The most relevant post in this thread...

Having been around during the 60's I remember the race problems that existed. Rioting in the cities. Not a good time. In the 70's the wounds healed. It really started to seem like race was becoming a nonissue.

Today, the racial divide in this country is worse than I can ever remember. Apparently the US was not ready for a black president.. Or at least this one.

The majority of American voters apparently WERE ready for a black President, this one (there is a vocal minority that cannot accept that):

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/201...ck-win-660.jpg

Obama has already accomplished a significant amount despite the intransigence of the party of NO, and the even more extreme kooks that are trying to take over the GOP (tea party/liberpublicans).

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ublican_sm.jpg


:stoned

ADG

You don't have kids, do you?

Recently here at the campground by the lake there was an attempted kidnapping of a girl about my daughter's age. We now teach our kids to be observant, and in the event someone tries to grab them we teach them to fight fight back and be loud - especially our daughters.

If my daughter was followed by a 28 year old man for twenty minutes, I would expect her to do exactly what Martin did - Flee, and then when confronted try to fight.

I would expect my daughter - or anyone else - to use common sense here, which seems to be lacking over all: You don't get out of your car to follow a potential suspect around in the dark.

And even more so after a 911 operator tells you not to.

And this is where more lies come into play. Setting aside the fact that Zimmerman had multiple chances to identify himself and didn't do so, Zimmerman got out of the car to see... A street sign? He's on the neighborhood watch in a complex that has only three streets - the same complex where he's lived for two or three years? Yeah, that makes complete sense. You would think after two or three years he would know every street and every sidewalk.

Zimmerman didn't go to look for a street sign - Zimmerman chased the kid. The kid was running, and Zimmerman went after him. Zimmerman also said - which was part of evidence at the trial - that once Zimmerman found him, Zimmerman "walked towards him". (This was an audio interview that night at the police station; The following day during the video interview he said Martin jumped out of the bushes from behind him and jumped him - yet I don't think anyone could hide behind the bushes I saw in the video.)

Here's how I think this went down... As is plain from the 911 call, Martin was fully aware of Zimmerman and had circled Zimmerman's truck. Zimmerman failed to identify himself in any way - odd, why wouldn't someone of the neighborhood watch ID himself right from the start? Martin continues on his way, talking on the phone, when he notices Zimmerman is now following him on foot. Martin runs; Zimmerman says this on the 911 tape. Zimmerman goes after him. (He wasn't looking for a street sign - He knew what street he was on and Zimmerman knew the street on the other side of the apartments.) Zimmerman got off the phone with 911, pulls out his handgun, and continues to search for the kid. He finds the kid - just yards from his destination - and confronts him. During the police interview that night Zimmerman said "I walked towards him". Martin, who has been followed for over seventeen minutes, who ran from this man, is now confronted by Zimmerman.

Martin did everything right - he fled, and then when confronted, he fought.

Martin didn't attack him from behind; Zimmerman was punched in the face. For all we know Zimmerman attacked first, but being as Martin is dead he can't tell us his side of the story. Zimmerman must have had his firearm out; He clearly didn't pull the firearm out from under him from under his jacket while Martin was on top of him beating him; That's difficult to do without someone beating on you. Martin was on top of him, but Zimmerman wasn't getting this huge beating that they tried to paint at the trial; Zimmerman got a fat lip and two small cuts on the back of his head.

I've had my daughter do more damage to me by accident.

Zimmerman had multiple run ins with the law, and was a wannabe cop - he was about to graduate with a degree in criminal justice and had applied at least once to a police force. Don't tell me he was going to be an attorney; Why would he apply to a police force if he wanted to be an attorney? Why would he be training at a martial arts gym if he didn't want to be a police officer? Someone who wants to be an attorney doesn't join the neighborhood watch, arm himself, and then chase suspects through the dark?

Zimmerman - who was going to the store that night - was armed not only with a handgun, but also two flashlights.... When he left the truck, he had a firearm, a cell phone, and two flashlights? Who the fuck carries two flashlights with them? I mean, other than a police officer.

And the gym... I watched gym owner testify - what kind of bullshit was that? Zimmerman trained for how long, but had never thrown a punch in the gym? How the fuck is that possible? They don't give you ten months of training before throwing the first punch.

I am looking at the flip side of the coin.

Let's say that everything Zimmerman has told us is true. In the end, we have a very standard, run of the mill fist fight. You can't shoot and kill someone because of a fist fight. Help was seconds away; Police were on their way and witnesses and were on the scene seconds after Zimmerman shot Martin. All he had to was hold out another five or ten seconds, and instead of being a national villain he would have been a local hero.

No offense, but you are Canadian. We don't care about your opinion on our politics, just like we don't give a shit about your politics.

Is the race issue becoming worse, or is it because you see things differently after forty years of experience?

You said in the 60's there was race riots, but yet things are worse now than they were forty or fifty years ago? If things were worse, wouldn't people be rioting more often?

It seems to me the older I get the more I see things differently.

Rochard I do have kids.

And your long winded answer never addressed what I said.

IF your daughter had been "Trayvon" and jumped on a guy and started swinging then yes you would be devastated that she was killed.

BUT...on the flip side, you didn't tell me: If that tall, athletic, black, and unarmed 17 year old was beating the shit out of your daughter and she was armed...would you say that she should just lie there and let him beat her as long as he wanted WITHOUT pulling her weapon and putting a hole in him?

Is that what you are saying? Because that's exactly what you suggested that Zimmerman should have done.

Is that what you would want your daughter to do?

I wouldn't. I'd have my daughter shoot him dead.

Just like George Zimmerman's family are glad he is alive and not TM.

You just don't jump on people and start swinging. There are consequences to actions.
And getting out of your car and walking down a street to keep an eye on somebody at night in a neighborhood that was being robbed over and over is exactly what the "neighborhood watch" is supposed to do.

Every neighborhood watch organization that I have ever seen were on foot walking the neighborhood. I'm guessing the only two reasons that GZ was ever in his vehicle are:
A) He's a lazy fuck
B) It was raining.

But jumping someone and beating them down? That is a crime. And if someone did it to your daughter under ANY circumstance...I would hope she is armed and shoots them.

I guess you would rather she just lie there and get beaten and be a "hero". (in an earlier post you suggested that somehow GZ would be a "hero" if he had just laid there getting beaten...didn't know the bar for "hero" was set so low these days)

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

A Libertarian is not a Republican no matter how much you try to make it so.

A Libertarian believes in maximum freedom for the individual with central govt. having a minimum impact.

Republicans believe just the opposite. They want to control everything you do.

I was a Democrat because of my social liberalism. But I found that Obama is no different than Bush. Killing people worldwide, spying on us, non-transparent, etc.

There is only one party for a true liberal minded person...Libertarian.
Unlike Republicans and Democrats, I don't need the govt. to tell me how to live my life. I'm a grown man.

But you guys just keep on pretending that it's a "team sport". Rah-rah-rah!
Democrats are great and noble and just smarter than everyone else! And Republicans are all fat, greedy, stupid racists!

Yeah! That's real life!

Fucking sheep. lol

Says who?

Your links are not relevant and this is not YOUR country to take back

Bullshit, no matter how many times you say it, it is bullshit

Not at all, just pointing out how Obama is race baiting

Hate to break it to you, what you "think" means nothing to anyone except you. Try to stick to facts.

What kind of training does a 911 dispatcher get?

Wait, you said "So your argument in the first point is that what the dispatcher said is not what she actually meant? Ah, I see, a code. Well you got me there. I can't win that one dude. I guess my mistake is interpreting the words as per their definitions." yet in the next breath you say "What she said isn't up for debate."

Apparently it is up for debate because what you think she said is not what she said. :2 cents:

That pretty much sums it up.

I'm the child of an interracial marriage. I've seen race issues from both sides.

If Zimmerman had his gun out, how was Travon able to bash Zimmerman's head on the ground?

<You can insert stupid answer here>

I think Obama has IRS problems, with the new testimony on the hill pointing to Washington giving the orders, he has NSA problems, people don't like to be spied upon, he has people pissed about drone attacks killing innocent people, The unions are now against Obamacare And Homeland security can't even secure the border. Yet he can make several comments about a 17 year old that attacked a neighborhood watch and got more than he was ready for!

So let's ask this, if someone is attacking you, your decision to protect yourself should be weighed carefully and race should be taken into account? Because those protesters sure seems to think that? Crazy world we live in.

Just out of curiosity…

If Joe Blow is on the ground getting his ass beaten to a pulp, what is the proper course of action for Joe Blow at that point in time?

What he did up to the point of getting beaten to a pulp is irrelevant, not only in this case, but in every case. Self-defense is self-defense, not proactive ass kicking.

According to Rochard, you're supposed to just lie and wait there, get punched, get your head beat against the concrete and see if you survive and hope for no brain damage. Then just go home. Of course, if your attacker see's your pistol and goes for it... just close your eyes hope for the best.

He doesn't believe anything he's saying. He started out with a very visceral, highly emotional reaction (most likely because he has kids this age) and went with that feeling to determine "Martin is innocent no matter what and Zimmerman is a murderer no matter what"... everything said after the fact is just silliness because he's painted himself into a corner based on feelings, not facts.

Even better... he then is forced into disagreeing, not only with the evidence that was heard, but with the Court, a jury of 5 moms who heard all the evidence, the detectives, the police chief, the FBI, the state prosecutors office and every witness that testified. Kind of a hard spot to argue out of with facts and reason, when there are none. You have no choice but to start inventing them.

Everyone has to ignore this obvious fact that all the other weak arguments and opinions disguised as fact, from a legal standpoint have nothing to do with the exact moment the gun came out and the trigger was pulled. All that matters is what constituted a reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death in Zimmermans eyes. Attempting to argue that everything else matters is necessary since there really is no other argument that doesn't prove Zimmerman did not act in self defense at the EXACT moment he pulled his gun out and used it.

All the other details are just the desperate arguments of someone who has no real legal argument when it comes to who's at fault in the situation. I can't imagine there has been a murder trial in my life where the so many were watching in awe and so many journalists and legal specialists were stunned at the lack of evidence and the poor prosecution of the case.

Rochard said that if you are getting your ass beat...just lie there and let the person beat you until their arms get tired.
And then you are magically a "hero". :1orglaugh

Well, he was a Marine and has had extensive training. Probably sound advice.

I think ADG and BFTK need to post some more pics of the President looking like a God and juxtapose that with pictures of greedy fat white racist people.

That sure isn't elitist of them now is it?

Marines are well known for laying down and playing dead. It's what they train for. Thats why they always survive bear attacks also.

That must be what they taught him in the Marines.:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That's good to know. :)

I had always thought the Marines were about bravery, honor, and discipline. But Rochard is saying that they are trained to lie down and get beaten and become "heroes"???

Strange world isn't it?

I'm giddy with excitement, I can't wait for them to call you a Republican again.

I'm headed to the hood right now in neon dolphin shorts and a mesh, half shirt. Just gonna walk into the liquor store, lay there and within a few minutes, i'll become a hero.

The trial had nothing to do with "Stand Your Ground" laws, it was a self defense trial.

Before Obama was president there were people who said if we would elect a Black president we would no longer have race issues or at the very least would improve. Not only did that not make things better Obama has made things much worse and deliberately so.

When the POTUS says things like "if I had a son he would look like Trayvon" or "that could have been me 35 yrs ago".

He most likely didn't. Zimmerman had two very small cuts on his head. Clearly his head wasn't wasn't bashed into the pavement at all.

If his head was bashed into the pavement, wouldn't he had been rushed to the hospital for an MRI or a cat scan?

I didn't say that all. I said Zimmerman had other options. His best bet would have been to try to fight Martin off while help arrived. Instead using restraint, he used deadly force when deadly force was clearly not called for.

If he had tried to fight Martin off without shooting him, he might have been a hero instead of having one teenager dead and Zimmerman's life destroyed. Then again, maybe if Martin lived he would have told a completely different story.

I guess a broken nose qualifies as a small cut?

http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpre...pg?w=423&h=317

You're having trouble with the truth brother.

And you still have NOT answered my question:
If your daughter was being hit by a young man for ANY reason and was on the ground with her on top of him:

Would you want her to shoot the guy? Or just lie there like you said Zimmerman should have done and be a "hero"?

What's your answer?

I know what mine would be: I would want my daughter to shoot him.
And if Zimmerman had been a woman...TM wouldn't be talked about in the media as a "child" for goddamn sure.

If the white side of Obama had a son maybe he would have looked like this kid:

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top...tt-not-guilty/

Funny how this kid was killed under very similar circumstances to Trayvon but for some reason his death has not elicited the same national coverage and outrage and was obviously not worthy of special Presidential attention. I guess a white boy being killed by a black man doesn't fit the race-baiter's narrative.

Obama's next press conference should include this line: "if I had a city it would look like Detroit."

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

ONE HUNNERT AND FITTY "HEROES" JUST LAYING THERE GETTING BEATEN

Where would anyone get such a wacky idea?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GFHHS9hLsF...nference_2.jpg

The fact is, the reason Ron Paul and Rand Paul don't run as Libertarian candidates is because they are unelectable as Libertarians, so they have transformed into Liberpublicans.

FACT: When Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian candidate for President he received less than 1/2 of 1% of the vote.

Nationally, in 2012, the Libertarian Party had it's best showing ever in a national election, yet they still received less than 1% of the popular vote from the electorate.

It's easy to make wild claims and unrealistic proposals when you know that they will never be tested since you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected. :2 cents:

Liberpublicans like populist innocuous sounding proposals - who isn't for maximum freedom and minimum government?

It's only when you look closer that you realize that they are peddling platitudes, bromides, and snake oil cure-alls. Empty sloganeering that will never be tested, in order to generate millions of dollars in fundraising donations.

I hear Libertarians say this, yet Ron and Rand Paul run as Republicans. :1orglaugh

While it is true that the Republicans and Democrats are both capitalist parties that are not as far apart as each party would have the public believe, Liberpublican utopia is a crackpipe dream.

Unfortunately, due to our political structure, and how much money and organization it takes to compete in elections, it is increasingly hard for smaller parties to get any foothold with the electorate. The winner take all system virtually shuts out most 3rd party candidates at anything above the local level (not that 3rd party candidates do that well locally either).

I've always thought it was curious that after the US defeats a nation in war, that we have them adopt a Parliamentarian form of government, instead of our own form (Japan, Germany, Iraq).

Listen to you, talking like a big boy (or is that the testosterone steroids talking)? :upsidedow :winkwink:

The two most identifiable Libertarians, Ron and Rand Paul, are hypocritical frauds and opportunistic Liberpublican sell-outs... :2 cents:

Much as Libertarians like to proclaim their political purity, they engage in the same type of dishonest politics as the major political parties which they supposedly despise (and they have all but become a wing of the Republican party, lol).

Liberpublicans are like kids that hate sports because they always lose. :winkwink: :1orglaugh

The Libertarian Party is to politics what the Church of Scientology is to religion.

http://thelastofthemillenniums.files.../libertian.jpg

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpre...bertarians.jpg

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servist...C2690D5D53.jpg

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...ibertarian.png

http://franklycurious.com/media/1/20...tarianpets.jpg

:stoned

ADG

Your cartoons are stupid on this ADG.

Ron Paul isn't a Libertarian at all. And Rand Paul is about as far away as you could get.

Ron Paul has SOME "Libertarian" ideas...but he's not even close to being a real Libertarian.

You're a nice guy and everything. But to blindly follow the Democrats like they were the San Francisco 49'er is an ignorant thing to do.

The party of George Wallace and Robert Byrd is what the Democrats were for most of our lives (you're about the same age as me).

Their fairly recent "rebirth" to try and be tolerant and inclusive to social liberalism is something that was done for political reasons (like everything that every party does).

I can't even get you to understand anything outside of your Democrat comfort zone. Republicans are EXACTLY the same way.

No room for other ideas or concepts. And anyone who dares to NOT conform is ridiculed and shunned.

That kind of elitism and arrogance is what is hurting the Democratic Party (well, that and the fact that on important issues there is no difference between you and a Republican)

Have you really lost your way so much that you can't understand that a Libertarian simply wants LESS govt. interference in his/her life. That's it. Nothing complicated. Just simple personal freedoms.
You want to watch porn? No problem.
You want to smoke pot? Why not.
Gay marriage? Sure go right ahead.

But why don't you keep posting cartoons drawn by assholes who are trying to keep the two-party status quo because that's the way that the crooked politicians can keep their power.

Good move ADG. Showing some real deep thinking and class on this one.

I'm not a Democrat...so your premise is wrong from the start, but thanks for playing. :smilie_we

How are the "real" Libertarians (who sure seemed to be supporters of the Paul's in past elections), honestly going to change the status quo when they can't even attract 1% of the popular vote? :1orglaugh

http://insertyourmeme.com/wp-content...do-590x406.jpg

On the bright side, you're part of the 1%. :winkwink:

:stoned

ADG

Rochard -- If there are only 3 streets, why was he Followed for 15 minutes or did you say 28, or whatever amount of time?

Anyone have a Map of where the Store is, and distance from TM house and Path??? I did miss first day or 2 of Trial so, sorry if this was in there...

Three streets - Retreat View, Twin Trees, and Long Oak Way. Shooting took place at point three on the map. Zimmerman's truck was left on Twin Oaks closest to point 3, yet had to get out and walk between the buildings to see what street Retreat View is? There are two ways in / out of the complex, and no matter what you going to pass Retreat View every time. How in the world he could now know what street was on the other side?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNNqQrIzlP...640/images.jpg

Why was it seventeen minutes? Martin was a teenager and in hurry to get home. He more interested in talking to his girlfriend than he was going straight home. He took as long as possible. Not uncommon at all with kids.

This is very simple - you meet force with the appropriate amount of force. If someone is hitting you, you hit back. If someone is shooting you, you shoot back.

You don't shoot and kill someone because they punch you in the face.

This was a fist fight the ended up with the two of them rolling around on the grass. Zimmerman got a fat lip and two small cuts. His life was never threatened, nor he sustain any serous wounds. He did not go to the hospital, nor did he go to a doctor directly after the event.

If he was in a hurry to get home then why did he make it home and then leave. My guess is he was looking for a fight.

Yeah, its very simple. The law, the court, the judge, the jury, the FBI, the State Prosecutor, the witnesses, the detectives and the police chief have done everything humanly possible to make it clear that it was self defense and justified. The rest is just you making shit up.

Its also funny to see you constantly omitting the fact that he had a broken nose. You're very dishonest in your explanation.