Because it wasn't built when Stalin died. (I'm tired, so apologies if I missing an irony in that comment somewhere.)

Where do you get that information? What do you mean on defeated? Haven't the USSR controlled the biggest part of Afghanistan when Gorbachev has agreed to stop this useless war? Do you know how long the Afghanistan government formed by the USSR has been able to hold out without ANY help (even financial) from Soviets? Dig the facts please and you will be surprised. The Amin's government has been overthrown. Najibullah took power in Afghanistan. Soviet army has controlled almost the whole country (not even comparable with the current USA situation there). Soviets were able to continue controlling the country and supporting Najibullah as long as they consider it necessary.

Goals have changed. Army was withdrawn. Mission accomplished.

because i like letting you think you are mad gfy troller.

kewl.

i understand that, you might want to reply to the op then, you sound like you might have some info along those lines.

i mean the ussr collapsed as a result of over spending on military and not being able to continue funding its nuclear program, umm, you know that right?

i'm sure i am not the only one on gfy who knows this.

You're the only one saying I'm trolling (so you can try to evade the question).

You said we won the cold war. So quit evading. Either explain what you think we won, or admit you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Sorry my bad. Course I mean Brezhnev. No even Khrushchev, because he was the same sort as Stalin. Till 1982 (actually till 1980-1981) Brezhnev was the one who has tried to leave the things as they are and don't change anything. After his death there were no real hindrance to destroy the Wall.

Something you guys always over look when trying to compare the US to other armies..

The US has been well practiced with 2 wars over the last 10 years and we have special ops doing things all over the world.

What has Russia or China for that matter done in the last 10 years other than drills? What was the last "real" war for the Russians, Afghanistan where they pretty much dissolved the USSR. Chechen War is about all they have really done in the last 20+ years and that was really not a straight up fight.

China.. what have they done since WW2? Tossed a bit of support in Vietnam and shot some Tibetan monks?

Actual combat experience goes a long way, something the US has had lots of recent experience with... :2 cents:

i don't have to explain jackshit. do your own research, lolz.. lazy bastard.

Course not. It has collapsed due to many factors. The military overspending was far not the worst one. First of all, all the Soviet economics was rotten and it wasn't able to exist in the modern world. The people were not agree to live this way and the government too (that's why Gorbachev has started his reforms). And the final nail into the Soviet coffin was serious drop in oil price.

So the military overspending was of of the factors, but it was definitely not enough to collapse the USSR.

P.S. The USSR has collapsed when Cold War was already over.

you disagree because you're russian, that's cool, this isn't my opinion it's the view of a large # of cold war historians. i understand your view, the ussr collapse was merely a coincendence that it collapsed when it did (right after being spent into oblivion facing the SDI as well :-)) and that very well may be a mind-blowing coincidence eh

wouldn't that be something!

cold war ended in 1991, way after berlin wall fell.

My research? You seem to be confused, dyna mo. You're the one making the claim, not me. Remember?

I'm starting to think that the sad truth is you have no idea what you are talking about. :(

Well, by those standards the United States wasn't defeated in Vietnam.

The United States was not physically forced to leave Vietnam and could have held out indefinitely if it choose to so. I believe it was very similar for the Soviets in Afghanistan - they could have stayed, but at what cost? And what would have been gained?

Nobody ever wins in Afghanistan. A lesson nobody ever learns.

he's not going to see that the russians lost in afghanistan either Rochard, he's russian, they haven't lost anything.

That's because I saw the fall of the USSR with my own eyes. Everybody here knew it was cumming since 1980. In 1986 it was absolutely inevitably, and not because of Cold War - believe me.

Here is quote for you which sums it up: Lower classes" do not want to live in the old way - guess what does it mean and who is the author?

P.S. Fox and CNN propaganda may look almost like a truth but it's still just a propaganda *my two cents*

Perhaps. You must know it better. I wasn't even born when Vietnam was has ended. Furthermore, I haven't live in Vietnam or even in the USA during that times :2 cents:

yes, i am recalling cnn and fox news reports from 20+ years ago to report to you that you lost the cold war.

that makes sense.

where were the rest of us? not born yet? you were what 12? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Somewhat like you refusing to admit we won nothing after the cold war ended.

Definitely not in the USSR :2 cents:

Warfare has changed over the past twenty years. War used to be carpet bombing and lots of destruction, huge armies facing off against each other. Now it's all about small missile strikes that neatly destroy government and military operations. The second war with Iraq was over the moment it started when the first missile strike completely destroyed Iraq's entire command and control - and they never saw it coming.

No one noticed, but the entire nature of war itself just changed over night over the past few days... The US launched an unmanned jet off of an aircraft carrier, the USS George Bush. Doesn't sound too impressive until you stop and think about it: In the next decade, the United States will be deploying jets with no pilots and then ships with no crew. While we will always need boots on the ground, just imagine a war where one country can launch thousands of planes without fear of loosing a single pilot.

http://gdb.voanews.com/A6F01B9D-ACD5..._w640_r1_s.jpg

Sort of makes that submarine the Russians spent seventeen years building look kind of silly doesn't it?

if that how you need to look at it, sure, go for it.

You're welcome to try and convince me that some dude on a Pentagon Xbox can fly a plane better than an actual pilot. Won't lose a single pilot? No, we'll just lose a shitload more multi-million tax-dollar aircraft.

Thanks for your permission.

i need to get over there though, i've been wanting to shoot some of the girls there for my site.

you are welcome.

an extra 25 posts in this thread because i had made the comment we won the cold war with the ohio class sub, fucking around with richard's anti-american fucking around lolz.

If you like to do it your way of the way of Rochard, sure, do it. I.e.:

1) We won WWII! (ok, how many German tank divisions were destroyed by the USA? how many German soldiers were killed by the USA? who and when hoisted the US flag on the Reichstag)?

2) We won the space race! (c) Rochard (ok, has the USA launched the first satellite or the first mad into the space?)

3) We won Cold War! (c) you. (ok, do you really believe that that USSR has collapsed because of the military overspending?)

My father died in Vietnam when I was nine months old.

What happened to the United States in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan is very similar. A huge and powerful country invaded a smaller and weaker country, and was surprised when the smaller country fought back. The large country was firmly entrenched and could have stayed for as long as it wanted so long as it was willing to invest the money and manpower.

The United States could have stayed in Vietnam, but why? The political fall out was huge, there was no public support, and the US was spending lots of money and loosing American lives for what - To fight communism? Best case scenario for the US in Vietnam was to install an anti communist government there that was friendly to the US - Hardly worth what we paid.

Likewise, the Soviets could have stayed in Afghanistan, but why and at what cost?

It takes a lot more than having a large and powerful military to win a war...

Only in case if you invent a time machine :2 cents:

english please.

Absolutely similar to that the USA have now in Iraq and Afghanistan :2 cents:

Специально для тебя. Ты попадешь в СССР только тогда, когда ты изобретешь машину времени. Объяснить почему или ты сам догадаешься? :pimp

this thread is hilarious! I mean really.

so i'll answer helterdude now that he's not on my cock.

we won a stockpile of arms (that's weapons to you, helter), we spent ourselves into oblivion and created a shit ton of new enemies, etc.

if i knew more about it i could go on but that's my opinion.

it's important because a-bomb haven't been used for a while while conventional weapons have.

The Russians never lost the war in Afghanistan, they went there, they stayed, they withdrew, just like the US did (will do?) in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Not saying that watching Tom Hanks playing a drunken senator wasn't fun though.

the us will finish up pulling troops out of afghanistan in 2014.

I'm not sure who you mean when you say "We won WWII".

There is no doubt in my mind that the Russians would have owned Nazi Germany if given enough time. No one suffered more then the Russians, and no one lost and then gained more ground than the Russians. The Russians, more or less, defeated Nazi Germany on it's own.

However, WWII was not fought in Europe alone. While Russia was playing footies with the Nazis while getting help from the US and the rest of the allies, the US was fighting a completely different war on it's own against Japan. I am not sure what you know about your military history, but Japan and Russia was going at it before Japan attacked the US. What do you think would have happened if Russia was forced to fight a war on two fronts - one against Nazi Germany, and the other against Japan?

Did Russia put a man on the moon?

No wait, better yet, check out the Soviet Space Shuttle...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Buran.jpg

Do I really believe that the USSR collapsed because of military over spending? I have no clue.

But it seems to me the United States did not collapse, nor did NATO (which still exists), while the USSR seems to have dissolved and the Eastern Bloc is.... No more. Come to think of it, a lot of countries in the former Eastern Bloc is now in NATO - Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Albania... Hell, even the GDR (East Germany) is now part of NATO.

So and how it will be different to that the USSR did in 1989? :winkwink: