theking

Yes...all four of them.

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winter_

snowden is finished, he is on his way home. you just can not betray the n.s.a. like that without quick efficient help to get you on the safe road for your escape. moscow is yonks away from beijing, shanghai, hong kong, he is finished, this is almost over.

the fact of the matter is the united states is so vunerable. people are pissed in that country they are realising hold the fuck on this is not what i voted for in my blue government. people are pissed including thousands of government employees and their systems are so fragile and delicate one slight mistake and they would be sent in to turmoil.

whether snowden is really a genuine double or triple agent i don't know. but i re-iterate this is happening more often now people are not happy.

dyna mo

can someone help me understand why this guy deserves a medal?


america didn't create espionage and state secrets and high stakes games of world diplomacy and international intrigue.


y'all expect the u.s to be the only open book country of developed nations in 2013?

Rochard

He seems to be in Russia.

Think about this for just a moment. He's a former NSA contractor with top secret clearance who has already betrayed his country. You really think Russia is going to just let him leave?

He's about to learn that water boarding is more like something your older brother does to you at the lake during summer vacation. LOL.

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MaDalton

you guys are hilarious btw... the Russians are laughing their asses off and have absolutely no intention to do any harm to him. Just watch RT

they will question him and then help him to get to whatever country that will give him asylum.

The US has given several Russians political asylum that the Russian government demanded to be extradited - now they will return the "favor"

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crockett

I hate to break it to you but the US is far away from having any sort of revolution. As long as people can buy nice cars, houses, have easy access to their basic needs they will be far to lazy to do anything...

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AdultKing

Snowden, Assange, Manning are all heroes. Shining lights bringing out the truth.

The USA, UK, NZ and Australia proudly call themselves democracies with freedoms unmatched in the rest of the world, however the truth is they together run one of the most invasive, controlling and insidious intelligence programs the likes of which the KGB could only have dreamed about.

People are routinely pulled out of their beds in Australia by ASIO and the AFP just for being Muslim, held without the right to speak to lawyers, to tell their families where they are and then when released are not permitted to talk about their experience because that itself is a crime.

As it turned out from the cables releases of Wikileaks, several senior members of the Australian Parliament were/are actually CIA assets. What kind of democracy is it when the foreign power that is the USA has a hand in Australian policy settings beyond the scope of the influence of Australian voters ?

We are well past 1984, however George Orwell was wrong - 1984 wasn't to be the product of a totalitarian regime, it was to be the product of the so called leading democracies of this world.

Rochard

And this surprises anyone?

Does it really surprise you that the largest and most powerful intelligence agency in the world has spies in foreign governments?

Wow are you are naive.

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adulttraffic

He will be moved to a non usa friendly country or stay in Russia. The fact he missed his flight is probably because they haven't found a country that will take the heat from the government. He will have a new home before the week is over.

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globofun

I would chose Cuba....for the beaches!

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AdultKing

I'm not surprised, I just think it is wrong and undermines the concept of one vote, one value in our Westminster system.

Joe Obenberger

Guessing that the whole Ecuador thing is false bait. Probably misdirection. But not a bad country in which to live a very rich life.

The Russians have made their point, Putin is enjoying a laugh, and now, I think, they want him out of their hair. The problem is negotiating a final destination. It's looking like the Wikileaks people have developed some real sophistication at international diplomacy, and it looks from here that they are driving events.

Venezuela, Iceland, Switzerland.

The US government now seems so furious as to verge on being out of control on the issue of this man. The language they are using - concerning a man under federal indictment and supposedly in line to have a trial some day - is simply unprecedented. President Obama didn't hesitate to address it in his press conferences - the tradition, even with Nixon, was not to comment on pending criminal cases. (That seems to have gone out the window about the time that the Patriot Act became law.) They thought it was all figured out, to nail him in the wee hours of Sunday, but he'd been tipped off and flew the coop. They simply aren't used to this and they aren't used to being made to look like fools for all the world to see. There may be some desperate missteps, but one thing seems certain - that Mr. Snowden has sharply reduced the risk that he will be assassinated - he's just too high visibility for that now. Seldom in history does so much hinge on just one man.

Meanwhile, what's going on with Bradley Manning's court martial? My hunch is that what the government did to Manning is an important part of the backstory on Snowden's actions. You will recall that some of the charges against Manning were dismissed by a courageous military judge because of improper "command influence" - namely, the President commenting on this trial. That's entirely unprecedented in US military history - you will recall I served in the JAG Corps for four years.

The whole thing really is spinning out of the power of the administration to control. The usual media partners are not enough to contain the story and assassinate Snowden's character, and now they appear to be trying too hard; the criticism has become vitriolic. The expected casualty of all of this is most likely big chunks of the Patriot Act itself. I won't mourn for it!

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EddyTheDog

Well put - You do realize you are on GFY?..

All1

Maturation level is contradictory, stupid.

theking

It is not.

maturation

? n
1. the process of maturing or ripening



maturity

noun
1.
the state of being mature; ripeness:

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theking

Snowden and Manning broke their sworn oaths...which does not make them heroes...but does...at the least...make them criminals and at the worse make them traitors.

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Joshua G

it all depends on your point of view as to the laws they are breaking.

like when king george III made american colonists criminals because they refused to quarter british soldiers. After all, it was the law. who cares if the law is legal or moral right?

by this logic our founding fathers are criminals & traitors. We should return the USA to the british ASAP.

All1

Report in stupid.

noshit

Traitors to who? Your freedom?

All1

Stupid for duty sire

theking

Can you point out which of the founding fathers took "sworn oaths" to the British ...because off hand I cannot recall any.

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theking

Traitors to the country/government/employer to which they made a sworn oath.

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Joshua G

all colonists were legal subjects of the royal crown. They did not need to swear an oath as they were born subject to british law. Thats why there was a revolution...

The declaration of independence is a laundry list of british laws & practices the americans found to be illegal. just like snowden supporters find PRISM & the patriot act to be illegal.

baddog

I am trying to wrap my head around that comment. You are suggesting that someone is not violating a law if he and someone else feels it is justified?

And as I recall our history books, the British saw our founding fathers as criminals.

Are you putting Snowden in their category?

theking

All Americans are legal citizens/subjects of the American government and do not have the need to swear an oath...unless they take employment that requires a sworn oath.

What does anything that you have stated up to this point in time have to do with breaking their sworn oaths...which is what Snowden and Manning did...and which is my point.

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Joshua G

sorry. i did not make it clear enough.

snowden is considered a hero for breaking laws he considers illegal. AKA breaking his oath to expose a surveillence program he considers illegal.

if one thinks his actions were the right thing, for exposing abuse of power, he is a hero. if you think his oath is protecting legitimate conduct, you think he is a traitor.

the american colonists were british citizens before 1776, & broke british laws they deemed to be illegal. The boston tea party was a rejection of the stamp act. this is a well known example of this revolt against a british law.

you are saying snowden broke the law. but you say nothing as to whether he was doing the right thing. By analogy, this suggests you find the propriety of a law irrelevant, & by that logic, our founding fathers are criminals for breaking british law.

basically what im saying is you are benedict arnold & you dont even know it.

theking

The U.S. government is composed of the Legislative branch and the Executive branch which enact laws. The Judicial branch decides what laws...those two branches enact...are legal or illegal. The people of America have provided these branches of government with that power. All three branches of government have agreed that Prism and the Patriot act are currently legal...although on several occasions since the original Patriot act was enacted the Supreme Court has knocked parts of it down.

Snowden and Manning do not get to decide what is legal or illegal...they both made sworn oaths and they both violated their oaths.

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All1

Pig shits drastically lowers the median iq here given he is so stupid

Joshua G

as you are in california, i'm sure you are well versed as to the opinion of californians to federal anti marijuana laws.

Every pot seller in cali...are they law breakers or citizens exercising revolt against an illegal federal intrusion on their conduct?

theking

I am not saying that Snowden and Manning simply broke the law...they broke a "sworn oath" which is more than breaking a mere law.

BTW...your Benedict Arnold analogy does not apply to me at all but does apply to Snowden and Manning.

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Joshua G

why does my point about a laws legality just completely go past you? so you really do agree with benedict arnold...american colonists cannot decide if british laws are legal or illegal...king George III & his parliament passed them, case closed.

you talk like you have no knowledge of why the revolution happened & why the constitution & its bill of rights was created.

theking

You are talking about mere laws and I am talking about breaking a "sworn oath" which is above and beyond simply complying with the a mere law. You apparently do not place any value on a "Sworn Oath".

Benedict Arnold took an oath to serve in the Continental Army but when he was passed over for promotion...he violated his oath and became a traitor when he defected to the British Army.

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Joshua G

tell me more. how is breaking an oath above breaking a law. is the penalty greater? is it a higher crime then murder, which is a mere law?

theking

Violating a sworn oath can be and has been treated as an act of treason...which could have applied to Snowden or Manning.

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baddog

They are violating federal law; that is not even a question. Now, if they are taking the risk because they want to be shut down so they can challenge the law, then I will say they violated federal law in order to start the process and I salute them. Otherwise, not so much. Am I glad the state allows it? Of course. Should the feds allow it? Most definitely. Still a crime.

Joshua G

treason is a law no? you go to jail for treason right, just like breaking a law? I believe my point is made so if you want to dodge the discussion on a technicality go right ahead.

theking

You apparently find that a law...is a law...is a law...so I will...thank you very much...you are now dismissed.

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Mutt

I don't see the outrage from the public over this, they seem relatively unconcerned. And what Snowden has revealed is nothing that we already didn't know. People, especially on the Internet, love excitement added to their dreary lives.

The US is a pretty open book, the reason these scandals and conspiracies eventually do get exposed is because of the freedom of speech, a free press and little government intimidation. This guy broke the law, if in his heart and mind he felt he was doing the right thing, the patriotic thing, then good for him, he still broke the law. If he's tried in the US people will have the right to protest and let their voices be heard that they believe he did the right thing. There's absolutely no way Snowden's in any danger of getting the death penalty and all of you who think he's going to meet up with some 'accident' are loons - for anything to happen to him now would make the government look like the evil tyrants they're accused of being. they want nothing to happen to him other than standing trial for the crimes he committed.

I'm all for responsible and knowledgeable people who report and investigate and blow the whistle on those in power - it's the 95% who are kooks building their make believe cases on facts that aren't really facts who make me nauseous - revolutionaries in cum stained sweatpants.

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Joshua G

thats fine. i was simply making a point that people violate laws as a form of revolt against said laws. many people think federal drug laws are unjust, & violate them as a matter of protest.

do i think snowden = thomas paine? not exactly. snowden is exposing a surveillence program while paine is protesting tyranny. However a secret surveillence program certainly can be used to conduct a tyranny, depending on whos running it. & in our political system, those leaders are constantly in flux & you never know when the wrong man gets power.

Mutt

They would tell you themselves their acts were criminal and treasonous under British colonial law and they were prepared to give up their lives to overthrow the British - many of them did give up their lives. And they won.

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just a punk

Indeed. BTW that's a good example on how the "freedom of speech" works in the USA for real

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just a punk

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dyna mo

well, it appears that none of y'all who say snowden should get a medal can answer my question of why he should get a medal.

so i'll ask it another way-

what medal should snowden be awarded and from which country?

are you saying that the country he traited against should award him a medal for treason?

how would that work?


again, serious questions.

crockett

I doubt Snowden took a oath he was after all just a random contractor. Maning on the other hand took a oath to protect the constitution and the people, not the govt...

They both did the right thing.

seeandsee

He is now russian bitch

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crockett

A lot of people have broken the law to protect our rights. It's one of the ways citizens can push back against unjust actions of a rogue govt.

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crockett

Interesting that you care so much about law of a govt vs the liberty of the people. Do you even remember the oath you supposedly took?

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vdbucks

for as much as he carries on about sworn oaths, broken oaths and the like, sure seems like he would remember the very oath he would have taken if in fact he ever was in the military... I've been out of the Army for going on 15 years and I still remember it...

The most relevant portion being... But, if he ever really was in the Army then it would seem to me that he forgot those very words, because so far all he has "defended" are those domestic enemies who have been shitting on the Constitution since 2001...

GWB, Obama, doesn't matter... The reality here is that this whole "left vs right", "dem vs rep" nonsense is nothing more than a smoke screen in order to keep the sheep occupied while their very freedoms continue to get stripped away bit by bit. And so long as they have facebook, american idol and the mainstream media feeding them bullshit in order to occupy their time and keep people from focusing on the real issues, nothing will change.

And this "revolution" that some people keep harping about will never happen because today's generation is full of nothing but lazy people who are incapable of thinking for themselves and whose very existence is a complete and utter waste of space.

But I digress... it's bush's fault... no it's obama's fault... no it's the tea party's fault... no it's the liberals' fault... no it's the conservatives fault... so long as there is someone for the dumb ass american people to point a finger at, they'll never realize that all of this happening is, in fact, their own damn fault.

Sexier

We are having some beers on my backyard ..

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Mr.K

Give him the Nobel Peace Prize - along with Assange and Manning