Dude, lighten up. You're like the biggest source of negativity I've seen yet. Why not stick your head farther up your ass? Yeah, that'd be good.

No - - you still don't get it....

We are NOT entitled to life anymore than the 1 in 1000 fish eggs that aren't eaten by their mother...

What we DO have - as do all creatures - is the right to DEFEND our life - and do with it what we want.

We are not entitled to Freedom - we FOUGHT for it - we EARNED ir - and to keep it, we have to DEFEND it.

All by men who had a reason - the very reason you want to take away.

I'm sorry the tribal thing went over your head - that was about as basic as I could make it for you.

And I've asked 4 times now.... Why do YOU think YOU are capible of determining what is excess wealth - what is too much money - and who are you going it to - how much, and who isn't getting any? - You know - kind of basic stuff you keep leaving out.

I have been following this thread, seems when someone doesn't fit your party or click, its a gangbang, Oh sorry if your not into my neg. drivel. Maybe YOU should lighten up.

Gets old watching everyone slam everyone anymore. Maybe let others spread ideas, be them good or bad without doing the typical :321GFY I see so many bandwagoners doing.

Squarepunk, for one thing guys like you would never be invited to be a part of such a "dream" as this. For another thing, there are more noted webmasters than you realize who have taken a liking to the idea of this "dream".

If there were such a plan in the works, why would I spill any of it to the likes of you? Your questions would be about as important to me as which brand of asswipe to take along.

Leave MY money alone - do with your what you want...

But - tell me...
who are you assigning to decided how much of my money is excess - or yours, or the guy down the street that if it weren't for whoever taking his money was going to hire six new workers?

Think man.....

Spoken like a true Dicktator :thumbsup

Punkboy, let me point out all of your incorrect horse shit again so you can pretend its nonsense. (the tactic of the clown who can't back up his statements)

son, I'll compare life experiences any time you'd like.


why, because you completely ignored my facts about people being taxed at the rich rate even though they aren't rich?
ok, you bable on, I'll refute it.


Rich people have to pay to get in, poor people get scolarships and loans to get in. So the rich pay and the poor are gifted. Are you saying that if your a poor strait A student you can't land a good college? if so, you're a liar.


money that the parents earned and you have no business trying to grab you socialist punk.
again, you have no right to any of that money nor do you have a right to decide how the parents spend the money they earned

really? I don't remember telling the bank who my parents are to get a loan. I just remember having to show them i had a job and a record of knowing how to pay back a loan. are you saying that poor people can't get a job or pay back a loan?


Yes it does and you aquire a good social network by working hard in school, getting into a good college and networking with other like minded people.
how do you think its done? by taking money from rich people?

Thats why responsible parents do it when they can. what's your point?

yes it does and these are the perks of hard work. not standing in the welfare line waiting for your check.

to the dopey socialist, nothing. to the rest of society there is a huge difference between earning and waiting for your handout.

No, it makes you a socialist with no concept of how the world works.

only if they don't have the ability to work there way up in the world. Minimum wage is a starting point. too stupid to get beyond that, its not my problem the world needs those jobs filled too.


Yes

Yes they should because if I were out of work, I could find a job the second I needed one. Perhaps the many people you know looking for jobs are too proud to take a job they consider below them. perhaps this is because *unemployed* is no longer the embarrassment it once was or should be.


I have been and am in a much better position than you to know the truth. No, you're more the asshole that wants your betters to pay *their* money to cover *your* socialist agenda.:1orglaugh

Right, yet here you are cockin off to me over a simple dream, a fantasy. Let's laugh about that shall we? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh They're being allowed to state their opinions, and I am exercising the opportunity to state mine, I don't know what your majfunction is over that. It's called a discussion. You don't see me calling everyone else "fuckwad" and "fuckwit" do you? Just guys like you seem to crack open the schoolyard shit when the going gets a little tough eh?

I feel like laughing some more. Don't you? Let's all laugh together... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Where did you get these figures? I mean, I suspect from an orifice within your body, but I sure would like to see the basis for that information.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Okay I am now laughing. I am not against the island dream, hell I have even thought about it, but eventually, it would need to have all involved pitch in, be it money or working, that my board nemisis is taxes. That was my point to begin with.

I always have tried to look past day one and see day 50 or what ever. Course I didn't get started in pron, but instead roofing and construction, I had to do some hard thinking about my employees and stuff. So, here's to you island:
:drinkup

Promise to stay away.

We are not entitled to life? Better yet, you are not entitled to life? So, if you are not entitled to it, and I can break your defenses and kill you to get your possessions, it is morally ok?
If not, why?

Oh, and about your question: you are still assuming I am a proponent of an equal distribution of all goods, in other words, a communist. I am not. What I am is someone who thinks the basics - food, shelter, medical care - should be provided for those who can't provide them for themselves - not those who don't want to work. The reason for letting the rich pay more for this than the poor is quite simple; the rich can pay more than the poor without it hurting too much.
Compare it to carrying goods - if a strong man, a weak man, a woman and a young child would have to carry a bunch of stones somewhere, would it not be logical and just to let the strong man carry the most, and the child the least?

I am assigning the job to our duly elected officials (the government-city, county, state, federal) and when I don't like what my duly elected official is doing to represent me that duly elected official will not get my vote next time around. In case you hadn't noticed that is our system.

Hire six new workers at what wage? The minimum wage which is actually worth less than it was thirty years ago. "Man lives by more than bread alone".

I just don't they understand what a good conservative capitalist can do when he sets his mind to it.

Take 50 of them with a few bucks.... :Graucho

The idea... Money they can't take and give away..... NO social programs... WHAT? Scares the fuck out of you socialist liberials don't it?


:1orglaugh

No, again you seem to miss what I am saying, who is going to fix things??

You see one day, I see all year. That's the difference.

I believe you are confused about the meaning "entitled".

To be entitled to something - to have a right - it has to be given to you.

Someone has to give you the right to 'whatever' - if you are entitled to something - someone has to give it to you.

If you earn something - then it is not an entitlement.

Buying food is not - Food-Stamp are.

Are you following me?

Now, with that said - what the fuck has that go to do with me defending myself and my family?

As far as carrying rocks - I hire the kid down the street - he likes working for what he has.
:1orglaugh

Okay, I'll play along here. Squarebob, what makes you think that many webmasters aren't skilled in other areas? I can only speak for myself, but the fact is --- I did not go the college route. I graduated high school, worked at shit jobs for a few years, then went back to school and took electronics for a year, after which I became........ a security officer in a large hospital. I then took first aid and health care training and eventually became a health care worker in that hospital, and my wage more than doubled.

I worked the trades for years on the side. I eventually bought some rental property, and have never had to hire a handyman other than specialty jobs. I think I know how to clear a drain or dig an outhouse for that matter. I'm also quite sure that among so many skilled people there would be some ability to cooperate and get things done collectively. Imagine 50 pure capitalists all working together...

Once again a post full of nonsense.

First of all, what you said about people being taxed at the rich rate while they aren't rich: Never have I said that the system in the US works properly and doesn't need improvement.

Second, you have said absolutely nothing that disqualifies my point about how having wealthy parents will most likely help you to get wealthy yourself.
The only thing that was even remotely on-topic was your response that poor straight A students get into good colleges as well. That makes something very clear: if you are poor, you will need much more talent to reach prosperity than if you are rich. That actually is a rather good example of my whole point.


You made your ignorance quite clear with saying that you believe that everyone who doesn't have a job doesn't want one.

So... what's your fucking problem?

Quote:

Hire six new workers at what wage? The minimum wage which is actually worth less than it was thirty years ago. "Man lives by more than bread alone".

OK then... we won't hire any of them at all - and they can go live off the government - on YOUR money.

(and no, it would have been high paying construction jobs. But you pissed the guy off with your whinning and trying to take his money so he moved the job to Mexico just to piss you off back.)



:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Answer the question:

If you are not entitled to life, and I can break your defenses and kill you to get your possessions, it is morally ok?
If not, why?

Oh My - the dog got lose....

Actually - at one point in the 70's I WAS in what was defined as the working poor....

Had two kids then - Was the assistant manager of a Shoney's.

So - Sorry pup - you know not of what you speak...
We were doing fine and had no idea we were "poor".


It's all about money - the more "poor" your state can claim, the more federal welfare dollars they get - don't be fooled.

I know plenty of people that love or would love nothing better than to suck the tit of society while doing nothing but couch. Plenty.

I also know a few people that are out of work at least once a year or more, that refuse to take a job that is beneath them. One guy works as a mechanic's helper/machinist for half the year at most, makes barely enough to feed his family, then prefers to suck Unemployment Insurance rather than go pump gas or stock shelves.



As a counter example, I watched my dad many years ago..... he was working for the CBC in a well-paid job on a camera crew. Their union went on strike back in the 70's, and they walked the picket line for 5 months straight. I watched my dad take a job as a courier driver, work that job to it's fullest, and guess what?.... that's right, folks, he and his family survived without welfare, without going hungry, without asking the government to bilk the rich to give to the poor poor poor.

No crying please.

Now you are confusing being CIVILIZED to getting an ENTITLEMENT or having a RIGHT.

We are (somewhat) civilized because we agreed to be - not because we were entitled to it - or because it was a right.

You're really having a hard time with this aren't you?

I've been working poor myself. I haven't always lived in the palatial one-bedroom aparment I now occupy, so I do have an idea of what I speak.

I asked you if you had a source for the information you posted, that's all - the 1.5 cars, the cell phone, yada-yada-yada. Where did you get that?

Knoble Idea, but as humans we are all prone to being lazy, again my devils advocate point is that someone is not going to feel like picking up a shovel, may be below him, and then you may have to do 2 jobs because of the other guys refusal.

I have construction trade skills myself, don't want to use them anymore but, I don't disagree that you 50 could be all skilled in other areas, God I hope so, would suck having 50 porn webmasters around, would get pretty boring :), but again you are back to the community doing it, I equate that to a simple tax system. So the statement of no taxes can't hold true.

Well, I know many people that have been looking for work for quite some time. Yes, they even applied at McDonalds - no luck. Watched them try a whole bunch of different companies. They were considered too old, too young, overqualified, underqualified, etc. I'm talking about IT professionals with a university degree applying at McDonalds and Burger King here.

So, if I kill you, that's only <b>uncivilized</b>, and not <b>wrong</b>?

Hiring six new workers at minimum wage is a lot better than not hiring anyone at any wage because some beauracratic buttmunch is holding your money in the form of higher taxes.

Work first, then you're entitled to help. That's how it should be.

Sit around and cry that you don't have rich parents and think yourself above working a menial job to get started, and starve for all I care.

Huge difference between pooling some of each person's resources willingly and having it extracted from you forcibly every paycheque.

And when 50 people can come up with 2-3 million dollars collectively, you can actually afford to pay nearby companies to come and service your community when needed. I said 50 people x $50k each, but what makes anyone think that $50k is all each person has? What about ongoing earnings of each person? No reason to assume that everyone wouldn't be continuing to earn money as usual, because this internet business is quite portable, in that no matter where I live, my sites still exist as they are.


Sure there would have to be plans, agreements and compromises, but we're talking about a tropical island, not a shithole trailerpark. If it wouldn't be a labour of love for everyone, then certain people simply wouldn't belong there.

Yes, there are those examples too. However, IT professionals also have the ability to start something of their own. They probably own a computer, and if so there is nothing stopping them from starting their own business online, for example. Too many people have "job" mentality, that the only way to earn a living is to work for somebody else.


The opportunity for people to live comfortably and become successful is there for them, they just have to be motivated enough to go after the dream. Or stay broke. Life is a choice.

What an ass - it's gone from explaining what 'entitlement' means to you - then the difference between an 'entitlement' and a 'right'.

Then I had to explain that simply acting 'civilized' was a 'choice' that has nothing to do with being 'entitled' to it.

NOW - I have to clearify what "right" (or 'wrong') means - and how it differs in relation to the other words?

You expect an awful lot out of me - :1orglaugh

They really should teach this stuff in school.

First off the opening post by 12 clicks was very good. Very creative and intelligent. What your forgetting is tickle down economics doesnt work. Secondly you all believe the poor pay nothing. We went to go visit my wifes younger sister, the kid is 18 single works at burger king. I offered to do her taxes for her instead of her getting charged $50 for someone to do a short form 1040ez. THe kid made $13,000 dollars last year paid in $1500 in Taxes and was getting about $500 dollars back. THat is not zero taxes and when you consider how little the kid makes thats alot of taxes to pay plus the ss they take out. Also she has no deductions, no kids nothing to write off. I think anyone who makes under 20k shouldnt be taxed at all to tell the truth. I do well for myself and I am going to have to pay but I do have a accountant who protects me. Anyone who thinks we are going pay less taxes is a fool . Look now a Republician President who was supposed to be for smaller government has been on a spending spree with our money. Politicians like spending our hard earned money and as long as that is be prepared to pay taxes. The people who make the statement the poor just have to pick them selves up and do it. Reminds me of a friend of mine who graduated college has a good job, does well for himself. He makes those same naive statements, he forgets how he lived under his parents roof when going to school. They also paid for his college. So when he speaks I laugh. Also some people have not been blessed with the tools god gave us that we take for granted. Being able to learn quickly or speak well are gifts not everyone has. I think people forget that and instead of thanking God everynight, they criticize and judge others who havent been as blessed .

Now your starting to answer what I was asking.

Dude. Your definition of entitled is lacking. Plain and simple.

Now, what I was trying to show (it would have worked with someone with an iq larger than his shoe size, but unfortunately I only had you to work with) is that if something is <b>wrong</b>, it's because you're taking away something someone is <b>morally entitled</b> to, in other words, you are not respecting someone's <b>rights</b>. Note that I'm not talking about the law, but about ethics.

You have the right to live (=> you are entitled to your life), and it is wrong if I disrespect that right and kill you.

I would have been quicker, but there was that issue of you laughing and scoffing etc. Sort of puts a crimp in the chances of having a normal conversation.



Further to --- defending the shores of the island.
I want shark nets around every beach. And I'm sure we can purchase some good radar-guided weapons systems at a bargain price somewhere in central America :winkwink:

maybe a few automated machinegun nests, some laser guided stingers etc. A sovereign nation has to have defenses, right?

Let's see if this will work....

PunkWorld has 2068 posts (points
FatPad has 4430
and CDSmith has 5202

and ol Dave here only has 303.


Dave want's a GFY leather jacket.

Since you three have excessive points - (not taking into consideration that you''ve all posted more than me), more than I have decided you need - each will put 15% of your points in a pool which I will empty as I -need- them more than you do.

It's cold where I live, warm where you live - so you owe me a coat. I have the right not to be cold.

Thank you.

:thumbsup

Hey, Davey ... where'd you get them statistics?

You haven't changed a bit 12clicks. Still the crusty old mean bastard I remember and love.
:)

Let's see here.... you are in W. Virginia, I am in Winnipeg, Canada.

Man, you don't know what cold is. :1orglaugh


By your "coat" example, you guys should be giving me 40%, because it's been below -40 here for the past while.

We're all speaking in generalizations. When the word 'you' is used it's not meant to be a personal attack. And the word 'could' is the optimum word here. Just like the gentlemen posted earlier about having 2 millionaire friends and a doctore friend who only makes 300k. the doctor pays more in taxes because of the way the other two have their businesses structured etc. Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but it's because they have more tax offsets to lower their taxable gross - i.e. their 'company' pays for their car, their insurance, and shit load of other things as a benefit- not to mention countless other tax offsets. So, when it comes time to give out tax breaks, it's my opinion that the doctor should get them b4 the other two.

That basically was my entire argument. You just can't look at the taxes you're paying in. All things considered, you're already receiving tax breaks thru legal tax offsets which the poor simply do not have the opportunity to use. So when it's time to give tax breaks, one has to take everything into account.

Obviously, they won't be receiving any more tax breaks then will they? The entire argument that you were making in the beginning is who to give tax cuts to. Don't confuse my response to your post with the other dribble that went on in this thread.

Really, when was the last time a poor person benefited from a cut in the capital gains tax? If paying taxes were as simplistic as you are recommending for tax breaks, then i would agree with you. You just can't look at the smaller picture and say this isn't fair - i'm being discriminated because i'm rich, when the bigger picture isn't fair to begin with.