Battle of Cams

[Crazy Enough]

So, I have been testing some live cam sites. Each site was promoted for 30 days on the same site.

>>> Flirt 4 Free, Joyourself, Cams.com, Streamate, Bonga Cams, Chaturbate <<<

For my surprise, the best converting site is...

Cams.com



May I say the worst converting one? Joyourself (Livejasmin sister, or brother). I don't know why, because if I had to bet, I would bet all on Joyourself. The new design is amazing, and the models are very hot.

It seems that nothing is making sense anymore.

[EddyTheDog]

That is interesting - How did Chaturbate do?

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by Crazy Enough

So, I have been testing some live cam sites. Each site was promoted for 30 days on the same site.

>>> Flirt 4 Free, Joyourself, Cams.com, Streamate, Bonga Cams, Chaturbate <<<

For my surprise, the best converting site is...

Cams.com



May I say the worst converting one? Joyourself (Livejasmin sister, or brother). I don't know why, because if I had to bet, I would bet all on Joyourself. The new design is amazing, and the models are very hot.

It seems that nothing is making sense anymore.

Sounds crazy enough.
{see what i did there?} LOL!

[vending_machine]

What is a conversion in your mind?

Those sites on there are not the same in terms of how you join so you may be comparing apples to oranges.

[Sabby]

Cams pays the models for converting guests to members also. They get a higher % on their bounty members. So it makes a lot of sense actually.

[daniel_webcams]

Originally Posted by Crazy Enough

So, I have been testing some live cam sites. Each site was promoted for 30 days on the same site.

>>> Flirt 4 Free, Joyourself, Cams.com, Streamate, Bonga Cams, Chaturbate <<<

For my surprise, the best converting site is...

Cams.com



May I say the worst converting one? Joyourself (Livejasmin sister, or brother). I don't know why, because if I had to bet, I would bet all on Joyourself. The new design is amazing, and the models are very hot.

It seems that nothing is making sense anymore.

what about webcams.com ? let me know what your account is , I can help suggesting some nice tools (ICQ:354220339)

[mopek1]

How did the rest do and how much traffic did you send each?

Also, traffic type? SEO,trades etc...

[adultmobile]

Fascinating. If want try tubecamgirl.com too... (but we have no revshare, if that you search for).

[iSpyCams]

With cams you are dealing with the site's fraud scrub (necessary but can cause a lot of false positives) their shave (everybody shaves, nobody admits it) and who's on at the moment and what mood they are in. There's a lot of variables.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

With cams you are dealing with the site's fraud scrub (necessary but can cause a lot of false positives) their shave (everybody shaves, nobody admits it) and who's on at the moment and what mood they are in. There's a lot of variables.

This may be a stupid set of questions, but I've never seen them asked or answered. Is shaving an illegal business practice? Are there penalties or other actions governments can pursue against a company that shaves money from an affiliate? Are there grounds for a lawsuit from affiliates against companies that shave?

[spiederman]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

With cams you are dealing with the site's fraud scrub (necessary but can cause a lot of false positives) their shave (everybody shaves, nobody admits it) and who's on at the moment and what mood they are in. There's a lot of variables.

i dont shave

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Failed

This may be a stupid set of questions, but I've never seen them asked or answered. Is shaving an illegal business practice? Are there penalties or other actions governments can pursue against a company that shaves money from an affiliate? Are there grounds for a lawsuit from affiliates against companies that shave?

It's definitely fraud as well as possibly other things like conspiracy. In most cases it's also likely a felony due to it crossing state lines and the dollar amounts involved. The problem is it's difficult to prove, the authorities typically aren't looking to protect adult affiliates, and you need money to sue.

But in theory if you are an affiliate and you have proof or something reasonable you could try suing and getting subpoena for employees and owners to admit to it. It would either be that or lie under oath.

In theory it's also a great way for the government to take down an organization if they can get proof of shaving. Being fraud it would likely open the door to RICO act violations and racketeering charges if the government saw fit to seek them. The government would present the adult company as "a criminal conspiracy". They could either get an employee to break and admit to it or sign up as an affiliate and conduct a "sting operation" where they gather evidence for trial. Unlikely but it's possible. Personally I hope a fed is reading this right now and that I gave them an idea.

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

It's definitely fraud as well as possibly other things like conspiracy. In most cases it's also likely a felony due to it crossing state lines and the dollar amounts involved. The problem is it's difficult to prove, the authorities typically aren't looking to protect adult affiliates, and you need money to sue.

But in theory if you are an affiliate and you have proof or something reasonable you could try suing and getting subpoena for employees and owners to admit to it. It would either be that or lie under oath.

In theory it's also a great way for the government to take down an organization if they can get proof of shaving. Being fraud it would likely open the door to RICO act violations and racketeering charges if the government saw fit to seek them. The government would present the adult company as "a criminal conspiracy". They could either get an employee to break and admit to it or sign up as an affiliate and conduct a "sting operation" where they gather evidence for trial. Unlikely but it's possible. Personally I hope a fed is reading this right now and that I gave them an idea.

I am sure that if no one cares about adult piracy no one is going to give a flying fuck about adult shaving.

First off you would have to be able to prove it. The only way to really prove it is do a series of signups your self in a way that makes it look like you were a group of people signing up. This is certain to be against the TOS of any program. And speaking of the TOS there may be language in most that says something like "payouts for approved sales only at our sole descretion" and they will just tell you that your sales were not reported because they somehow failed a sniff test or were "flagged by super secret fraud detection algorythms".

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

I am sure that if no one cares about adult piracy no one is going to give a flying fuck about adult shaving.

First off you would have to be able to prove it. The only way to really prove it is do a series of signups your self in a way that makes it look like you were a group of people signing up. This is certain to be against the TOS of any program. And speaking of the TOS there may be language in most that says something like "payouts for approved sales only at our sole descretion" and they will just tell you that your sales were not reported because they somehow failed a sniff test or were "flagged by super secret fraud detection algorythms".

This is pretty much true as we all know. In my opinion if you do a test signup and it doesn't credit you - RUN no matter what the excuse. Just assume you are being fucked. You had reason enough to do that test signup in the first place and should consider it confirmation of what you suspected.

As for the government all I'm saying is it would be a great way to take down a company which is already in their sights but they cannot get any other way. Sign up for a few affiliate accounts, have some government employees conduct tests, document. Do it some more. Then roll out the charges. Crack a few employees and make them sing under the risk of felony fraud charges and conspiracy. It's easier to prove than connecting them with pirate uploads because it's easier to gather evidence. If I were a fed this is what I would do.

Reps think it is normal business but it's fraud. Usually at the felony level and across state lines. I'm not saying it will happen but if the government truly wanted to 30 years or more in prison is a real possibility if they tried to pile on the counts of fraud and the charges.

[tobe87]

Love the sound of Cams.com in the morning!

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

This is pretty much true as we all know. In my opinion if you do a test signup and it doesn't credit you - RUN no matter what the excuse. Just assume you are being fucked. You had reason enough to do that test signup in the first place and should consider it confirmation of what you suspected.

As for the government all I'm saying is it would be a great way to take down a company which is already in their sights but they cannot get any other way. Sign up for a few affiliate accounts, have some government employees conduct tests, document. Do it some more. Then roll out the charges. Crack a few employees and make them sing under the risk of felony fraud charges and conspiracy. It's easier to prove than connecting them with pirate uploads because it's easier to gather evidence. If I were a fed this is what I would do.

Reps think it is normal business but it's fraud. Usually at the felony level and across state lines. I'm not saying it will happen but if the government truly wanted to 30 years or more in prison is a real possibility if they tried to pile on the counts of fraud and the charges.

A solution that is less expensive, and more rewarding, and a lot more realistic is just to make your own sites and send traffic to yourself. This is what I started doing 5 years ago and never looked back. Even the shittiest site in the world converts better than a burned out program and at 100% revshare you only have to convert half as well to make the same money.

[lazycash]

What kind of sample are we talking about in terms of average traffic that went to each program?

[vending_machine]

I guess we'll never see an answer to the parameters of the test?

This thread is useless.

[Crazy Enough]

The site I used to test has traffic from several sources, but most of it comes from Google.

The test was made on the same site, ~15 days through pop under and ~15 days through banners.

I don't believe I'm comparing oranges to apples. Live cams is live cams, maybe the way to sign up or to pay is different, but this is a reason for me to test them all, so I can discover which one works better.

Conversion for me is the proportion of levels: Visits on my site to clicks to the affiliate site, visits coming from those clicks on my site to free member sign up, and finally free to paid members.

I don't know why but I forgot to test webcams.com! Sorry. Actually, I think I never promoted this site. Maybe I should.

I only worked (and work) with revenue share these days.

The site has about 5k visits / day, but the number of clicks-visits to the programs is lower and it varies from day to day, from site to site.

In addition, YEAH, I'm concerned about fraud, but since I'm not a clairvoyant I guess I will have to trust, and believe that the owners are honest.

The only way to get rid of this kind of fraud is to have my own sites.

[mopek1]

What were numbers 2,3 and 4 ?

[vending_machine]

With only 5k visits/day you can run this test 5 times and probably get 5 different results.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Crazy Enough

The site I used to test has traffic from several sources, but most of it comes from Google.

The test was made on the same site, ~15 days through pop under and ~15 days through banners.

I don't believe I'm comparing oranges to apples. Live cams is live cams, maybe the way to sign up or to pay is different, but this is a reason for me to test them all, so I can discover which one works better.

Conversion for me is the proportion of levels: Visits on my site to clicks to the affiliate site, visits coming from those clicks on my site to free member sign up, and finally free to paid members.

I don't know why but I forgot to test webcams.com! Sorry. Actually, I think I never promoted this site. Maybe I should.

I only worked (and work) with revenue share these days.

The site has about 5k visits / day, but the number of clicks-visits to the programs is lower and it varies from day to day, from site to site.

In addition, YEAH, I'm concerned about fraud, but since I'm not a clairvoyant I guess I will have to trust, and believe that the owners are honest.

The only way to get rid of this kind of fraud is to have my own sites.

Firstly, the "they all shave" is a baseless and unproven accusation that is completely without any merit other than the "feelings" of the posters sharing that sentiment, so you should take those comments with a grain of salt. Until someone proves that they shave then that is all just the vitriol of people that believe they should be making more but are not.

I am not a cam company and have no direct stake in any of them other than the traffic we send. We test them all, except Chaturbate but we will test them too. We do the best with streamrate, but VS is a close second.

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Firstly, the "they all shave" is a baseless and unproven accusation that is completely without any merit other than the "feelings" of the posters sharing that sentiment.

I run a program and it seems to me that I don't shave, actually I should know it, right? However, I like conspiracy theories: could be gremlins or aliens, in the nights, are loggin-in our system to shave, and I don't noticed. So honestly I can say that as long as I know, I don't shave, but who knows.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

I run a program and it seems to me that I don't shave, actually I should know it, right? However, I like conspiracy theories: could be gremlins or aliens, in the nights, are loggin-in our system to shave, and I don't noticed. So honestly I can say that as long as I know, I don't shave, but who knows.

With your join date you ought to know why many assume everyone shaves by default. Because people have been caught. Hell, MPA2 even had a shave module and from what I understand it was one of the first things sponsors saw when logging in. The thing about that is how many honest sponsors came to the boards to tell affiliates about the shave module? Show of hands please? Any links to posts? Now you see why many affiliates assume the worst. But if that's not enough there are programmers here in the industry who have admitted that one of the most popular things they are asked for is a way to shave when building custom software.

The truth is not everyone shaves. But it can be tough to find honest sponsors when it's so easy to steal and not get caught. And it can change. I'm sure I'm not the only affiliate who has done great with a sponsor and then suddenly with no warning their conversions went to shit as if someone flipped a switch. And they ALL say they don't shave. Even the ones who were caught. You can find someone from Mansion productions even joking about charging for a shave module right before it came out on the boards many years ago. PIBcash? I think I recall one of the reps writing "We DON'T shave. NEVER." with emphasis. Of course.....

[signupdamnit]

Because I mentioned them I suppose I should share their side of the story.

Now this is getting ridiculous. I have stood on the side line here while NATS have done their aggressive marketing and even called up our customers to talk shit about us and tried to take them away from us. I have also stood on the side line when I have watched the NATS people go on the boards to trash my company just to try to get a few webmasters against us and to possible win a few more clients.



But its time to start the fight back. I will not just sit around any longer and take this.



Personally I don't mind having competitors. The internet is more then big enough for us all. The better the competition is the better it is for the clients. The quality of the products get better and we all work our out hardest to try to be the best. But a business model where you talk shit about the other companies is not something that I personally feel is any good! If you guys want to work with a company that are willing to walk over dead bodies just to win a client then that is your business.



When it comes to the opportunity to shave or not - Why in gods name blame the company that wrote that in to the script. It is YOU the webmasters that have created the need for having such a thing! You are the ones that are always sending your traffic to the company that offers the most per signups. And the only way to pay anyone $100 per signups is to be able to adjust the stats.

You can shave with what ever program you use. No matter what anyone else tell you it is very easy to adjust the stats as long as you sit on the database of the program your self. Try rather to choose witch companies you do business with.



Now we have learned our lesson and have corrected our self.



If you do not choose the company that makes you the most money then that is your issue. Luckily there are a lot of smart webmasters out there so this isn't really a big issue for the mpa2/3 owners.

It?s like not buying a Toyota because people have crashed with it and died. Or it can break the speed limits. It is really not the company who built the cars fault now is it?



The funny part here is that some of the worse webmasters in this business, who do everything in their power to make the most money they can use every trick in the book to cheat the program owners are the once that are shouting the loudest here.




Now we have been in this business the longest. We have constantly worked with our customers to improve the program and added features that help the webmasters promoting them. The program works great but of course not totally free for little issues. THAT is something that is common for all scripts. Especially scripts that are depending on third-party suppliers.

And yes, we to have had people choosing MPA3 over Nats. We to hear that there are and have been issues with nats. But do we choose to go on the board and post about it OR call their customers and tell them to come to us instead and bad talk them? NO!



We have been quiet for the last six months now simply because we have had more then enough to do with all the upgrades from mpa2 to mpa3 and the new installs. And we also wanted the new mpa3 program to be the best that it could be. But now those times are over, now we will get back to business again and start our little marketing campaign.



Yes we did a bad choice when we gave after for adding the module and for that we are sorry, but we have learned and we have paid our price.



Now must the one who have never done anything wrong please throw the first stone.

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=6014052&postcount=94

Dont tell me that you think that we where that came up with this idea first ? If you do then you need to wake up.

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=6014294&postcount=96

[VS_Jeff]

I don't believe it... Flirt4Free should be number 1! I'd like to see more stats and what creatives you used.

[lazycash]

Originally Posted by vending_machine

With only 5k visits/day you can run this test 5 times and probably get 5 different results.

If his site only has 5k/day, then he's probably sending less than 100 uniques/day to the cam sponsors via banner/popunder. Also, because he's only sending to revshare, that small of a sample over only 30 days is really a meaningless test. He could have a revshare sale kick in next month from a free join 2 months ago with just one consistent spender that would vault another of the programs to first.

[ErectMedia]

I used to do well with Cams.com, then switched everything to Streamate and still do well.

Originally Posted by Failed

This may be a stupid set of questions, but I've never seen them asked or answered. Is shaving an illegal business practice? Are there penalties or other actions governments can pursue against a company that shaves money from an affiliate? Are there grounds for a lawsuit from affiliates against companies that shave?

Here is what you do. Make a public offer of a bag of cash in a dark alley to anyone that works at a cam company that can film them shaving at least 5 affiliates so you can form a class action. Sit tight and wait for reps to get laid off from cam companies, those would be the shavers.

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

With your join date you ought to know why many assume everyone shaves by default. Because people have been caught.
...
You can find someone from Mansion productions even joking about charging for a shave module right before it came out on the boards many years ago.

Yes I joined gfy in 2003 and I never been caught shaving
As well as others who are there from 10+ years and never been caught shaving.
About shave module: yes developers are used to such requests. When I hired developers for a cam site, I was asked: "what about shaving"... I even took some seconds to figure out what they meant. When I said - no shaving, pass the stats "as is"... the dev was sort of shocked, eventually it was the first time

[Crazy Enough]

What about half shaved?



If we start to think serious about fraud, every kind of affiliate program, adult or mainstream, could do evil things to fuck with their affiliates like make the system identify only one sale in three or something like that. That's a reasonable justification of those hard to believe numbers like 1:65419816516847.

If there's no proof, there's no fraud. Choose carefully and good luck.

[Black All Through]

snrcash converts well and crakcash have a few cam sites that bring in a good coin