I understand the point you are trying to make but I believe it to be wrong.

As far as law vs. crime, I completely agree.

the issue is political, not about guns

I don't follow.

The issue is about taking responsibility. It's made into a political issue because those that want unrestricted rights to firearms fail to accept that as a society we have the "responsibility" to do everything we can to keep those guns out of the hands of criminals.

This is an issue about mental health and how millions of people live on the edge of society while everyone hopes they don't do something stupid.

We have a complete and total lack of responsibility. If you are a responsible firearm owner, great. But I bet you 80% of us aren't.

The mother of the shooter in the Sandy Hook shooting is a perfect example. She thought she was a responsible firearm owner. But she knew her child had issues - he had seen a head shrink in high school, had multiple forms of autism, was unemployed, depressed, and spent most of his time in a dark basement playing violent video games surrounded by posters of military hardware. Days before the shooting she told a friend she was "loosing him".

How many kids have found loaded firearms in the past week and shot and killed someone by accident? How the fuck does anyone show off a loaded handgun to a friend when there is a child in the house?

Years ago when I was a kid my older cousin brought in a loaded shotgun he recently purchased into the house to show off. When my father discovered it was loaded he kicked him out the house.

This is the problem - a complete lack of responsibility.

bad relationship ,loss of a job, bullied etc does not = metal issues

You cannot use "psychiatry" as basis for gun control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...e_Soviet_Union

the blame is on the access to the guns, not the guns themselves. laws are put in place to prevent those humans who are at higher risk to use them for violence. no one is saying that guns shoot people without someone pulling the trigger. that would just be stupid.

how someone reacts to those situations can definitely be a sign of a mental issue that might have never really surfaced before. normal people don't just snap and kill.

Background checks work. NRA members agree.
No more straw sales.
Too many redneck psycho morons with access to guns.

Yet the NRA lobbies to stop any sort of mandatory background checks at gun shows..

As I said earlier...when I was a kid in the 1960's, EVERYBODY had loaded guns in their homes. My parents, my friends parents, my grandparents. And we kids were taught to shoot them. Went hunting with my dad and grandfather (and my grandma would take me squirrel hunting with her .22)
And my dad, and everyone else that we knew all had pickup trucks with gun racks with loaded rifles and shotguns in them.

Guns were just another thing around the house. Like sharp knives, boiling water on a stove, etc.
Kids today are so fucking sheltered and "protected" that they ARE a danger when they are around a loaded gun. Didn't use to be that way.
Hell, all my buddies in highschool who had pickup trucks had loaded rifles on their gun racks parked in the school parking lot.

Nothing was thought of it. It was natural.

Try that these days...you'd have the swat team swoop down on your ass.

I had a similar childhood. While my mom detested guns and didn't allow them in our house, everyone I knew had them. If you went out into the parking lot of the high school I went to there would be at least a dozen trucks with gun racks in them that held guns (and even more during hunting season). You were just taught to respect them and stay away from them and that they weren't a toy.

This isn't to say that there weren't accidental deaths, I'm sure there were, but the taboo of them was gone.

you have to wonder if modern people could survive using fire on a daily basis :2 cents:

I doubt they could. lol

I think we shelter our kids too much these days. It started with the drinking laws going up to 21. Suddenly grown men and women at 18 were still thought of as "kids".

Even the recent ObamaCare has parents leaving their "children" on their insurance (and paying through the nose for it) until they are 26 years old!!!

WTF?

It wasn't that long ago in human history that you were considered a man way before you were 18...much less 21 or 26 years old.

So we end up with 21 year olds walking into a bar for the first time in their lives. No idea how to handle themselves.
And in the case of guns, it looks to me like we get generations of young people who have already slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people virtually with their video games...and have no idea of the real life consequences of an actual weapon and no value of life.

I lived in Texas when I was 18, drinking age 18... no hiv, no herpes and the pill was super popular with the ladies... life was grand for sure...

I went to see the Eagles in concert a couple of weeks ago, and Glen Frey quipped:
"The 1970's...sex didn't kill you and we didn't take drugs, we were expanding our minds"
heh-heh

Blame those same hippies that wanted free love and drugs but then traded it all in for big houses and BMW's. They are the ones making the laws today and were also the ones that started the whole trend of shoving every pharma drug they could get their hands on down their mouths as well as their kids..

Are you seriously comparing gang on gang violence with the massacre of 20 children? Do you give a fuck if gangbangers kill each other? I don't. Kids on the other hand is another story.

What are you talking about Bryan?

I"m pointing out that criminals don't go to the store and go through a background check. Don't you understand that?

And none of the laws being proposed would have stopped what happened at Sandy Hook.

What is so hard to understand about that? Or are you just trying to troll?

I've said over and over and over that IF the citizens of the U.S. really want to disarm themselves, then the U.S. Congress should simply repeal the 2nd amendment.

Then all guns become illegal. And the cops can start rounding them up.

Then all the folks who think we shouldn't have guns will be happy and MAYBE gun violence will go down. (and other forms of violence will rise I'm sure).

You do speak English right? Am I not communicating this well enough? Help me out Bryan....tell me what I'm not making perfectly clear to you.

President Obama COULD have done something starting in 2009 when he took office. He did NOTHING. This is all politics.

I read something that I found interesting yesterday. As of 2005 there were more than 2.5 million registered guns that had been reported stolen (obviously that number will have gone up since then) and roughly 30% of all crimes committed with a gun are done using a stolen gun. The huge majority of these guns are handguns.

Clearly stealing guns is a major way that criminals get guns. I wonder what, if anything could be done to help educate people on how to make it more difficult for their guns to be stolen.

I'd say that stealing guns is THE way that criminals get guns.

But if a person breaks into your home while you're away and steals all your valuables (including guns)...then how do you "educate" someone to stop that from happening?

Most folks keep their gun somewhere that they can get to it quickly if needed (the closet, under the bed, etc.) in case of someone breaking in while they are at home.

And even if you put your guns in a locked case or gun safe...criminals routinely just take the safe or the case.
Same if you lock your jewelry or cash in a safe. They just rip the safe out and take it with them.

That's why I say the ONLY way to handle this is for Congress to repeal the 2nd amendment (not saying I want that to happen, just saying that it's the only way that would work). Then the govt. could make all the gun control laws it wants to...including banning all guns.

Yes, guns would still be in the hands of criminals. But at least that MIGHT stop something like Sandy Hook from happening because that crazy fuck's mom wouldn't have been able to have a gun for him to steal.

There are a lot of people who just leave their guns sitting around. They leave them in their car or just propped up in the corner of a room, or on top of a dresser, or inside the dresser. I can see if you are around and want them out so you have easy access to them, but if you are gone and just leave them sitting out you are providing zero resistance to getting them stolen if someone breaks into your house. If you have a proper gun save that is bolted down or you hide the guns or have a secure storage place for them it it makes it less likely there will be an accidental shooting and it provides some kind of resistance to the would-be robbers. Sure, they can take the safe and stuff like that, but many robberies are situations where they are in and out as fast as they can and they don't have the tools, know how or ability to remove a safe. If you leave it in your car, you just asking for it to be stolen.

So I think there could be better education on how to handle and store guns to at least help reduce the risk of them being stolen.

I wouldn't be opposed to making a person prove that they have a safe, secure storage place for the gun before the are allowed to buy one.

You have some good points kane...but in everyday real life, most folks are not gonna have their guns unloaded and in a safe.

Also, when robberies happen it isn't always a fast in and out. People have their safes ripped out of floors and out of walls too. Happens all the time.

As for a gun safe...it's not like a small safe. It's shaped like a gun case...a big, tall rectangle.
In order to secure something like that would basically require you to spend thousands of dollars to have your home renovated and anchor that monstrosity in concrete...and even then they can break into it.

There is nothing that you own in your home that can't be stolen, no matter what you do.

And your last point about being forced to prove that you have a safe storage place...that would totally be struck down as unconstitutional.
It would deny a large percentage of people the ability to own a gun (not saying that's good OR bad....just pointing out it would be unconstitutional)

Right now, as the 2nd amendment has been interpreted throughout our history by the Supreme Court...the govt. has no power to stop it's citizens from owning a gun.

I personally don't believe in disarming citizens. BUT, if the majority of people wanted to have the country disarmed (which they don't)...then the only way to do it is via repeal of the 2nd amendment.

Then congress would be free to enact any and every hoop they want you to jump through...or just ban guns altogether.

Anything and everything else is technically unconstitutional.

CyberHustler the title of that video was totally misleading. There weren't any "gangs" in that redneck gun show!

And the constitution (the law) says that people SHOULD be able to buy a gun. It's not supposed to be the govt.'s business. That's the whole point of the 2nd amendment.
That's why I keep saying repeal it if that's what needs to be done.

Anyway that video had nothing to do with gangs. It was a redneck gun show.

And the gun shows here in Vegas are held in nice Casinos. And they are attended by people with money and dressed nicely.

Anyway...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say NO, that is NOT where street gangs get their fucking guns! lol

That's where gun collectors get their guns. A guy in a street gang isn't gonna go pay full price at a gun show! They are gonna either steal them themselves or buy them "hot" on the street.

Speaking of which...how will Congress get rid of the "buy a hot gun on the street" "loophole"
It's ridiculous.

i think you can largely blame the need for learning a skill to get a decent job on this. it used to be you could drop out of school at 16 and get a good paying job in a factory or something that you could work at for decades if you wanted. now thats virtually impossible. you need to go to college for a number of years which delays kids from learning responsibilities and earning a living on their own, resulting in keeping the mentality of a teenager for longer.

as for kids and guns. in the instances of these toddlers shooting people, its how the parents keep the guns plain and simple but for older kids, if there are guns in the home they should be taught that guns need to be respected and should be taught safety features, etc about them. otherwise, all kids know about guns is what they see on tv.

hot guns cost more than buying a new gun typically. you are buying something that someone else had to risk a jail sentence to get and its something the seller knows you are going to use to make money or protect drug money, etc. either way, people shouldn't be able to buy guns at gun shows without background checks. it makes any background check useless if people can get go to a gun show if they know they won't pass one.

Since no one wanted to take the time to read the article I posted. I will help
"From 2008 to March 2012, Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale sold 268 guns recovered in crimes in Chicago within a year of their purchase. | Chandler West~Sun-Times"

As I said before all guns start as legal they dont fall from the fucking sky. Register every fucking gun. You want to have an arsenal god bless you. You are selling them to gang bangers, your ass will be rotting in jail. The ATF in a report in CA found half the guns in crimes came from gun dealers. Alot of these are out of the house dealers but they are licensed gun dealers.

All applicable to me as well. My dad gave me my first gun when I was ten...an over/under .22-410 shotgun. By the time I was a teen I owned a .30.06 bolt action rifle and a 12 gage pump shotgun. My guess would be that at least 90% of the kids in my age group had guns...and yes...in highschool those with pickups had gunracks with rifles and shotguns in the racks in school parking zones.

BTW...there was zero shootings in my town by kids and I cannot remember any adult shootings either...while I was in school.

I had a similar upbringing as well. I remember one time we were driving around in my uncle's Toyota Land Cruiser (one of the old school ones), he saw a peasant on the side of the road, stopped, pulled out a rifle, and shot it dead. Get caught doing that now and you will most likely get more than a fine.

Society has changed, and you said it yourself - When we grew up firearms were were tools. Today firearms are no longer tools, but instead toys. We hunted but the rule was you ate what you killed; Today most gun enthusiasts don't hunt, but claim the need for self protection and then go to the range because "it's fun".

My friend Tony who lives in town here is a perfect example. We live in a town with a low crime rate, yet he fears for his life and has loaded firearms stashed in every room. He's never hunted a day in his life because "sitting around doing nothing waiting for the chance to shoot something that isn't able to shoot back" isn't fun for him. But going to the range is fun. Firearms isn't a tool for him - it's a toy.

Not too nice for you and your royal line to be out shooting the peasants. :(

Funny, most of the shootings I hear about are these rare mass killings and inner city gun violence and suicides.
Nope, not rednecks.

Now they will shoot the shit out of a Stop Sign or opossum on the side of the road.

You are right, society has changed. Way More Violent Crimes. The tools instead of Hunting are now needed for Protection.

Toy -- Think a squirt gun would work for protection?

Anyway as long as he is not committing any crimes, Why the fuck do you care?

Are his weapons stored properly? That is just an excuse as walmarts gun stores pawn shops and so on have all been broken into and guns stolen

Way more violent crimes?

Violent crime peaked in the 1980s and has been on a decline here in the US since then.

And this is what kills me about gun nuts - they say they need firearms to protect themselves while violent crime has been going down for the past twenty - thirty years. My buddy here in town fears for his life yet lives in a town with a low crime rate.

Licensed gun dealers at gun shows DO call in for background checks.

In some states individuals and collectors are also allowed to buy table space. These sales fall under individual to individual type sales. To regulate those you are also saying neighbor to neighbor, friend to friend, etc, sales will become illegal unless the government is involved. Few politicians will even consider regulating what legal property I can sell the guy next door.

.

there is a huge difference between selling your friend a dvd player vs a gun. i don't see why that should be allowed. if individuals and collectors want to sell guns there should be some kind of middle man that allows them to sell but goes through the proper channels so background checks, etc are done.

All completely true....




.:2 cents: