someone during a break-in who wasn't supposed to be there.

Cops don't have built-in gun radar.

Thus that point you say is 'stupid', really isn't.

onwebcam · 08-31-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

That is so cute how you did that.... You twisted stats around. We aren't discussing homicide rates, we are discussing firearm deaths. How many people are stabbed to death or poisoned aren't relevant in a conversation about firearm deaths.

Firearm death rates for the Swiss are 3.84, while the UK is only 0.25.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

Umm the point in the study was to determine if gun bans decreased overall homicides. That would include stabbings, poisonings or plain ole beat downs. That is entirely the point that it doesn't matter if it's a gun or a knife if someone wants to kill someone they are going to do it however with whatever tools available. Sure a gun makes it easier to kill someone but it also makes it easy to protect yourself from that someone. If that someone knows that no guns will be around then they feel more secure in their killing spree which is why pretty much all of them have went into gun free zones. In fact the Aurora shooter drove past several theaters and out of his way to go to one that had gun free postings.

Vendzilla · 08-31-2013, 03:00 PM

Face it, the government wants to take away your guns for the same reason they want to be able to disable your cell phone camera around the police.

http://news.msn.com/rumors/rumor-cop...mera-and-wi-fi

They have the tech, how long before they use it?

08-29-2013, 10:55 AM	#1
onwebcam Fake Nick 1.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rent free, your head Posts: 27,653	Harvard study finds that Obama is wrong Considering Obama obviously didn't listen in his Constitutional law classes I guess we can assume he will ignore this study as well. Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don?t reduce the murder rate In fact, it appears, bans may actually see them increase. http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/2...e-murder-rate/ __________________ PLEASE WAIT WHILE BIDEN ADMIN UNINSTALLS ITSELF..... ██████████████████▒ 99.5% complete.

08-29-2013, 11:46 AM	#4
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,340	Did anyone read the report? http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf Very strange. It's a very well written report that is forty pages long, but only discusses gun violence and murder rates in Europe yet does not include England which seems to have a lower murder rate than all other countries in Europe. At the same time this report fails to compare stats from South America, where gun crime is unusually high. Then at one point the article states: "Americans are more likely to be shot to death than people in the world’s other 35 wealthier nations." Interesting. On one hand it's the most detailed report I've ever seen (I haven't read it fully obviously). On the other hand, it seems to be cherry pick stats It's obvious that crime is dropping in the US, and has been for some time. I am not sure if this is because of gun control. I think it's more because of better police work - it's just so much harder to get away with shit now because of DNA and other such technology. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

08-29-2013, 12:04 PM	#6
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	I don't have an interest in a fight, but someone should point out that the mass shootings that I'm sure Obama was referring to were pretty much all done by law abiding citizens. Until they decided / went nuts and had their shooting spree tantrums. So naturally, just like all laws and rules about anything under the sun, they only apply to people who aren't set on breaking them anyway. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

08-29-2013, 12:08 PM	#8
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	Illegal guns start as legal guns. It's not like there's some factory making black market weapons. England has less murders because its not a gun culture. There's less guns circulating through the system, whether its legal or illegal -- because they're not gun crazy motherfuckers over there. We had to take our freedom from them, so it makes sense we're still holding on to the right to bear arms. __________________ Last edited by bronco67; 08-29-2013 at 12:09 PM..

08-29-2013, 06:08 PM	#12
Aidoru Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 655	Harvard __________________ Gravurecash - 50% Lifetime RevShare on all signups and rebills, 5% Webmaster Referral

08-29-2013, 11:05 AM	#2
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,985	i haven't verified anything, but this is fun reading: http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle558-20100221-07.html (A Brief History of British Gun Control )

08-29-2013, 11:32 AM	#3
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151

08-29-2013, 12:29 PM	#9
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	And we know its a harvard study how?

08-30-2013, 03:42 AM	#16
OldJeff Big Fucking hahahaha Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,047	Really did not need a study to tell me Obama is wrong, about a LOT of things __________________ "As pornographers we must act responsibly! ;))"- Nickatilynx I might be Old and Tired, but at least I don't support a whiney cunt

08-30-2013, 05:39 AM	#17
escorpio I love to racism, bro! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA! USA! USA! Posts: 22,911

08-30-2013, 08:38 AM	#20
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,340	In this case, the study is clearly bullshit. It's very well put together, and compares gun deaths between the US and Europe. However, it's leaving out the UK which has pretty much banned firearms yet has a low gun violence rate. At the same time, the study fails to compare South America (lots of guns, lots of gun violence) and also Asia. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

08-30-2013, 09:26 AM	#21
escorpio I love to racism, bro! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA! USA! USA! Posts: 22,911

08-30-2013, 03:39 PM	#24
deltav Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,243	Jesus christ. It's a project written by an undergrad for their student newspaper, and then republished by Hotair.com (which is a right-wing "news" site) as some definitive study by Harvard itself. It's a fucking homework project by a Young Republican student, 20 seconds of 'research' will tell you that. onwebcam is pretty much incapable of evaluating the source of any of these stupid stories he presents as fact. Why the fuck there are so many nutjobs lacking critical thinking skills on here, I just don't get. __________________ ********* DeltaofVenus.com - Vintage Erotica from the 1800s through 1979

08-30-2013, 04:55 PM	#29
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,622	I did not read it. Switzerland has the highest ownership rate in Europe and the highest murder rate in Europe. So where did they fit in the study?

08-30-2013, 09:07 PM	#32
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Um, that is not a study. It is a sourced paper. Or, as the authors themselves state, "a review of International and *some* domestic evidence." (emphasis added by me)

08-31-2013, 03:00 PM	#47
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	Face it, the government wants to take away your guns for the same reason they want to be able to disable your cell phone camera around the police. http://news.msn.com/rumors/rumor-cop...mera-and-wi-fi They have the tech, how long before they use it? __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that