there's never been any question in my mind the russsians won the war in europe, we supplied a shit ton of stuffs and some good solid hands on but those russians fought it up, had a massive foot army and took tons of casualties.


if it were all still ussr, i would not want to wage combat with that foot army.

Moon??? We are talking about the space race, not the Moon, Mars, Venus or Jupiter one. The USSR did the first successful Moon landing. The USA have sent a first man to the Moon. The USSR was successful with Venus landings while the USA were much more lucky with Mars... but wait! How does it relate to your statement that the USA won the SPACE RACE?

Space, you know. The cosmos outside the Earth atmosphere. That's not Moon, Mars or Alpha Centaur. Still didn't get it? Ok, Wikipedia will help you on that.

it's no different at all, afghansitan is a shithole cesspool that we fell into, just like y'all did and many others before that.

we too lost in afghanistan.

again, i've said it before here, i'm very anti-war. i happen to know a bit of history of it and also like history so i share that but i do not advocate war at all.

Depends on your point of view.

With Iraq, our intentions were to remove Saddam and his government from power. This happened very quickly. A new government is in place, and they are no longer a threat to anyone. Mission accomplished.

In Afghanistan our goal was to remove the Taliban from power, and hunt down Al Qaeda. The Taliban is no longer in power, Osama is dead, and Al Qaeda has lost it's "base". A new government is in place and that's that - Time to leave.

Funny how you point to a link on Wikipedia about "outer space" and not the "space race" itself. Here, let me help you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race

The Space Race wasn't a race to space, it was a race for space exploration. You seem to like Wikipedia, so here is how Wikipedia defines the space race:

Again, how many people did the Soviets put on the moon?

The pilot means very little in his combat skills when the missile that shoots down his plane, was launched 20 to 50 miles away by an aircraft he will likely never see.

The Korean war was really the last time air to air combat was close range. Modern air war takes place at ranges the pilots will never see each other. Meaning a drone has significant advantage over a human because the drone can stay in the air much longer and the loss of it doesn't result in the loss of years and millions spent on flight training.

You shoot down a drone and the pilot can fly again the same day.. Hell that pilot can control more than one at a time.

I was always a big fan of ww2 and even Korean war dog fighting. It was man & machine vs man and machine and remarkable most of the planes were fairly closely matched or developed tactics to fight each other, which is amazing in it's self. However those glory days of the pilot really mattering are almost long, long gone.

OK,

1st satelite - USSR
1st man in space - USSR
1st man on the moon - USA

What am I missing here?

Replace Saddam with Hafizullah Amin. Still somehow different? :winkwink:

Wrong attempt. The article was written by the same US "patriot" like you. It definitely doesn't matter what is written there because we have facts: first satellite and human in the SPACE are Soviet. Period.

Again we are not talking about Moon race.

You missed first successful Moon landing :) LUNA 2 - USSR :)

So 4:1 for the USSR so far :pimp

my penis is bigger than your penis....





btw - fun fact - Russia still owes the US a couple of billion USD for tanks, guns etc. that the US sent them in support of the war against Hitler. After the war the whole equipment was destroyed and Stalin forbid to ever speak about it again.

OI!!!
I think you'll find that a small island fighting on the western front on its own while the US deliberated on how to make money from the war before entering had something to do with it!
If Germany had just the one front to worry about don't you think they would have made it to the Russian oilfields before they were stopped by the Russian weather?

Nukes is what counts on end

I am not a "US Patriot". I am more like a history buff, and surely a World War II history buff.

You give me a link to Wikipedia about "outer space" and yet when I give you a link to Wikipedia about the Space Race, you claim it was written by a "US Patriot". The Soviet Union led the way into space with the first satellite into space and the first man into outer space. In fact, the Soviet Union had a lot more firsts in outer space which you fail to mention. But after it's original successes, the Soviet Union floundered. No matter how much the Soviet Union tried it could not put a man on the moon. The Soviets gave up in 1970 after the Americans put men on the moon twice.

But the space race didn't end there - The US continued to put men on the moon, and then continued going into outer space with the Space Shuttle. The Soviets tried to copy that, but that didn't work out too well either.

While you and I bicker like school children about this, the truth is the majority of our rocket technologies for both the US and the Soviets truthfully came from Nazi Germany.

Why stop there... Mother Russia and Japan are still at war.

Shortly before Japan surrendered, Russia declared war on Japan. They never did sign a peace treaty, and to this very day still fight over a chain of islands they both claim as theirs.

Also, I just learned the other day... The island of Saipan... Which was the sight of a brutal battle.... Is now in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands... Which is a Commonwealth of the United States (similar to Puerto Rico....).

You missed one. First living creature in space. Too bad she died with your little experiment. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2367681.stm

When it comes to the space race, the Soviets dominated in the early days. Besides the obvious, they also had the first animals in space, first woman in space, first spacewalk....

Anybody ever watch that show Deadliest Warrior? They had an episode of Spetsnaz vs Green Berets I think. Pretty sure Spetznaz won on that occasion. End of thread!

Just kidding :) That show's results don't mean anything... It's a fun watch sometimes, but it is kind of dumb with too many random variables that they don't really take into account. One episode they said that SWAT was better than an elite counter terrorism unit from Germany. Then there's also the incredibly stupid Knight vs Pirate episode... Apples vs oranges in that one...

:1orglaugh

indeed - both nations each took 50% of OUR rocket scientists...

plus we had the first working jet fighter and the first stealth bomber..

if only we had used all that for more peaceful purposes... :Oh crap

we prefer the term *recruited*. :winkwink:

ours too :(

there were canadian nazis?

i did not know that.

If Germany was able to mass produce the first jet fighter.... It would have changed everything.

Oh Hi there! :hi:hi

i'm going totally by memory here but didn't adolph put the kabash on the me262 for years?

he screwed it up by demanding to turn it into a bomber instead.

payload too small, engines not powerful enough to carry the load and an otherwise excellent plane wasted on the wrong purpose

"lost" is a wrong word to use... nobody lost in Afghanistan, not Russians, not Americans... both came there, stayed there, controlled territory, got tired of wasting money and dealing with poor brain washed lunatics (which don't care about their own life and blow themselves up) and left... if let's say USA was in a war with Afghanistan, and Afghanistan pushed back, came and destroyed most major cities inside America and America would sign it gives up than THAT'S what I call LOST... how can you loose if your actual country inside didn't suffer, but other country got bombed to stone age ?

oh right right right, thanks ! :thumbsup haha, he was such a tard.

lost is the perfect word to use.

Germany could have mass produced it. However Hitler was more worried about a jet powered bomber, by the time they refocused on the fighter it was too little too late. Had they focused on the fighter, the allied bombing raids might not have been so effective.

oh, are you British? I thought you was American. the first operational jet fighter was the UK's Gloster Meteor.

Yeah, Hilter didn't see the value in having a jet fighter... If I remember correctly, he started and stopped the program many times, and made so many changes to the program that it never really got off...

It depends on what you consider a victory. Winning a war used to mean "unconditional surrender". Germany and Japan come to mind here. Since then, the lines are less clear.

Iraq was a victory for the US. The US took control of the government, it's military, and the entire country.

You can argue that Afghanistan - for both the US and the Russians - was a victory. In both cases the military was defeated, the government replaced, and most of the country occupied. However, in countries such as Afghanistan (and Pakistan) the government isn't in control of the entire country. In Afghanistan, no matter what government is in control there will always be multiple armed groups trying to over throw them. But did Afghanistan ever attack Russia? Nope. Did Afghanistan ever invade the US? Nope. Not a clear victory for anyone, but I wouldn't really call it a defeat for Russia or the US. At a certain point fighting a war is not viable from a political standpoint.

Yes Russian army is good as the US army, only in propaganda they are several years behind.

rochard and i will have to disagree on the outcome of afghanistan but we do agree that in war there are the victors and the vanquished.


a stalemate against a guerilla force is not a victory.

I wasn't interested in you evading the question when I asked it several times, what makes you think I'm interested in you evading it now I've given up asking? Go back to pretending you were simply trolling Richard, or trying to generate 25 more posts.

In a world where unstoppable missiles travel for miles, there's no need for planes, manned or unmanned.

Of course. No big deal. We have an unlimited supply. They can be replaced in minutes at no cost.

lighten up francis. you might think you are clever but shocker, you're typical.

ok - you win

but i'm not american either

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Russia > USA. Sorry to disappoint.