Anyone else have active customers at hotmovies/moviedollars but had their account disabled anyway?

[Jel]

Or just me?

I send no new joins (just don't have traffic these days) *but* existing joins still buy (they are VOD for those that aren't aware). Got an email informing me my account has been disabled as I'm an inactive affiliate, and I'm not happy about it at all.

James is being very unhelpful and is adamant that as I've not sent a new customer to the database for over 2 years, this qualifies me as inactive, and the $236 I've earned on my side so far this year (30% I believe, so $480-ish to them) doesn't count as being active, as no *new* customers have been sent.

Anyone going through this total bullshit with them?

As an aside, any ideas on the labour costs of having affs in your database that are inactive? I've worked it out at about $0, and 0 time/effort - any advance on that?

Final reply was:

"You are no longer an affiliate in good standing.

You need to be promoting us to be an affiliate."

So be warned if you promote these guys.

[Jel]

email timeline:

Hello MD005539,

We're in the process closing out inactive affiliate accounts.

It has been over 6 months since you've sent customers to Moviedollars and your account is no longer active.

If you have any questions please let us know,

James & Joshua
www.moviedollars.com

=============================================

Hi Guys,

You'll see that I still get sales each month though from previous customers, so I'm hoping this means you'll be keeping my account active. Can you please confirm this?

Many thanks,

Jel

=============================================

You haven’t sent sales in over 2 years.

Can you send new sales?

=============================================

screenshot of sales since 2008 - not sure where you're getting no sales in 2 years from?



=============================================

They are all customers from long, long ago.

You haven’t sent me a new person in 2 years.

Take a look at the customer report in the stats section.

Where are you linking from?

=============================================

mate - those customers *I* sent are still buying - you can't see that it's wrong to can my account when I have active customers? Don't tell me I need to go to the boards on this one...

=============================================

So you don’t have any active links to us?

=============================================

no - my whitelabel expired - I fail to see what that has to do with the fact I have active customers, and what 'strain' me having no links, yet still sending sales via existing customers has on you?

=============================================

You are no longer an affiliate in good standing.

You need to be promoting us to be an affiliate.

*********************************************

cocksuckers...

[nvaonline]

thats insane

[bloggerz]

Wow.....

[Barefootsies]

Interesting.

I suppose that is 'one way' to stop having to pay existing affiliates and/or forcing you as an affiliate to work harder to drive their own business. If you can't repeatedly send new buyers, regardless of the recurring, you stop getting paid. Nothing really amazes me much any more, and it's going to get much worse before it gets better.

[Jel]

I can't recall ever reading or hearing about a shittier move by a sponsor tbh.

[wizzart]

They say 25% lifetime ,and as I know lifetime isn't 2 years.

Very bad action from moviedollars, we need to have union and to punish each sponsor that act like this

[Jel]

Originally Posted by wizzart

They say 25% lifetime ,and as I know lifetime isn't 2 years.

Very bad action from moviedollars, we need to have union and to punish each sponsor that act like this

Well, their criteria here is 6 months. So 6 months is the new 'lifetime'

[PornDiscounts-V]

That sucks. But I do send new sales so I am not in that boat.

[adultforum]

Links removed, sponsor banned

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Interesting.

I suppose that is 'one way' to stop having to pay existing affiliates and/or forcing you as an affiliate to work harder to drive their own business. If you can't repeatedly send new buyers, regardless of the recurring, you stop getting paid. Nothing really amazes me much any more, and it's going to get much worse before it gets better.

I think you're right, sadly. As the affiliate model further gets destroyed I think you are going to see more sponsors doing stuff like this "because they can" and "because they are desperate". Many of the smaller ones are going to close their affiliate programs (or everything) and silently keep all the affiliate rebills for themselves using various justifications for it. They are desperate for that money.

I'm with Jel here of course. Lifetime means the lifetime of the program and the affiliate needs to be paid for the joins they previously sent regardless of how much traffic they currently send. WE ARE NOT YOUR EMPLOYEES! You do not have a right to tell us how many links we have to put up to you or how much traffic to send to continue to get paid. Your rep is NOT our boss.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by vvvvv

That sucks. But I do send new sales so I am not in that boat.

nor was I, until I was

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I think you're right, sadly. As the affiliate model further gets destroyed I think you are going to see more sponsors doing stuff like this "because they can" and "because they are desperate". Many of the smaller ones are going to close their affiliate programs (or everything) and silently keep all the affiliate rebills for themselves using various justifications for it. They are desperate for that money.

That is a recurring problem in the adult space, that is why the vast majority of my affiliate relationships are now mainstream where I do not have all of these concerns. Mainstream is just like anything else however, you need to get in with the right networks. That said, there are some who take very good care of affiliates who can deliver and push quality traffic, including cash back bonuses every month.

In adult, a few people/companies control the vast majority of the wealth left in this industry. It's not to say there is not money to be made as a producer or pay site owner. But if you're a lowly affiliate, you will find that swim in increasingly more difficult for you. It's time to diversify. Assuming you know how to build sites, and drive traffic, you should be able to easily transition into other online spaces. You just have to WORK and retool your operation.

[Si]

Waiting for the email......

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

That is a recurring problem in the adult space, that is why the vast majority of my affiliate relationships are now mainstream where I do not have all of these concerns. Mainstream is just like anything else however, you need to get in with the right networks. That said, there are some who take very good care of affiliates who can deliver and push quality traffic, including cash back bonuses every month.

In adult, a few people/companies control the vast majority of the wealth left in this industry. It's not to say there is not money to be made as a producer or pay site owner. But if you're a lowly affiliate, you will find that swim in increasingly more difficult for you. It's time to diversify. Assuming you know how to build sites, and drive traffic, you should be able to easily transition into other online spaces. You just have to WORK and retool your operation.

[Jel]

Ended up speaking to Joshua (who has always been totally top notch) who turned my account back on and sorted it out.

Joshua - as I said in the email - you the man

[Jel]

Anyone else who gets this notification, hit up [email protected] if you have active customers, and he'll sort it (or any other issues)

[ravo]

I got the same email. I'm not overly concerned as I was only making a few bucks per month. But, the move does seem un-professional and slightly desperate.

[Jel]

From Joshua:

My understanding is that there is script running to notify affiliates that have not sent any new sign-ups in one year or longer

Which is understandable - but the response from James was way, way off - rectified by Joshua though, so just hit him (Josh) up to get your account enabled again. You earned those limetime commissions - claim them

[hacktic]

they disabled my account too for the same reason after i notified them about a bounced cheque ($500+).

[maximiweb]

Wow.....

[bean-aid]

I'm not sure why this is shocking at all. Check out the terms on some of the more popular cam sites. 30% down to 5% if no new sales in a certain time frame.

[Manfap]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

That is a recurring problem in the adult space, that is why the vast majority of my affiliate relationships are now mainstream where I do not have all of these concerns. Mainstream is just like anything else however, you need to get in with the right networks. That said, there are some who take very good care of affiliates who can deliver and push quality traffic, including cash back bonuses every month.

In adult, a few people/companies control the vast majority of the wealth left in this industry. It's not to say there is not money to be made as a producer or pay site owner. But if you're a lowly affiliate, you will find that swim in increasingly more difficult for you. It's time to diversify. Assuming you know how to build sites, and drive traffic, you should be able to easily transition into other online spaces. You just have to WORK and retool your operation.

Happens with Casino sponsors as well. Even doing $1k a month with them on recurring, they moan because there´s no new traffic.

[Gator]

Originally Posted by beaner

I'm not sure why this is shocking at all. Check out the terms on some of the more popular cam sites. 30% down to 5% if no new sales in a certain time frame.

Which ones do that? Please save me time from having to fish.

[hostmember]

Originally Posted by Gator

Which ones do that? Please save me time from having to fish.

VideoSecrets/Flirt4Free section 7.2 in terms -

7.2
Dormant Affiliate Rate Adjustment. You acknowledge and agree that if the Company's records indicate that no new referrals have been credited to Your account for a period of one hundred and eighty (180) days, then regardless of the rate of commission or other compensation previously paid to You for referrals, Company shall have the option, but not the obligation, to unilaterally change the rate of commission for payment for referrals to a "Dormant Affiliate Rate". Currently the Dormant Affiliate Rate is five percent (5%). The Dormant Affiliate Rate Adjustment does not apply to the pay per-lead plan or One-Time Payment Option. Company may at its sole discretion change the Dormant Affiliate Rate at any time and/or change the Dormant Affiliate Rate applicable to one or more specific Affiliate Program participants at any time. You further acknowledge and agree that, without limiting Company's other termination options, Company also expressly reserves the right to terminate Your participation in any and all of Company's Programs if You fail to provide any referrals for a period of one hundred and eighty (180) days. If Your account commission rate has been changed to a Dormant Affiliate Rate and You wish to reestablish a previous commission rate or otherwise change Your commission rate, You may request such change by contacting the Company at [email protected]. You acknowledge and agree that the Company shall not at any time have any obligation to grant Your request and that the granting of such requests are at the sole discretion of the Company.
--

Camsense/Camcontacts section 2 in terms

(2.1). An active affiliate ("Active Affiliate") of CamSense, the administrator of the affiliate programs for the CCNetwork of sites, for this purpose is:

One whose qualified spenders do not, in the aggregate, exceed chargebacks of 1 ½ % over a one (1) month period.
One who has complied with the CamSense Customer Identification requirements set forth herein within thirty (30) days after becoming an affiliate or within sixty (60) days from a request by CC Network for such compliance for existing affiliates.
One who delivers at minimum five (5) qualified spenders per month to a CC Network site,

(2.2). CamSense has the option to discontinue the payouts for your referred visitors who have become qualified spenders on a CC Network site upon your failure to meet the criteria for an Active Affiliate over a two (2) month period.

[oppoten]

Yep, Camsense did this a while ago. Anyone still promoting them?

[HandballJim]

The dumbest thing a program can do, I received the same email and have some unsent funds in my account. I am currently not active due to not having time and spending time with my 18th month old.

Most likely the last program I will promote when I start working again, all those shows they sponsor and give out all those free download flyers, this is why they don't make us money.

[Forkbeard]

This has been happening on and off since 2008. I've had a couple of programs try to pull this on me, but haven't had to go public since (in both cases) they reversed themselves when I squawked privately. There were quite a few rebills at stake and I assume that stealing rebills was the motive for the policy.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

This has been happening on and off since 2008. I've had a couple of programs try to pull this on me, but haven't had to go public since (in both cases) they reversed themselves when I squawked privately. There were quite a few rebills at stake and I assume that stealing rebills was the motive for the policy.

Yep. Started happening a lot right around the rise of the tubes. Many companies started looking at affiliates as liabilities rather than assets and began looking for ways to take the money. Things like this usually aren't mistakes but are calculated as the VS TOS shows. It's a "good" way to make more money from smaller webmasters.

I think Bangbros (or was it ND?) was the first one I saw doing it around 2007. It's almost always a sign of further bad things to come because it shows a certain mentality exists in the upper management at the sponsor.

[Gator]

Originally Posted by hostmember

VideoSecrets/Flirt4Free section 7.2 in terms -

7.2
Dormant Affiliate Rate Adjustment. You acknowledge and agree that if the Company's records indicate that no new referrals have been credited to Your account for a period of one hundred and eighty (180) days, then regardless of the rate of commission or other compensation previously paid to You for referrals, Company shall have the option, but not the obligation, to unilaterally change the rate of commission for payment for referrals to a "Dormant Affiliate Rate". Currently the Dormant Affiliate Rate is five percent (5%). The Dormant Affiliate Rate Adjustment does not apply to the pay per-lead plan or One-Time Payment Option. Company may at its sole discretion change the Dormant Affiliate Rate at any time and/or change the Dormant Affiliate Rate applicable to one or more specific Affiliate Program participants at any time. You further acknowledge and agree that, without limiting Company's other termination options, Company also expressly reserves the right to terminate Your participation in any and all of Company's Programs if You fail to provide any referrals for a period of one hundred and eighty (180) days. If Your account commission rate has been changed to a Dormant Affiliate Rate and You wish to reestablish a previous commission rate or otherwise change Your commission rate, You may request such change by contacting the Company at [email protected]. You acknowledge and agree that the Company shall not at any time have any obligation to grant Your request and that the granting of such requests are at the sole discretion of the Company.
--

Camsense/Camcontacts section 2 in terms

(2.1). An active affiliate ("Active Affiliate") of CamSense, the administrator of the affiliate programs for the CCNetwork of sites, for this purpose is:

One whose qualified spenders do not, in the aggregate, exceed chargebacks of 1 ½ % over a one (1) month period.
One who has complied with the CamSense Customer Identification requirements set forth herein within thirty (30) days after becoming an affiliate or within sixty (60) days from a request by CC Network for such compliance for existing affiliates.
One who delivers at minimum five (5) qualified spenders per month to a CC Network site,

(2.2). CamSense has the option to discontinue the payouts for your referred visitors who have become qualified spenders on a CC Network site upon your failure to meet the criteria for an Active Affiliate over a two (2) month period.

Thanks, I find that complete BS.

[hacktic]

Originally Posted by hacktic

they disabled my account too for the same reason after i notified them about a bounced cheque ($500+).

And of course ... they didn't reissue their bounced cheque.

[boneless]

got the same email today from them, alltough they sent me paxum money every x months, so i do make moneys from the recurring. Class act of them...fuck over the guys and girls that made the program work for ya...

[James_Hotmovies]

We changed banks in May and older checks are no longer valid.

We 100% reissue checks for those affected studios and affiliates.

I'll check you account when i'm back in the office later today.

[hacktic]

Originally Posted by James_Hotmovies

We changed banks in May and older checks are no longer valid.

We 100% reissue checks for those affected studios and affiliates.

I'll check you account when i'm back in the office later today.

Well, check number is 28897 for $520.08
And you already "looked into my account" 2 month ago. The result was that you disabled the account instead of reissuing the check. you also wanted to send me a database dump of your ed powers movies, do you remember? :p

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by hacktic

Well, check number is 28897 for $520.08
And you already "looked into my account" 2 month ago. The result was that you disabled the account instead of reissuing the check. you also wanted to send me a database dump of your ed powers movies, do you remember? :p

I'm in philly... just sayin

[James_Hotmovies]

yes, I do remember.

I sent the check on for re-issue and re-enabled the account.

I forgot to send the dump.

I'll send now and find out what happened and reply via email.

sorry for the issues.